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On 13/08/2022 at 17:39, Pezo said:

I am giving him until Christmas to get us to somewhere above 18th but in reality (the financial reality) I don't think we should get rid of him until the end of this season. That being said the funds available in next summer's transfer window will be slightly looser - would be interesting to see what he could do with a better budget rather than trying to cost manage our unwinding of the shit that MA left us in.

For me the big question is " do the players really believe in him"?

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4 hours ago, Yoyo2345 said:

This post is absolute bolloxio.....I want this poster to tell me who the average signings were LJ purchased....not loaned, purchased.....just a reminder it was Ashton who did the negotiating of transfers not LJ

 

Here’s every single Mark Ashton negotiated transfer (perm and loan)…none of them anything to do with LJ (apart from the ones in 20/21 - Holden)….hmmmm!

image.thumb.png.fa654b76a05089d59979a4ad56ccfe39.png
 

Loans come at a cost too, don’t forget.

Fees need a recent update, but they are all in a very good ball-park (I’ve since updated from an impeccable source).

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1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

That is probably the best way to put it. Pearson probably not getting the most from the side. However, sacking him constrains us more and whoever comes in is a year away(probably more?) from a clean slate. I have said before, his contract aligns with our toughest season. Next season will be much harder to survive imo. Can we retain any of the ooc(kalas, bentley, dasilva) Scott and Semenyo even more likely to be gone by this time next tear. Still a big loss on the 3 year ffp cycle(correct?) Weimann a year older which may or may not mean anything in his last year. A big reason why I am disappointed with the start this season. 

Think I half give my opinion on your post above. I will say Saturday only 1 shot on target. 9 the previous 2. So roughly 3 per game in the league. It is better than Holden attacking wise but Semenyo being fit second half of last season papered over a lot of cracks. Defensively I am less convinced it is definitely better. I remember a decent start with Holden then injuries killing the campaign

Joe, re bold bit…if none of those are here, the OOC ones will free up significant budget (no wages / no amortisation) which is currently disproportionate to the budget of the rest of the squad, e.g. Kalas costs us circa £3.5m p.a….ouch!

If Semenyo or Scott go, then we can reap the fees they bring in. Obviously need good recruitment to match.

We need to get through the cycle that ends this season…then things get better.  As above, recruitment will be so important.  It appears Cisse is bringing pro-knowledge into the office.

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26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Here’s every single Mark Ashton negotiated transfer (perm and loan)…none of them anything to do with LJ (apart from the ones in 20/21 - Holden)….hmmmm!

image.thumb.png.fa654b76a05089d59979a4ad56ccfe39.png
 

Loans come at a cost too, don’t forget.

Fees need a recent update, but they are all in a very good ball-park (I’ve since updated from an impeccable source).

Such a farce the amount of money spent and wasted. 

We had a refurbed stadium, newly promoted in 15/16, had momentum. A great cup run and where did we end up? Back where we always do in this League, struggling and behind the rest. We backed the wrong horses (LJ and MA). 

Like I have said, Pearson could get more from this side, I question his selections and tactics, however sacking him right now just puts a plaster over a sinking ship in the long run and there is no doubt we'd go for the predictable and obvious cheap appointment.

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1 hour ago, Clutton Caveman said:

For me the big question is " do the players really believe in him"?

Is that a good question e.g. What do you mean by believe? To give you an example there is a massive spectrum of believe, do they believe he exists? Will the sacrifice there first born child to follow his teachings and methods?

What do you mean by "really", is there a suspicion of faking "belief" in him?

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22 hours ago, Robbored said:

Ian Gay is the most pessimistic City ‘fan’ that I’ve ever met and I’m convinced that he makes up loads of bullshit as you quite rightly say.

Must be an attempt to appear that he’s got special inside information that’s not accessible to anyone else - that of course strokes his already inflated ego.

What really irritates me with him is his constant knocking of Nige with ‘facts’ all of which have no reasoned context whatsoever.

He refuses to post on here because he reckons we have no idea about what’s really going on………:cool2: but the truth is it’s because his views and opinions would get ripped to shreds on here.

 I think he doesn’t post on here because some others, who also post their opinions, were perhaps rude and abusive. I appear to be about the only one who missed his contribution on OTIB and generally listen to the FBC podcast.  

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2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I do take very mild issue with one phrase in your post (highlighted above).  I maintain that the serious problems that Holden encountered and which did for him in the end were relatively short-lived, and critically came after the injury to Tommy Rowe.   That’s not to say that the underlying problems didn’t exist - of course they did - but I do think that Holden was making quite a reasonable shot at it but was totally undermined by the ridiculous injury situation.

