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Nige on SSN


Silvio Dante

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While I will bemoan decisions and officiating standards like everyone else, I’m full of sympathy for officials.

Easy to see them as the enemy, but the vitriol, venom and scrutiny they face is unbelievable. Let alone the outright abuse and violence many face at amateur level.

There may be a few that referee because they want to be centre of attention, but I reckon the vast majority just love the game and desperately want to be a part of it and help.

I think collectively that the football world needs to expend less energy targeting the officials themselves, and more having honest conversations about how we can improve things short/medium and long term.

Unfortunately, I think the level of abuse and criticism they take has created a defensive mentality from refereeing organisations, which has probably stunted the progress and development of officiating in recent generations.

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I’m completely with Nige on this and I’m delighted he’s stuck his head above the parapet and spoken out, especially as it was after a win. 

The sending off was, on reflection fair enough but the lack of similar punishment for Freeman last night was absolutely scandalous.

I thought the Atkinson pen could have been given on another day as well. I was right in front of that one and it could have gone either way, but Pearson’s frustration with that one was clearly down to the fact that we just never get those decisions and haven’t for some time now.

What the answer is in the short term I don’t know, but something has to change because the overall standard of officiating is as bad as I can ever remember, and I’ve been going to AG for the thick end of 40 years now  

 

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7 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

Absolutely. Sykes was badly fouled by Freeman, which the ref completely missed, so Sykes took matters into his own hands with his two-footed lunge at Freeman in return. Then Freeman had a go at Sykes which started the whole melee out on the pitch. Sykes had to go but so did Freeman. And none of this would have happened if the ref had been any good and spotted the original foul on Sykes in the first place.

And if the referee was bad, the linesman in front of the Lansdown was even worse. Saw nothing all game, couldn’t keep up, and only gave one offside decision all game, which was against Martin and was wrong. Missed any number of offsides and infringements in the first half when Luton were attacking the South Stand. Stealing a living and getting to watch games into the bargain!

Yes the limo / assistant referee was particularly bad, at one stage he was waiting for the ref to indicate the direction of throw-ins before flagging them himself.

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8 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

I'm not overlooking anything. I sit in the Dolman on the half-way line, I have a good view of it.

I agree we've had the crap from refs time and time again. I didn't think that was particularly the case tonight. Opinions.

He got 2 major decisions completely wrong.

The push on Atkinson was as stonewall a penalty as you’ll see.

Freeman should have been sent off.

These aren’t wrongly awarding a corner or a throw, it’s crucial stuff.

The sending off incident came after he lost control & let increasingly wild challenges go.

He (& his linesmen) had no idea of the consistent fouling from Luton’s 11.

He was poor.

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8 hours ago, Bright Cider Life said:

So we all agree it’s a bad standard. Anyone got a solution? Went to a Surburban League Meeting last night and there was a warning that the if the two (yep just 2) new young referees get abuse then your team won’t get a ref for a month. A pretty empty threat as there are hardly any anyway. It’s all about critical mass, small numbers coming through mean standards drop and my guess is not many of you have ever reffed a game in your life. Don’t get me wrong, I am first off my seat to bemoan a decision but in the cold light of day what are any of us doing to make the situation better? 

I was a referee for many years. I wrote the EFL after the Hull game saying the integrity of the EFL is being eroded. I guess they showed my letter to NP as he repeated some stuff almost verbatim (:laugh:) 

Referees get hammered no matter what, it’s something you become immune to. It takes a certain type of testicles to take the whistle particularly when things are charged. However I personally believe that some of the reason that there is a lack of refs is a declining ability to have backbone and with it an inability to shrug off criticism (valid or otherwise)

with all that said. The standard in the EFL aspires to mediocrity at the moment. Yes players will try and cheat with the usual high velocity rifle rolling around, but to be fair the Italian and South American leagues have had those problems for donkeys years. Like many I suspect, I remember the fuss ove Klinsman when he went to spurs all those years ago. So that is nothing new. 
 

Refereeing standards simply have to be better the EFL and the clubs know it. The ref is not always going to be right but they have to have the big decisions right over 90% of the time like it or not!

