Hope The Players

[Super Scotty Murray]

Right, even I agree after the capitulation at Blackpool on Saturday and the way we fall apart (bit like the 7-1 Swansea with Tinnion) meant he had to go.

However, I just want to re-iterate, the players are as much to blame for this as KM and he is the one who is getting all the stick and I hope that they are ashamed of themselves. To be honest, I hope some of them come out and apologise to the club/KM for how they have played and show their support for the club going forward.

If they come out and win three in a row for a new manager, obviously I will be happy, but I will also be wondering why they wouldn't play like that for someone who has given 12 years of service to this club and is an all around good guy.

There are many players who need to buck up their ideas based on performances so far and some of these are our key players, such as Maynard and James. I just hope that they don't think they have got away scot free from this now Millen has gone, because they have a lot to answer to for the rest of this season.

Anyone who thinks that a new manager is going to sort our defensive problems has their head in the clouds! Unfortunately they are either too old, too inexperienced or just simply not good enough.

[Red-Robbo]

How dare they not perform when they were played out-of-position, told to do things that weren't their strengths, badly coached and utterly unmotivated by the top man!!!!

[SimonL]

Here here. Totally agree mate

[CotswoldRed]

They (some of them) gave up. Can't forgive that.

If they'll give up over a football match they'll never cope with life's greater challenges.

They should be ashamed.

[Riaz]

I dont think they should hang their heads in shame.

poor tactics and selections, not to mention poor transfer activity, will always lead to poor results and performances.

[CotswoldRed]

I dont think they should hang their heads in shame.

poor tactics and selections, not to mention poor transfer activity, will always lead to poor results and performances.

And to standing around in the last few minutes with resigned body language, leaving acres of space?

[BCAGFC]

Complete gutless ***** the lot of them & they will be told in no uncertain terms at the Peterborough game.

It was time for KM to go, as it was time for GJ to go but the players have lost my backing.

BCAGFC

[Riaz]

And to standing around in the last few minutes with resigned body language, leaving acres of space?

It happens when players are demoralised.

[Super Scotty Murray]

How dare they not perform when they were played out-of-position, told to do things that weren't their strengths, badly coached and utterly unmotivated by the top man!!!!

Exactly which players were out of position vs. Reading & Blackpool? NONE!

I agree KM has made mistakes, when we played 4-5-1 he was far too negative and he didn't understand that to play 4-5-1 you need good attacking full backs and a creative midfielder. Also, I agree that sometimes he has played strikers on the left of a 4-5-1 in error.

However, a lot of the problems in recent games have been INDIVIDUAL ERRORS, how exactly can a manager stop those?!

I agree KM made mistakes, but that doesn't mean the players take none of the blame??!! They should be ashamed and have a lot to prove still.

[hooered]

They (some of them) gave up. Can't forgive that.

If they'll give up over a football match they'll never cope with life's greater challenges.

They should be ashamed.

I agree giving up should never be in their mindset BUT our defensive frailties have been obious for over 12 months and what ever coaching they have had has not worked this must be addressed or whoever comes in will not stop our slid.

[BCAGFC]

It happens when players are demoralised.

Not if they have an ounce of pride or professionalism in them, you wouldn't see Joey Barton or the like give up.

Can't believe you are defending players who pull on the red shirt and then not put in a shift but then it suits your agenda.

BCAGFC

[Portishead Red]

How dare they not perform when they were played out-of-position, told to do things that weren't their strengths, badly coached and utterly unmotivated by the top man!!!!

Lucky doctors and nurses dont take the same actions then isnt it.

[Super Scotty Murray]

I agree giving up should never be in their mindset BUT our defensive frailties have been obious for over 12 months and what ever coaching they have had has not worked this must be addressed or whoever comes in will not stop our slid.

Ummm... what coaching is going to get Carey and McAllister back a yard of pace? What coaching is going to make Wilson suddenly good on the ball? What coaching is going to make disinterested loan players want to play? What coaching is going to make David James magically get 5 years younger and stop dropping clangers???

We should have made it a priority to buy a centre back, and if that meant selling Maynard, then so be it.

However, is that purely Millens fault? Surely it is up to the board to stump up the money to buy quality players?

What I don't agree with, is how Millen seems to be the only person to blame. He is the fall guy and a lot of it is undeserved in my opinion.

[Riaz]

However, a lot of the problems in recent games have been INDIVIDUAL ERRORS, how exactly can a manager stop those?!

I think that would be fairly obvious!

I got news for you, the manager is still responsible for defenders making errors. Better defenders make less mistakes. Millen decided to persist with these poor defenders and spent transfer funds on wingers and strikers.

