Hard reset - sell the assets and rebuild

[BLRed]

Anyone think we should just sell the assets we have simply so we can be on a far better financial footing but also with cash for a rebuild?

15-20 mill for semenyo plus sell on 

25-30 mill for Scott plus sell on

1-2 mill for kalas (more likely to leave for free at end of contract)

1 mill for massengo (More likely to leave for free at end of contract)

1-2 mill for Bentley (May leave for free at end of contract)

 

Money in from Scott and semenyo sale would do 4 things.

put us on a far better standing with ffp

provide a decent transfer kitty to replace players moved on as part of a rebuild.

part of the cash used to pay off the likes of Wells immediately to allow our wage bill to drop significantly.

With improved finances, it would allow us the chance to possibly renew certain players on better terms so the likes of Bentley could be retained for longer.

 

For the longer term, it may be the best strategy. Only question for me that hangs over the club is can the powers that be within the club be trusted recruit well moving forward to replace those moved on.

on recruitment, have we missed the boat however on players that could replace the outgoings that still allow us to be competitive in the championship? 
would the above point be the only reason we don’t sell semenyo and Scott?

 

 

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, BLRed said:

Anyone think we should just sell the assets we have simply so we can be on a far better financial footing but also with cash for a rebuild?

15-20 mill for semenyo plus sell on 

25-30 mill for Scott plus sell on

1-2 mill for kalas (more likely to leave for free at end of contract)

1 mill for massengo (More likely to leave for free at end of contract)

1-2 mill for Bentley (May leave for free at end of contract)

 

Money in from Scott and semenyo sale would do 4 things.

put us on a far better standing with ffp

provide a decent transfer kitty to replace players moved on as part of a rebuild.

part of the cash used to pay off the likes of Wells immediately to allow our wage bill to drop significantly.

With improved finances, it would allow us the chance to possibly renew certain players on better terms so the likes of Bentley could be retained for longer.

 

For the longer term, it may be the best strategy. Only question for me that hangs over the club is can the powers that be within the club be trusted recruit well moving forward to replace those moved on.

on recruitment, have we missed the boat however on players that could replace the outgoings that still allow us to be competitive in the championship? 
would the above point be the only reason we don’t sell semenyo and Scott?

 

 

I guess it would depend if you have complete trust in those implementing the rebuild? Not just recruitment but the manager/coaches etc. Do we have a clear plan?

[Bristol Oil Services]

.... team stays in bottom 3 all season, crowds shrink, income shrinks, L1 rocks up, season ticket sales shrink, all other income shrinks, further sales and cuts required, team starts poorly in L1, crowds dip below 10k .....

[Son of Fred]

22 minutes ago, BLRed said:

Anyone think we should just sell the assets we have simply so we can be on a far better financial footing but also with cash for a rebuild?

15-20 mill for semenyo plus sell on 

25-30 mill for Scott plus sell on

1-2 mill for kalas (more likely to leave for free at end of contract)

1 mill for massengo (More likely to leave for free at end of contract)

1-2 mill for Bentley (May leave for free at end of contract)

 

Money in from Scott and semenyo sale would do 4 things.

put us on a far better standing with ffp

provide a decent transfer kitty to replace players moved on as part of a rebuild.

part of the cash used to pay off the likes of Wells immediately to allow our wage bill to drop significantly.

With improved finances, it would allow us the chance to possibly renew certain players on better terms so the likes of Bentley could be retained for longer.

 

For the longer term, it may be the best strategy. Only question for me that hangs over the club is can the powers that be within the club be trusted recruit well moving forward to replace those moved on.

on recruitment, have we missed the boat however on players that could replace the outgoings that still allow us to be competitive in the championship? 
would the above point be the only reason we don’t sell semenyo and Scott?

 

 

Semenyo,, Scott,, Massengo will all be gone in a year from now anyway - and very likely one of Kalas/Bentley also...

It's all about what funds Nigel will have access to & how smart recruitment will be.

The next 12-18 months will be pivotal - and maintaining Championship status this season absolutely vital.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Son of Fred

[Clutton Caveman]

21 minutes ago, BLRed said:

Anyone think we should just sell the assets we have simply so we can be on a far better financial footing but also with cash for a rebuild?

