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Davefevs

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7 minutes ago, RedRock said:

My worry is someone comes in for Andi. Either that, or he gets injured or loses form.  Can see a Cardiff or Swansea bid incoming and, frankly, that could seal our fate.

That is where we are, dependent on one player for survival. 
 

A concern as I would have hoped by now we would have built something resembling a team. If we aren’t recruiting to a plan, just picking up ad hoc what are perceived to be cheap ‘bargains’ then we need to adapt/tweak our system(s) in a way that uses these players strengths. What seems to be happening is we are sticking to a pre-set system and hoping that the players can adapt to a different role. Not sure that approach is working. 

OK, give it more time as I respect Pearson as a manager (highly), but we’re some way behind where I thought we would be and don’t seem to be much nearer having a cohesive team or style of play than when he started. To be dependent on just one player to determine your season is one massive risk.

Tbf I do think if Conway can step up and convert a presentable chance that comes his way in a league game that will give him a massive boost and he can take some of the load off Weimann. What I will say about the kid is as disappointing as it is he’s missed two chances in three games that could see us five points better off he is getting in the positions to miss them.

I agree with anyone who says we’ve gotta stop talking what ifs and get out there and do it but the point is we could and should have got more out of all three games and aren’t as bad as some are making out and if we can add a couple of defensive bodies by the end of the month I think we’ll be alright this season.

Edited by Numero Uno
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3 hours ago, RedRock said:

My worry is someone comes in for Andi. Either that, or he gets injured or loses form.  Can see a Cardiff or Swansea bid incoming and, frankly, that could seal our fate.

That is where we are, dependent on one player for survival. 
 

A concern as I would have hoped by now we would have built something resembling a team. If we aren’t recruiting to a plan, just picking up ad hoc what are perceived to be cheap ‘bargains’ then we need to adapt/tweak our system(s) in a way that uses these players strengths. What seems to be happening is we are sticking to a pre-set system and hoping that the players can adapt to a different role. Not sure that approach is working. 

OK, give it more time as I respect Pearson as a manager (highly), but we’re some way behind where I thought we would be and don’t seem to be much nearer having a cohesive team or style of play than when he started. To be dependent on just one player to determine your season is one massive risk.

Respect him highly? yet you think we are some way behind where we should be and are no nearer any form of cohesive play or style than when he started, read back what you have just written does the saying blind faith spring to mind. 

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51 minutes ago, pillred said:

Respect him highly? yet you think we are some way behind where we should be and are no nearer any form of cohesive play or style than when he started, read back what you have just written does the saying blind faith spring to mind. 

Understand the point…and may be there is some ‘blind faith’ in my view of Pearson.

However, he needed to disassemble the squad and then rebuild with the added ‘bonus’ of massively cutting costs. ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’ springs to mind also. Sometimes the rebuild takes time and then things just ‘click’ overnight. 

We have form getting managers to do this. I’ve not quite hit the depths of despair that SoD took me too when we were in the bottom three of League 1….yet.  

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17 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@Marina's Rolls Royce

@BigAl&Toby

@firstdivision

Not aimed at you three, but just reading the latest quotes back to me, but it’s an interesting insight for me.  I read pretty much every OTIB thread and try to read every individual post, although sometimes I scroll quickly…and generally see tonnes of negative bollax written, baseless bollax written, etc, and people think it’s fine.  So I thought I’d start a thread with an element of positive bollax and see how it landed. One thing is for sure and I’m no Freud, is that It’s easy to write negative, baseless stuff.  It’s harder to write substantiated stuff whether it be positive or negative.  I love conversing with those that put a bit of effort in.

MRR - I don’t really care how my perceived pro-Pearson view works out.  It’s not really pro-Pearson, for me it’s the reality of a very difficult situation he’s taken over in….and I think he deserves to have the time to at least get a chance once the shit has been cleared up.  That may be next summer - contract talks with the usual suspects might define that timeline to be a bit quicker.  He might not get that time.  I think he is steadying the ship, and whoever replaces him, whenever that will be, will pick up a football club in a better position than it was in when he took over.  For me it is already in a much better state…but financially we have the “legacy” of SL / MA / LJ still lingering over us.

