Gene Hunt

He had two positions, RB and CB. it's fair to say he's clearly a better CB, but still you expect him to do a job there

If expect to be able to do a job, but not to be consistently good like he was in the middle.

Of course not. With all this SOD vs SC crap going on I think we're all missing the point here, the players are the ones who should be getting a lot of the slack, that's now two managers they've underperformed for.

Look at the defending for the goals against Sheff Utd, completely comical. Especially the 3rd goal..

Also no ones mentioned since Osbourne has got a contract he's been dreadful..

Osbourne has played about 0 minutes in his position...

Is 2 wins in 12 acceptable?

Yes SOD was not inept by bringing in Harewood and Shorey was he? 2 wins out of 18 a disgrace of a stat.

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT COTTERILL.

Full marks for perseverance but wrong again.

 

SC has 17 points from 14 games which pro rata is 56 over a full season and comfortably enough to stay up.

 

Unfortunately he is still clawing us away from the position he inherited, unless you think he is somehow to blame for SOD's record which incidentally was a pro rata equivalent of 36 points and relegation by a country mile.

 

Or to put it another way, SC accumulates 55% more points per game than SOD.

 

Other than the "we would have won a game eventually" argument, I fail to see how anyone can criticize SC yet defend SOD.

 

Because the performances under SC are worse. Especially now the initial honeymoon period is over.

 

Some more statistics for you to add to your list there.

We are no further away from the bottom of the table than under SOD yet now have a worse goal difference.

SC has only bettered the result achieved by SOD in one game since coming here. The 3-1 win over Orient.

SC has shown himself to be inept in the transfer market, El Abd having contributed to the destruction of what was beginning to look like a solid defence.

 

In all honesty, this has nothing to do with SOD (AGAIN) simply, that SC is not good enough. I'm not pining for the reinstatement of SOD, he's gone and I'm over it. I just don't like seeing false claims plastered over the internet as some kind of justification for the very poor manager we have now.

Not meant to be semantic.

 

Depends on how you are defining coach. I see it as out on the training pitch, teaching, tactics maybe.

 

Management on the other hand is people skills, leadership, inspirational qualities.

 

If SOD was good at both we wouldn't have been headed for a second relegation.

 

Equally if Cotterill was good at both we wouldn't be heading for a second relegation? I mean, the bloke clearly can't coach.

Ah yes, the Bristol City managers job and the Liverpool managers job. They are both jobs, and that's where the similarities end.

7th is hardly a great finish for Liverpool, missing out on Europe alltogether. They could've fired Rodgers on the back of that, others have certainly been given their marching orders for a lot less.

I'm fact Dalglish was given his marching orders for a similar finish a League Cup trophy and an FA cup final only the year before.

Rodgers had a shaky start, the first 5 games or so, then he got his act together, bought some great players like Sturridge and finished 7th.

SOD on the other hand, had a shaky 8 months, bought in some tripe like harewood and shorey and played a big part in our relegation (where I still blame Mciness, but SOD hardly helped)

If Rodgers won 3 games in 27 would he still be in the Liverpool job??

Probably not, but he was given another window to bring in players like Coutinho and Sturridge. Players who's careers had stalled at arguably bigger clubs.

Liverpool won more points from January to the end of the season last term than most other teams in the Prem yet still only finished seventh. That's the point, he started badly and results weren't good enough but instead of panicking he was given time because performances suggested the team would improve. Sean's results were shite but performances were getting there and with time there is a realistic argument (especially when using the BR comparison) that his ethos could still have kicked in with his young squad.

Many Liverpool fans were not taken with BR immediately and it took boardroom strength to ensure he had the time to implement his theories and ideas on the team over an extended period to see the results.

Sod didn't really get that and often it takes a lot of time for a manager who aims at long term success to bring the squad up to speed tactically. SC is a short term manager by his own admission but still isn't bringing the side up to speed tactically.

No he wasn't.

Yes he was.

Would BR still be Liverpool manager if this season he won 2 out of his first 18 games? No is the answer.

He was in the relegation zone at the start of last season. He was given time to implement the fundamental change of ethos following Hodgson and Dalglish and Liverpool are now reaping the rewards playing the best attacking football in the country.

