Sending off

[Harry]

I find it odd that some people are saying “well, at least he showed some passion”!

Jeez. That’s not passion. It’s stupidity. 
He lost his head and flew in, 2 feet, studs up, from behind and thoroughly deserved the red. 
I also didn’t like his fake head injury after being barged in the back. If that was a Warnock player, we’d be screaming blue murder at him. Just because he’s one of ours doesn’t mean we shouldn’t call it out or condone it. 
I didn’t like that, and he’s got a lot to do to convince me he’s not a horrible Warnock-type now. 

[extonsred]

8 hours ago, Harry said:

I thought the ref got it spot on tonight. 
The Atkinson appeal was nothing. Don’t even think there was contact and if there was it was initiated by Atkinson himself moving his right leg toward the defender. And he made a meal of it. 
 

As for the sending off. 
2 footed, from behind, aggressive, red mist having not got a free kick. Absolutely the right decision and a moment of stupidity from Sykes. 
Freeman - as far as I’m aware, it’s not a sending off offence if you barge someone in the back. So a yellow card was correct there too. 
What I didn’t like was how Sykes went down holding his head when his head hadn’t been touched and he’d only been barged in the back. 
So a stupid tackle and then cheating to follow it up. Not the proudest 30 seconds of Sykes career I’d guess. 

Wasn't Atkinson pushed from behind? That's how I I turreted it n had to be a penny.. but not seen it yet!

[Harry]

3 minutes ago, extonsred said:

Wasn't Atkinson pushed from behind? That's how I I turreted it n had to be a penny.. but not seen it yet!

Looked to me as if he tried to take the ball past the man, was expecting a tangle of legs, the Luton player did well to avoid the tangle of legs and Atkinson moved his leg toward the Luton player and went down easy. 
If it was given against us, we’d be going mad at the ref and Pearson would receive another fine. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Harry

[maxjak]

2 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/bristol-city/12674711/bristol-city-2-0-luton-championship-highlights
 

it’s on here

  I was unable to get to game......so that is the first i have seen of it.  I must admit after reading some comments on here I was expecting some kind of feet off the floor career threatening lunge?  Having watched it 4 or 5 times....I see it at worst as 2 yellows, and if anything, it is violent conduct by Freeman that could constitute a sending off.  I try to remain objective, which is hard with all matters City, but i see Sykes as unlucky?

[marmite]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I find it odd that some people are saying “well, at least he showed some passion”!

Jeez. That’s not passion. It’s stupidity. 
He lost his head and flew in, 2 feet, studs up, from behind and thoroughly deserved the red. 
I also didn’t like his fake head injury after being barged in the back. If that was a Warnock player, we’d be screaming blue murder at him. Just because he’s one of ours doesn’t mean we shouldn’t call it out or condone it. 
I didn’t like that, and he’s got a lot to do to convince me he’s not a horrible Warnock-type now. 

Yea agree with most of this Harry. However  it's about time we got more streetwise in our approach. We've been that nice Bristol City for far too long. 

 

[exAtyeoMax]

11 minutes ago, maxjak said:

  I was unable to get to game......so that is the first i have seen of it.  I must admit after reading some comments on here I was expecting some kind of feet off the floor career threatening lunge?  Having watched it 4 or 5 times....I see it at worst as 2 yellows, and if anything, it is violent conduct by Freeman that could constitute a sending off.  I try to remain objective, which is hard with all matters City, but i see Sykes as unlucky?

Yes, it doesn’t look so bad on the highlights. 
I was in the south stand and most of those around me didn’t have a clue what was going on, we saw the tussle beforehand and was surprised to see Sykes sent off. 
I kept hearing “The Streak” in my head.

[Harry]

26 minutes ago, marmite said:

Yea agree with most of this Harry. However  it's about time we got more streetwise in our approach. We've been that nice Bristol City for far too long. 

 

“Streetwise” to me doesn’t mean you have to fake a head injury to try to get an opponent sent off. 
 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Harry

[Packman]

From what Harry said I was expecting much worse from the highlights, was neither two footed or studs up, yellow for both and get on with it.

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, extonsred said:

Wasn't Atkinson pushed from behind? That's how I I turreted it n had to be a penny.. but not seen it yet!

From my angle in the South Stand it was a clear push / shove. As obvious a penalty as I've seen since......Wigan.

