Fuber

Someone's had one too many.

They weren't the cheap option for the most part. That's the problem. That's why we are, where we are.

Ultimately this 1000%. No matter how free Ashton and LJ were with respect to wage spending. The buck to reign them in was with the Chairman, who is SL's own son, who clearly took his eye off the ball and let MA run roughshod over the operation. The issue is, and it's been the same across the last 20 years, the sheer lack of competent direction and appointments from the top down. You can have all the money in the world. But if it leaves the club unsustainable, in debt, and/or fails. It's not the owner who picks up the eventual bill in the end. It's the fans. I'm actually doubtful. Reading and a handful of others, possibly, but I don't think many clubs were near our sheer level of ineptitude regarding wages to turnover.

Interest Millsy mentions Wrigley. Seemed to hold him in really high opinion with regards to So'tons youth setup.

Mark Ashton. End of Story. Spent money for the sake of it to benefit his agent connections.

Comes down to concentration. Plain and simple, and it's the fault of many when stepping up to Championship level imo. Again at PL being another step.

Made the point on another thread but. Having Semeno link well and take on his man, made me realise how poor Andi has been with regards to his general play the last 5 or so games, irrespective of goals. May very well be he just needs a rest but, was seeming invisible for huge parts of the game today. Once Tanner is fit, if we could play Antoine, Scott, Martin, that could be something to keep an eye on. Would then be a case of Martin leaving end of season, and possibly getting a new target man, more mobile maybe - if - we can get rid of some deadwood.

Huh. Almost as if we've had to ruthlessly cut wages as much as possible due to an incompetent CEO: shunting up wages to turnover 50% over the course of his period in charge while performances became worse the more of the formers signings were introduced, the club struggling to remain within FFP, same CEO who over his tenure then also butchered our medical, fitness, and scouting departments, which are still or are going to need to be resolved over the course of this season, and possibly next. A CEO whose only benefit is his negotiating skills when selling a player. Nah, definitely couldn't correlate.

I'd have given Weimann a poorer rating than Martin on today's showing. Invisible near most of the game aside from the cutback for Martins missed chance, was a step off the pace the entire 90. As others mention, if Antoine was match fit I reckon Martin would've gone off for Wells.

They've been run like a circus for years and Kenwright is completely detached from the fans. I'm not commenting on other fans actions, as like us this season, it's from the outside looking in. We may not know all the details, ergo I can't criticise their fans, when it's their money and their choice.

Relative, I consider them to be different players. And there are other players I would shift before Massengo, especially in respect of wages. Ideally, with the current squad, we need another right back as Vyner simply is not the answer in that role and Simpson is done. Tanner injured has highlighted this. DaSilva and Palmer need selling to free up wages, period. May be we look to the loan market to allow scouting to take place and recruit in summer. Kalas I could see leaving to free up wages, which if combined with the former two, hopefully we can shift Wells even at a discount to free up a further £25kpw - gives us circa £70kpw, which when budgeted is three £1m signings at £8-10kpw wages, and maybe a loan or two. I think we need to keep Massengo as we know he can actually perform at this level. Depends on contract negotiations. If it's not looking good then he's going to have to be sold in the summer anyway.

Just to check Harry, three of the five I specifically quoted, as they played for us primarily at Championship level and we're all decently over the age of 30 when we let them go. In theory Wilbs did also play a role keeping us up the first season. So could count as four of the five. The issue with the older players signed since is that our Fitness, Conditioning, and Medical under Rolls' was a car crash. It's multiple areas that failed under LJ and Ashton's tenure. See O'Neill's injury treatment - we basically ended his career.

The start of the 'collapse' was LJ himself. He thought he was Guardiola and tried tinkering counter each and every opposition he faced. Even when he stumbled onto the idea of Reid as a pressng forward or as he put it the 'double false nine' with Pato, the second Diedhiou was back, Pato was shipped to LM, Reid to CAM, collapse occurred as he did what LJ alway did when we started losing. The tombola came out again. Huge initial investment kept momentum in his first two seasons, the issue was once we started selling. LJ went for options, plural, instead of faith in a like-for-like replacmemt. I.e. Weimann, Palmer, and Watkins were signed when Reid was sold. Moore was recalled after we sold Flint, we also signed Kalas and Webster. It's not the fees that screwed us, it was wages. Kalas and Webster may have worked, but Flint was on his extended contract at the point so, circa £10kpw, wages of the former two we were likely around £30kpw. Weimann, Palmer, Watkins probably around £35kpw to replace Reid's 6kpw (L1?) deal. Add that to poor punts on decent wages such as Djuric, Engvall, Tomlin. Put another way, aside from loans out, we bought in 17 players between 2018-20. In the same period, we sold 7.