IMHO the performance issues had been there for quite a while. Even as far back as LJ's last few months, I think the underlying numbers had us looking like a bottom 3 side. Bar the 4/5 game purple patch at the start of the 2020/21 season, I think it's reasonable to say we'd been playing at a near-relegation standard for almost 12 months prior to Pearson's appointment.

I agree that it got worse as the 2020/21 season went on though - the first few months under Holden weren't as bad as the last few. I also agree Holden was dealt a dreadful hand, but he was probably a bit out of his depth. That's not his fault of course - he was offered a job, accepted it, and did his best.

The point on injuries is an interesting one IMO. There's certainly an element of bad luck there, but I also feel we brought it on ourselves a bit. IIRC, we didn't conduct a normal pre-season as COVID had pushed the previous season back and shortened the summer break. By comparison, I believe Brentford did conduct a normal pre-season that year and suffered far fewer injuries than us as the season went on. Similarly, the injury to Mawson was damaging, but how unlucky was it? If you're taking Mawson on loan then you know you're accepting a high risk of injury. IMO the decisions of the manager/club over the summer of 2020 did contribute to our injury crisis, it wasn't all down to misfortune.

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The situation we are in, is not Pearson's fault. 

We've had years of bad decisions on the pitch, both in players brought in with no playing fit or plan of action, and also financially. Selling has been ok.

I have no expectations of promotion for this club...just mid table obscurity or avoiding relegation. That's how I see it. Regardless of who's manager.

I remember when we came up last time...I stated we needed to go up again within two seasons...or the chance would be gone. I feared we would become just like the majority in this league. Average. Just bang average for this league. 

It would take a miracle or all stars to align for us ever to go up. 

As a club of this stature...you just don't get the chance to develop as a team over a few seasons. Anyone that shines...gets sold on. It's a catch 22...one step forward, two steps back.

I find it the most frustrating part of following City.

The chances of any of our 'star' players, developing and staying together as a team...where they could become good enough to get promoted are nil imo. 

We can't buy our way...and if we go down the route of developing...if you become good...you get sold. 

So how is it ever going to work?

You need everyone in the squad having a star season. That opportunity will never arise. 

I look at the under 25s in this squad...if we could keep them all together for the next 3 seasons...keep developing them at a good rate of knots. Play a system to their strengths...then it could be plausible. 

But it won't happen ..for all the reasons mentioned.

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23 minutes ago, aa_bcfc said:

 I think he doesn’t post on here because some others, who also post their opinions, were perhaps rude and abusive. I appear to be about the only one who missed his contribution on OTIB and generally listen to the FBC podcast.  

He posts on ziderheads where’s there no swear filter so the reason he doesn’t post on here is not because of rude or abusive replies. In fact only one poster over there challenges him.

I firmly believe that he’d get torn to shreds again with his views on here as he did when he posted here as Bristol Boy - that’s why he left after he’d had an argument with a poster on here who has also left otib.

Its a pity as he can actually make some reasoned comments.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Here’s every single Mark Ashton negotiated transfer (perm and loan)…none of them anything to do with LJ (apart from the ones in 20/21 - Holden)….hmmmm!

image.thumb.png.fa654b76a05089d59979a4ad56ccfe39.png
 

Loans come at a cost too, don’t forget.

Fees need a recent update, but they are all in a very good ball-park (I’ve since updated from an impeccable source).

Brilliant report that! Unequivocal proof if you needed it.
This is why Bristol City is in such a mess in 2022. If anyone thinks sacking NP will improve things are deluded. Ashton and Johnson supported by an owner who took his eye of the ball.

This is why City have a difficult season ahead.

Edited by Tin Soldier
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28 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

IMHO the performance issues had been there for quite a while. Even as far back as LJ's last few months, I think the underlying numbers had us looking like a bottom 3 side. Bar the 4/5 game purple patch at the start of the 2020/21 season, I think it's reasonable to say we'd been playing at a near-relegation standard for almost 12 months prior to Pearson's appointment.

I agree that it got worse as the 2020/21 season went on though - the first few months under Holden weren't as bad as the last few. I also agree Holden was dealt a dreadful hand, but he was probably a bit out of his depth. That's not his fault of course - he was offered a job, accepted it, and did his best.

The point on injuries is an interesting one IMO. There's certainly an element of bad luck there, but I also feel we brought it on ourselves a bit. IIRC, we didn't conduct a normal pre-season as COVID had pushed the previous season back and shortened the summer break. By comparison, I believe Brentford did conduct a normal pre-season that year and suffered far fewer injuries than us as the season went on. Similarly, the injury to Mawson was damaging, but how unlucky was it? If you're taking Mawson on loan then you know you're accepting a high risk of injury. IMO the decisions of the manager/club over the summer of 2020 did contribute to our injury crisis, it wasn't all down to misfortune.

