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15 minutes ago, Colombo Robin said:

Not playing either Wilson and Tanner makes me think even NP himself isn't entirely clear on the plan 

Wilson's getting used to the Championship level (and may still be getting over injury) and Tanner was bought as one for the future, and is also coming back from long-term injury.

Plus, Sykes has done really well at RWB.

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16 minutes ago, Colombo Robin said:

Not playing either Wilson and Tanner makes me think even NP himself isn't entirely clear on the plan 

Or he rewarded a player who did well in pre season & was our best player at Wigan, plus Wilson picked up a knock which meant he wasn’t 100% for the beginning of it?

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9 hours ago, Chivs said:

How does any team in this league get promoted?  There must be something to do right as 3 teams get it right each season?

Money, plan of action, good manager/coach, team spirit, no players or staff causing disruption, players feeling wanted, appreciated and trusted and very good recruitment.  Recruiting players that fit a system. Having players that believe in the system. Having players lined up or in mind to replace any sold. Very few injuries. A lot of luck. However...the harder you work, the ' luckier' you get.

Hence why so many with parachute payments do well. But obviously not every team.

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13 hours ago, RedRock said:

Think there is a way.

Build a TEAM, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. 

Adopt a playing SYSTEM that is difficult to counter.

Be the FITTEST team in the league.

SMART in game management on/off the field. 

Ensure players know their ROLES.

Create playing PARTNERSHIPS.

We have consistent failed - since Cotts - to deliver any of the above.

I was confident that Pearson understood what was required to create a successful team with limited resources. 

I don’t think fitness is the issue. You can have the fittest collection of players in the league but if they lack the quality to retain possession their efforts in trying to win the ball back will tire them which also has the effect of producing niggling injuries. We need better quality and then fitness is not an issue.

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

Money, plan of action, good manager/coach, team spirit, no players or staff causing disruption, players feeling wanted, appreciated and trusted and very good recruitment.  Recruiting players that fit a system. Having players that believe in the system. Having players lined up or in mind to replace any sold. Very few injuries. A lot of luck. However...the harder you work, the ' luckier' you get.

Hence why so many with parachute payments do well. But obviously not every team.

Sure some of the above is part of it, but with PP clubs, its mainly they have and can afford better players

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7 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Sure some of the above is part of it, but with PP clubs, its mainly they have and can afford better players

True...as I said in my last sentence. 

However...you still need all the other things ive stated for it to work.

You've only got to look at teams who struggle or get relegated to league 1, even with parachute payments, to see just having money doesn't buy you success.

Being able to buy quality players who aren't prone to individual errors on a regular basis, with all I've stated...goes a long way to success.

We don't have that benefit. 

How many times over the seasons, have we conceded goals due to individual rather than collective error!!!

Going slightly off topic...but as a collective, not individual, regardless of manager and playing staff...there has been one theme that I can't get my head around. The fact that we often sit back and let teams come at us...rather than being on the front foot and breaking up that situation. We just let it happen and get deeper and deeper.

And it's happened for many seasons, under different staff etc.

It really is a conundrum?

Is it a mindset within the Club? Which doesn't make sense...as the Club is defined by the people in it.

Is it a reflection of what the players feel coming from the fans? Maybe...

In all my years...a nervousness rather than positive vibe is often felt in the presence of our support. 

We are going to concede or lose is often felt rather than we are going to win or dominate.

A passing thought...

 

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7 minutes ago, spudski said:

True...as I said in my last sentence. 

However...you still need all the other things ive stated for it to work.

You've only got to look at teams who struggle or get relegated to league 1, even with parachute payments, to see just having money doesn't buy you success.

Being able to buy quality players who aren't prone to individual errors on a regular basis, with all I've stated...goes a long way to success.

We don't have that benefit. 

How many times over the seasons, have we conceded goals due to individual rather than collective error!!!

Going slightly off topic...but as a collective, not individual, regardless of manager and playing staff...there has been one theme that I can't get my head around. The fact that we often sit back and let teams come at us...rather than being on the front foot and breaking up that situation. We just let it happen and get deeper and deeper.

And it's happened for many seasons, under different staff etc.

It really is a conundrum?

Is it a mindset within the Club? Which doesn't make sense...as the Club is defined by the people in it.

Is it a reflection of what the players feel coming from the fans? Maybe...

In all my years...a nervousness rather than positive vibe is often felt in the presence of our support. 