15-20 mill for semenyo plus sell on 

25-30 mill for Scott plus sell on

1-2 mill for kalas (more likely to leave for free at end of contract)

1 mill for massengo (More likely to leave for free at end of contract)

1-2 mill for Bentley (May leave for free at end of contract)

 

Money in from Scott and semenyo sale would do 4 things.

put us on a far better standing with ffp

provide a decent transfer kitty to replace players moved on as part of a rebuild.

part of the cash used to pay off the likes of Wells immediately to allow our wage bill to drop significantly.

With improved finances, it would allow us the chance to possibly renew certain players on better terms so the likes of Bentley could be retained for longer.

 

For the longer term, it may be the best strategy. Only question for me that hangs over the club is can the powers that be within the club be trusted recruit well moving forward to replace those moved on.

on recruitment, have we missed the boat however on players that could replace the outgoings that still allow us to be competitive in the championship? 
would the above point be the only reason we don’t sell semenyo and Scott?

 

 

Firstly if we don't sell Scott and Semenyo now we will be forced to sell them for a discount when they get closer to the end of their contract.

So let's say we do sell, how would we attract some quality players within our wage structure considering we are a struggling team close to the bottom of the table. My fear is that we would make a snap decision and end up with yet another journeyman looking for a retirement plan.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

13 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I guess it would depend if you have complete trust in those implementing the rebuild? Not just recruitment but the manager/coaches etc. Do we have a clear plan?

Apparently not or if we do it's the best kept secret in football. Lose another 6 or 7 matches and I suspect that SL will pull the plug on NP so is unlikely to give him a massive war chest to rebuild if there was one- which there isnt.

 

As for  the OP - if any club in the universe is ready to spend £25-£30 million on Scott right now then SL would not even blink before accepting. The reality is that there hasnt been a bid and if there is one in the next 2 weeks then I expect it will fall well short of this mythical £25 million and well short of what is required.

Even if we sell all the mentioned players- there is absolutely no guarantee they can be replaced and certainly not in this window.

[GrahamC]

How many times do we need to explain that you cannot sell someone if no one bids?

Kalas (who has been injured since March), Bentley, HNM, there are NO bids.

This is Football Manager stuff.

 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

25 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

.... team stays in bottom 3 all season, crowds shrink, income shrinks, L1 rocks up, season ticket sales shrink, all other income shrinks, further sales and cuts required, team starts poorly in L1, crowds dip below 10k .....

cost of living crisis, mortgage payments up, monkey pox, inflation out of control, national strikes,NHS in crisis  energy rationing and mass unemployment.

 

Happy Monday everyone

[ooRya]

If I was a supporter of Bristol City as a business, then I would agree with the OP. But I'm not, I'm a supporter of Bristol City as a football club, and I want them to try and win things.

So keep the crown jewels and build around them.

[BLRed]

8 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

How many times do we need to explain that you cannot sell someone if no one bids?

Kalas (who has been injured since March), Bentley, HNM, there are NO bids.

This is Football Manager stuff.

 

Hence why in brackets after each of those I put will likely leave in a free at end of contract.

the only saleable assets we have are semenyo and Scott.

[Bristol Oil Services]

9 minutes ago, ooRya said:

If I was a supporter of Bristol City as a business, then I would agree with the OP. But I'm not, I'm a supporter of Bristol City as a football club, and I want them to try and win things.

So keep the crown jewels and build around them.

We need to be in amongst it at the top of the Championship and look like we are going places (places like Anfield and Stamford Bridge) not down the bleedin' bottom looking like another year of struggle lies ahead to have any chance of persuading or convincing a player with the potential to step up a division and interest from a club already there to stick with us for one more season.

[And Its Smith]

£25-30m for Scott won’t happen for a start.  Pearson has signed a fair few players now and has talent like Scott, Semenyo, Williams, Weimann on top of that. He should start doing a lot better soon if he is the manager we all hope he is.  No need for a drastic sell then buy period.  

[Wrongagain]

33 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

How many times do we need to explain that you cannot sell someone if no one bids?

Kalas (who has been injured since March), Bentley, HNM, there are NO bids.

