Guest RC1984 Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Millen says some players have refused to go out on loan preventing us from bringing others in. It shows these players are happy to get paid for doing nothing! Don't want players like these at the club!!!
Monkeh Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 On the is it Millen says the turned down moves which is less sensational then the evil post story which was something I was trying to get at Without the details of the loan offers made it would be un-professional of keef to "name and shame" them it could of been location of the team it could of been wages it could be that they were only going to sit on the bench for said team
glynriley Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 I doubt Keith will make the names public for fear of putting off prospective employers. However , if they were still at the club post January window , I would make it known to all and sundry who the 3 are and make sure everyone involved in football knows exactly what their attitude is like.
Riaz Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Why "shame" them?? They may have good reasons for turning them down.
westonred Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 You cannot name and shame them, its not fair on the individuals the crowd would get on their backs, it would divide the club and make these players scapegoats afterall they are not doing anything wrong they are quite within their rights not to move if they dont fancy it. These players may have a valid reasons for not wanting to up-sticks and move probably for less money so who can blame them ? Don't forget last week the EP ran a story saying that clubs could not afford the wages of our players thats why no one was going out !! This week, its because our players are wanted, but they wont go.. Come on City tell us the real truth
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Why "shame" them?? They may have good reasons for turning them down. if they are just seeing the last year of their contract out, ie. taking the money, why not name and shame them, with a bit of luck it'll more than limit their chances of a good move and wage earning power when their current deal runs out at the end of the season, 2 can play at that game. Be honest if you were the manager of a club looking to sign one of these overpaid darlings permanently, their attitude would instantly put you off. Footballers constantly tell us how short their careers are and yet they are happy to sit picking splinters out of their arse and playing Russian roulette with their careers, **** em' it's a tough world and todays figures show 2.5 million people are unemployed.
Monkeh Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 But if we did ebm we would be stuck with them until their contracts were up Catch 22 this one and I think Teflon is doing the right thing
Riaz Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 if they are just seeing the last year of their contract out, ie. taking the money, why not name and shame them Whats the point? How can you prove that they are running their contract down? What if the loan is say in carlisle for example and the player does not want to leave his family for what is a short term period. What if they genuinely believe they can force their way into this poor team?
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 But if we did ebm we would be stuck with them until their contracts were up Catch 22 this one and I think Teflon is doing the right thing Smell the coffee Monkeh, judging by their actions so far especially Hunt, we are already stuck with them until their contracts are up. Prospective managers look for commitment, especially players who are willing to take a drop in wages just to play.
Monkeh Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Had 3 this morning ebm Just saying it's catch 22 we don't know if hunt was offered a loan for a start I'd rather it stays out of the public domain it's just nit cricket otherwise I am firmly on the fence
Redhyde Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 They probably don't want to be out on loan if there's a change in the management position. also, when did it become bad thing for players to want to stay and fight for their place?
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Whats the point? How can you prove that they are running their contract down? What if the loan is say in carlisle for example and the player does not want to leave his family for what is a short term period. What if they genuinely believe they can force their way into this poor team? if they turn down loan moves, it certainly proves he dosen't have the incentive to play and impress managers into giving him a new start, especially when his current contract runs out and if you were a manager of a club initially looking to signing one of these darlings, what would it tell you?. Carlisle is still a shop window into a new job when the old one is finished. As I said as a manager would you want to sign any player that you had'nt seen in a competitive game for over a year?. As for point 3, if they really believe that then they really do need help.
Monkeh Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Steve jones did it as did clarkson last season it can happen
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 They probably don't want to be out on loan if there's a change in the management position. also, when did it become bad thing for players to want to stay and fight for their place? That is not a bad thing, but I have seen precious little fight and they are getting older, rustier and bitter, in a way I really hope these players make themselves unemployable.
Riaz Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 if they turn down loan moves, it certainly proves he dosen't have the incentive to play and impress managers into giving him a new start, especially when his current contract runs out and if you were a manager of a club initially looking to signing one of these darlings, what would it tell you?. Carlisle is still a shop window into a new job when the old one is finished. As I said as a manager would you want to sign any player that you had'nt seen in a competitive game for over a year?. As for point 3, if they really believe that then they really do need help. Things are not black and white. There could be a million reasons why a player turns down a loan move.... what if a better club has shown interest for example.... Carlisle might as well be abroad, especially if you have a young family. And why do they need help? Millen gives us the fans mixed messages - whats to say he does not do that with the players?!
