Can we play anything other than 3/5/2? team for Luton

[mightyreds89]

Even after clearing dead wood and several new signings I still think we seem way to reliant on a 3-5-2 we just don’t have the personnel to play a different system I don’t think. 
 

Are we good enough to play a 4-4-2 not sure we have a strong 2/partnership at CB or CM to not get overrun which got me thinking about something as close to a 442 that we may get away with…. 
 

King shielding back 4, retiming 3 across the middle who could be fluid and Wiemann plying just off the the striker in the hole and dropping back in when needed. Thoughts? 
 

Assuming HNM back from illness, Atkinson fit and Williams can’t play 2 games in short success. 
 

any chance we may see Kalas on bench minimum? 
 

 

[Davefevs]

I think we could play many other formations, big questions are whether the players can perform better in it.

I don’t think there was much wrong with the formation today, but I think Dasilva tired especially.  Pring on after 55/60 for me.

Fwiw, Wigan created virtually nothing from open play.  I know some people hate xG, but…

this proves it (Wigan left, City right).  For me, that starts to point to us being “okay” in general play…but we did allow them (and the ref) too many opportunities to load our box.  That creates an impression that they were better, and in some ways you can argue they were…in that they created from set play / were effective in their use.  That’s something to work on against sides like that.

For a spell in the first half we stopped pressing high up, but from a deeper position, and they were clueless, guys at the back no idea what to do with it…and we retrieved the bits and pieces because we were more compact.

So, although I’m not an advocate of City’s 3412, much prefer the 3142 we played Wednesday, it’s good enough to get us leads in games, I think we need to think a bit more smart how we close up games.

Im sure on Tuesday there is a good chance Pring and Wilson start…we then have 5 days before Cardiff, meaning anyone playing Tuesday who impresses might stake a claim for Sunday.

We are nowhere near perfect, but I don’t think we are as bad as people are making out.

 

[headhunter]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

I don’t think there was much wrong with the formation today, but I think Dasilva tired especially.  Pring on after 55/60 for me.

 

 

Not like you to scapegoat an individual player Dave. 

What threat did Martin offer in the final 1/3 of the game [pitch for that matter]? He could have come off for King to add numbers in the middle. Maybe he was conserving energy for his undoubted place in the starting line up on Tuesday

[DT The Optimist]

17 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Not like you to scapegoat an individual player Dave. 

Scapegoating? He thought Dasilva  tired, and would have bought on fresh legs….mind you in those conditions Gary Owers  on radio Brizzle thought others faded and were struggling as well.. Tuesday night nice conditions..we hope

[JoeAman08]

I feel like we could but without a defensive midfielder I think going to a 4 is hard. You’d have the same issues imo. I think 352 is fine but not sure we play it to its maximum attacking ability. Probably again the lack of a good defensive midfielder but the 3 offers us a bit of protection for not having one. Also means we ask our 2 cms to sit deeper. 

 

I like Sykes on the right but feel like Dasilva isn’t being positive enough when he has the ball. Think that is hurting us a bit. 
 

Feel like there is a lack of pace up front with no Semenyo. Think Conway helped that but until we pair him with Wells and eventually Semenyo, think we limit our countering which is our main threat. Wells and Conway you can see why hesitant as you could envision the ball not sticking but feel like we have that problem now. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4-4-2 tends to get overrun at this level now IMO or at higher levels anyway.

I suppose a narrow and defensive/counter attacking one maybe different, but the central zones are very important,

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I feel like we could but without a defensive midfielder I think going to a 4 is hard. You’d have the same issues imo. I think 352 is fine but not sure we play it to its maximum attacking ability. Probably again the lack of a good defensive midfielder but the 3 offers us a bit of protection for not having one. Also means we ask our 2 cms to sit deeper. 

 

I like Sykes on the right but feel like Dasilva isn’t being positive enough when he has the ball. Think that is hurting us a bit. 
 

Feel like there is a lack of pace up front with no Semenyo. Think Conway helped that but until we pair him with Wells and eventually Semenyo, think we limit our countering which is our main threat. Wells and Conway you can see why hesitant as you could envision the ball not sticking but feel like we have that problem now. 

I keep saying it, we are lacking a couple of power players (Semenyo one, Kalas two….possibly Pring)

Wasn't scapegoating Dasilva Mr P, just thought he was the one who tired the most, looked exposed after Atkinson went off.  Lang dragged him, Scott and Atkinson around really well by him playing in the hole.  It took three of our players at times to keep him under control, and his influence in the final 20-25 was telling.