This is Football Manager stuff.

 

In the case of Bentley other clubs will have watched him and lost interest

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, Wrongagain said:

In the case of Bentley other clubs will have watched him and lost interest

Quite possibly, which makes a “sell” even less likely.

[Logical-City]

1 hour ago, BLRed said:

Anyone think we should just sell the assets we have simply so we can be on a far better financial footing but also with cash for a rebuild?

15-20 mill for semenyo plus sell on 

25-30 mill for Scott plus sell on

1-2 mill for kalas (more likely to leave for free at end of contract)

1 mill for massengo (More likely to leave for free at end of contract)

1-2 mill for Bentley (May leave for free at end of contract)

 

Money in from Scott and semenyo sale would do 4 things.

put us on a far better standing with ffp

provide a decent transfer kitty to replace players moved on as part of a rebuild.

part of the cash used to pay off the likes of Wells immediately to allow our wage bill to drop significantly.

With improved finances, it would allow us the chance to possibly renew certain players on better terms so the likes of Bentley could be retained for longer.

 

For the longer term, it may be the best strategy. Only question for me that hangs over the club is can the powers that be within the club be trusted recruit well moving forward to replace those moved on.

on recruitment, have we missed the boat however on players that could replace the outgoings that still allow us to be competitive in the championship? 
would the above point be the only reason we don’t sell semenyo and Scott?

 

 

No one is spending money on Bentley still amuses me that some think he is world class !

Dropped by every manager at key times in seasons since he’s been here I would say he has probably one of the worst GA records of many keepers per game ratio with have ever had and our league positions have been terrible since he has been number 1

Whos spending? Other than the unfounded rumour probably cooked up by his agent about becoming Bournemouths number 2 this summer and a few fans on here blinded by Hollywood saves I’ve seen nothing to justify him as a top end Championship or premier league goalkeeper

Edited August 15, 2022 by Logical-City

[Davefevs]

36 minutes ago, BLRed said:

Hence why in brackets after each of those I put will likely leave in a free at end of contract.

the only saleable assets we have are semenyo and Scott.

You keep forgetting that fee is just one dimension of a transfer.  What about the wages that we are obliged to pay under the current contract.

Who is gonna pick up the tab on Kalas’s £25k p.w without us still having to pay some of it?

This will be a big reason why bids haven’t been forthcoming for some of our players.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

.... team stays in bottom 3 all season, crowds shrink, income shrinks, L1 rocks up, season ticket sales shrink, all other income shrinks, further sales and cuts required, team starts poorly in L1, crowds dip below 10k .....

 

Precisely, and getting out of the L1 mire isn't guaranteed.  Unless you have a vast fanbase a la Sunderland and Wednesday, you end up with vastly declining income as you watch the likes of Morecambe, Fleetwood and Shrewsbury.  Not to mention having to host the fleabags from across the river. 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Logical-City said:

No one is spending money on Bentley still amuses me that some think he is world class !

Dropped by every manager at key times in seasons since he’s been here I would say he has probably one of the worst GA records of many keepers per game ratio with have ever had and our league positions have been terrible since he has been number 1

Whos spending? Other than the unfounded rumour probably cooked up by his agent about becoming Bournemouths number 2 this summer and a few fans on here blinded by Hollywood saves I’ve seen nothing to justify him as a top end premier league goalkeeper

I don’t think anyone inside or outside of football thinks Bents is world class.

He is a decent keeper at this level, but has mini-spells of poor / good form.

[Super]

25-30M for Scott is pure fantasy.

[SecretSam]

No-one is going to buy Kalas when he's on huge wages when they can get him for nothing (and no doubt a lower wage) in less than 12 months; anyway, he's injured. 

Same could be said for HNM and Bents, to some extent.

[BLRed]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You keep forgetting that fee is just one dimension of a transfer.  What about the wages that we are obliged to pay under the current contract.

Who is gonna pick up the tab on Kalas’s £25k p.w without us still having to pay some of it?

This will be a big reason why bids haven’t been forthcoming for some of our players.

Hence why I put in brackets more likely to leave on a free at contract end having run it down. The fees stated for those players are just more hopeful figures in terms of their ability contract status and what we would at a guess need to cover regarding amortisation etc from an ffp point of view if they were to move on now.