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They were discussing VAR in the Premier League, on Talksport yesterday morning. VAR doesn’t seem to be the answer either (I’d hate it). They are proposing having a committee to explain the decisions and give reasons for their decisions. It’s so over complicating, dragging out an issue which should be sorted in real time. It’ll kill the game completely. VAR worked fine in the Euro’s, here it’s like some drawn out parish council meeting. Good grief

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I find his other two statements more interesting than the standard of officiating.

The fact he finds modern football shallow and irritating 

In further interviews, it would be interesting for a journalist to press him on what parts of the game he finds shallow and irritating.

When you start to find parts of your job irritating...you start to lose the passion. 

 

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3 minutes ago, spudski said:

I find his other two statements more interesting than the standard of officiating.

The fact he finds modern football shallow and irritating 

In further interviews, it would be interesting for a journalist to press him on what parts of the game he finds shallow and irritating.

When you start to find parts of your job irritating...you start to lose the passion. 

 

Or you focus more what is irritating and it becomes the only thing you see.

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6 minutes ago, spudski said:

I find his other two statements more interesting than the standard of officiating.

The fact he finds modern football shallow and irritating 

In further interviews, it would be interesting for a journalist to press him on what parts of the game he finds shallow and irritating.

When you start to find parts of your job irritating...you start to lose the passion. 

 

The problem is he may very well have on his list ‘journalists’…

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3 minutes ago, spudski said:

I find his other two statements more interesting than the standard of officiating.

The fact he finds modern football shallow and irritating 

In further interviews, it would be interesting for a journalist to press him on what parts of the game he finds shallow and irritating.

When you start to find parts of your job irritating...you start to lose the passion. 

 

I think he’s been pretty open about this in the past.

His comments to Geoff Twentyman about Sky Sports hype being “crap” & his refusal to deal with agents.

I don’t detect any loss of passion, he’s a cynic, he finds pointless, badly researched questions by journalists at his press conferences tedious, so comes across as chippy, but he has said numerous times he is motivated by finding solutions, especially as he knew full well when he took the job, we are in a very difficult place financially.

Said before we are exactly the same age (he’s 59 next week, I was at the weekend) & you reach a stage in your career when you just can’t be bothered with all the nonsense.

I am convinced this will be his last job in football but that doesn’t mean he wants to stop soon, or before he’s achieved what is possible with us.

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5 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Or you focus more what is irritating and it becomes the only thing you see.

It resonated with myself...for exactly the reasons you say.

I previously used to coach a sport professionally. I loved it, so passionate. Then internal politics took over...how the association changed for the worse. Power struggles and change that made no sense. The passion drained as everything seemed to contradict itself. Like you say...the irritation became the main focus and just wore your passion down. Banging your head against a brick wall, knowing you can't change it. 

7 minutes ago, cityexile said:

The problem is he may very well have on his list ‘journalists’…

 

5 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I think he’s been pretty open about this in the past.

His comments to Geoff Twentyman about Sky Sports hype being “crap” & his refusal to deal with agents.

I don’t detect any loss of passion, he’s a cynic, he finds pointless, badly researched questions by journalists at his press conferences tedious, so comes across as chippy, but he has said numerous times he is motivated by finding solutions, especially as he knew full well when he took the job, we are in a very difficult place financially.

Said before we are exactly the same age (he’s 59 next week, I was at the weekend) & you reach a stage in your career when you just can’t be bothered with all the nonsense.

I am convinced this will be his last job in football but that doesn’t mean he wants to stop soon, or before he’s achieved what is possible with us.

I agree with those views. At a certain age, you can no longer suffer fools gladly.

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1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

I am convinced this will be his last job in football but that doesn’t mean he wants to stop soon, or before he’s achieved what is possible with us.

 

I think you're right. Unlike some people in the game, he has lots of other interests - more than the traditional 'playing golf', but he does that as well - and will want to enjoy a well-earned retirement.  Plus, he's the sort of guy who will want to go out on a high, not a low. Reputation and respect matter as much as money in this stage of his career.