Also, a bit more news for you - ALL goals are from some sort of individual mistake..... so should all managers never be sacked?!

[Guest sarah]

Right, even I agree after the capitulation at Blackpool on Saturday and the way we fall apart (bit like the 7-1 Swansea with Tinnion) meant he had to go.

However, I just want to re-iterate, the players are as much to blame for this as KM and he is the one who is getting all the stick and I hope that they are ashamed of themselves. To be honest, I hope some of them come out and apologise to the club/KM for how they have played and show their support for the club going forward.

If they come out and win three in a row for a new manager, obviously I will be happy, but I will also be wondering why they wouldn't play like that for someone who has given 12 years of service to this club and is an all around good guy.

There are many players who need to buck up their ideas based on performances so far and some of these are our key players, such as Maynard and James. I just hope that they don't think they have got away scot free from this now Millen has gone, because they have a lot to answer to for the rest of this season.

Anyone who thinks that a new manager is going to sort our defensive problems has their head in the clouds! Unfortunately they are either too old, too inexperienced or just simply not good enough.

Completely agree! couldnt of said it better myself

[CotswoldRed]

Lucky doctors and nurses dont take the same actions then isnt it.

Spot on.

You wouldn't want footballers around in a life and death situation. Especially when there isn't time to call their agent.

[Red-Robbo]

Lucky doctors and nurses dont take the same actions then isnt it.

If you asked a midwife to act as a heart surgeon than maybe they would. Players can only perform to the best of their ability when the manager is making sound tactical decisions for the team.

[CotswoldRed]

If you asked a midwife to act as a heart surgeon than maybe they would. Players can only perform to the best of their ability when the manager is making sound tactical decisions for the team.

I don't think we're questioning their ability, but their attitude.

[megansdad]

If you asked a midwife to act as a heart surgeon than maybe they would. Players can only perform to the best of their ability when the manager is making sound tactical decisions for the team.

so which one of Gerken and James was out of position. elliott, Maynard?? Pitman maybe but few others - they all need to buck their ideas up sharpish.

[Riaz]

so which one of Gerken and James was out of position. elliott, Maynard?? Pitman maybe but few others - they all need to buck their ideas up sharpish.

The fact he had the choise or Gerken or James - is 100% the fault of Millen!

[Guest sarah]

The fact he had the choise or Gerken or James - is 100% the fault of Millen!

or maybe its because the board gave james an additional year in his contract if he wanted it which meant having to let go of henderson because he was the one with less experience....?

[Super Scotty Murray]

I think that would be fairly obvious!

I got news for you, the manager is still responsible for defenders making errors. Better defenders make less mistakes. Millen decided to persist with these poor defenders and spent transfer funds on wingers and strikers.

Also, a bit more news for you - ALL goals are from some sort of individual mistake..... so should all managers never be sacked?!

If you read my opening post, I have not said that he shouldn't be sacked. After saturday I said it was the only decision that could be made.

All I am saying is the players need to take some of the blame, you talk as if they are all saints who have done nothing wrong!

Millen didn't have the funds to go out and buy a quality centre back, if we had sold Maynard we might have.

[hooered]

Ummm... what coaching is going to get Carey and McAllister back a yard of pace? What coaching is going to make Wilson suddenly good on the ball? What coaching is going to make disinterested loan players want to play? What coaching is going to make David James magically get 5 years younger and stop dropping clangers???

We should have made it a priority to buy a centre back, and if that meant selling Maynard, then so be it.

However, is that purely Millens fault? Surely it is up to the board to stump up the money to buy quality players?

What I don't agree with, is how Millen seems to be the only person to blame. He is the fall guy and a lot of it is undeserved in my opinion.

David James apart you don't need to be especially good on the ball or have that extra yard of pace to defend corners and free kicks. I have already agreed that giving up should not be an option, pace and skill does help in defence but understanding where a goal threat may come from and dealing with it helps more

[Riaz]

or maybe its because the board gave james an additional year in his contract if he wanted it which meant having to let go of henderson because he was the one with less experience....?

no. Had no choice to keep james - it was written into his contract.

The fact we gave gerken a new deal - when hendo's spell at yeovil proved he was a far better keeper - sealed hendo's move to pompey - where he is no 2.

Shocking decision to give gerken a new deal or even playing him - which ultimately cost millen his job.

[Red-Robbo]

Exactly which players were out of position vs. Reading & Blackpool? NONE!

