GBF

One of my favourite away games following City. Couldn’t believe we scored six to clinch promotion and followed it up with eight against Walsall.  Great team to watch and the only time I have seen City win a league title.

IMO a real shame for the match going fan

On 05/03/2024 at 22:13, ChippenhamRed said:

I guess my threshold for hating everything is just a bit higher than yours Andy.

On 10/03/2024 at 15:16, cotswoldred2 said:

Some of you should question your suitability in calling yourselves City supporters. 

Cynical doesn't even come close...miserable lot.

On 10/03/2024 at 16:08, Atlanta_Red said:

It was really depressing for me under Pulis. 

Everyone reading this thread probably has a reason for thinking they are deserving of having their support for our club recognised in some way. 
whilst all our circumstances are different we have invested emotional energy in supporting a poorly run club whose successes are minimal.

Like many I feel badly let down this year by our complete incompetence and have deliberately not renewed yet, but I will probably end up renewing my season ticket before the deadline   The sad thing is even if we get rid of Manning I can’t think of anyone we could realistically recruit who is more likely to be succeed than Nigel  . It just seems so ridiculous to have let him go during a period where slow progress was being made

my personal view of rewards would be that if you buy a season ticket and can’t attend a  game and give your seat back to the Club to sell for that game and if that match is available to view on Robins Tv you should see it for free on Robins tv That would help everyone who can’t get to a game they have paid for wherever they live 

58 minutes ago, Edgy Red said:

Ok, (i know i'm stupid) i'm going to respond.

Results and performances under Manning have been VERY mixed, but if we're all being honest, it was no different during Nige's 3 years in charge.

I have no idea how things are going to pan out under Manning but he deserves a summer to recruit some of his own players. If after 15 games next season there is no obvious improvement then questions can be asked, but give the guy a f****** chance!

He has been on the back foot with many fans since day one, but he's trying his best and deserves our support. Lets get behind the team and support the football club, and not individuals.

Agree with getting behind the team but you must be joking about letting Manning or any other possession  based coach build a squad for a suicide mission in this division for Bcfc. It’s not Manning there isn’t a coach who could make that work with our budget in this division .

7 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

Some of you should question your suitability in calling yourselves City supporters. 

Cynical doesn't even come close...miserable lot.

With the greatest respect you are entitled to your opinion but as a City fan of  50 years I’ve felt disillusioned a few times but only depressed twice supporting City and it was under Holden and under Manning. IMO  I think you view Is out of touch with how the majority feel and I am genuinely considering whether I will renew my season ticket if SL doesn’t appoint someone who is competent and qualified to run the football club 

8 hours ago, Ian M said:

Awesome init. Don’t know why there’s so many dissenting voices.

 

On the positive side  7 of our remaining games are against teams in the bottom 10 in form.!,

41 minutes ago, 38MC said:

That I can agree with.

What I can’t is that giving Manning time and money can do no harm.

It will leave us with a really disjointed squad for one as he tries to integrate new signings used to his system with the existing players who aren’t capable of it. We’ll have the worst mish-mash. 

Agree it would be.mad  to invest in a manager who is totally unproven 

This game is a reflection of the gulf between the Championship and the Premier League. Something needs to be done to level up financials.  otherwise we are going to get into a situation where every year the promoted teams come straight back down and the relegated teams go straight back up

15 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

The real question is why wasn’t Nige going to be offered a new contract, considering he has done everything that has been asked of him to that point?

Why didn’t they trust Nige and Phil Alexander to get on with using some of the Scott money to invest in players?

How did they manage to lose 2 men with over 60 years’ worth of top football experience, including time at the highest level, in the space of just over a month?

Why did they think that they could cope without that experience? Was it arrogance or ignorance?

Why did they appoint an inexperienced League 1 coach with no actual success, but one sacking in just over 2 years, to replace Nige?

Why was Tinnion elevated from Head of the Academy to Head of Recruitment and then to Technical Director, when his only period as a manager ended after just over a season in League 1 with us and in failure? 

How did we end up with a “board” that has only 2 people, one of whom is the son of the owner and the other was the Bristol Sport accountant? Why were all of the other board members removed over time and not replaced?

All of these questions would help explain why we find ourselves in the position we do now, with a team in a terrible run of form, playing some of the dullest football ever witnessed at Ashton Gate, from a Head Coach who is out of his depth, appointed by people who think they know more about professional football than they really do.

Wouldn’t it be nice to have these questions answered publicly 

2 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

I honestly don’t think they will act before it’s too late. That would be an admission of failure on their part. So is there a real risk that we could go down? Under Manning and the hierarchy at the club, absolutely. And if not this season, then next looks even more of a struggle if Manning stays.