He makes very sensible points about the officiating. The decision-making is supposed to be scrutinised post-game by an independent assessor, who can bring in other members of the oversight panel if he thinks the ref has dropped a bollock. So, given that they are professional officials at Championship level, why are so many, so bad?

I'd love to hear last night ref's explanation of his yellow to Freeman. If someone charges into your back when you aren't expecting it and sends you flying that is violent conduct, whether it's off a football pitch or on it. Violent conduct is a straight red, three match ban. 

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This image sums up refereeing standards.

Should be made into a meme.

They can't see, and more interested in how they look.

It's of the fourth official yesterday. How the hell can you take an official seriously...discuss with them...when they are obviously trying to be noticed,  vicariously trying to be a 'footballer', rather than a serious official and doing the job for the right reasons.

I often get the impression that a good majority of officials these days, don't love refereeing and do the job because they enjoy it. But rather, are failed footballers or fans of football...that have seen refereeing as a way to be part of Professional football, on the pitch with top players, creating an importance in themselves, a persona, a character, where they feel they are also 'stars' of the show. Where they feel they are just as important as the players.

A good official should go unnoticed.

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/referee-darren-bond-gestures-as-he-leaves-the-pitch-after-news-photo/1240808707

 

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32 minutes ago, spudski said:

I find his other two statements more interesting than the standard of officiating.

The fact he finds modern football shallow and irritating 

In further interviews, it would be interesting for a journalist to press him on what parts of the game he finds shallow and irritating.

When you start to find parts of your job irritating...you start to lose the passion. 

 

For me it's that fact you can clearly see most markedly with Man Utd all the players who go there seem to lose their focus on the game and turn shit.  It can't be money can it........ 

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1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said:

They were discussing VAR in the Premier League, on Talksport yesterday morning. VAR doesn’t seem to be the answer either (I’d hate it). They are proposing having a committee to explain the decisions and give reasons for their decisions. It’s so over complicating, dragging out an issue which should be sorted in real time. It’ll kill the game completely. VAR worked fine in the Euro’s, here it’s like some drawn out parish council meeting. Good grief

The problem with VAR is its trying to be too precise and be 100% correct, when VAR was introduced it was supposed to be for clear and obvious mistakes, but now we have every goal scrutinised for minutes, in case someone's hair follicle was offside.

Make it so the reviews have a time limit, say 30 seconds if that's enough to get the different camera angles, an experienced ref reviewing should be able to determine if its a obvious mistake in that time and if he cant then its not that obvious, maybe give managers 2 challenges in a game that they can go to the 4th official and ask for a review of an incident, so you are not solely reliant on the ref asking for a review or it being done automatically on every decision and action.

The game moves so fast now and very difficult for a ref / assistant to keep up with all the action and see what's going on, with so much at stake and money in the modern game they need help.

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6 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

The problem with VAR is its trying to be too precise and be 100% correct, when VAR was introduced it was supposed to be for clear and obvious mistakes, but now we have every goal scrutinised for minutes, in case someone's hair follicle was offside.

Make it so the reviews have a time limit, say 30 seconds if that's enough to get the different camera angles, an experienced ref reviewing should be able to determine if its a obvious mistake in that time and if he cant then its not that obvious, maybe give managers 2 challenges in a game that they can go to the 4th official and ask for a review of an incident, so you are not solely reliant on the ref asking for a review or it being done automatically on every decision and action.

The game moves so fast now and very difficult for a ref / assistant to keep up with all the action and see what's going on, with so much at stake and money in the modern game they need help.

This.

For offsides VAR should be one line across the pitch and if you cannot see they are offside it's not offside. End of. Should be done in seconds from a studio and relayed back with hardly any interruptions.

It's got to the point of "look what we can do". 

 

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Well said Nigel, but please don't walk away.

Going back many years British refs were rightly regarded as the best in the world. Today that is not the case, watching European matches and World cup matches their are some great refs around the world. So with all the money in the prem why cant they employee say ten of the best in the word. Then relegate ten down to the Championship that might improve standards. After that each season one or two if thought good enough go back to the Prem and so on.

Also as the Championship is regarded as the 6th best league in the world and the financial pluses large therefor decisions taken by refs have a massive impact on the clubs VAR has to come in.