[Red-Robbo]

17 minutes ago, maxjak said:

  I was unable to get to game......so that is the first i have seen of it.  I must admit after reading some comments on here I was expecting some kind of feet off the floor career threatening lunge?  Having watched it 4 or 5 times....I see it at worst as 2 yellows, and if anything, it is violent conduct by Freeman that could constitute a sending off.  I try to remain objective, which is hard with all matters City, but i see Sykes as unlucky?

 

Sykes had been fouled just before by being checked and held between two of their players and was just a bit overkeen to win the ball back. I don't think there was any violent intent, he just mistimed an attempt to take the ball back from Freman and caught him. A red? As Pearson said, not in the 20th Century, but in today's football, both feet made contact with Freeman, so I'm not surprised.

As for Freeman: how can that NOT be violent intent? If you shoulder charged someone who wasn't expecting it in a pub and sent them flying, police might be called. On the pitch, doing it just because you're angry, it can be nothing more than a straight red. It goes far beyond pushing an opponent, which is a yellow.  Luke, despite looking like a cross between Jay from The Inbetweeners and a girl's netball captain, has always liked to give out the vibe that he's a bit of a cockney geezer type. 

His speed was what I loved about him, when he played for us. At 30, that seems to have dimmed significantly. So, he got annoyed at his side being made to look mugs. 

[Harry]

Not dangerous. Not two footed. Yeah ok. 
No idea why anyone would defend this sort of tackle. It’s dangerous and was highly intentional, fully deserved a red and he’s basically let his team mates down. 
 

As for Atkinson, Luton player’s foot is miles from the ball, Atkinson moves his right leg toward the Luton player and then falls. No foul for me. 
Ref had a great view of it and clearly saw it as Atkinson initiating contact  

Edited August 17, 2022 by Harry

[slartibartfast]

32 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Sykes had been fouled just before by being checked and held between two of their players and was just a bit overkeen to win the ball back. I don't think there was any violent intent, he just mistimed an attempt to take the ball back from Freman and caught him. A red? As Pearson said, not in the 20th Century, but in today's football, both feet made contact with Freeman, so I'm not surprised.

As for Freeman: how can that NOT be violent intent? If you shoulder charged someone who wasn't expecting it in a pub and sent them flying, police might be called. On the pitch, doing it just because you're angry, it can be nothing more than a straight red. It goes far beyond pushing an opponent, which is a yellow.  Luke, despite looking like a cross between Jay from The Inbetweeners and a girl's netball captain, has always liked to give out the vibe that he's a bit of a cockney geezer type. 

His speed was what I loved about him, when he played for us. At 30, that seems to have dimmed significantly. So, he got annoyed at his side being made to look mugs. 

I remember him getting a red playing for us, in virtually the same spot on the pitch  .

[bcfc01]

Having watched the replays several times;

Definite red card these days (and Freeman should have walked as well). Its no excuse that Sykes was clearly fouled in the build up to the sending off, he should have known better.

Definite penalty, no doubt about it imo, another dreadful refereeing decision.

 

 

 

[bcfc01]

1 minute ago, slartibartfast said:

I remember him getting a red playing for us, in virtually the same spot on the pitch  .

Yep, opening game of the season v Brentford, Kung Fu type kick to the chest.

[Kodjias Wrist]

2 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

I remember him getting a red playing for us, in virtually the same spot on the pitch  .

High boot against Brentford first game back? Fans really gave it to the ref that game.

[Harry]

4 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Having watched the replays several times;

Definite red card these days (and Freeman should have walked as well). Its no excuse that Sykes was clearly fouled in the build up to the sending off, he should have known better.

Definite penalty, no doubt about it imo, another dreadful refereeing decision.

 

 

 

Why should Freeman have been sent off? 
He barged a player in the back. That’s a yellow. Not a red. 
 

Why was Atkinson’s a definite penalty? 
Atkinson to me appears to initiate the contact and the ref was right in line with it and had a brilliantly clear view. 

[Red-Robbo]

8 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

I remember him getting a red playing for us, in virtually the same spot on the pitch  .

 

Yeah, red mist in that case as well. 

[Packman]

22 minutes ago, Harry said:

Not dangerous. Not two footed. Yeah ok. 
No idea why anyone would defend this sort of tackle. It’s dangerous and was highly intentional, fully deserved a red and he’s basically let his team mates down. 
 

As for Atkinson, Luton player’s foot is miles from the ball, Atkinson moves his right leg toward the Luton player and then falls. No foul for me. 
Ref had a great view of it and clearly saw it as Atkinson initiating contact  

You said two footed with studs up, can't see his studs up from that pic.

[johnheadbcfc]

1 minute ago, Packman said:

You said two footed with studs up, can't see his studs up from that pic.