Look how Burnley have struggled under Konpany in the Premier League. This way of playing needs considerably better players than the opposition, which actually means it’s not easily transferable without considerable investment, potentially more than a club can actually afford without significant additional financial means, either being owned by a Petrostate or in the Championship, parachute payments.

Exactly my thoughts. This style / strategy of playing is not suited to ourselves. I think this point is more important than who the manager is.  Every time we have a player good enough to be in a Top Championship team or lower Premier team we sell them and therefore this style will never work for us. You have to have the best players in the League to play this way. 

We could waste a lot of money this summer acquiring players to play a style of football that is virtually guaranteed to fail whoever is managing the club.
 

Man City have some of the  best players in the world and even with them their games are often a hard watch despite the obvious skill

without top players this style results in backward or sideways passing in your own half as we have all seen recently  It won’t work even with Pep in charge of our squad and attendances at matches will fall very quickly 

Brighton are the best example of a non top Club adopting this style  However I don’t think they would have got the Premier League if they had tried to do that in the Championship without the extra budget you get from parachute payments   They were able to adapt in the Premier League due to a first class recruitment team using their competitive advantage (wages+ access to Premier League) to pull from other European Leagues and the Championship.

Burnley are heading for less points in the Premier League this season under Kompany than they got with Dyche when they were last relegated.  The style doesn’t work without the best players even with a good manager  No doubt Burnley will be OK again next season playing in the Championship but assuming they get promoted again they will have to change style to have a chance of staying up

We MUST NOT Invest in the Manning project. He may or may not be the right person but his strategy of playing is not suited to our budget and is guaranteed to fail and bore us all on match days during the experiment 

8 minutes ago, Fuber said:

He was getting what he could out of a limited squad with limited sometimes curtailed investment while reducing the wage bill from the eye watering £35m per annum under LJ and MA.

No other manager, available freely or who would come to us, has his squad building and infrastructure skills. He deserved a proper CEO (Alexander) to help support him, proper recruitment, and not Tinnion sticking his d*** in the pie.

As for the bit in bold - reread my post. Where have I said the football was brilliant. Sh** attempt deflection at best. Give me some real counterpoints otherwise why post.

Who do we get that's better that would work with these amateurs in these constraints like NP did.

That’s the problem going forward. We aren’t going to get anyone better than NP. It’s depressing that we needlessly sacked him. 

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Trying to find a reason for us to sit in the pouring rain for almost 2 hours yesterday was very difficult! After warming up and drying up in the sports bar at half time the kids did not want to return to the game. Had to convince them by finding alternative seats. 

Sheffield United last season was horrendous weather but the kids didn't mind as it was a good game and a good performance. 

Yep I'm only going out of habit now really. As games are now easily available to watch online then I'm going to seriously consider not renewing. 

Could have a nice holiday abroad for a grand. I make sacrifices so I can go to games either financially or by turning other things down cos I'm going to games. 

At this moment in time I have zero interest in attending the Swansea game at mid day on a Sunday. 

 

4 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

I agree and disagree.

Hear me out. 

I was not a Pearson fan, never warmed to him. Respected the job he done, but never felt like we would achieve anything. I kind of feel he done the job he was tasked to do, but I was not sorry to see him go. I don't think we would have ever progressed with Nige at the helm. That said, I don't think we would be playing like a team in free fall. Pearson was the right man at the right time, but in my eyes, he would have never been the man to get us promoted.

Now, I was and am willing to give Liam Manning a clean slate, it was a big task, and wanted to give him time to get the players to adapt to his football and make changes he saw fit, however, what I've seen in the last 3 games, the bloke is sleep walking us to relegation. He may have his own ideas and may want us to play a certain way, but it doesn't suit this group of players, so his changes need to be filtered in over time, if he continues to ignore what is blatantly obvious and continues to make players play a way that they physically can't and look more lost than bo peeps sheep, then he is either way too arrogant or tactically clueless. Whichever it is, Manning Ball has to go on the back burner. That's not to say long term it may not suit us better with his own squad, but with this squad we'll be in league one quicker than Brian Tinnion leaves Twitter again.....

Manning may come good, but what he is doing is absolutely soul destroying and unless he wakes up fast and see's that, then he has to go.

It's very quickly showing that Manning was not the answer, but neither was keeping Pearson long term in my eyes.

It's very well known, I liked Lee Johnson and gave him more time and patience than most, and I try to be fair to every manager and give them time, but for me, I just don't see Manning adapting and I have no faith in his football with this group of players.

I don't know enough as to what BT does, and the role he has at this club, but this was his decision. Not so much the departure of Pearson, which I can understand, albeit for me, I would have allowed Nige to see out his contract and thanked him for his time and leadership, but stated that we wanted to bring in someone younger with fresher ideas. Nige was pushing for a new contract he was never going to get. I think the club got it wrong. They should have said, that they thanked Nige for the job he done, but they wanted to change things at the end of the season and even asked Nige to help with the process of finding a new manager, even maybe offering Nige a role upstairs, those are things I feel we could have and probably should have done. But for me, Nige would not have ever taken us up, he suited the job he was tasked to do, not the task for the next man.

However, Liam Manning is not looking like he's the man for anything. 

I personally feel we have to act now, for the sake of the club. Tinnion and Manning have to go. SL and JL have taken their eye off the ball, and allowed someone completely unqualified and out of his depth to run the footballing side of the club and they have failed abysmally. Manning was Tinnion's appointment, and the buck stops with him. If Manning is not the answer, then Tinnion has to go as well. If Tinnion is not the answer, then Manning as his man has to go.

That said, bringing Nige back is not the answer also.

There's 12 games left, we can go back to basics and pick up enough points to stay up (we shouldn't even be looking at that scenario!) and evaluate at the end of the season and look to bring in the right man. 

Myself, for the sake of 12 games, I would give Andy King the player manager role, but he should not be a consideration for the permanent managers post. It's just about getting to the summer in the Champioonship.

But if Lansdown doesn't step in and end this nightmare that is rapidly imploding on us, then he has completely lost me. I've no qualms about JL being our chairman, he is only doing as his Dad has asked him to do. But if SL has any respect for the fans, desire for this club to be successful and wants to keep his legacy of this club with any degree of purpose, then Monday morning Tinnion and Manning have to be relived of their duties and this route must NEVER be explored again. 

Bring in a proper CEO, a proper Director of Football, and employ someone who has been successful at this level. If he is unwilling to do this, then in my opinion, he is WORSE than the problem that has been created.

Thanks for your well balanced reply. It is about opinions and I respect yours.   For what it is worth IMO we are more likely to get to Premiership with someone Managing us that has experience of managing at that level and has taken a team up there

Please could you direct the conversation more towards the stewardship of the Club  rather than the merits of the current Manager. How do Season Ticket holders or genuine fans influence better decision making on appointing future Managers / Head Coach/ DOF.   Is there a role for the supporters trust in future appointments?   Only BCFC could appoint Dean Holden and Liam Manning with the aim of getting into the Premiership. 

On 26/02/2024 at 09:27, robinforlife2 said:

Pearson was no better and we were equally as inconsistent. Sacking Manning to bring back Pearson would be like swapping Pasta for Spaghetti, it won't achieve anything and will just be exactly the same, only look a little different. 

After today do you still think this?  I think Manning clearly lacks the experience and skills to get the best out of this squad. The longer LM is here the worse it will get whereas with NP the longer he was here the better it would get

Given there seems to be a consensus that we are going backwards. What are the possible solutions that the current Board might sanction to make things better?

1 minute ago, Banjo Island said:

Best post of the weekend oxo

I think we are all in agreement 

2 hours ago, PFree said:

So, this Season is all but over, and it’s highly unlikely we will do anything other than finish mid-table.  When I hear all this from Sid and Lansclown about having a Top-Six side and understanding recruitment needs, I just wonder how many players the fans feel are capable of being part of a side who could push for promotion next season?

For me, players capable of being part of a promotion challenging season:

Max O’Leary - yes, but needs competition.

Ross McCrorie - yes, one of our own fighters with a strong will to win, also capable.

Cameron Pring - yes, a player who regularly shows signs of quality and who could play higher if he could stay fit.

Kal Naismith- yes, not sure what has happening but showed really quality when he did have a run in the team.

Rob Atkinson - yes, but sadly I feel injuries will always play a part in his career.

Matty James - yes, I would offer him one more season as we don’t heat have a player capable of replacing him.

Joe Williams - no, has played well since “playing for a new contract” but whilst he looks special on times, lacks consistency.

Harry Cornick - no, one of life’s friends but doesn’t offer enough in terms of end product.

Andy King - no, coaching perhaps but that’s it, playing days are behind him.

Anis Mehmeti - no, lacks an end product and doesn’t add sufficient quality overall.

Jason Knight - yes, great engine and leaves nothing on the pitch, not sure he’s a number 10 though.

Tommy Conway - yes, but he so needs an intelligent footballer alongside him.

Rob Dickie - yes, POTS for me so far.

Mark Sykes - yes, needs to play in an attacking role though.

Ayman Benarous - no, was neck and neck with Scott when they started but injuries have prevented further development.

George Tanner - no, suspect in both defence and going forward, sometimes special but often found wanting.

Sam Bell - not sure on Sam as on times looks special, would be a yes if a Manager or Coach could breed confidence in him.

Nahki Wells - no, has always been one of my favourite players, but hasn’t added sufficient value when recently given a chance.

Stefan Bajic - no, hasn’t appeared as there must be concerns around his ability.

Haydon Roberts - no, decent League 1 player for me.

Zak Vyner - yes, often looks special but needs to be taught how to play out from the back.

Scott Twine - yes, if we could get him fit, would love to see him here playing, set-plays and passing better than what we have.

Liam Manning - no, another LJ for me with his box entries and technical comments that aren’t backed, coach but not to Manage.

Lansdown Family - no, will always be grateful for everything they have done for the club, but a change at the top is well overdue, we need Bristol City back and investment into a competitive squad, the move to Bristol Sport hasn’t worked out well for anybody.

 

 

Great post  My only argument would be Tanner who I think has played really well recently after a poor start to the season

4 minutes ago, RobImps said:

I'd personally not like to see us return to unsustainable spending, no.

I'd not really take the transfer dealings of his time at Forest to seriously though, not entirely sure he had much input into that circus act.

I don’t want that either. Must live within our means

1 minute ago, RobImps said:

Hugely hypothetical at this time, but...

If the club were to dismiss Manning now, I'd love us to go for Cooper, do I think either are likely? Not a chance for either.

I don't think they'd sack Manning, the ego's won't allow it.

And I don't think they'd go for Cooper, makes to much sense.

Great shout

I know I am going to get shot down. Don’t care. Just love the Club and want the best for it. Clearly not going to happen. Best manager we have employed since Alan Dicks in terms of understanding what’s required to get promoted and what awaits should we ever achieve this. If Pearson can’t come back as Director of football.   We all know  the club don’t want him and he would tell us where to go   So the question is who could we appoint that could do this job?

Spike

i feel your pain. So many good points. Others have also said Manning is a coach not a Manager. I think very simplistically this is the key issue. We are rapidly going backwards 

1 hour ago, Spike said:

This is what frustrated me yesterday, Liam has been brought in to coach the team, to improve how we play both individually and as a team but in my eyes he is failing in both areas.

Vyner & Dickie - The one thing NP identified and rectified before being released was that no matter how he shaped the back 3 Vyner is not comfortable in a back 3 and lacks the positional awareness to cope with it so he switched to a back 4 where we saw Vyner really start to shine, so much so that he secured a new contract when many thought he was going to leave. Vyner is a great player in a traditional back 4 where the full-backs sit back and when they do push up a midfielder comes across to cover but in a back 3 where the opposition can counter he is often positioned poorly on the transition and indecisive on when to go to the ball and when to drop off, in turn it forces Dickie to move about more than he should at which point he gets caught out too. Simply put we struggle to deal with a good punchy counter off of the transition when using a back 3 and this is something that Manning doesn't seem willing to accept as he continues to try and use the back 3 with two wing backs system. What concerns me is that when Manning came in this is the kind of information the club should be giving him so he should be aware of it before he even begins to implement his style of coaching. If we was not made aware of this then instantly the club are off to a poor start as with any new manager/coach coming in there should be information handed on for the new man to evaluate and make his own mind up about but at the very least be made aware of. 
At this point Manning has had more than enough time to identify this issue but continues to try and have us play a 3 at the back whether it changes based on play or sticks to a flat three regardless. For me this is a major part of why we struggle with teams who sit back against us as they get numbers behind the ball, soak up the pressure and when we make a poor pass they get it out wide quickly and then pump the ball into the off middles area where this positioning in the transition catches us off guard and either Vyner is out of position forcing Dickie to move to cover or both men seem confused on who is going to attack the ball and who is going to keep dropping back. This issue doesn't come about nearly as much when we use a traditional back 4 because the initial transition is usually slowed down at the wide point to slow down the counter and prevent a quick movement up the pitch. With the wing backs we lose this and with the weaknesses with the back line in a three we become exposed.

Sam Bell - Looks like he's lost his edge to many when in fact I think the real issue comes down to what is being asked of him in this new system. Bell is very much a counter attacking player, he likes to get the ball and run at players who are trying to get their shape back but with the new possession-based football we rarely find ourselves in a situation where Bell is in possession and the opposition is tracking back, instead Bell is given the ball in a static position out wide with no space to get moving so he is forced to try and beat his man with pace over and over. When he pushes wide to do this and tries to cross but is blocked he rarely has a good inside option or any player making a run for him so he ultimately has to play it back to the defence in order to move the ball across the pitch as Manning loves to have us do. The goal of switching the play is to move the ball across the pitch as quickly and effectively as possible which in turn will create openings with the opposition, only this doesn't work that often at this level as any decent Championship team knows to transition their shape with the movement of the ball and we can't switch the ball quickly enough as Manning confirmed against QPR when we looked toothless.
Ultimately Manning has created a tactic in which Bell would only fit being one of a front two partnership as his finishing is good and if given the freedom he does like to get into the box and cause issues but again, this is not how Manning is setting us up. I do not see Bell doing well in this team unless Manning starts to implement a mixed approach where we not only play the possession and movement style of football but can also sit back and allow pressure onto us and use Bell as an outlet to move us up the pitch effectively on the counter.

Wells & Cornick - Another two players who are very capable in the right position and being used to their strengths but neither are being used that way. Cornick has a lot of qualities but under Pearson and Manning we've barely got to see them as much like Wells he's best suited in a front two partnership but due to nature of how Manning sets up and our lack of a pocket playing midfielder we never get to see them in their best roles. Ideally I think the best formation for us currently would be a 4-1-2-1-2 where the 1 behind the front two players would move across the pitch with the ball making wide runs or taking passes in the pocket to allow the front two space to move and create openings. The 1 in-front of the defence would also do something similar in that they would move across slightly when the full backs go for overlaps allowing him to drop in that space to reassure the back 4 and the 2 in the middle would adjust accordingly to these players movements to ensure there are passing options but also passing lanes covered.
That suggestion aside I do think that Mannings issue is that he wants to create a playstyle/tactic and stick to it regardless and his interviews when he mentions not moving the ball across the pitch quickly enough just confirms that in my personal opinion as rather than seeing that something isn't working and adapting the tactics to counter it he blames the players for not doing it well enough. The truth of the matter is if the opposition move their shape well enough then moving the ball side to side is never going to result in creating openings without a stroke of luck.

Mehmeti - Mehmeti is driving me up the wall, the bloke has the ability, he has the skill but he is sorely let down by his decision making and what frustrates me further is that Manning wanted Mehmeti before we bought him so he is essentially a "Manning player" in my eyes. What I don't understand is if Liam saw the ability and skill and wanted to sign him then surely he thinks he's capable of coaching him where his issues are and that's his final decision. I've lost count of how many times he's created something from nothing only to then make the wrong pass and undo all of his hard work. I also feel that with the coaching you'd see a whole different player if you had that pocket player to play the give and go passes with when he cuts inside but we don't have anyone playing that roles so when he comes inside he just aims to make enough space to take a shot and on the occasions where he doesn't think he has it he passes backwards and goes back to his wide role because he has no give and go option. 
This for me, again, comes down to coaching and tactics.

At this point I could write so much more but I am genuinely frustrated just thinking about it.

One thing I have been seeing a lot of on twitter is people saying what I was saying a few weeks back, that given a pre-season Manning could turn this around but in all honesty I think his interview killed that for me and I'm now very much expecting a repetitive circle of odd results followed by interviews about how the players played well this week when they win and how they just didn't do enough when they lose. Yesterday I was angry for the first time with Manning because that result was not on the players, he set up a formation and a tactic to play against a team who were obviously going to set up to counter what Manning has been putting out. Essentially Manning was predictable and his tactics were already scouted out by Wednesday and they outperformed us because they had the right set up and the right gameplan whilst we continued to try and push a tactic they were set up to play against.
Manning said that the performance was not good enough, the truth is we played right into Wednesdays hands and having done the same against QPR any manager who sees those results and watches those games in preparation to play against us will know exactly how to beat us, sit back, transition the shape with our passes across the back line, make small bursting runs at passing lanes until we inevitably make a poor passing decision and then hit us with a 1-2 movement outside and into the middle whilst our back line is on the backfoot as that's when Vyner misreads a pass or Dickie comes across to help because our line is out of shape. 

I personally hope a lot of teams see that we've lost to QPR and Wednesday and think we'll be a walk over and try to outplay us because that's the only way Mannings tactics are going to catch teams off guard e.g. Southampton, West Ham etc