The six weeks recruitment process to appoint Holden didn't help. Six wasted weeks where a new manager could have been assessing and shaping not only the squad but his own backroom team as well. Instead we ended up with Ashton's chums, as coaches and Holden.

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2 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

For me the big question is " do the players really believe in him"?

There is no definite way to answer this, it is simply a matter of perception & as the views on this thread demonstrate, those who are anti Pearson (& there are a fair few, not just on that podcast) would clearly say not.

My observation is that having taken the opportunity to remove Bakinson & Palmer from the squad that he now has a small collection of players that, although limited in several cases, are completely buying into what he’s attempting to do.

Those players (Vyner is the obvious & most contentious one) will make mistakes but through poor decision making, rather than because they doubt the manager.

I also doubt anyone who has posted here is going to change their view, so like Saturday, every draw or defeat is going to see those who don’t rate him posting on here.

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3 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

All that will happen then is that the opposition will "set up" differently against us and exploit the weaknesses that come with 4-4-2 and posters on here and students of the game will suggest 3-5-2 as the way to overcome our difficulties. Probably. 

Problem appears to be too many Championship sides have a few too many better players than we have. Until Kalas and Semenyo return, we can hope.

i agree with you,everso slightly outclassed but enough for a few chins to drop causing defeats. a couple of wins for the first 11 boosting confidence would help at the moment

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1 hour ago, Supersonic Robin said:

The point on injuries is an interesting one IMO. There's certainly an element of bad luck there, but I also feel we brought it on ourselves a bit. IIRC, we didn't conduct a normal pre-season as COVID had pushed the previous season back and shortened the summer break. By comparison, I believe Brentford did conduct a normal pre-season that year and suffered far fewer injuries than us as the season went on.

That is true.  Brentford were happy to accept a slow start to the season rather than move away from a tried and trusted pre-season routine.  Paddy Orme admitted on a podcast that “we” City / Rolls got it wrong.

Edited by Davefevs
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Very good post by Dave- and never mind the fees for a mo, or even the wages- yes significant- but the churn is ridiculous. The churn of players is no way to build a side- and is costly financially too.

In respect of Cotts- yes we ultimately started the season with a weaker side than we came up with and that's fairly unforgivable BUT otoh, had he been more patient and accepted a year of perhaps transition and stability in 2015/16, then he and not LJ would probably have reaped the rewards of the higher revenue streams that were coming in 2016/17 and the greater flexibility FFP wise. He made mistakes too.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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18 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In respect of Cotts- yes we ultimately started the season with a weaker side than we came up with and that's fairly unforgivable BUT otoh, had he been more patient and accepted a year of perhaps transition and stability in 2015/16, then he and not LJ would probably have reaped the rewards of the higher revenue streams that were coming in 2016/17 and the greater flexibility FFP wise. He made mistakes too.

I remember Cotts saying on RB before or after a friendly that had we signed everyone who wanted to join Bristol City, he could of fielded a team of new signings...or words to that effect.

Its the old cliche of " We only want to bring in players who will improve the side" which I find a bit farcical for a couple of reasons:

1. Players can improve in a different or better team/sytem.

2. Players can improve naturally as time goes on.

Cotts even went on to say a dozen games in that the boys are just tired. There was little or no rotation and Callum Robinson didn't get played effectively. 

What was unfortunate for Cotts was that he was banking on getting players like Maguire who as the story goes was a sealed deal until the board intervened. 

In my opinniom we need a couple more bodies in and we may have to settle for them on paper not being better than what we already have due to financial constraints etc.

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25 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In respect of Cotts- yes we ultimately started the season with a weaker side than we came up with and that's fairly unforgivable BUT otoh, had he been more patient and accepted a year of perhaps transition and stability in 2015/16, then he and not LJ would probably have reaped the rewards of the higher revenue streams that were coming in 2016/17 and the greater flexibility FFP wise. He made mistakes too.

In theory his signings for 15/16 were actually decent - Kodjia and 3 loan signings of Fredericks, Robinson and Baker. Fredericks was actually a good signing and Robinson should have been given a chance here. Cotts couldn't adapt his 352 from League 1 into Championship and his refusal to change the formation was his undoing.

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1 minute ago, 2015 said:

In theory his signings for 15/16 were actually decent - Kodjia and 3 loan signings of Fredericks, Robinson and Baker. Fredericks was actually a good signing and Robinson should have been given a chance here. Cotts couldn't adapt his 352 from League 1 into Championship and his refusal to change the formation was his undoing.