[Sir Geoff]

Serious question but how much better is Scott now than Massengo was a couple of years ago ? Imo to get a move to a big club he needs to start impacting games more than he has to date. Last year he was played ' out of position' for the majority of the time. So far this season he has started in his favoured position and been ineffectual both games. Sykes has put in the type of wing back performances that Scott failed to do too often last season.

Scott is not worth £29 million more than Massengo. ( See above)

With the right coaching Scott can become a top player but at the moment he isn' t worth £20 million and I can't see anyone paying anything like that for him imo.

[Dredd]

If we could sell Scott right now, as much as it would be a shame not to see him develop here, he’s not integral to the team at the moment and is replaceable. 
Semenyo is far harder to replace from a goals/assists point of view but if he’s not going to sign a new contract (and he isn’t imo) then we also have to cash in. 
Personally I think we will end up with AS gone by the end of this window, Scott next summer, and I think TK HNM will go next summer for nothing with Bentley signing a new contract. 

[Simon bristol]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

You keep forgetting that fee is just one dimension of a transfer.  What about the wages that we are obliged to pay under the current contract.

Who is gonna pick up the tab on Kalas’s £25k p.w without us still having to pay some of it?

This will be a big reason why bids haven’t been forthcoming for some of our players.

We are gradually moving those rediculous contracts off the books, and the way of doing it is the painful nagy/ palmer deals where they are given away on the condition someone picks up the rest of their contracts. If someone had come in for wells/ kalas/ dasilva/ bentley,  on this basis then im sure it will have been seriously considered,,, perhaps the players themselves would be happy with a 3 year contract on lower wages knowing they have some security. I personally cant wait for next summer when these contracts are all off the books, none of these signings has made any noticable impact on the team, we have wasted so much money!

[Phileas Fogg]

3 hours ago, BLRed said:

Anyone think we should just sell the assets we have simply so we can be on a far better financial footing but also with cash for a rebuild?

15-20 mill for semenyo plus sell on 

25-30 mill for Scott plus sell on

1-2 mill for kalas (more likely to leave for free at end of contract)

1 mill for massengo (More likely to leave for free at end of contract)

1-2 mill for Bentley (May leave for free at end of contract)

 

Money in from Scott and semenyo sale would do 4 things.

put us on a far better standing with ffp

provide a decent transfer kitty to replace players moved on as part of a rebuild.

part of the cash used to pay off the likes of Wells immediately to allow our wage bill to drop significantly.

With improved finances, it would allow us the chance to possibly renew certain players on better terms so the likes of Bentley could be retained for longer.

 

For the longer term, it may be the best strategy. Only question for me that hangs over the club is can the powers that be within the club be trusted recruit well moving forward to replace those moved on.

on recruitment, have we missed the boat however on players that could replace the outgoings that still allow us to be competitive in the championship? 
would the above point be the only reason we don’t sell semenyo and Scott?

It's really not as easy as this. I think people underestimate how complicated football transfers are.

This assumes that we'd get the absolute top end of fees for Semenyo and Scott.. plus Massengo etc. 

It's not as straight forward as just "selling the assets" and everything improves. 

[Davefevs]

54 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

We are gradually moving those rediculous contracts off the books, and the way of doing it is the painful nagy/ palmer deals where they are given away on the condition someone picks up the rest of their contracts. If someone had come in for wells/ kalas/ dasilva/ bentley,  on this basis then im sure it will have been seriously considered,,, perhaps the players themselves would be happy with a 3 year contract on lower wages knowing they have some security. I personally cant wait for next summer when these contracts are all off the books, none of these signings has made any noticable impact on the team, we have wasted so much money!

I’m hoping they see that light when we put a contract in front of them.  Andi Weimann has showed that it can be done.  The big problem is us gambling that they will next summer, rather than bugger off elsewhere for a similar wage.

[NorthBris_Southstand]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I’m hoping they see that light when we put a contract in front of them.  Andi Weimann has showed that it can be done.  The big problem is us gambling that they will next summer, rather than bugger off elsewhere for a similar wage.