Liverpool are a lesson in patience.

His style is somewhat similar to Cotterill's. He also appears to be just as good at winning friends and influencing people. Not a winner at anything in my opinion.

Apart from making a financial killing no matter how bad a job he does... He's a winner at that, like Cowell.

Now that is a statement where thousands of people would disagree.

And if you listen to a lot of the views spouted at Ashton Gate on a Saturday you'll come to realise the there are thousands of not very clued up fellas knocking about...

Some of the most knowledgeable people I've ever met when it comes to football rate Pack highly. I'll stick with their views over the majority down AG.

The SOD fans love to tell everyone how he only lost won game in seven, this was the one game he lost in that time, Christ he should of sacked 5 minutes after that game the performance was so horrendous.

It had nothing on Rotherham.

If you want to use a circus analogy I would suggest that the clowns at Bristol City are the ones who lace up their boots every week. But at least with a circus clown you get a performance worthy of the name every time. Our clowns decide for themselves when they can be "bothered" to put it in. Nothing to lose away game at third in the league? Yes, I'll give that one a go. Tough relegation six pointer away to in form side? No thanks, too much like hard work to give the 900 travelling fans a performance.

The likes of Moore, El Terribly Bad, Flint, Osbourne, Pack, Gillette and Barnett must be laughing their socks off at how they escape the flak whilst Cotterill, Baldock (the one player above all others who puts it in every week whatever you think of his wages and finishing) and JET cop for the lot from you people on here.

Not the worst post ever but Pack? Pack is a quality player and has been good for us, much like Skuse before him an important part of this team.

I never said SC was ever the answer, just pointed out that he would have to go some to have a record as bad as the previous manager.

Which is irrelevant and not a justifiable defence of cotterill, about whom this thread is...

How on earth is it irrelevant?

Are you serious Super? SOD is the past, Cotterill should be analysed on his own terms and his own actions.

The timing of SOD's sacking was shoddy, above all else it has left the next manager open to criticism as people can argue we had turned the corner. However, his tenure should be seen as a failure (even if it could be argued that with time it might have been better) and it is judged as a failure on its own merits not with comparisons to Del.

Cotterill should be judged the same way. So I ask those 4 questions again.

I like this fact quite a lot, 3 wins in 27.. SC has already 5 wins and he's only been here 3 months, it's hardly glittering form but facts are facts SC is a better manager than SOD is for this club. SOD might write excellent programme notes, but results wise probably our worst ever manager.

If you're going to include Tamworth in Cotterill's results then you have to include the cup wins under SOD which take his winning tally to 6.

Next.

Just remind me what position we were when SOD left? I will remind you he won 2 league games out of 18.

And I'll remind you that that is irrelevant.

Ignore SOD. Completely. Assess Cotterill individually without comparison.

Has he been successful in the transfer market?

Does he know his best team?

Have we been better organised at the back?

Have we created as many chances?

Cotterill is not a winner. He is a failure.

Just nonsense. He won 2 out of 18 league games. He failed to beat such teams at home like Shrewsbury and Colchester.

And until Cotterill plays those teams we won't know the progress will we? This isn't about SOD, it's about the fact that we are worse than at any point this season under Cotterill.

At the start of the season we would lose games because of individual errors, coming away from games bemoaning bad luck as we had played well but not scored the goals or kept the clean sheet. Now we are getting outplayed for the majority of games. Our performances are WORSE and that is a suitable measure.

Right, so someone who has a much better record than our last manager is moving us backwards??

Again, as I like this fact quite a lot. The Leyton Orient game has been the only fixture where SC has bettered the result of the previous manager in the previous fixture.

SOD didn't have the pleasure of playing Stevenage and the Walsall game was as much to do with a honeymoon period as anything else.

Assessing where we are right now, we are worse. Defensively we have fallen apart. We aren't scoring as many goals, our previously good goal difference is disappearing which could have been worth something come the seasons end.

Cotterill is failing and the fact that the only defence people can (falsely) come up with is he is better than the previous guy is testament to that.