We are going to concede or lose is often felt rather than we are going to win or dominate.

A passing thought...

 

I don't think we really comprehend the phycology of players and how the nervousness of a crowd can undermine them and also when you make a mistake a few times, you start to worry about it and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy

Bit like when I play golf, stood over a shot over the lake and your mind says don't put it in the lake, or the last 3 times you have played a hold you have put it our of bounds and your mind says don't do it again, well sure enough you get edgy on the shot and straight in teh lake or out of bounds the balls goes.

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9 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

I don't think we really comprehend the phycology of players and how the nervousness of a crowd can undermine them and also when you make a mistake a few times, you start to worry about it and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy

Bit like when I play golf, stood over a shot over the lake and your mind says don't put it in the lake, or the last 3 times you have played a hold you have put it our of bounds and your mind says don't do it again, well sure enough you get edgy on the shot and straight in teh lake or out of bounds the balls goes.

I totally agree with you. 

It's really hard to comprehend how you can get used to playing to your full potential without feeling extremely nervous in front of thousands of people. All judging your moves, mistakes...being shouted at. Bad enough on the training ground in front of your peers and manager.

It must be so much easier with hours under your belt so to speak, and the crowd supporting you, rather than having a go at you if you make an error. 

Like you...I can relate to the golf scenario. Even having a small crowd around the first tee, your name announced...it goes silent...all eyes on you...all you can hear is your racing heart and pulse, and limbs don't want to move normally. A horrible feeling. It must be the same for footballers.

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13 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Confidence is vital , as we know. or all the soundbites, any club in any league wants to on a winning run. When you have the stadium with you , like Anfield last night with 10 men, or even when GJ had Basso performing miracles, the whole ground can visibly lift a side. It is trying to get that traction, and requires a few players to be brave. It is a word you hear a lot in the behind the scenes team talks, "be brave" . Nige was asking this of JD last season, saying he knows he is a far better player than he is showing. We have Andi W who now has the confidence he is going to score every game, or Antoine at the end of last year knowing he could hustle any defence into submission. But we need more than just one or two, and I guess where Nige calls out the collective, quite often is exactly that. They need to drag themselves through these moments. Of course we may just be good enough. but there are 14/16 teams in the Championship that have very little between them.

I guess in terms of how we can make a promotion push, well it seems the youth development route is a great one (even if we lose a start player), signing players with something to prove another (GJ and SC did this well) and finally, when we have space in the budget, you need a couple of good loans, because you simply cannot afford to buy that quality as a non PP club. But it takes a few years to get that in place. Next summer we will finally have the financial flexibility to approach things differently, even if I expect a player sale these days . If that allows us to loan or buy the evidently missing parts, that can make a difference between top/middle/bottom. Though IMHO, Antoine is a game changer at this level, not very often we had a player in our side that is unplayable on his day. 

Main issue is PP though, let's hope some change is made there, as it is a total nonsense in a competition sense. 

Yes...I agree with your points.

This is why at our level, correct recruitment is paramount. Not just in ability, but confidence in one's ability. Add that to good coaching...and a collective confidence and belief builds. If that can be transferred as well to the stands, then even better.

It helps if the fan base also has a full understanding of the situation a club, it's manager and players are in.

I feel many try to be informed, but there are just as many that literally have no idea, want to know, or even understand.

The amount of times I've heard ' why doesn't SL just buy some decent players with all the money he has'...is just ridiculous. They have no idea of the constraints, FFP etc. And I've found these folk are often at games being the most negatively vocal...which then escalates. 

It's a catch 22...

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1 hour ago, Son of Fred said:

Smart recruitment..

The way we spend available funds post sell of Semenyo/Scott will be pivotal.

During SLs chat with GT prior to the Sunderland game, Geoff was asking him about interest in / possible sales of Scott & Semenyo

SL said that if they / either ended up departing we could strengthen the squad with the funds

Of course that’s correct , but he explained

Like we did when Adam Webster left


Hmmmmm, he either has a very short memory or is completely deluded

 

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

True...as I said in my last sentence. 

However...you still need all the other things ive stated for it to work.

You've only got to look at teams who struggle or get relegated to league 1, even with parachute payments, to see just having money doesn't buy you success.

Being able to buy quality players who aren't prone to individual errors on a regular basis, with all I've stated...goes a long way to success.