Next summer there won’t be any players that Nige hasn’t had a chance to move on or re-contract.  Not many managers get that full timeline of seeing all the players out they don’t want.  But he will also have lost players he probably would’ve liked to have kept around, plus he isn’t able to bring in much beyond free transfers, bar Naismith, not even free transfers proven at this level.  That’s a major drawback.  When LJ had to sell players he was able to replace.  Generate £23m transfer profit on Webster, Pack, Brownhill and Eisa, spent at least £25m in fees on 17 players….and a hefty wage bill increase that went with it.  Christ, £5.5m amortisation of this season’s amortisation is LJ / MA recruitment.

He deserves some slack…imho.

He far from perfect, but he’s sorting us out for a better future.  When the time comes to appoint a new manager, we might be seen as an attractive opportunity.

 

Agree with loads of this Fevs. ? 

And there are clearly the anti Pearson extremists on here.

But we also don't need a thou shalt not criticise Nige attitude from others.

He's got a hell of a job. But if he makes questionable decisions, we need to question it. That's what fans do.

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4 minutes ago, mozo said:

Agree with loads of this Fevs. ? 

And there are clearly the anti Pearson extremists on here.

But we also don't need a thou shalt not criticise Nige attitude from others.

He's got a hell of a job. But if he makes questionable decisions, we need to question it. That's what fans do.

What you describe requires reason and it’s lacking in the extremists as you call them. Dinosaur emojis and crap like that when we could and should have come away with more in all three games. Yes, question the decisions, you are right that’s what fans do. The problem is the complete lack of perspective and personal jibes from fans that can only see problems then causes the Nige can do no wrong posters to them pipe up and it’s the same Matchday thread every week.

My issue is we “seem” to be sleepwalking into a tougher season than it needs to be. Two players would sort us out imo.

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9 minutes ago, mozo said:

Agree with loads of this Fevs. ? 

And there are clearly the anti Pearson extremists on here.

But we also don't need a thou shalt not criticise Nige attitude from others.

He's got a hell of a job. But if he makes questionable decisions, we need to question it. That's what fans do.

I actually think it would help if the club actually came out and explained exactly the job Pearson has had to do and the constraints he’s had to work under since the mess Ashton created. Whilst some, and I’m not naive to the reasons why, have already made their minds up on Pearson i do think it would help some understand a little more that’s he’s been given a tough gig. 
 

Where i do feel frustration is that we do concede very very soft goals and that problem has not been addressed in his time here, I think it’s quite clear that 3 at the back with what we currently have is going to cause issues, and yes we have recruited to play that way but 2 of the players bought in were on the bench yesterday.

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14 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I actually think it would help if the club actually came out and explained exactly the job Pearson has had to do and the constraints he’s had to work under since the mess Ashton created. Whilst some, and I’m not naive to the reasons why, have already made their minds up on Pearson i do think it would help some understand a little more that’s he’s been given a tough gig. 
 

Where i do feel frustration is that we do concede very very soft goals and that problem has not been addressed in his time here, I think it’s quite clear that 3 at the back with what we currently have is going to cause issues, and yes we have recruited to play that way but 2 of the players bought in were on the bench yesterday.

I've thought this before too. It's a catch 22 maybe because the club would be accused of lacking ambition perhaps.

But yeah if we're dealing in reality, SL would say, 'look, the club lost its way as a Championship force and now we need to be patient and slowly rebuild. We're sticking with Nigel come what may because we appreciate he's got a hell of a task.'

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

Agree with loads of this Fevs. ? 

And there are clearly the anti Pearson extremists on here.

But we also don't need a thou shalt not criticise Nige attitude from others.

He's got a hell of a job. But if he makes questionable decisions, we need to question it. That's what fans do.

Absolutely. Critiquing although very similar in the spelling to criticism is very different, and can be positive and negative. I love a good ole debate with those happy to explain why their view might be different to mine. 

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

What you describe requires reason and it’s lacking in the extremists as you call them. Dinosaur emojis and crap like that when we could and should have come away with more in all three games. Yes, question the decisions, you are right that’s what fans do. The problem is the complete lack of perspective and personal jibes from fans that can only see problems then causes the Nige can do no wrong posters to them pipe up and it’s the same Matchday thread every week.

My issue is we “seem” to be sleepwalking into a tougher season than it needs to be. Two players would sort us out imo.

Ditto above too. 

