Slacker

I am not singling out horseracing when I assume a lack of transparency. It is a generilalisation of most businesses. Where I work we are audited several times a year.It is a very different place during the audits.Why would a business present their darker side knowing the criticism it will attract and possible loss of business? As you point out,and I have admitted, I know nothing about the ins and outs of horseracing.If I went to a stable,I wouldn’t know what to look for.I wouldn’t know what to ask.I certainly wouldn't expect the owner of the business to change his practices to suit my beliefs.Do you think he would listen to me and then make adjustments that would affect his livelihood? It was an interesting comment the owner of the horse that was destroyed made about the horses being unsettled due to the protest.Food for thought for the protesters. I don't pretend to have all the answers.Is the whip entirely necessary? Do they horses have to go over jumps,and do the jumps have to be so high?I don't know.I am fairly sure though that if I engaged with the owners/ trainers etc they wouldn't remove the fences and stop the jockeys from using the whip.You are much more informed about this,so playing Devils Advocate,what could I realistically hope to achieve if I went to a stable with a genuinely open mind?

I replied to your comment about engaging with the industry. I said I wouldn't expect to get an accurate (warts and all) insight from owners,trainers etc that make their livelihood from horseracing.You are going to be shown and told what they want you to see.Pretty much like any business.

Bit disappointed that Colin hasn't had more mentions.

I assure you that I have not intended to be flippant.I am also not sure what you think I have ignored. Regarding your link,you are absolutely right that I glanced at it and closed it.As a dog owner,I don't want to read anything relating to dog fights.Should I speak to the people involved. Would they tell me how well they look after their dogs and that dogs fight in the wild?Your posts mostly consist of saying talk to the people who make their living in horse racing and they will tell you what a great job they do.

And again the deflection. But who knows,if you spoke to the owners of the dogs and organisers of the fights,they might tell you that dogs fight in the wild and that they love and look after their dogs.After all,why would they lie?

Nope.I pointed out clearly in my first response to this thread that I know absolutely nothing about horses or horse racing.In all honesty though if I was to engage with stable owners,trainers etc,I wouldn’t particularly expect a warts and all account.

You seem to be deliberately trying to muddy the waters.You are constantly going off on tangents.The thread is about The Grand National and horse welfare and you just keep trying to blindside it with other "facts".

I meant the comparison between horses being forced to race/jump,and adults choosing to fight each other Rob.In answer to your question, I have no idea what goes through a horses mind as it approaches a fence.Just because it does what it has been trained to do doesn't necessarily mean that is what it wants to do.

Why are you constantly ignoring the entire concept of consent?

Thanks for the link.An interesting albeit sad article that certainly opened my eyes to a few things.

Animals can and often are made to do things against their will.I don't know for sure but I would assume that a horse trained from an early age could effectively be forced to jump against it's will. I would assume that a horse with an unseated rider would continue to run as that is what it has been trained (brainwashed) to do.Either that or maybe it is just following the rest of the pack? Horses getting injured while running or jumping of their own free will is not exactly the same thing is it? Again the rest of your reply is just deflecting from the original point.I accept that you are much more knowledgeable than me in this subject so I would like to ask a genuine question.If a pet horse suffered the same injury as a racehorse,would it be able to be treated by a vet or would it still have to be destroyed?For example could a broken leg be fixed if the owner/insurance would pay for it?

Sorry mate I don't really understand your response. I wouldn’t class my dislike of the treatment of racehorses as an "agenda".I will happily listen to Spudski's point of view,that is why I responded to him.My point is that he is going off on tangents to try to justify his argument.I believe the points he is making are irrelevant to the original thread. Please explain what you feel my agenda is, as I don't think I would class my thoughts as an agenda.

Spudski.I will be the first to admit that I know nothing about the horse racing industry, but how can you compare what consenting adults choose to do with what animals are forced to do?Also what does the actions of third world farmers have to do with a gambling business thousands of miles away?You obviously know more about what goes on in horse racing than me but your comparisons are doing absolutely nothing to help your argument.

I really can't see how people can honestly not see past their own interests and see the bigger picture regarding the horses welfare.Genuinely disappointing reading some of the attitudes here.If you are willing to support this unnatural and unnecessary suffering to animals for your entertainment and possible financial advantage,at least be honest with yourselves about what you are a part of.

Can you go and start watching R*vers?

I read that Nige is keen to keep King as he is involved with coaching as well as playing.

I was indeed there.What an amazing night.Not having a pop at anyone but can't understand why some people think being in the Prem is the be all and end all.The celebrations with the players after were absolutely fantastic.

Third time lucky for me today. Quite a tricky one though. Might bust a few streaks.

Another tough one today.Got it fifth attempt.

Hard to imagine anyone following Geoff and commanding a fraction of the respect and admiration he receives.It will be a sad day when he hangs up the mic. Enjoy your retirement fella.

Real shame that this game is clashing with the Champions league games.I love watching the Lionesses but I think I will go for the Man City game.Hopefully I will be able to catch up with this somewhere tomorrow.

Just looked it up.I must have heard the saying from somewhere but I didn't know what it meant.

Got it last go.No idea how!I am going to Google it now to see what the hell it means.

First three.Last chance saloon!

I am still trying to complete it.Got the first and third letter on the first guess.I am now on my fifth attempt with still just those two letters. I will let you know later if I crack it or not!