We don't have that benefit. 

How many times over the seasons, have we conceded goals due to individual rather than collective error!!!

Going slightly off topic...but as a collective, not individual, regardless of manager and playing staff...there has been one theme that I can't get my head around. The fact that we often sit back and let teams come at us...rather than being on the front foot and breaking up that situation. We just let it happen and get deeper and deeper.

And it's happened for many seasons, under different staff etc.

It really is a conundrum?

Is it a mindset within the Club? Which doesn't make sense...as the Club is defined by the people in it.

Is it a reflection of what the players feel coming from the fans? Maybe...

In all my years...a nervousness rather than positive vibe is often felt in the presence of our support. 

We are going to concede or lose is often felt rather than we are going to win or dominate.

A passing thought...

 

(In Bold) Deserves its own thread.

In the final third of games, especially at home, if our nervousness was converted in to positive vocal support we’d be the loudest fans in the country.

I feel there’s a general mindset in the stands, quite possibly and understandably driven by years/decades of failure where fans are waiting for us to concede, and it must have an effect. 

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

Going slightly off topic...but as a collective, not individual, regardless of manager and playing staff...there has been one theme that I can't get my head around. The fact that we often sit back and let teams come at us...rather than being on the front foot and breaking up that situation. We just let it happen and get deeper and deeper.

Teamwork, anticipation, concentration, etc. Since being back in the champ, apart from a 3 month period under LJ, we’ve rarely looked like a team. That outfield 10 of Wright, Flint, Baker, Magnússon, Brownhill, Smith, Pack, Paterson and Reid knew it’s own strengths and weaknesses and worked tirelessly for each other….but also works efficiently for each other.

Most of the rest of the time we’ve looked like a bunch of individuals in the main.

Why LJ couldn’t take that team system as the blueprint god only knows.

But I don’t want this to be another LJ thread.

What we need in 2022 onwards is more power and / or pace to compliment the technical players.  When we’ve been more compact back to front this season, we’ve played sone good stuff. When we’ve done the same out of possession we’ve got the ball back quickly.

We need to do more of that. Players need to have self accountability and also be able to tell their teammates when they aren’t doing it. Rarely see an on-pitch finger pointing these days. 

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9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Teamwork, anticipation, concentration, etc. Since being back in the champ, apart from a 3 month period under LJ, we’ve rarely looked like a team. That outfield 10 of Wright, Flint, Baker, Magnússon, Brownhill, Smith, Pack, Paterson and Reid knew it’s own strengths and weaknesses and worked tirelessly for each other….but also works efficiently for each other.

Most of the rest of the time we’ve looked like a bunch of individuals in the main.

Why LJ couldn’t take that team system as the blueprint god only knows.

But I don’t want this to be another LJ thread.

What we need in 2022 onwards is more power and / or pace to compliment the technical players.  When we’ve been more compact back to front this season, we’ve played sone good stuff. When we’ve done the same out of possession we’ve got the ball back quickly.

We need to do more of that. Players need to have self accountability and also be able to tell their teammates when they aren’t doing it. Rarely see an on-pitch finger pointing these days. 

Whilst I agree Dave...we did this even before the era you mentioned. It's been something I've noticed on a regular basis. Push up, get out...would often be shouted from the stands. Players looking tentatively.

The best year of positivity I can remember from both team and support, was the first year up under GJ.

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13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Teamwork, anticipation, concentration, etc. Since being back in the champ, apart from a 3 month period under LJ, we’ve rarely looked like a team. That outfield 10 of Wright, Flint, Baker, Magnússon, Brownhill, Smith, Pack, Paterson and Reid knew it’s own strengths and weaknesses and worked tirelessly for each other….but also works efficiently for each other.

Most of the rest of the time we’ve looked like a bunch of individuals in the main.

Why LJ couldn’t take that team system as the blueprint god only knows.

But I don’t want this to be another LJ thread.

What we need in 2022 onwards is more power and / or pace to compliment the technical players.  When we’ve been more compact back to front this season, we’ve played sone good stuff. When we’ve done the same out of possession we’ve got the ball back quickly.

We need to do more of that. Players need to have self accountability and also be able to tell their teammates when they aren’t doing it. Rarely see an on-pitch finger pointing these days. 