I do think with Weimann the stars aligned a little for us. Firstly the fact that it was peak pandemic and clubs had significantly reduced revenue. Secondly he'd come back from a long term injury that season which created some uncertainty about his continued ability to perform given the physicality of the fane. Thirdly we must remember that his time with us up to that point, whilst I think he was a very good player for us, he had not reached the hights that he did last season. Therefore I do think that it is probably more difficult to do deals like that now, the exception being Kalas maybe as he is injured and has not been standout for us over the last year or so. Having said that, it'd have to be a hell of a paycut. At a rumoured £25k pw, I'm not sure I'd want to pay more than half that going forward. 

[Spike]

I'm sat here watching All or Nothing: Arsenal and the one thing I think as a fan we do far too often is forget that the players impact the ability of the manager to sell. The whole is Bentley good enough to make any money off of goes a lot further than the fact he's not been at his best recently, it'll also be down to his personal motivation, his desire to improve his situation etc. From a fan point of view I think Bentley lacks confidence in his area right now and worries about going to the ball on crosses, this is easy to put down to him not being good enough but I think it's also impacted by tactics, the centre backs around him, everything impacts every player differently. I think our back three simply doesn't work for us and having played a goalkeeper I think one of the things I hated was having defenders blocking my view and on corners knowing I had big defenders who didn't attack crosses. In our current 3 at the back you have a defender essentially sat in front of the keeper at all times, add to that how often we play a long ball and invite pressure upon ourselves constantly when in the lead it adds extra pressure and stress which results in second guessing yourself. I think Bentley has been largely hit by not having confidence in the men in front of him, not to say that our centre backs aren't good enough but in that they cannot find consistency in working as a back three. I think there will be clubs who would be interested in Bentley, enough to pay a lot for him... probably not but maybe a fee of some sort but that would largely depend on him.
I actually like Wells but I think his age and his style doesn't suit our 3-5-2 at all, I don't see him ever improving because of it and with his age I think that issue of not playing to his strengths just means he'll continue to lose match sharpness. I think with Wells it all depends on what he wants, does he want to have one last bang at having some great seasons with another team or is he happy to run down his contract, I fear it's the latter and we will not have him move on.
We're not going to get anything for Massengo, clubs know full well they only need to wait one more season to get a lot of raw talent for next to nothing, the only way we're going to get anything for him is if a club want to pick him up rather than risk competition at the end of the season and they make a bid in the January transfer window, they may pay £3m for him if they see that raw talent but we will not get a penny more than that and it's far more likely to be a couple of mill at most. As a young player with aspirations he's going to be motivated but again he's another player who hasn't been played to his strengths in this formation and tactical game, we bypass the midfield and we don't show for the ball and move it about which is his obvious strength. Massengo will undoubtedly go to a team who like possession football, and I don't mean passing around the back 3 before playing a long ball, he'll go to a team who like to pass in the middle of the pitch where he can shine.

The real one that worries me is Scott, if his contract is up at the end of the season we're going to take a huge hit on him. We won't get anywhere near that if anything unless a couple of teams fight over him in January, otherwise they'll keep the big money to use a leverage to sign him with a big sign on bonus and with his amazing talent you can bet there are some Premier clubs looking at him and he'll relish that step up.

I don't see a big sell happening, we have too many short contract issues with our real sellable assets and I think we're far more likely to see Scott and Semenyo go for far less than we see their value at. I think Pearson will continue to look at cheaper buys and potential and that we'll take what we can get and continue as is, I don't see a big rebuild as a possibility.

[Tin Soldier]

The "hard reset" will only happen if Bristol City get relegated.

Then you can see a major clearout and quite frankly Div 1 football would affect the value of Bristol Sport/City if and when Lansdown sells up. 

[ExiledAjax]

12 minutes ago, Spike said:

The real one that worries me is Scott, if his contract is up at the end of the season we're going to take a huge hit on him.

Scott signed a four year contract last August. He's contracted with us until the end of the 2024/25 season. I assume we've the standard 1 year extension option as well. We will be well compensated when he leaves (not £25-30m, but enough).

Semenyo is the one who could go this summer. We will sell for enough £££...whatever that amount is.

Edited August 15, 2022 by ExiledAjax