Next thing is both our goals should be disallowed 

[petehinton]

You can clearly see the Luton defender extend his arm to shove Atkinson off from a view from the dolman. Luton player looks at the ref after too. 

[Denbury Red]

What I find really frustrating at these type of situations is that if Sykes challenge hadn’t been out of control and he had still been sent off we would have been appealing the decision this morning.

So then what happens ….

The EFL review the camera footage to decide whether or not the ref got it right!!

So what’s stopping the 4th official reviewing the footage at the time and if there is something he believes will help the ref make the correct decision then he is invited to look at the footage - if the footage doesn’t catch the incident we carry on as we are!

Surely this is better than getting many dubious (red cards, penalties etc) decisions wrong!

[Harry]

15 minutes ago, Packman said:

You said two footed with studs up, can't see his studs up from that pic.

His left foot was studs up. In the pic you can only see his right - because he’s got both going in! 
I amazed there are people trying to defend him. It’s a reckless and fully intentional tackle. 

[James54De]

40 minutes ago, Denbury Red said:

What I find really frustrating at these type of situations is that if Sykes challenge hadn’t been out of control and he had still been sent off we would have been appealing the decision this morning.

So then what happens ….

The EFL review the camera footage to decide whether or not the ref got it right!!

So what’s stopping the 4th official reviewing the footage at the time and if there is something he believes will help the ref make the correct decision then he is invited to look at the footage - if the footage doesn’t catch the incident we carry on as we are!

Surely this is better than getting many dubious (red cards, penalties etc) decisions wrong!

You mean like… VAR? 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Not dangerous. Not two footed. Yeah ok. 
No idea why anyone would defend this sort of tackle. It’s dangerous and was highly intentional, fully deserved a red and he’s basically let his team mates down. 
 

As for Atkinson, Luton player’s foot is miles from the ball, Atkinson moves his right leg toward the Luton player and then falls. No foul for me. 
Ref had a great view of it and clearly saw it as Atkinson initiating contact  

It’s not his foot that makes the contact, more knee area, plus the shove.  Blatant penalty…and nailed on - similar scenario to that of Dadilva’s first minute challenge from Darikwa on Saturday.  Just more obvious.

 

[Rob k]

56 minutes ago, Harry said:

Why was Atkinson’s a definite penalty? 
Atkinson to me appears to initiate the contact and the ref was right in line with it and had a brilliantly clear view. 

It’s either a penalty or a yellow card to Atkinson and neither happened so either way poor refereeing 

[Denbury Red]

22 minutes ago, James54De said:

You mean like… VAR? 

Absolutely - but there isn’t the money for VAR so surely this is better than having to appeal the day after (in respect of erroneous Red Cards) and perhaps helps getting penalty decisions correct more often!

We have cameras- why not use them!!

[downendcity]

From my perspective the ref's mistake was in the passage of play immediately prior to the sending off incident. Sykes was manhandled (by Freeman I think) a pretty clear foul. There was no advantage, so the ref cannot use that as a reason/excuse for not blowing for the foul.

Unfortunately Sykes let it get to him and you can clearly see that he was "out for revenge". As others have said, in this day and age a challenge carried out with pretty clear intent and force is more than likely to secure a red card, as duly happened. Freeman's retaliation would probably get a red card on another day, but I think the melee following his confrontation with Sykes caused the ref to be more lenient than he might have been.

We do seem to get the rough edge of ref decisions, but I don't think the sending off is one of them.

Hopefully Pearson will have a quiet word with Sykes about keeping his head, as it is quiet conceivable that with our track record, on another day his sending off could have seen us lose the match!

[Harry]

2 hours ago, Rob k said:

It’s either a penalty or a yellow card to Atkinson and neither happened so either way poor refereeing 

Or the ref saw perfectly clearly, from an unobstructed view 10 yards away, that there was contact between the 2 players but it wasn’t purposely initiated by the defender but cleverly initiated by the attacker - he deduced that it was neither a penalty, but also not a dive, and that play-on was the correct decision. 
 

[Rob k]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

Or the ref saw perfectly clearly, from an unobstructed view 10 yards away, that there was contact between the 2 players but it wasn’t purposely initiated by the defender but cleverly initiated by the attacker - he deduced that it was neither a penalty, but also not a dive, and that play-on was the correct decision. 
 

Hmmmmm - you probably have more faith in that being the case than i do!!!

[Harry]

14 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Hmmmmm - you probably have more faith in that being the case than i do!!!

I do. Would you like another fight about it