My sense is there's more 'cohesion' around the team and squad just now, although maybe the actual players aren't as good as they used to be. An important note is that there's a lot of very good youngsters and home produced players now, which we simply didn't have before - Scott, Semenyo, Conway - and there's a clear path to the first team for our young players. 

We are also adapting to a new financial climate, both inside the club and globally in football.

It's a very challenging and dynamic time, and frankly any expectations other than staying in the Championship need to be put on hold. The contract situation for the remaining high earners (Wells, Bentley, Kalas) will be resolved one way or another by the end of the season. Then we go again. 

Look at how long it took other teams without Parachute money to rebuild - the Florists, for example, took years.

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13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

There most definitely is a plan…but execution of that is the hardest bit isn’t it?

I really hope we can get through the end if the window unscathed / in tact.

Yep. Implementation is key to success, but equally so is a sound plan. 

I’m still very much pro-Pearson. I get that the situation he came into on and off the field was a total mess. That’s why most of us have given him loads of time to sort things out and I will continue to support him even if we mess up tonight and vs Cardiff. 

There are limits to that support though… I’m not in the total blind faith camp. While I’m not expecting world- beating performances or anything like that, I am now looking for him and his own backroom to start delivering improved and consistent performances and results. I don’t think that’s unreasonable in the wider scheme of things. I don’t want to see the mentally and physically weak performances of past eras, a team that collapses every time some pressure is applied by the opposition. 

I think we have an ok squad of players sufficient to avoid getting involved in yet another relegation scrap. It’s for the management team now to ensure that through this squad of players we succeed in that mission. 
 

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53 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Yep. Implementation is key to success, but equally so is a sound plan. 

I’m still very much pro-Pearson. I get that the situation he came into on and off the field was a total mess. That’s why most of us have given him loads of time to sort things out and I will continue to support him even if we mess up tonight and vs Cardiff. 

There are limits to that support though… I’m not in the total blind faith camp. While I’m not expecting world- beating performances or anything like that, I am now looking for him and his own backroom to start delivering improved and consistent performances and results. I don’t think that’s unreasonable in the wider scheme of things. I don’t want to see the mentally and physically weak performances of past eras, a team that collapses every time some pressure is applied by the opposition. 

I think we have an ok squad of players sufficient to avoid getting involved in yet another relegation scrap. It’s for the management team now to ensure that through this squad of players we succeed in that mission. 
 

Totally fair.

Final para spot on. ??????

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5 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

During SLs chat with GT prior to the Sunderland game, Geoff was asking him about interest in / possible sales of Scott & Semenyo

SL said that if they / either ended up departing we could strengthen the squad with the funds

Of course that’s correct , but he explained

Like we did when Adam Webster left


Hmmmmm, he either has a very short memory or is completely deluded

 

Quite fair although I would say also that a different- be it more experienced, better or different tactically, better man manager may well have got more out of a number of them when the financial picture was still decent, than LJ or Holden did.

Some of course were ill-fitting or a total loss- but some I doubt we saw the best of.

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On 13/08/2022 at 17:13, Top Robin said:

I so want him to succeed because I know he has the pedigree and experience to make it happen for us.

But, I fear he may be one of those managers who has lost his 'mojo' and has peaked a few years back.

Arguably there may have been a slight improvement but it is so inconsistent and generally I don't feel he is moving us forward at the pace we need. 

Frankly, some of the performances under his tenure have been laughable.

I don't know who could replace him and it's not up to me suggest anyone but I don't think he is the one for us.

So a few days later and another game gone can you please share your thoughts now?

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Just when he pushes me out he pulls me back in. 
 

Seriously though, this is the kind of energetic performances I have been calling out for. Been asking for more pace and energy up top. He finally delivered today. 2 young but experienced centre mids who can get all around the pitch easily and can take pressure off by receiving the ball in tight areas. Our wingbacks were able to get further forward which allowed our wide cbs to get on the ball in their third causing overloads. 
 

It was a selection we haven’t seen from Pearson and it worked a treat. I’d like to see him keep faith in it on Sunday and even if it does not work as well as tonight, to do it again in the next league game. Add Semenyo into it hopefully and have a Martin and Wells/Conway sub ready for when needed. 

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3 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Pearson should take some credit for his conduct following the red card 

A few were losing it in the technical areas and he pulled Fleming and another of our staff back and got them away from any conflict whilst remaining completely calm 

Completely controlled his technical area

Yeah he didn't get drawn in at all. Immediately got into problem solving mode.

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