1 hour ago, Rob k said:

I actually think it would help if the club actually came out and explained exactly the job Pearson has had to do and the constraints he’s had to work under since the mess Ashton created. Whilst some, and I’m not naive to the reasons why, have already made their minds up on Pearson i do think it would help some understand a little more that’s he’s been given a tough gig. 
 

Where i do feel frustration is that we do concede very very soft goals and that problem has not been addressed in his time here, I think it’s quite clear that 3 at the back with what we currently have is going to cause issues, and yes we have recruited to play that way but 2 of the players bought in were on the bench yesterday.

Not my place to respond, but there is good back and forth between club and a fans group currently on a topic not a million miles away from this. @ExiledAjaxmay be able to allude to more.

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14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not my place to respond, but there is good back and forth between club and a fans group currently on a topic not a million miles away from this. @ExiledAjaxmay be able to allude to more.

@Rob k (and @mozo) I think Dave is alluding to some chats that I and the SC&T have had with Gould regarding elements of the Fan Led Review.

Part of that is a request that the Club help explain the accounts and finances of the Club in an easy to understand format. What we're hoping we see is that when the accounts for 2021/22 are published in the autumn of this year they are accompanied by a plain English letter or article explaining them and their effect on the team. I'd like the club to take the time to produce a kind of annual mission statement in one easy to access, official place, so that fans can easily and quickly find it, and not need a degree in accounting to understand it!

The noise from Gould is positive on this, but there is some sensitivity because a) our accounts are going to again be in a worse state than the Ukrainian farming sector, b) we've got some FFP "diplomacy" to do with the EFL, and c) there's generally a desire to keep a few things secret. All fine by me really.

Please don't take any of this as a promise of anything. Whatever does come out might or might not help to do what you guys are asking, but either way the Club is moving towards a better attitude to financial transparency and fan engagement.

The work continues.

If you've any ideas on what precisely you might like explaining then feel free to message me privately and we can chat it through.

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15 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

@Rob k (and @mozo) I think Dave is alluding to some chats that I and the SC&T have had with Gould regarding elements of the Fan Led Review.

Part of that is a request that the Club help explain the accounts and finances of the Club in an easy to understand format. What we're hoping we see is that when the accounts for 2021/22 are published in the autumn of this year they are accompanied by a plain English letter or article explaining them and their effect on the team. I'd like the club to take the time to produce a kind of annual mission statement in one easy to access, official place, so that fans can easily and quickly find it, and not need a degree in accounting to understand it!

The noise from Gould is positive on this, but there is some sensitivity because a) our accounts are going to again be in a worse state than the Ukrainian farming sector, b) we've got some FFP "diplomacy" to do with the EFL, and c) there's generally a desire to keep a few things secret. All fine by me really.

Please don't take any of this as a promise of anything. Whatever does come out might or might not help to do what you guys are asking, but either way the Club is moving towards a better attitude to financial transparency and fan engagement.

The work continues.

If you've any ideas on what precisely you might like explaining then feel free to message me privately and we can chat it through.

That's really interesting, thanks for sharing. Sounds like you've made the right approach ? 

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22 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

@Rob k (and @mozo) I think Dave is alluding to some chats that I and the SC&T have had with Gould regarding elements of the Fan Led Review.

Part of that is a request that the Club help explain the accounts and finances of the Club in an easy to understand format. What we're hoping we see is that when the accounts for 2021/22 are published in the autumn of this year they are accompanied by a plain English letter or article explaining them and their effect on the team. I'd like the club to take the time to produce a kind of annual mission statement in one easy to access, official place, so that fans can easily and quickly find it, and not need a degree in accounting to understand it!

The noise from Gould is positive on this, but there is some sensitivity because a) our accounts are going to again be in a worse state than the Ukrainian farming sector, b) we've got some FFP "diplomacy" to do with the EFL, and c) there's generally a desire to keep a few things secret. All fine by me really.

Please don't take any of this as a promise of anything. Whatever does come out might or might not help to do what you guys are asking, but either way the Club is moving towards a better attitude to financial transparency and fan engagement.

The work continues.

If you've any ideas on what precisely you might like explaining then feel free to message me privately and we can chat it through.

Thanks for this - 
 

For me i would want a page on the job NP has had to do and what that has entailed. For example, I’d like to see in simple English, The wage bill was 30m per year on the playing staff and Nigel had to get that to 20m which he’s done. He had to do this to avoid the club being given A points deduction. This has meant the objective for 2 seasons was not to get relegated whilst the playing side of things is being sorted money wise. 
 

