Nibbler

May I call it Saville's Law? - "if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will claim that his opponent condones child abuse".

Yes you can and at least one person here is guilty of invoking both Godwin's and Saville's Law. 

I know this. Along with spit roasting babies on the crusades etc etc. Difference is, it stopped. In many Muslim countries just by leaving your religion or joining another you are on a death sentence. I am purposely leaving out fundamentalist killings now, just the bare bones of a unforgiving religion. If anyone can point to another religion that does this in 2014 I'd be interested to know.

My point was that apostasy as a crime and (it's punishment) is not unique to Islam. I assume that the point you and a couple of other people are trying to make is that there is something uniquely bad or violent about Islam. My argument is that there's no real difference between the three Abrahamic religions. the problems you see are down to politics and power mongering. 

Out of interest would you say that the troubles in Ireland were caused by religion?

...but it would probably take one hell of a post-doctoral thesis to get anywhere near proving that

Perhaps you should write a grant proposal  But you make the point that the Cathar persecution was as much about politics and power as it was about religion. I agree, ditto the Reformation. Isn't it possible that the current problem with extremist Islam is about politics as well and not religion per se? 

The book looks interesting, I may take a look.

The difference being that the Christians have stopped doing it, and the Muslims haven't.

That was kind of my point, though there are some pretty scary Christians around.

 

I think it is worse though, not many other religions you can be killed for leaving,or joining another religion... unless of course that is to be interpreted differently as well

Apostasy and heresy are very much part of Christianity and the penalty is death - usually by stoning. Most of these barbaric laws and penalties come from the Old Testament you know, the OT is part of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I'm not sure exactly how many people the Inquisition burned for heresy and apostasy but it's substantial and of course the Reformation and Counter Reformation burned a fair few more here. If you're interested have a look at the history of the Cathars in France - Christianity in its full glory. Of course Christians tend to ignore the laws of the OT these days, there's no reason to believe Islam won;t do the same.

I'm not having a pop at you personally here, but a belief system based on many many interpretations, it is time people got real and understood just how bloody ridiculous it is.

That's a different argument though. I'm an atheist but I don't really see that Islam is any worse than the other Abrahamic religions, they all share a common root after all. The Old Testament is full of terrible genocidal and misogynist violence and plenty of modern day Christians interpret the Bible to suit their political agenda. 

 

We don't want to be informed about Islam 

And that says it all. Why educate yourself when you can just rant and shout ill conceived nonsense with no discernible point beyond - But I don't like it Waaaaah.  Grow up, most Muslims are just ordinary people like the rest of us, trying to get by and be left alone by the extremists (on all sides). The Quilliam group have their critics which is as it should be but they make an effort and of course they entirely falsify your argument that Muslims don't speak out about extremism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Husain

But hey why let the facts get in the way of your prejudice.

 

 

No? Any ideas why Nobbler?

You know I usually find that when people resort to childish insults they've run out of arguments - if they had any in the first place. We all know that some extremist organisations use religion to justify what they do, it's not new news and it's not exactly confined to Islam. The idea that ALL Muslims agree with them is ludicrous, of course there are organisations that oppose extremism - for instance the Quilliam foundation, I've read Ed Hussain's excellent and informative book. Perhaps you should get a bit better informed about Islam and our own history. 

It's no wonder every Muslim woman is forced to have 8 kids - there seems to be a need for a lot of virgins lately.

 

I take it that's just some more ridiculous hyperbole? Using Brunei as an example of Islam is like using The Westborough Baptists as an example of Christianity. Unscrupulous autocratic bigots have always used passages in the Bible/Koran/'holy book of choice' to justify their actions, it's not exactly new news. Try reading Wolf Hall if you wan an insight into the horrors of Christianity mixed with politics. The good old CoE hasn't turned out so bad and I don't suppose modern Islam will either.