Hartley, Odemwingie, Cisse, Wade Elliott, Wilbraham. Can and has worked for us jn days past as much as against us. The issue, is that like most signings, due diligence did not occur (under MA, period), and at the point we signed Simpson, Hunt was playing pretty damn badly. I can understand NP punting on one of his (former) most consistent 6.5/10 performer at Leicester as emergency cover, the bad decision in this case was the extension, while injured, at the age of 34 going on 35.

Need more of the ilk to be honest. League professionals who have both played in, and not played, in PL.

One reason. Andrew Roll's medical team. Ever since he was appointed in 2018 till he left this summer, injuries under LJ, DH, and NP were measurable. Add to that his records at Watford and Arsenal. It very well could not be his fault. But there's a definite correlation.

On this note - I think it has to be said - Fairplay to Nige. For all the talk that LJ gave younger players a chance and we profited, the only one who wasn't playing first team football at the point he introduced them to the squad was Kelly(?) unless I'm mistaken. Not countin Brownhill as he knew him before he joined us. To take the risk implenting and trusting two academy players on the right hand side - never mind on the pitch at the same time - could've been pretty huge if it backfired, both against Blackburn and again today. It did not. ? Both of them heart-on-sleave stuff and repaying NP's trust. Back the process.

Coppell had a track record of being out of and in love with football before Reading. Nige was a risk with the real battering he took from CoVID the first time around. SL's problem is that he only goes for the big appointment when the backend (finances, directors) is completely ****ed.

Wouldn't surprise me if it turns out to be health it would be mutual.

That was Steve Walsh. Shakespeare was his assistant at Leicester and Hull.

Thats a very good coup for them.

Disagree. Everyone says that in regards to FFP his hands are tied. True he is. However as the founder of a financial sector firm, the the fact Ashton and LJ were able to stack the club with rising wages and a bloated squad, falls directly his purview. He's in this position due to his own lack of oversight of the football club he owns. Ashton was his appointment. This is, it's not even the first time this has happened under his watch, the whole relegation after Coppell came down to wage spending cuts and awful appointments (Millen (the assistant of the stale regime), McInnes (the manager people wanted to work), over a four year period. The rot started back in 2018 with regards to our rising wage costs and only got worse, we're three years in. We once again have a squad that aren't good enough. Non-existent coaching. Poor recruitment. Toxic Culture. All roads point to League One again. He just isn't learning. He needs to appoint a competent football operations director onto the board who can then refer to the former and discuss an overarching strategy, and go from there. Not someone like Ashton who completely failed previously at this level with Watford, comprehensively.

On paper, the best to get something out of this squad, with the current players available, is someone who can run 3atb. That leaves Chris Wilder or Ryan Lowe. Will either join us? Unlikely.

Most of the players havent been good enough for three years in some cases under 3 managers, and 4 assistants despite having 'talent' in this squad.

Not buying whatever you're selling. I think it seems more the case that evidently, with the second bout of COVID and missing the match today - it may have more to do with his health rather than him simply being here for a payday, I don't think the latter is true at all. It needs to be pointed out that, he could have quite easily walked come the end of the season - but he saw a project that he really wanted to work with (god knows how) - and his reputation from his time at Leicester would have remained mostly untarnished ahoc his spell at Watford. He's done work where he can with regards to recruitment (Tanner, Atkinson), and Medical (Rennie). If he only wanted the money, he would have never stepped in here back after Holden's sacking - could have just waited for another PL gig to come aorund from a club in trouble, Villa, Norwich, among others as examples. Really, really, want it to work; but I think akin to O'Driscoll, there's simply too much for one manager to sort from the ground up in such a short space of time without impacting performances on the pitch; it may be easier for us to poach another manager (and ergo coaching staff) from a manager already in employment - but that costs money. Can we even afford that under FFP?