Can't comment on Blackpool as didn't see the game but Reading - Kilkenny told to sit too deep and perform an ineffectual defence role; Taylor brought on and seemingly stuck on the wing leaving the team with no sort of shape at all; both wingers seemingly encouraged to play more centrally - the lack of width of our team was shocking at times. I could go on.

Add to that the fact that Millen decided to put no midfielders apart from Bolassie on the bench, so we were stuck with the out-of-form (and injured for the last 15 minutes) Elliott.

I'm not saying that individual errors - particularly goalkeeping ones - didn't cost us in those games, but who left us in the present position re keepers?

[Riaz]

If you read my opening post, I have not said that he shouldn't be sacked. After saturday I said it was the only decision that could be made.

All I am saying is the players need to take some of the blame, you talk as if they are all saints who have done nothing wrong!

Millen didn't have the funds to go out and buy a quality centre back, if we had sold Maynard we might have.

Its a myth that millen didnt have any funds - he spent plenty whilst here - but he did not spend it wisely

[Guest sarah]

no. Had no choice to keep james - it was written into his contract.

The fact we gave gerken a new deal - when hendo's spell at yeovil proved he was a far better keeper - sealed hendo's move to pompey - where he is no 2.

Shocking decision to give gerken a new deal or even playing him - which ultimately cost millen his job.

i thought hendo was offered a new deal but he chose not to take it? i do tend to agree with you i wish we hadnt got rid of hendo and i prefer hendo to gerks - however i havent seen alot of hendo and yeovil are in a lower league so could be easier to stand out - if he was that good maybe he'd be playing no1 for pompey? i just think when it comes to contracts etc the board have just as much of an imput as milly so maybe they should take some responsibility for that as well as milly - although like i said i completely agree with you on that one!

[Super Scotty Murray]

Can't comment on Blackpool as didn't see the game but Reading - Kilkenny told to sit too deep and perform an ineffectual defence role; Taylor brought on and seemingly stuck on the wing leaving the team with no sort of shape at all; both wingers seemingly encouraged to play more centrally - the lack of width of our team was shocking at times. I could go on.

Add to that the fact that Millen decided to put no midfielders apart from Bolassie on the bench, so we were stuck with the out-of-form (and injured for the last 15 minutes) Elliott.

I'm not saying that individual errors - particularly goalkeeping ones - didn't cost us in those games, but who left us in the present position re keepers?

Kilkenny is a defensive midfielder! Go and ask any Leeds fan if you want confirmation. The fact is we have such a dirth of creative midfielder's we are tyring to believe that he is the answer! He isn't! He is a box to box comabtive midfielder at most, Millen did not play him out of position in my opinion.

Lack of width? We had two out and out wingers!!!

Taylor came on late in the game, we had already lost our heads by then. He was asked to go out there so he could flick it on to the two strikers and try and create something like that.

Look, you are right to say that he has made errors in formation etc. in certain games, and I totally agree with you that he has made mistakes but at the end of the day, when he played 4-4-2 with two wingers, as everyone wanted, the players still managed to mess it up.

All I am saying is that the players should take some of the blame? Surely that isn't too much to ask?

[Red-Robbo]

Ummm... what coaching is going to get Carey and McAllister back a yard of pace? .

Thought Carey looked very quick on Tuesday night. Again, can't comment on Saturday as I wasn't there and can't even bring myself to watch the goals.

The poor coaching I refer to is in terms of organisation as much as anything.

I have a certain agreement with what your first post said, but I do think Millen has been the architect of his own downfall largely. The fact that we have a number of players who played well at other clubs but have underwhelmed here, is just one indication.

[Monkeh]

Missing the point mate.

There is NO excuse for not trying and feeling sorry for yourself. Bloody hell they are pro's and should behave as such.

why is anyone shocked the players have done this?

The majority were here and did the same to get johnson sacked and fans were fine with this,

Yet they get the tactically inept keef sacked and now your up in arms,

The players have history of doing this and just shows player power is rife again at AG instead of respect

[Riaz]

Missing the point mate.

There is NO excuse for not trying and feeling sorry for yourself. Bloody hell they are pro's and should behave as such.

Players not trying is absolute bollox. Can you imagine a player going onto a field of play and NOT trying??!

It may appear they are not trying - but they are - we just need to accept our team is not good enough.

[Red-Robbo]

why is anyone shocked the players have done this?

The majority were here and did the same to get johnson sacked and fans were fine with this,

Yet they get the tactically inept keef sacked and now your up in arms,

The players have history of doing this and just shows player power is rife again at AG instead of respect

But aren't most of the first team different from back then?