Edited by Rob k
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10 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Thanks for this - 
 

For me i would want a page on the job NP has had to do and what that has entailed. For example, I’d like to see in simple English, The wage bill was 30m per year on the playing staff and Nigel had to get that to 20m which he’s done. He had to do this to avoid the club being given A points deduction. This has meant the objective for 2 seasons was not to get relegated whilst the playing side of things is being sorted money wise. 
 

Would you want your job objectives widely known to everybody? Nope

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4 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Would you want your job objectives widely known to everybody? Nope

I'd prefer it if you didn't shoot down suggestions such as the one @Rob k posted. He's a fan and he's asking for engagement. Therefore if that is what he'd like to know, then that's a valid contribution to the discussion and to the project. If we're going to get the Club to improve on this front then as a fan collective we need to be positive and collaborative with each other.

Leave it to the Club to say no to something. If they want to say no then believe me they will.

I don't want to derail this thread any further, but if you'd like to contribute and you've got something you'd like explained by the Club regarding finances then please message me privately.

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29 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Would you want your job objectives widely known to everybody? Nope

I think footballs a little different to your normal 9-5 and why wouldn’t NP want people to know just how difficult the situation is. I dont think it’s a big thing for an explanation in regards to trimming the wage bill - at least it stops the rumours and gives exact figures. I still see it all the time, people have no idea what FFP means and how we’re affected by it 

 

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6 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Do you own this forum? No. Therefore your preference on the replies on this topic are just another opinion. Arrogant as ****

Thank you for your contribution. Is there anything else you'd like to add to the conversation about trying to get greater financial transparency from the Club?

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5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Thank you for your contribution. Is there anything else you'd like to add to the conversation about trying to get greater financial transparency from the Club?

I responded to a specific post about someone wanting to understand NP’s objectives - nothing else. Job objectives and goals are between the employer and the employee and not for the public domain.

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1 hour ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I responded to a specific post about someone wanting to understand NP’s objectives - nothing else. Job objectives and goals are between the employer and the employee and not for the public domain.

Published service goals and objectives are commonplace in the public sector.

May be it’s time for the ‘Gods gift to the Nation’ private sector to improve their own transparency standards? Maybe we start with our utterly useless, under-performing, pay-ourselves-what-we-want Water Companies. Football clubs could could then follow in the second tranche. 

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5 hours ago, RedRock said:

Understand the point…and may be there is some ‘blind faith’ in my view of Pearson.

However, he needed to disassemble the squad and then rebuild with the added ‘bonus’ of massively cutting costs. ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’ springs to mind also. Sometimes the rebuild takes time and then things just ‘click’ overnight. 

We have form getting managers to do this. I’ve not quite hit the depths of despair that SoD took me too when we were in the bottom three of League 1….yet.  

Fair enough I'm glad you could see where I was coming from, me I'm a bit underwhelmed but accept he didn't start with the best of hands in fact given the hand he was dealt it's probable Pep Guardliola whould have struggled, it does not stop me feeling with his experience the team should at least have some identity and at the moment we still seem to be repeating the mistakes of the past.

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Just now, pillred said:

Fair enough I'm glad you could see where I was coming from, me I'm a bit underwhelmed but accept he didn't start with the best of hands in fact given the hand he was dealt it's probable Pep Guardliola whould have struggled, it does not stop me feeling with his experience the team should at least have some identity and at the moment we still seem to be repeating the mistakes of the past.

Yes, I don’t disagree.

At present though, ‘I’m keeping the faith’ and believing he has the experience and capabilities to lead us from these troubled waters. I admit to occasional ‘wobbles’ though, but not to anywhere near the level of thinking we need a managerial change. 

Delivery time is approaching though. I know we’ve not been able to ‘player recruit’ our way out of the mess by marque signings. However, I think Pearson, now with his own coaching and back-up staff should be making a difference very soon to the  ingrained mental and physical weaknesses of the playing side of the Club that have held us back for years. 

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2 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Yes, I don’t disagree.

At present though, ‘I’m keeping the faith’ and believing he has the experience and capabilities to lead us from these troubled waters. I admit to occasional ‘wobbles’ though, but not to anywhere near the level of thinking we need a managerial change. 