That's fair- perhaps I should've worded it a bit differently, a switch in formation to accommodate- a more pragmatic shape in that year 1. He couldn't or wouldn't change his shape but had we got Maguire and one of Gray/Gayle perhaps he wouldn't have needed to. Fredericks was a strange one, signed then gone within a few weeks yet clearly a decent player!

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14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's fair- perhaps I should've worded it a bit differently, a switch in formation to accommodate- a more pragmatic shape in that year 1. He couldn't or wouldn't change his shape but had we got Maguire and one of Gray/Gayle perhaps he wouldn't have needed to. Fredericks was a strange one, signed then gone within a few weeks yet clearly a decent player!

Yep should have been more pragmatic, like Preston were when they got promoted at the same time us as and I guess financially are in a much better position than we are currently because they didn't spend willy nilly for years after and were solid

All the players Cotts signed in Summer of 2015 were decent, he should have just changed our shape and protected our obvious weak back line.

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2 hours ago, Supersonic Robin said:

IMHO the performance issues had been there for quite a while. Even as far back as LJ's last few months, I think the underlying numbers had us looking like a bottom 3 side. Bar the 4/5 game purple patch at the start of the 2020/21 season, I think it's reasonable to say we'd been playing at a near-relegation standard for almost 12 months prior to Pearson's appointment.

I agree that it got worse as the 2020/21 season went on though - the first few months under Holden weren't as bad as the last few. I also agree Holden was dealt a dreadful hand, but he was probably a bit out of his depth. That's not his fault of course - he was offered a job, accepted it, and did his best.

The point on injuries is an interesting one IMO. There's certainly an element of bad luck there, but I also feel we brought it on ourselves a bit. IIRC, we didn't conduct a normal pre-season as COVID had pushed the previous season back and shortened the summer break. By comparison, I believe Brentford did conduct a normal pre-season that year and suffered far fewer injuries than us as the season went on. Similarly, the injury to Mawson was damaging, but how unlucky was it? If you're taking Mawson on loan then you know you're accepting a high risk of injury. IMO the decisions of the manager/club over the summer of 2020 did contribute to our injury crisis, it wasn't all down to misfortune.

To be fair, performance issues go back way way in time - all the way back to 1894...if we look at the all time English league table, we're 21st (most of our time is in the third and fourth tier). If we look at the all time top 2 divisions table we're 47th. You could argue that we're actually punching way above our weight from a historical perspective. And for reference my best days watching City have always been in the third tier, when we've been competitive and pushing for the top 2. 

There are pros and cons to Pearson. I think there's a level of tactical belligerence. Perhaps because he knows he doesn't have players available who can do what he wants week in and out. Or perhaps he's just a stubborn old git. Or maybe he knows more than we do about what players are capable of in what positions. 

One thing I do know, is that we quite literally have no idea of the sh1tshow that he inherited behind the scenes. By my reckoning we still don't have a scouting department. We have no money for transfers. And as other posters have said, a few players make up 70% of the wage bill.

I also know that the culture of the club needs serious surgery. This can't happen over night. My firm belief, is that we've had 35 years of accepting mediocrity. You'll never win anything with a culture like that. And that my friends, coupled with the lord of mediocrity right at the very top of the club, is why we're a below average championship club.

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1 hour ago, DaveInSA said:

My firm belief, is that we've had 35 years of accepting mediocrity. You'll never win anything with a culture like that. And that my friends, coupled with the lord of mediocrity right at the very top of the club, is why we're a below average championship club.

Spot on. It's why it's been at worst frustrating and at best tedious to attend matches at the Gate for the past few years, and why we'll more likely be a League One club in the next few seasons than challenge for the Prem.

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6 hours ago, spudski said:

The situation we are in, is not Pearson's fault. 

We've had years of bad decisions on the pitch, both in players brought in with no playing fit or plan of action, and also financially. Selling has been ok.

I have no expectations of promotion for this club...just mid table obscurity or avoiding relegation. That's how I see it. Regardless of who's manager.

I remember when we came up last time...I stated we needed to go up again within two seasons...or the chance would be gone. I feared we would become just like the majority in this league. Average. Just bang average for this league. 

It would take a miracle or all stars to align for us ever to go up. 

As a club of this stature...you just don't get the chance to develop as a team over a few seasons. Anyone that shines...gets sold on. It's a catch 22...one step forward, two steps back.

I find it the most frustrating part of following City.

The chances of any of our 'star' players, developing and staying together as a team...where they could become good enough to get promoted are nil imo. 