He was sacked because of his horrendous record. I can only think the people who said he was beginning to turn it around weren't at the Sheffield home game.

Is that the one where we should have been out of sight and Shef created one chance to win it at the death?

It would appear the regression from that point is considerable...

I think you're exaggerating a bit there GH. He's actually overseen more wins than the past manager and 12 days ago oversaw a 3-1 away victory at a top club.

 

I'm not defending the performance at Sheffield U. It's unacceptable.

 

My first post, where you fixated on the SOD reference, was to say I don't think anyone should read too much into interviews given directly after football matches. I thought that under O'Driscoll and I think that now.

 

Trying to pick out phrases as sticks to beat the manager is a bit sad, frankly.

 

Equally, the Orient game was the only one which Cotterill has bettered the result achieved by SOD... Sean didn't get the pleasure of playing Stevenage. 

I don't disagree that it is a bit sad, but he doesn't help himself at all (Neither did SOD, who said things that would only piss some people off) and as Harry said earlier in this thread, the soundbites and interviews (Written and spoken) are the only way we can gauge a managers personality. I know that many will be like me and find unwarranted arrogance a major turn off with regard to liking a manager's personality. There's nothing worse than hearing that kind of self-adulation when quite frankly his performance at this club and the two previous clubs he has been at have resulted in vast mocking from their supporters and an unpopular legacy. 

 

I just wanna be clear with this, I wasn't at all enthused by his appointment, but I have actually liked some of what I've heard from Cotterill. However, judging him at this point there is nothing I would argue that he is 'succeeding' at. His transfer activity has been abysmal, his coaching has had no effect (If anything many aspects of the team have looked to be going backwards, under SOD it was individual errors that were costing us games having played well as a unit for the majority of games. Under Cotterill we're getting torn apart much more and defensively are an absolute shambles.) and tactically he still doesn't have the foggiest idea what his best team is. If we ignore SOD comparisons, personality and reputations from before (Which I admittedly have not done much) Cotterill is failing miserably here already and does not appear to be a good fit for BCFC at all.

It may be easy to deride Cotterill over his 'I'm a winner' comment, but the message he was giving out was 'I ain't standing for that shit from one of my teams', which is actually quite refreshing to hear from a manager in this day and age. He looked genuinely angry at what he'd witnessed, which is no different from any of us who travelled up there and how we all felt watching it.

Whether he has the capability or the right mentality in his squad to avoid such an abject performance from happening again is questionable though.

Well he's stood for that shit in nearly every performance since he has been here.... I don't expect any change.

Yes loads but have you made a post that has not been negative ever?

I was merely responding to other assertions made on this thread - assertions that loads of supporters don't agree with. As I've said repeatedly the SOD v SC debate is tired and boring.

What matters is where we go from here. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Other than my thread about Jay?

I have plenty of thoughts about where we go. This season is a write-off now... I don't think I'd keep Cotterill next season regardless of our league status, his signings have been poor, his coaching appears to be failing based on the evidence of our worsening performances and shambolic defending and I genuinely don't see him taking us up next season, which has to be the aim.

I'd invest in a proven coach. Someone who has a track record of improving players. I'd set out a long term plan that I would stick to no matter what pain it causes in the short term, I'd actually utilise the scouting networks available and bring in as many cheap lower league players as I could and get them coached to a high level.

In terms of keeping us up this season?

I'd like to see us get our best players playing with freedom to express themselves. I'd let our younger players play as much as possible because their attitudes have put many of the experienced players in our squad's to shame. Louis would be in the side ahead of Flint and El Abd but behind Williams and Osbourne.

Those are things id like to see, past that all I know is what's going on now is unacceptable and the new manager has not improved us at all, results or performances.

Bit like Sean in that respect then Harry. Can't remember him coming out and saying he'd mucked up after his many losses. However I can recall him using the wind as an excuse on one occasion.

Tbh anyone's a mug who reads too much into these post match interviews. Before managers have time to get their heads together and really analyse the game, they have a mic pushed in their face and told to fill 5 minutes of airtime.

I thought that during the scathing examinations on here of O'Driscoll's interviews too.

Have you made a post in the last 3 months that doesn't bring up O'Driscoll?