Delivery time is approaching though. I know we’ve not been able to ‘player recruit’ our way out of the mess by marque signings. However, I think Pearson, now with his own coaching and back-up staff should be making a difference very soon to the  ingrained mental and physical weaknesses of the playing side of the Club that have held us back for years. 

Let's hope so as the patience of the faithfull probably you and definately me is being sorely tried, we may well have the best manager we have had for years at the worst time,  it's a shame he was not here instead of LJ when money appeared to be plentiful, we will never know.

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13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

back to Pearson:

How many people said Klose should play CB3 and Naismith LCB3 over the past few games…yet yesterday that’s exactly what happened, and we went from 1-0 up to drawing 1-1.  Correlation rather than causation, maybe….but we are a hypocritical bunch because we use correlation rather than causation to justify our negativity, that’s if we even bother to justify it.

No hands up, I was wrong from OTIB is there?

I’ve not double checked it but haven’t we quickly conceded a goal as soon as Klose has entered the field this season? I’m not sure what’s gone on there as he looked nice and reliable last year. Maybe he’s gone a year too far?

I'm conflicted by this whole thread. I’m no great fan of NP, I thought he’d be great, I’ve been underwhelmed. My view is also clouded by his attitude in press conferences, lack of humility oh and his inability to make changes to formation/substitutions (a Leicester supporting friend suggested substitutions were a problem). 
His job is, as with all managers, to manage the first XI to get results whilst having an eye on the future of the club. For NP the bigger part of his role is the future piece, having to deal with FFP and all the other squad issues he’s in inherited.  I am increasingly concerned that it’s become the whole reason for problems on the pitch rather than part of the problem. I guess I mean, poor substitutions and the like are nothing to do with the fact the club is in a financial mess and SL is still talking about selling up… with no sign it’ll happen - years after he first suggested it.  
 

Anyway, I said I was conflicted by this thread and despite all I’ve said above…. I agree wholeheartedly with your original post @Davefevs .  It’s a point, nowhere near as bad a performance as some are making out (I was there). Conway gave us something of what we miss without Semenyo. Sykes looks decent enough. Vyner is fine and has been all season (still should play in midfield!). Weimann was great again. Worryingly we have a central  midfield problem (still). 
Overall an ok performance, some positives, we’re 2 games unbeaten and off the mark. 
It’ll be panic stations if we lose the next two… but let’s see whether that happens or not. 

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2 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I responded to a specific post about someone wanting to understand NP’s objectives - nothing else. Job objectives and goals are between the employer and the employee and not for the public domain.

In many industries these are public domain.

I think your response to Ajax - all he was asking for was ideas, not for people to Poo-pooh ideas - was OTT.  Even a crap idea can spark someone to come up with a great idea, that wouldn’t have come out otherwise.

He responded politely with good reasoning. You were abusive.  Nice one ??‍♂️

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For those saying there is no progress I can remember 2 seasons ago when we rarely had enough shots to beat the goals the opposition scored against us. How long was it that we didn't get a corner for? I can remember us cheering getting a corner. There is a slow and steady uptick in performance on the pitch if only from a very low bar. Things aren't going well accepted but they are better.

If you want to see real progress then you have to take a look at the bigger picture, dead wood almost all gone, wage bill slashed. I know most people only care about what happens on the pitch and that's fair enough as that's what you pay to see but this is the consequence of "going for it", "pushing the boat out" and spending more than we can afford and not making it to the prem - now we need to rebuild. This should be the last season of extremely tight pursue strings.

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1 hour ago, Pezo said:

For those saying there is no progress I can remember 2 seasons ago when we rarely had enough shots to beat the goals the opposition scored against us. How long was it that we didn't get a corner for? I can remember us cheering getting a corner. There is a slow and steady uptick in performance on the pitch if only from a very low bar. Things aren't going well accepted but they are better.

If you want to see real progress then you have to take a look at the bigger picture, dead wood almost all gone, wage bill slashed. I know most people only care about what happens on the pitch and that's fair enough as that's what you pay to see but this is the consequence of "going for it", "pushing the boat out" and spending more than we can afford and not making it to the prem - now we need to rebuild. This should be the last season of extremely tight pursue strings.

Man, that was possibly the worst I've ever seen us! You're right we've definitely become more expansive and entertaining. Still a bit too direct at times but we score some good goals now.

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