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5 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Well said Nigel, but please don't walk away.

Going back many years British refs were rightly regarded as the best in the world. Today that is not the case, watching European matches and World cup matches their are some great refs around the world. So with all the money in the prem why cant they employee say ten of the best in the word. Then relegate ten down to the Championship that might improve standards. After that each season one or two if thought good enough go back to the Prem and so on.

Also as the Championship is regarded as the 6th best league in the world and the financial pluses large therefor decisions taken by refs have a massive impact on the clubs VAR has to come in.

Great post.

Why not get the best refs from around the world into our game ?

 

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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Said before we are exactly the same age (he’s 59 next week, I was at the weekend) & you reach a stage in your career when you just can’t be bothered with all the nonsense.

I am convinced this will be his last job in football but that doesn’t mean he wants to stop soon, or before he’s achieved what is possible with us.

If he’s not 59 til next week, I incorrectly said Alex Scott was 19 already (a @headhuntererrir ???)…as they share the same birthday…just 40 years apart.

1 hour ago, spudski said:

This image sums up refereeing standards.

Should be made into a meme.

They can't see, and more interested in how they look.

It's of the fourth official yesterday. How the hell can you take an official seriously...discuss with them...when they are obviously trying to be noticed,  vicariously trying to be a 'footballer', rather than a serious official and doing the job for the right reasons.

I often get the impression that a good majority of officials these days, don't love refereeing and do the job because they enjoy it. But rather, are failed footballers or fans of football...that have seen refereeing as a way to be part of Professional football, on the pitch with top players, creating an importance in themselves, a persona, a character, where they feel they are also 'stars' of the show. Where they feel they are just as important as the players.

A good official should go unnoticed.

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/referee-darren-bond-gestures-as-he-leaves-the-pitch-after-news-photo/1240808707

 

So agree Spud.  It’s a generalisation but I often call them “revenge for being last pick in the playground”.

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10 minutes ago, Super said:

talking about him on talksport

Can’t disagree with what they are saying tbh. Get VAR in the championship is the solution but then some will still complain about that (for petty reasons like slowing the game down)

Your not going to lose your job over refereeing decisions  

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We've been on the receiving end of poor refereeing decisions for years - it makes me wonder sometimes if the Referees Association has a collective bet on us getting relegated!!
There are loads of examples - Hull being one the other week, but the game that really sticks in my own mind is that game at Villa a few seasons ago where Weimann had a perfectly good goal disallowed (one of about 7 that season) and Villa were awarded a ridiculous penalty. We should have won that game, but lost because of poor refereeing - LJ received a personal apology from the RA afterwards but it was too late - 3 points lost. With those 3 points we would have made the playoffs that season.

It happens to ALL clubs - but it seems to happen to us more often.

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Saying you think of quitting because of some reffing decisions!! Ha ha. What a load of tripe. 
Get a grip Nige. 
 

Ref was spot on last night. Sykes clear red. Freeman clear yellow. Atkinson no pen. 
I’m also in a minority that says the Hull penalty was a pen. 
I’d agree with the Wigan player deserving a red last week but that’s the only one that’s clearly and obviously gone against us. 
All our other penalty shouts this season are the type of ones that every team will also have had a shout for this season. 
 

Many of you are being incredibly one-eyed on this. Imagine if Lee Johnson had said this ?. You’d all be saying what a little cry baby he is! 

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7 minutes ago, Harry said:

Saying you think of quitting because of some reffing decisions!! Ha ha. What a load of tripe. 
Get a grip Nige. 
 

Ref was spot on last night. Sykes clear red. Freeman clear yellow. Atkinson no pen. 
I’m also in a minority that says the Hull penalty was a pen
I’d agree with the Wigan player deserving a red last week but that’s the only one that’s clearly and obviously gone against us. 
All our other penalty shouts this season are the type of ones that every team will also have had a shout for this season. 
 

Many of you are being incredibly one-eyed on this. Imagine if Lee Johnson had said this ?. You’d all be saying what a little cry baby he is! 

You lost me here. 

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