[Riaz]

Enough with the Henderson talk, he has gone, let it be

For the record. The Pompey fans really dont rate him either see here or here

Looking about the only reason as to why he played Saturday for them is because Ashdown is out of form

Here are the highlights from Saturday, Hendo was routed to his line from a corner from which Leeds scored their winner and constantly being dragged out of position by Leeds attack as well as putting the defence under pressure by playing a suicide ball to Rocha which meant he had to make a good save.

The grass is always greener on the other side it would appear. Ho Hum

So he makes mistakes in his debut?! Gerken makes mistakes every game. At least hendo is very young and can improve.

[Monkeh]

But aren't most of the first team different from back then?

Nope

When fit millens first choice 11 was,

James No

McAllister Check

Fontaine Check

Nyatanga Check

Carey Check

Albert No

Skuse Check

Elliot Check

JCR Check

Maynard Check

Stead/Pitman no

So 8 out the of 11 on what was millens strongest line up in his eyes were about when "they stopped playing for Johnson"

[CotswoldRed]

Players not trying is absolute bollox. Can you imagine a player going onto a field of play and NOT trying??!

It may appear they are not trying - but they are - we just need to accept our team is not good enough.

Absolutely I can, yes. I think many players put themselves before the club and that can be the result.

If they think the team (rather than themselves) are responsible for the state of affairs then that's one way of disassociating themselves from it.

You see it in school teams where players are lacking the maturity to deal with it.

[Red-Robbo]

Nope

When fit millens first choice 11 was,

James No

McAllister Check

Fontaine Check

Nyatanga Check

Carey Check

Albert No

Skuse Check

Elliot Check

JCR Check

Maynard Check

Stead/Pitman no

So 8 out the of 11 on what was millens strongest line up in his eyes were about when "they stopped playing for Johnson"

But three of them weren't playing in the last two games. Add in the subs and you have a clear majority of Coppell/Millen signings.

I just can't accept a theory that the players deliberately played shit at Blackpool to get Millen sacked.

[hooered]

Thought Carey looked very quick on Tuesday night. Again, can't comment on Saturday as I wasn't there and can't even bring myself to watch the goals.

The poor coaching I refer to is in terms of organisation as much as anything.

I have a certain agreement with what your first post said, but I do think Millen has been the architect of his own downfall largely. The fact that we have a number of players who played well at other clubs but have underwhelmed here, is just one indication.

I agree totally organisation at situations and as a whole when we don't have the ball this with certain players individual mistakes have cost us. After watching the Blackpool game the GIVING UP mentality came into view KM final downfall this now must to be addressed quickly with the players concerned.

[Monkeh]

But three of them weren't playing in the last two games. Add in the subs and you have a clear majority of Coppell/Millen signings.

I just can't accept a theory that the players deliberately played shit at Blackpool to get Millen sacked.

beacue they were not fit when fit they were automatic selection under Millen,

Remember he called McAllister a fantastic Left Back fonts is out with his ankle and skuse has the sniffles or lergy or somthing

[Back of the net]

If you read my opening post, I have not said that he shouldn't be sacked. After saturday I said it was the only decision that could be made.

All I am saying is the players need to take some of the blame, you talk as if they are all saints who have done nothing wrong!

Millen didn't have the funds to go out and buy a quality centre back, if we had sold Maynard we might have.

Surely it was largely Millens call over Maynard? I'm sure the board of directors would have spoken with him and had he said that reinvesting the £6m or so in the squad would

strengthen the team, then he would have been sold.

[Red-Robbo]

beacue they were not fit when fit they were automatic selection under Millen,

Remember he called McAllister a fantastic Left Back

That sort of backs up the Millen = inept argument doesn't it.

It does appear from the reports that heads were dropped to boot level in the last minutes of the Blackpool game. I think the players were demoralised after the manner of the Reading defeat.

Milly might've talked about there being 'no hangovers' from that game, but there clearly were and he failed to lift his side. Utterly.

[Mr Popodopolous]

A few things.

Posted something very simialr on another forum. Hope we see a good clearout come the summer, this has been going on for a year and a half now- end of Johnson's reign and good chunk of Millen's. That said we're not that great, right now survival would be happy days. They should take a long hard look at themselves- that said Millen as the manager will carry the can and has.

[downendcity]

I just can't accept a theory that the players deliberately played shit at Blackpool to get Millen sacked.

I agree with that. If only because I don't think our players are capable of acheiving anything they set out to do at the moment!

[One Team In Keynsham]

Not having seen us play yet this season, and only listened to some of the games via Player, I can only make comments on here based on 2nd reports of what I read/listen to. That said, I can forgive players of many things. I can forgive them for being generally crap, I can forgive them for having a bad day at the office, I can forgive them for making the sort of mistake that makes them wish the ground would open up and swallow them. I can forgive all of these and much more. I might not actually like players who tick all those boxes, but that's life. What I cannot forgive is an absence of commitment, and the appearance of simply giving up. Any player doing that needs a bollocking to end all bollockings.

I didn't bother listening to the Blackpool game, since I was hacked off after the Reading capitulation. Indeed I couldn't be arsed coming on since the Reading game, so did not read the post-match squabbling and bickering. Can someone give me a summary of what actually happened in the last 20mins that cost us the match?

[bucksred]

lets not **** around here Millen was at City twelve years, hes had a hand in bringing in the majority of them, those he didnt have any input on, he should have known how to get the best out of them, SPECIALLY after that length of time here.

The vast majority of this current team are either too old, never have been & never will be good enough for the championship, or bloody journeymen taking the piss..Millen was here throughout the Tinnion/Johnson/Coppell eras and should have known who was gonna make it and who wasnt. Replacements for Basso, Orr, McAllister, Hartley, Carey, and Marvin in particular. Oh and a ******* LEADER into the club

Enough excuses, hes paid the price for the above, and for odd tactics, ****** wierd substitutions, lack of motivational skills, and endless excuses

Bye Mr Millen, you will not be missed after the last two and a half seasons. I hope to **** Wigley doesnt stay either, hes not been exactly inspiring

Hopefully the new manager will shit can 9 or 10 players from now till the new season starts, hopefully still in the Championship (God knows whoever it is will have a ******* hard job doing so, given the dire state Millens debacle has left us in),

[Red-Robbo]

Can someone give me a summary of what actually happened in the last 20mins that cost us the match?

I could go into detail but in summary, after their first goal, which was very much against the run-of-play and soft as **** ,we stopped attacking and tried to hang on to our lead - inviting trouble in.

Pitman sat deep and Maynard had no-one to play off. Reading were fired up, they had seemed utterly incapable of getting anything from the game before, and they pushed up. After James utterly fluffed their second goal - by forgetting to use his arms to catch a ball - we sat even deeper. The defence looked nervous every time anyone looked close enough to test James and were utterly unsettled.

Then Elliott who had been of our worst players all game took a knock that required extensive treatment. On the restart, Millen took Adomah IMO our second best player that night off and put Taylor on who took up some sort of vaguely defined wide left position and we lost one of the main engines of getting the ball forward.

We had no shape and it was all hoofball and defensive scrambles, all the good linking play of earlier in the game had been lost. When they came forward with their last attack of the game, McGivern lost his man and their sub struck a nicely taken goal.

[BCFC Jordan]

They simply gave up which is pathetic with the salaries they're on.

Seems like many of them enjoy sulking because they've been dropped.

[Pederho ll]

I dont think they should hang their heads in shame.

poor tactics and selections, not to mention poor transfer activity, will always lead to poor results and performances.

Poor team selection and tactics is one thing, going less than 100% is purely down to the players. They should have as a very minimum professional integrity and be honest to themselves that at the end of each game they gave everything. Clearly this is not the case.

For this reason l blame the players far more than KM. In fact l feel a little sorry for him and my dislike and distain for these ego driven mercenaries grows ever greater.

[One Team In Keynsham]

I could go into detail but in summary, after their first goal, which was very much against the run-of-play and soft as **** ,we stopped attacking and tried to hang on to our lead - inviting trouble in.

Pitman sat deep and Maynard had no-one to play off. Reading were fired up, they had seemed utterly incapable of getting anything from the game before, and they pushed up. After James utterly fluffed their second goal - by forgetting to use his arms to catch a ball - we sat even deeper. The defence looked nervous every time anyone looked close enough to test James and were utterly unsettled.

Then Elliott who had been of our worst players all game took a knock that required extensive treatment. On the restart, Millen took Adomah IMO our second best player that night off and put Taylor on who took up some sort of vaguely defined wide left position and we lost one of the main engines of getting the ball forward.

We had no shape and it was all hoofball and defensive scrambles, all the good linking play of earlier in the game had been lost. When they came forward with their last attack of the game, McGivern lost his man and their sub struck a nicely taken goal.

Cheers for that, all sounds pretty dire.

[Redhyde]

Just watched the Sexstone video. Did you inform the players? Yes, they weren't in today. And they also have a nice long weekend off starting friday. Er hello, 5-0 thrashing, work to do guys IMO.