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Steve jones did it as did clarkson last season it can happen Yes he did and what non league club did he end up at and that is my point, the longer the 'unwanted' stay the less their options and earning power become, but most of them are too greedy/dull to realise.
Redhyde Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 If a player doesn't want a long term move, when a club is succeeding and they are absolutely nowhere near the first team, then yeah absolutely, they deserve to go the same way as Winston Bogarde. (although he did earn millions) he couldn't find a club after his Chelsea "career". But Millen's position and the teams form for me, makes all the valid reason for a move, less valid.
Monkeh Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 For all we know the gas could of been the club that came in and I wouldn't wish that on anyone............
Guest RC1984 Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Money shouldn't be an issue. From our point of view we might as well pay 100% wages to get them playing. At least then they'll be match fit when needed.
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Things are not black and white. There could be a million reasons why a player turns down a loan move.... what if a better club has shown interest for example.... Carlisle might as well be abroad, especially if you have a young family. And why do they need help? Millen gives us the fans mixed messages - whats to say he does not do that with the players?! The thing is Riaz I could'nt give a **** to be honest. I just think whatever their million reasons might be, they are very short sighted when viewed in their long term job prospects and earning power especially given their short career spans, at least it debunks the myth that 'it's not about money it's about playing the game' yeah right. As for Millen, yes he does talk in riddles but over 12 months on he is determined and any cost to prove that he can force Skuse and Elliott to become a successful central midfield pairing whatever the consequences, Pitman and Stead can become left wingers and that we played 4-3-3 on saturday.
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 For all we know the gas could of been the club that came in and I wouldn't wish that on anyone............ Not even Hunt!
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Money shouldn't be an issue. From our point of view we might as well pay 100% wages to get them playing. At least then they'll be match fit when needed. Well there I can agree, but unfortunately Millen has other views on this issue, even though our results, performances, lack of scoring, shape etc, etc, etc. tell us perhaps they might not do any worse.
Redhyde Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Can you now recall a player inside the first 28 days of his loan move btw?
Monkeh Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Yea minimum 24. Hrs that's what we have with Jackson
Redhyde Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Yea minimum 24. Hrs that's what we have with Jackson That's a youth loan though. The issue with naming and shaming, is it gives the players a right to reply, and that may make KM look very foolish, or indeed the players themselves.
Monkeh Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 We had keogh on loan with a 24 hr recall last season
westonred Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Lets look at the wider picture here, KM is trying to lay the blame we cannot bring in new players at the feet of current squad members who wont leave on loan ... Why then if Millen knew that the squad was far too big in the summer, bring in unwanted players like Taylor and Bolasie who cant even get into the matchday squad ? The blame lies with you Keef no one else, so stop blaming everyone else.
Riaz Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Lets look at the wider picture here, KM is trying to lay the blame we cannot bring in new players at the feet of current squad members who wont leave on loan ... Why then if Millen knew that the squad was far too big in the summer, bring in unwanted players like Taylor and Bolasie who cant even get into the matchday squad ? The blame lies with you Keef no one else, so stop blaming everyone else. You hit the nail on the head.
Ron Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Nothing like peddling an old argument that wasn't valid in the first place...
Robbored Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Lets look at the wider picture here, KM is trying to lay the blame we cannot bring in new players at the feet of current squad members who wont leave on loan ... Why then if Millen knew that the squad was far too big in the summer, bring in unwanted players like Taylor and Bolasie who cant even get into the matchday squad ? The blame lies with you Keef no one else, so stop blaming everyone else. You need to put the Bolasie/Taylor transfers in perspective. Neither cost much, nor will they be on massive wages like Maynard et al.Both are good investments for the future.
Monkeh Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Yet to see that robbo they need to come off the bench which is why people bring it up remember akindee was one for the future and now he can't get a game for crawley
BCAGFC Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Some are obviously taking this opportunity to knock Keef again...... If players are refusing to go out on loan, they have that right, they are contracted to us...........but they cannot then moan and cause disruption if they are not in the 16 on a matchday. Make them train with the youth team or on their own IMO......withdraw our coaching duties from them......although that might actually make them better players. BCAGFC P.s. Wasn't a player due to join Brentford on deadline day but for some reason it never went through?.
Riaz Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Nothing like peddling an old argument that wasn't valid in the first place... Very valid and true.
Monkeh Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Stewart was but picked up an injury in training and brentford signed some one else
BCAGFC Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Stewart was but picked up an injury in training and brentford signed some one else So if that rules him out, then we have 3 from a possible 4 names. BCAGFC
glynriley Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 You need to put the Bolasie/Taylor transfers in perspective. Neither cost much, nor will they be on massive wages like Maynard et al.Both are good investments for the future. You may be right about them not being on much in wages , but Sexstone said that the money we received from the sale of Henderson offset the fee paid for Taylor. Don't know about you but I would be dissapointed if we did'nt get £250K for Henderson. Therfore to spend that money on Taylor who is not better than we have and at age 23 NOT exactly one for the future , that to me constitutes a waste of money.
Guest del ete Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 So if that rules him out, then we have 3 from a possible 4 names. BCAGFC Well no-one would want hunt so I assume we now have our 3
Robbored Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 clarkson? Clarkson for some reason that I fail to see has slipped out of favour and he would be a very useful loan for pretty much any SPL club and especially a Div 1 club. If I was Clarkson I'd want to stay and City, work even harder in training and prove to Millen that I'm worth considering. I wouldn't want to go anywhere on loan. Once you agree to a loan move you are admitting that your time is up at the club.
Fiale Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 We do not know if the loan deals were season long or a few months e.g. 3 moving across the country for 3 months to play two leagues lower and not see your family - if a player refused that type of deal I do not blame them. As for naming and shaming then no the manager should not do this, unless he is then happy that this then gives those players recourse with their thoughts on the manager/club. I suspect that would be more damaging for the club than the status quo. Really all this speculation is pointless, we just need to let it play out.
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 You need to put the Bolasie/Taylor transfers in perspective. Neither cost much, nor will they be on massive wages like Maynard et al.Both are good investments for the future. Both MAYBE good investments for the future. But both add to an already big squad and did nothing to strengthen weak areas. it's about prioritising and given our circumstances, the development squad should have been a priority for next season when we have the space available after many out of contract players leave (hopefully) and strengthening weak positions a priority for this season.
Riaz Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Clarkson for some reason that I fail to see has slipped out of favour and he would be a very useful loan for pretty much any SPL club and especially a Div 1 club. If I was Clarkson I'd want to stay and City, work even harder in training and prove to Millen that I'm worth considering. I wouldn't want to go anywhere on loan. Once you agree to a loan move you are admitting that your time is up at the club. That could be said for a few of the out of favour players.... Nicky Hunt.... out of favour because of one shocking performance away at leeds...... not given a chance to prove himself since. One game ffs. I can understand fickle fans writing him off - a but a manager of a football club? Clarkson as you say. Cisse - looked really good last season, certainly better than what we've got. I suspect these players are on high wages and with the team not performing, its gotta be asked why has'nt he given any of them a go.
Monkeh Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 there is some truth in this I'm not sure how much tho' Anyone find it strange that there are no rumours of our players leaving in the papers (even the evening post) yet almost every day we are linked with a player coming in, I'm prolly just reading into it too much
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Clarkson for some reason that I fail to see has slipped out of favour and he would be a very useful loan for pretty much any SPL club and especially a Div 1 club. If I was Clarkson I'd want to stay and City, work even harder in training and prove to Millen that I'm worth considering. I wouldn't want to go anywhere on loan. Once you agree to a loan move you are admitting that your time is up at the club. Clarkson is in his 3rd season with us and is another failed Scots striker in a huge list of failed Scots strikers who ain't good enough to make it south of the border, one day either English clubs will get the message or one will by the law of averages turn out to be OK. I am absolutely sure he has and will always give/try his best for this club, because I am sure he does have pride, unlike 1 or 2 others, the harsh truth he ain't good enough and never will be.
Guest Ashton Gater Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 In response to the topic question... No - I fail to see how it wuold benefit anyone, it makes the club look unproffesional and likewise reflects badly on the players involved, which in turn makes them unattractive to other clubs which means we're even less likely to lose any. I agree with comments about giving some players another go but fact is Millen is not in an enviable position and the fans aren't really on his side. If he stuck Hunt or whoever in and we achieved a poor result the fans would be straight on his back - more 'he doesn't know what he's doing' rather than 'I'm glad he gave them another chance'.
megansdad Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Lets look at the wider picture here, KM is trying to lay the blame we cannot bring in new players at the feet of current squad members who wont leave on loan ... Why then if Millen knew that the squad was far too big in the summer, bring in unwanted players like Taylor and Bolasie who cant even get into the matchday squad ? The blame lies with you Keef no one else, so stop blaming everyone else. How many times - these guys are cover for Stead and Adomah and in the event of injury will get there chance - they are not the problem. and their acquisition makes sense, as cover and as longer term first choices.
GrahamC Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 That could be said for a few of the out of favour players.... Nicky Hunt.... out of favour because of one shocking performance away at leeds...... not given a chance to prove himself since. One game ffs. I can understand fickle fans writing him off - a but a manager of a football club? Clarkson as you say. Cisse - looked really good last season, certainly better than what we've got. I suspect these players are on high wages and with the team not performing, its gotta be asked why has'nt he given any of them a go. Sorry, that's just nonsense. He was lousy in all 3 home games that he played, remember Watford at home when he was subbed at half time when he looked likely to be sent off or give more goals away? Barnsley home? Millwall home? We let in 8 in those games. Hunt's been left out because Millen can't reply on him to either show enough committment or to play well enough to be in the side. Just because Millen has made mistakes which he could justifiably criticised for, there is no point in criticising him for the logical decision of leaving out a substandard player.
Riaz Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Sorry, that's just nonsense. He was lousy in all 3 home games that he played, remember Watford at home when he was subbed at half time when he looked likely to be sent off or give more goals away? Barnsley home? Millwall home? We let in 8 in those games. Hunt's been left out because Millen can't reply on him to either show enough committment or to play well enough to be in the side. Just because Millen has made mistakes which he could justifiably criticised for, there is no point in criticising him for the logical decision of leaving out a substandard player. Our whole defence was shocking at that time. If Nicky Hunt is so bad.... how did he play so many times for Big Sam at bolton?
megansdad Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Our whole defence was shocking at that time. If Nicky Hunt is so bad.... how did he play so many times for Big Sam at bolton? he was better then.............At present exactly who would you drop to include Hunt? it seems spence, Wilson and Nyatanga are looking better albeit in a defensive set up
glynriley Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Our whole defence was shocking at that time. If Nicky Hunt is so bad.... how did he play so many times for Big Sam at bolton? Thats like saying Michael Owen should still play for England. Hunt has been poor in virtually every game he's played for the club and I dont think you can castigate Millen for not picking him.
Riaz Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 he was better then.............At present exactly who would you drop to include Hunt? it seems spence, Wilson and Nyatanga are looking better albeit in a defensive set up I'm not saying drop anyone now. I'm saying why did he judge Nicky Hunt on one bad performance and not let him have a look in? He could be providing real competition to spence.
The Batman Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Thats like saying Michael Owen should still play for England. Hunt has been poor in virtually every game he's played for the club and I dont think you can castigate Millen for not picking him. cant argue with that i dont care how good he was all those years ago. it's what he is like now that is important to Bristol City.
Monkeh Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 cant argue with that i dont care how good he was all those years ago. it's what he is like now that is important to Bristol City. I agree Glynn Michael Owen should still be playing for england yes
Oizys Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 How many times - these guys are cover for Stead and Adomah and in the event of injury will get there chance - they are not the problem. and their acquisition makes sense, as cover and as longer term first choices. Not true. Albert didn't play against Swindle and so instead of giving Bolasie a run out, he put JCR there... If he doesn't play JCR on the left (where Bolasie also plays), he puts Woolford, or even Skuse there....So we have a backup who is a backup to a backup! And as for Taylor being cover for Stead, what's the point? Stead isn't even in the bloody team...making Taylor also a backup to a backup. So no, their signing can still not be justified. He has made comments about not being able to train a large squad and yet still brings players in that will not get anywhere near the team this year. Pointless.
Fiale Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Not true. If he doesn't play JCR on the left (where Bolasie also plays), he puts Woolford, or even Skuse there....So we have a backup who is a backup to a backup! And as for Taylor being cover for Stead, what's the point? Stead isn't even in the bloody team...making Taylor also a backup to a backup. Not to forget our favourite left winger.... Pitman From what I have seen we only have one midfield sub on the bench anyway which really curtails our options (though always two strikers - go figure).
Cider Army Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 This all seems to be millen taking the blame away from himself on to the players...What if the players that SO CALLED turned down loan moves want to be part of this club and think that maybe they deserve a chance in the first team?? Theyve had all pre season to ship players out..Im not at all convinced about all this,The playing squad is in a right mess!! Is this squad behind millen? What ever it is its not looking good.
Ron Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 I'm not saying drop anyone now. I'm saying why did he judge Nicky Hunt on one bad performance and not let him have a look in? He could be providing real competition to spence. Amazing how you take your speculation as fact
Riaz Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Amazing how you take your speculation as fact Do you know the facts Ronnabe? If so maybe you can enlighten us... otherwise how else can form opinions...
chinapig Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Does this not contradict the EP article Robbo posted yesterday in which Keith said: Although City's directors would prefer Millen to move players out before sanctioning further signings, the manager insisted he does not have to sell in order to buy. Or am I missing something? Or has the strategy chnaged yet again? Edit Actually on the OS he does not say as far as I can see that he has to move players out to bring any in.
Guest always hoping Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 On the is it Millen says the turned down moves which is less sensational then the evil post story which was something I was trying to get at Without the details of the loan offers made it would be un-professional of keef to "name and shame" them it could of been location of the team it could of been wages it could be that they were only going to sit on the bench for said team Quite right. Loan deals need to be good for both out going club, incoming club and player. Can only assume the 3 offers in question did not satisfy all three. Unforunately the press statement has inadvertently kicked off some supporter resentment which I assume was not its intention and is unfortunate at best. We do not know all the facts to make a judgement. When you consider there have also been loan requests turned down by City this season, it just shows how easily fans can accidentiy get a disorted view on events. Lets see how the transfer window progresses and hopefully City will get all its "non playing Pro's" out on successful loans soon.
Riaz Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Does this not contradict the EP article Robbo posted yesterday in which Keith said: Although City's directors would prefer Millen to move players out before sanctioning further signings, the manager insisted he does not have to sell in order to buy. Or am I missing something? Or has the strategy chnaged yet again? It changes daily!!
Guest always hoping Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 On the is it Millen says the turned down moves which is less sensational then the evil post story which was something I was trying to get at Without the details of the loan offers made it would be un-professional of keef to "name and shame" them it could of been location of the team it could of been wages it could be that they were only going to sit on the bench for said team Quite right. Loan deals need to be good for both out going club, incoming club and player. Can only assume the 3 offers in question did not satisfy all three. Unforunately the press statement has inadvertently kicked off some supporter resentment which I assume was not its intention and is unfortunate. We do not know all the facts to make a judgement. When you consider there have also been loan requests turned down by City this season, it just shows how easily fans can accidentiy get a disorted view on events. Lets see how the transfer window progresses and hopefully City will get all its "non playing Pro's" out on successful loans soon.
Donald Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 jesus christ, you know people have issues, when they want Nicky Hunt to get a chance based on him impressing in a pre-season game against Bath City.....which we lost
Riaz Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Who wants Nicky Hunt? I'm suggesting he gets a chance, not saying he is the answer
Ron Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Do you know the facts Ronnabe? If so maybe you can enlighten us... otherwise how else can form opinions... I know what you've said assumes Hunt hasn't featured purely/mainly because the Leeds game, which you don't know and doesn't really add up.
Donald Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Who wants Nicky Hunt? I'm suggesting he gets a chance, not saying he is the answer I know as I said want Nicky Hunt to get a chance" serious, people just change their view points as any reason to give Millen stick, what happens IF millen gives him a chance and Hunt flops yet again, I've no doubt you will be among the first slating Millen for giving him a chance, He just can't win,
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 I know as I said want Nicky Hunt to get a chance" serious, people just change their view points as any reason to give Millen stick, what happens IF millen gives him a chance and Hunt flops yet again, I've no doubt you will be among the first slating Millen for giving him a chance, He just can't win, What would help with the Hunt situation is if the club actually tried to explain exactly what is going on, there is obviously something happening in the background and it would help us perhaps to understand what those problems are. Having said that if Hunt flopped again he would be in good company.
Riaz Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 I know what you've said assumes Hunt hasn't featured purely/mainly because the Leeds game, which you don't know and doesn't really add up. Well he hasn't played since and in that game he wasn't match fit. I don't know how anyone can judge a player on so few appearances either. Lots of players start badly at new clubs and go on to do very well
fka dagest Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 The whole story in nothing more than a crude attempt by Millen to deflect blame from himself on to others. He's pointing the finger and saying to the fans here's the reason we're struggling, this is why we're having problems. It's quite pathetic really. The actions of a desperate man thrashing about as he sinks into the mire. People often say about KM, 'he's a nice guy', but I'm not even sure about that any more. What with his porkies about player injuries and attempted demonisation of certain players, I wonder if he's much less pleasant than the consensus suggests. The only transfer I'm interested in is Keith's - to the dole queue.
Forza Revolution Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 More excuses. Millen wouldnt win if he had Man citys squad available
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.