But if Pring plays anything like he did at Coventry, once he gets in, he may take some shifting.

Tommy also led the line pretty well at times, wasn’t always Martin dealing with the out-ball.  We could even go with one-up top, condense the midfield with a box.  Weimann and Sykes as the top of the box?  Weimann can still get beyond the last man…like he did yesterday.

The team you start the season with us rarely the team you start October with…best laid plans and all that.

We will continue to evolve.  I see plenty of positives.  I see negatives too, but I’m prepared I see them get ironed out. I see individual errors…they need to work hard on eradicating them.  They will be exposed by better sides.

[JoeAman08]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I keep saying it, we are lacking a couple of power players (Semenyo one, Kalas two….possibly Pring)

Wasn't scapegoating Dasilva Mr P, just thought he was the one who tired the most, looked exposed after Atkinson went off.  Lang dragged him, Scott and Atkinson around really well by him playing in the hole.  It took three of our players at times to keep him under control, and his influence in the final 20-25 was telling.

But if Pring plays anything like he did at Coventry, once he gets in, he may take some shifting.

Tommy also led the line pretty well at times, wasn’t always Martin dealing with the out-ball.  We could even go with one-up top, condense the midfield with a box.  Weimann and Sykes as the top of the box?  Weimann can still get beyond the last man…like he did yesterday.

The team you start the season with us rarely the team you start October with…best laid plans and all that.

We will continue to evolve.  I see plenty of positives.  I see negatives too, but I’m prepared I see them get ironed out. I see individual errors…they need to work hard on eradicating them.  They will be exposed by better sides.

Agree about power players. Was excited preseason with dasilva but isn’t working. Pring I feel needs to come in and give us that pace and power. Lets face it, more energy too. Semenyo and Kalas will help as well but we lack that midfield unit too imo. All nice players in there individually but no one who stands out. I’d like a 3 in midfield but think without that Marlon Pack(for lack of better example) type think we will struggle mostly to control games. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

40 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I keep saying it, we are lacking a couple of power players (Semenyo one, Kalas two….possibly Pring)

Wasn't scapegoating Dasilva Mr P, just thought he was the one who tired the most, looked exposed after Atkinson went off.  Lang dragged him, Scott and Atkinson around really well by him playing in the hole.  It took three of our players at times to keep him under control, and his influence in the final 20-25 was telling.

But if Pring plays anything like he did at Coventry, once he gets in, he may take some shifting.

Tommy also led the line pretty well at times, wasn’t always Martin dealing with the out-ball.  We could even go with one-up top, condense the midfield with a box.  Weimann and Sykes as the top of the box?  Weimann can still get beyond the last man…like he did yesterday.

The team you start the season with us rarely the team you start October with…best laid plans and all that.

We will continue to evolve.  I see plenty of positives.  I see negatives too, but I’m prepared I see them get ironed out. I see individual errors…they need to work hard on eradicating them.  They will be exposed by better sides.

Think that might have been headhunter although will double check who thought you scapegoated DaSilva Dave.

Largely agree with your post- wouldn't mind Pring at LWB, give him a go.  Weimann and Sykes sounds an interesting combo for sure- and like you I see a range of positives, Sunderland at home especially there was some lovely play, really well constructed moves.

[Mr Popodopolous]

In respect of Luton on Tuesday, don't think we should go and rip it up but is there anything to be said for e.g. Off the top of my head, back of a matchbox etc.

              Bentley

Tanner Klose Atkinson Pring

    Sykes Williams Scott

    Weimann Martin Conway

That's a bit straight line and clearly the midfield and attack can be more fluid. ie Weimann can pull central, Sykes can pull a bit wider- not totally putting Conway on the left, that's more a basic template- likewise Weimann is NOT a winger, more that he's a right sided forward of some kind.

Could have more of a 4-2-3-1 albeit with fluidity.

              Bentley

Tanner Klose Atkinson Pring

         Williams Scott

    Sykes Weimann Conway

               Martin

No it's not perfect, I fully realise compromises and trade-offs.

Sykes can pull wider at times- building on his wingback experience to date but also central to support the attack.

We all know Weimann's attributes -starting central in the 3 behind Martin can be good yet he can switch a bit with Sykes- and Sykes himself can be quite central at times. The obvious q is, can Conway at times hold a left hand type position or would this unbalance the side.

Wilson is missing from that side, my question would be how adaptable is he to RB as opposed to RWB?

Edited August 14, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous