I enjoyed that, but…..

[Harry]

Wasn’t sure whether to stick this on the Pearson thread or the match thread but I thought I’d add a new one with a focus purely on the tactical substitutions after the red card. 
It was the most baffling set of substitutes I think I’ve ever witnessed. 
In the end; we got the win, but it was more because Luton were absolute dog-mess rather than our post-red card performance. 
 

2 main points. 
1) We have 2 specialist right backs sat on the bench. 
2) Luton’s back like were all over the place due to the fantastic runs and movement of Wells and Conway. 
 

After the red, the first thing we did was stick Scott to right wing back. That immediately surrendered the midfield. 
5 minutes later, Pearson realised this and changed it, putting Scott back in the middle and bringing Weimann to right wing back. 
 

So that was 2 changes, before any sub was made, meanwhile you still have 2 specialist right backs sat on the bench. 
 

Now the subs begin. Martin & Williams. For Wells & Conway. 
Still no sign of any of the 2 specialist right backs. We decide to take our front 3, who had been dangerous all night and had Luton soiling their pants, and we remove 2 of them from the pitch, stick the 3rd one at right back and bring on Martin. 
 

This surrendered the whole game. Our threat all night was the movement up front and getting their defence turned. What the game didn’t need was a target man. If we were to be conceding more possession and territory due to the numerical disadvantage then the one thing that would keep their defence on their toes would be the continued threat of a striker making runs behind them. They were scared all night. As soon as Martin came on their eyes lit up. Bradley knew that was much more his game, and he needn’t worry about running toward his own goal again all night. 
All it would take was a ball forward into the channel, one of Wells/Conway/Weimann to pressure the corner, win throws/corners/free kicks in the opposition half to relieve the pressure of the numerical disadvantage. 
We didn’t have anything going forward for the rest of the match. 
 

Next, another sub. Klose in, Scott off. 
Still no sign of either of the specialist right backs sat on the bench. And now, he sticks Vyner out there instead and puts Weimann back into midfield! 

Finally King comes on for Weimann. 
 

We went from threatening their back line with pace, movement, passing, with 3 willing runners up front and 2 youngsters with energy, legs and passing ability in the midfield, to a central 3 of Martin, Williams & King. Poor old Williams - we were supposed to be resting him in midweek games. He finds himself as the one expected to chase and press in the midfield, having to make a number of lengthy sprints, and at one point I thought he’d injured himself again. 
 

We took away the one thing that was threatening them all night and gave their defence an easy ride in the last half hour. We didn’t need to surrender the game like that. We could have kept at least 1 of Wells, Conway or Weimann up top to keep them on their toes and still pose a threat in behind. 
Yes it’s hard with 10. Instinct is to defend. But we didn’t need to do that. Luton were terrible. A better team comes back and draws that game tonight. 

If I’m Tanner or Wilson I’d be majorly pissed. We played 3 different right backs and used all of the subs bar those 2. The right back was sent off and we had 2 on the bench, yet somehow played 3 other players in that position within 20 minutes! 
 

I was really really enjoying that game up until the red. And then I was incredibly pissed off. First at Sykes for being an absolute dick and losing his head, and then for how we contrived to offer the game up to them with the odd substitutions. 

I’m glad Luton were so poor. And I hope they go down. A better team comes back tonight after that red. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Harry

[bcfc01]

2-0.

[BCFCGav]

Martin functioned well as an out ball and I’m pretty sure Conway and Wells were blowing. So happy enough with that. Agree regarding the right backs, think Tanner might’ve been the man as he likes getting stuck in and defending aggressively. But hard to be glum tonight, so no complaints from me!

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

Wasn’t sure whether to stick this on the Pearson thread or the match thread but I thought I’d add a new one with a focus purely on the tactical substitutions after the red card. 
It was the most baffling set of substitutes I think I’ve ever witnessed. 
In the end; we got the win, but it was more because Luton were absolute dog-mess rather than our post-red card performance. 
 

2 main points. 
1) We have 2 specialist right backs sat on the bench. 
2) Luton’s back like were all over the place due to the fantastic runs and movement of Wells and Conway. 
 

After the red, the first thing we did was stick Scott to right wing back. That immediately surrendered the midfield. 
5 minutes later, Pearson realised this and changed it, putting Scott back in the middle and bringing Weimann to right wing back. 
 

So that was 2 changes, before any sub was made, meanwhile you still have 2 specialist right backs sat on the bench. 
 

Now the subs begin. Martin & Williams. For Wells & Conway. 
Still no sign of any of the 2 specialist right backs. We decide to take our front 3, who had been dangerous all night and had Luton soiling their pants, and we remove 2 of them from the pitch, stick the 3rd one at right back and bring on Martin. 
 

This surrendered the whole game. Our threat all night was the movement up front and getting their defence turned. What the game didn’t need was a target man. If we were to be conceding more possession and territory due to the numerical disadvantage then the one thing that would keep their defence on their toes would be the continued threat of a striker making runs behind them. They were scared all night. As soon as Martin came on their eyes lit up. Bradley knew that was much more his game, and he needn’t worry about running toward his own goal again all night. 
All it would take was a ball forward into the channel, one of Wells/Conway/Weimann to pressure the corner, win throws/corners/free kicks in the opposition half to relive the pressure of the numerical disadvantage. 
We didn’t have anything going forward for the rest of the match. 
 

Next, another sub. Klose in, Scott off. 
Still no sign of either of the specialist right backs sat on the bench. And now, he sticks Vyner out there instead and outs Weimann back into midfield! 

Finally King comes on for Weimann. 
 

We went from threatening their back line with pace, movement, passing, with 3 willing runners up front and 2 youngsters with energy, legs and passing ability in the midfield, to a central 3 of Martin, Williams & King. Poor old Williams - we were supposed to be resting him in midweek games. He finds himself as the one expected to chase and press in the midfield, having to make a number of lengthy sprints, and at one point I thought he’d injured himself again. 
 

We took away the one thing that was threatening them all night and gave their defence and say ride in the last half hour. We didn’t need to surrender the game like that. We could have kept at least 1 of Wells, Conway or Weimann up top to keep them on their toes and still pose a threat in behind. 
Yes it’s hard with 10. Instinct is to defend. But we didn’t need to do that. Luton were terrible. A better team comes back and draws that game. tonight. 

If I’m Tanner or Wilson I’d be majorly pissed. We played 3 different right backs and used all of the subs bar those 2. The right back was sent off and we had 2 on the bench, yet somehow played 3 other players in that position within 20 minutes! 
 

I was really really enjoy that game up until the red. And then I was incredibly pissed off. First at Sykes for being an absolute dick and losing his head, and then for how we contrived to offer the game up to them with the odd substitutions. 

I’m glad Luton were so poor. And I hope they go down. A better team comes back tonight after that red. 

For what it’s worth I thought Pearson made the perfect substitutions tonight, and I’ve been very critical of his subs in the past.  And as bcfc01 has pointed out: 2-0!

[Harry]

4 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

2-0.

 

Just now, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

For what it’s worth I thought Pearson made the perfect substitutions tonight, and I’ve been very critical of his subs in the past.  And as bcfc01 has pointed out: 2-0!

 

4 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

2-0.

2-0 because Luton were dogmess, not because we deserved it after the red 

[DaveF]

Just now, Harry said:

 

 

2-0 because Luton were dogmess, not because we deserved it after the red 

Really? I thought we saw it out reasonably comfortably considering. 

[bcfc01]

Just now, Harry said:

 

 

2-0 because Luton were dogmess, not because we deserved it after the red 

In your opinion.

Mine differs.

[GrahamC]

4 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Martin functioned well as an out ball and I’m pretty sure Conway and Wells were blowing. So happy enough with that. Agree regarding the right backs, think Tanner might’ve been the man as he likes getting stuck in and defending aggressively. But hard to be glum tonight, so no complaints from me!

Martin did excellently, every ball stuck bar one terrible Joe Williams pass, he won a decent amount in the air & helped out defensively at set pieces.

I thought at RCB & then RWB that was Vyner’s best game in ages, one error aside first half when he allowed Morris to turn him, he was very good.

Edited August 16, 2022 by GrahamC

[Silvio Dante]

I can see the point here but also see Pearson’s logic.

- Scott to RB made sense in the immediate aftermath of the red. Work out what to do and play him somewhere he can play

- After that, taking one striker off makes sense. You can’t go 3-3-3 and you always keep Andi on for the high energy press so you take a striker off to fortify the defence. That means one of Wells or Conway goes, and if you then think you are playing one up top, Martins the “out”  - so the subs are again logical

- Scott off, Klose on. Game into last ten, big balls in box expected - tall, good header on

(at this point our shape was excellent. We were Martin than two banks of 4 and they couldn’t break us down)

- Weimann off and King on. Last five, looking to sit deeper and act as barrier

I understand the point made but I thought what NP did made total sense as well. More than one way to skin a cat.

[BLRed]

Don’t think NP trusts either of our rb’s. Or rather doesn’t fancy them to do a capable job which is odd considering we signed them to provide the balance and specialisation for that role. 
 

Could be as simple as Sykes got the nod and has impressed since and it’s down to the other two to force their way in. Doesn’t explain their lack of chance tonight though…

The one good thing about Sykes being banned is it may give Wilson a chance to impress.

[Harry]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Martin did excellently, every ball stuck bar one terrible Joe Williams pass, he won a decent amount in the air & helped out defensively at set pieces.

I thought at RCB & then RWB that was Vyner’s best game in ages, one error aside first half when he allowed Morris to turn him, he was very good.

I agree. Vyner had a good game. 
But Martin was the wrong option. We didn’t need a hold up guy, we needed to turn their defence to relieve pressure. We invited it instead 

[DaveF]

I also think he was keen to add height with every substitution, as that seemed like the main threat from Luton. Both RBs are tiny.

[2015]

If you can't enjoy that tonight then may as well give up going.

Thought Luton were toothless if anything and were just totally 2nd best in Midfield as Han and Scott played so well. Osho looked a decent player for them.

We were good for the 90 tonight and 2-0 flattered Luton

[Harry]

1 minute ago, DaveF said:

I also think he was keen to add height with every substitution, as that seemed like the main threat from Luton. Both RBs are tiny.

Tanner is 6ft. 
 

I’m not disagreeing with Klose coming on, my main point is that we surrendered any threat we carried, made the last 25 minutes easy for their back line, and failed to use one of 2 right backs on the bench, when our right back was sent off. 

[Simon79]

1 minute ago, DaveF said:

I also think he was keen to add height with every substitution, as that seemed like the main threat from Luton. Both RBs are tiny.

I think that is exactly right. Would of loved Wells & Conway to stay on, but they haven’t had a lot of football & we’re probably blowing after the effort they had put in tonight. Think he went with height & experience. COYR 

[petehinton]

Bloody hell

[Jeez]

10 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Martin functioned well as an out ball and I’m pretty sure Conway and Wells were blowing. So happy enough with that. Agree regarding the right backs, think Tanner might’ve been the man as he likes getting stuck in and defending aggressively. But hard to be glum tonight, so no complaints from me!

Tanner looked pretty fecked off at the end, you could sense he though he should have got on the pitch 2nd half

[Harry]

2 minutes ago, 2015 said:

If you can't enjoy that tonight then may as well give up going.

Thought Luton were toothless if anything and were just totally 2nd best in Midfield as Han and Scott played so well. Osho looked a decent player for them.

We were good for the 90 tonight and 2-0 flattered Luton

I did enjoy it. I really enjoyed it. Up to the point where Sykes lost his head and we needlessly gave the advantage to an awful team who we should’ve buried. 
As you say, 2-0 flattered Luton. A better team comes back and draws that tonight l. We got lucky that they were so poor 

1 minute ago, petehinton said:

Bloody hell

Yep

[Super]

Eh? They didn't score and we saw the game out. Surely the subs were spot on? Apart from a worldie from Bents late on they didn't do much.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Super

[steviestevieneville]

13 minutes ago, Harry said:

Wasn’t sure whether to stick this on the Pearson thread or the match thread but I thought I’d add a new one with a focus purely on the tactical substitutions after the red card. 
It was the most baffling set of substitutes I think I’ve ever witnessed. 
In the end; we got the win, but it was more because Luton were absolute dog-mess rather than our post-red card performance. 
 

2 main points. 
1) We have 2 specialist right backs sat on the bench. 
2) Luton’s back like were all over the place due to the fantastic runs and movement of Wells and Conway. 
 

After the red, the first thing we did was stick Scott to right wing back. That immediately surrendered the midfield. 
5 minutes later, Pearson realised this and changed it, putting Scott back in the middle and bringing Weimann to right wing back. 
 

So that was 2 changes, before any sub was made, meanwhile you still have 2 specialist right backs sat on the bench. 
 

Now the subs begin. Martin & Williams. For Wells & Conway. 
Still no sign of any of the 2 specialist right backs. We decide to take our front 3, who had been dangerous all night and had Luton soiling their pants, and we remove 2 of them from the pitch, stick the 3rd one at right back and bring on Martin. 
 

This surrendered the whole game. Our threat all night was the movement up front and getting their defence turned. What the game didn’t need was a target man. If we were to be conceding more possession and territory due to the numerical disadvantage then the one thing that would keep their defence on their toes would be the continued threat of a striker making runs behind them. They were scared all night. As soon as Martin came on their eyes lit up. Bradley knew that was much more his game, and he needn’t worry about running toward his own goal again all night. 
All it would take was a ball forward into the channel, one of Wells/Conway/Weimann to pressure the corner, win throws/corners/free kicks in the opposition half to relieve the pressure of the numerical disadvantage. 
We didn’t have anything going forward for the rest of the match. 
 

Next, another sub. Klose in, Scott off. 
Still no sign of either of the specialist right backs sat on the bench. And now, he sticks Vyner out there instead and puts Weimann back into midfield! 

Finally King comes on for Weimann. 
 

We went from threatening their back line with pace, movement, passing, with 3 willing runners up front and 2 youngsters with energy, legs and passing ability in the midfield, to a central 3 of Martin, Williams & King. Poor old Williams - we were supposed to be resting him in midweek games. He finds himself as the one expected to chase and press in the midfield, having to make a number of lengthy sprints, and at one point I thought he’d injured himself again. 
 

We took away the one thing that was threatening them all night and gave their defence an easy ride in the last half hour. We didn’t need to surrender the game like that. We could have kept at least 1 of Wells, Conway or Weimann up top to keep them on their toes and still pose a threat in behind. 
Yes it’s hard with 10. Instinct is to defend. But we didn’t need to do that. Luton were terrible. A better team comes back and draws that game tonight. 

If I’m Tanner or Wilson I’d be majorly pissed. We played 3 different right backs and used all of the subs bar those 2. The right back was sent off and we had 2 on the bench, yet somehow played 3 other players in that position within 20 minutes! 
 

I was really really enjoying that game up until the red. And then I was incredibly pissed off. First at Sykes for being an absolute dick and losing his head, and then for how we contrived to offer the game up to them with the odd substitutions. 

I’m glad Luton were so poor. And I hope they go down. A better team comes back tonight after that red. 

So you want to keep pressing high up the pitch with three strikers when we’re 2-0 up& down to ten men. They would of walked through us . For me he got it right. He didn’t rush the subs . He put a out & out defender at right back in vyner . He went 531. It was exactly the right thing to do. Straight after the sending off they started to pass through us . After the changes we blocked that off & saw the game out pretty comfortably . 

[DaveF]

1 minute ago, Super said:

Eh? They didn't score and we saw the game out. Surely the subs were spot on?

Yes but we need SOMETHING to moan about this evening.

[steviestevieneville]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

Tanner is 6ft. 
 

I’m not disagreeing with Klose coming on, my main point is that we surrendered any threat we carried, made the last 25 minutes easy for their back line, and failed to use one of 2 right backs on the bench, when our right back was sent off. 

We didn’t need to carry a threat . To keep pressing them with a man less would of played into their hands . 

[lager loud]

I partly agree with this, in that it clearly took a while before NP worked out how to change things after the red card, and it’s not clear why Wilson or Tanner couldn’t have done the RWB job.

But TC and AW were clearly running out of steam before they were taken off (TC in particular). NW, I thought, could still have done a job (but hasn’t played 90 minutes much, recently). 

And the players who did come on all did a decent (and ultimately successful) job.

It’s possible that I’m comfortable with NP ignoring the right backs on the bench because I still have occasional nightmares about the time Jimmy Lumsden decided to play Steve Neville there (in what was essentially a back two, if I remember correctly) rather than bring Andy Llewellyn off the bench.

[And Its Smith]

Bentley had one shot to save. We defended very well with 10 men. 

[Harry]

4 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

So you want to keep pressing high up the pitch with three strikers when we’re 2-0 up& down to ten men. They would of walked through us . For me he got it right. He didn’t rush the subs . He put a out & out defender at right back in vyner . He went 531. It was exactly the right thing to do. Straight after the sending off they started to pass through us . After the changes we blocked that off & saw the game out pretty comfortably . 

I never said keep all 3 on. I said one of them should have remained up top to carry a threat. We had nothing to run in behind after the red and that was our main threat and was what had their defence all over the shop. We surrendered that. It meant that we had to defend for 30 minutes as opposed to being able to turn them and have the occasional spell in their half. We got lucky because they were shit 

[Super]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

Bentley had one shot to save. We defended very well with 10 men. 

No mention of it but that save was incredible.

[StGeorge]

4 minutes ago, Super said:

No mention of it but that save was incredible.

it was a great save

[ChippenhamRed]

20 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

 

2-0 because Luton were dogmess, not because we deserved it after the red 

So you give us zero credit for seeing the game out relatively comfortably and maintaining a clean sheet despite playing 25 minutes a man down?

Weird opinion, and a weird thing to focus on after one of the most spirited performances and enjoyable games in a very long time.

[steviestevieneville]

Just now, Harry said:

I never said keep all 3 on. I said one of them should have remained up top to carry a threat. We had nothing to run in behind after the red and that was our main threat and was what had their defence all over the shop. We surrendered that. It meant that we had to defend for 30 minutes as opposed to being able to turn them and have the occasional spell in their half. We got lucky because they were shit 

We brought one of the best hold up men in the league to get us up the pitch . It was 20 minutes not 30 once we were  down to ten men we can’t press , so you want one man to run in behind . To get up the pitch you have to do it as a unit . Would you keep wells or Conway on just run around like a headless chicken. What you’re advocating is lumping it behind their back four which just surrenders possession anyway . When we did get up the pitch we played our way up. We didn’t need to carry a threat we needed a solid shape which is exactly what happened. 

[Curr Avon]

7 minutes ago, Super said:

No mention of it but that save was incredible.

And he changed direction as the ball was deflected to his left hand post. Atkinson's desire to clear the loose ball was terrific too.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Curr Avon