We can't buy our way...and if we go down the route of developing...if you become good...you get sold. 

So how is it ever going to work?

You need everyone in the squad having a star season. That opportunity will never arise. 

I look at the under 25s in this squad...if we could keep them all together for the next 3 seasons...keep developing them at a good rate of knots. Play a system to their strengths...then it could be plausible. 

But it won't happen ..for all the reasons mentioned.

Think there is a way.

Build a TEAM, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. 

Adopt a playing SYSTEM that is difficult to counter.

Be the FITTEST team in the league.

SMART in game management on/off the field. 

Ensure players know their ROLES.

Create playing PARTNERSHIPS.

We have consistent failed - since Cotts - to deliver any of the above.

I was confident that Pearson understood what was required to create a successful team with limited resources. 

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1 hour ago, RedRock said:

Think there is a way.

Build a TEAM, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. 

Adopt a playing SYSTEM that is difficult to counter.

Be the FITTEST team in the league.

SMART in game management on/off the field. 

Ensure players know their ROLES.

Create playing PARTNERSHIPS.

We have consistent failed - since Cotts - to deliver any of the above.

I was confident that Pearson understood what was required to create a successful team with limited resources. 

With respect... easier said than done. Even teams with resources and good management can fail. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, RedRock said:

Think there is a way.

Build a TEAM, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. 

Adopt a playing SYSTEM that is difficult to counter.

Be the FITTEST team in the league.

SMART in game management on/off the field. 

Ensure players know their ROLES.

Very nice on a presentation. Go and execute all of that on a tight budget with players that don’t really want to be at the club. What you have described is reaching peak Football Manager - not reality 

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9 hours ago, spudski said:

The situation we are in, is not Pearson's fault. 

We've had years of bad decisions on the pitch, both in players brought in with no playing fit or plan of action, and also financially. Selling has been ok.

I have no expectations of promotion for this club...just mid table obscurity or avoiding relegation. That's how I see it. Regardless of who's manager.

I remember when we came up last time...I stated we needed to go up again within two seasons...or the chance would be gone. I feared we would become just like the majority in this league. Average. Just bang average for this league. 

It would take a miracle or all stars to align for us ever to go up. 

As a club of this stature...you just don't get the chance to develop as a team over a few seasons. Anyone that shines...gets sold on. It's a catch 22...one step forward, two steps back.

I find it the most frustrating part of following City.

The chances of any of our 'star' players, developing and staying together as a team...where they could become good enough to get promoted are nil imo. 

We can't buy our way...and if we go down the route of developing...if you become good...you get sold. 

So how is it ever going to work?

You need everyone in the squad having a star season. That opportunity will never arise. 

I look at the under 25s in this squad...if we could keep them all together for the next 3 seasons...keep developing them at a good rate of knots. Play a system to their strengths...then it could be plausible. 

But it won't happen ..for all the reasons mentioned.

How does any team in this league get promoted?  There must be something to do right as 3 teams get it right each season?

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5 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Very nice on a presentation. Go and execute all of that on a tight budget with players that don’t really want to be at the club. What you have described is reaching peak Football Manager - not reality 

Fine.

As they say in peak business management ‘fail to plan, plan to fail’.

You have a plan, you work towards these goals, clearly they aren’t instantly achievable.

It’s obvious with FFP that we ain’t going to spend our way out of this division by out -competing parachute payment Clubs.  I assume this was the LJ/MA plan… which ended as a random/chaos type approach with player dealings focusing almost entirely on to potential £profit, with little/no apparent reference to building a team or partnerships.

I’m hoping that Pearson has a plan. A better plan than LJ/MAs and ‘peak football manager’ then. I also hope that he hasn’t conceded defeat to be a forever Championship/League 1 side. 
 

 

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11 minutes ago, RedRock said:

I’m hoping that Pearson has a plan. A better plan than LJ/MAs and ‘peak football manager’ then. I also hope that he hasn’t conceded defeat to be a forever Championship/League 1 side. 

There most definitely is a plan…but execution of that is the hardest bit isn’t it?

I really hope we can get through the end if the window unscathed / in tact.

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9 hours ago, Chivs said:

How does any team in this league get promoted?  There must be something to do right as 3 teams get it right each season?

I don’t know if you’ve noticed but with very few exceptions they tend to be the ones with the enormous advantage of parachute payments.

Norwich, Watford, Bournemouth, Fulham, WBA, who go up & seemingly then back down with regularity.

There are exceptions, Brentford being the obvious one, Forest too last year, but not many & they approached it completely differently from each other, so people draw the conclusion that they want from that, but there is no obvious standard model that works.

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