old_eastender Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Much said on here about 4-5-1 not producing for us... For me the difference between it working well (e.g. Millwall away, Southampton home) and not, is all about where Kilkenny plays. As our best passer we need him up the pitch playing in forward runs NOT playing deep taking the ball of the back four in our own half. He did this really well in those 2 games, then from the Boro game on has reverted to playing deep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcherryberry Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Important for me we get Killa playing back in his advanced CM role (not left wing like he was first half against Cov) while also getting John Stead in the team. These two are the only players at this club with a football brain. The rest can play off um. Would also help in this 451 if Skuse would for once take some responsibility and overlap Albert and not just pass to the nearest man behind or to the side of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhyde Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Kilkenny said it wasn't his favourite position (see the post West Ham interview) and IMO if he's allowed to get away with it he'll stroll about in front of the back four. Now we don't know if he's been instructed to change his position or is rebelling on the pitch. So it's hard to make a comment about him or the manager. But it's definitely different to what he did during the good run we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Would also help in this 451 if Skuse would for once take some responsibility and overlap Albert and not just pass to the nearest man behind or to the side of him. Ironically, when he did this against Coventry, Albert didn't bother to cover him and track Skuse's man, they broke away, won a free kick and scored the winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperRed Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Much said on here about 4-5-1 not producing for us... For me the difference between it working well (e.g. Millwall away, Southampton home) and not, is all about where Kilkenny plays. As our best passer we need him up the pitch playing in forward runs NOT playing deep taking the ball of the back four in our own half. He did this really well in those 2 games, then from the Boro game on has reverted to playing deep... Agree about Kilkenny, but we also need a good left winger. Our only real threat comes from the right, and when Adomah is not at his best we offer nothing going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketh2nd Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I think maybe putting Stead upfront alone with Adomah replacing Kilkenny in central midfield playing just behind stead. I like Kilkenny and he helps us pass a lot but can't help but think currently we just need more chances and if Adomah was in a free role Stead holding it up a bit we may keep the ball in the final third more but invietably lose the ball more in the middle third. Oh and put JCR on the right forgot to mention but would prefer Ribs if he comes through his loan unscathed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I think maybe putting Stead upfront alone with Adomah replacing Kilkenny in central midfield playing just behind stead. I like Kilkenny and he helps us pass a lot but can't help but think currently we just need more chances and if Adomah was in a free role Stead holding it up a bit we may keep the ball in the final third more but invietably lose the ball more in the middle third. Oh and put JCR on the right forgot to mention but would prefer Ribs if he comes through his loan unscathed. Why nullify one of our main attacking threats by moving Albert inside and mr I can't cross, beat a man or do anything vaguely useful on the right wing? Keep Albert on the right, give Bolaise an extended run on the left, stick pitman in behind Maynard and go with that, or if you don't want to play Maynard stick stead up top with pitman in behind. Pitman arguably has the best vision and ability to pick a pass in our team, especially the little quick and devestating passes that he can play, if you want the height then stead can offer that or if you want a touch more pace then Maynard offers that. Pitman is the only player we have had since noble who's passing and vision has the potential to absolutely tear teams apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I thought JCR looked ok when he came on V Cov. He is ok as an alternative - but should not be starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Why nullify one of our main attacking threats by moving Albert inside and mr I can't cross, beat a man or do anything vaguely useful on the right wing? Keep Albert on the right, give Bolaise an extended run on the left, stick pitman in behind Maynard and go with that, or if you don't want to play Maynard stick stead up top with pitman in behind. Pitman arguably has the best vision and ability to pick a pass in our team, especially the little quick and devestating passes that he can play, if you want the height then stead can offer that or if you want a touch more pace then Maynard offers that. Pitman is the only player we have had since noble who's passing and vision has the potential to absolutely tear teams apart. Where the formation is used it indeed tends to be more like 4-2-3-1 with one striker withdrawn (Rooney's best position imo for instance). I have often thought that position would suit Maynard; facing the goal certainly suits him more than acting as a lone striker I think All academic now of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketh2nd Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Why nullify one of our main attacking threats by moving Albert inside and mr I can't cross, beat a man or do anything vaguely useful on the right wing? Keep Albert on the right, give Bolaise an extended run on the left, stick pitman in behind Maynard and go with that, or if you don't want to play Maynard stick stead up top with pitman in behind. Pitman arguably has the best vision and ability to pick a pass in our team, especially the little quick and devestating passes that he can play, if you want the height then stead can offer that or if you want a touch more pace then Maynard offers that. Pitman is the only player we have had since noble who's passing and vision has the potential to absolutely tear teams apart. , just suggesting it as a different idea I know Adomah is a right winger and is by far our best play but is being 2/3 man marked. I Thought maybe worth moving him into the hole it could possibly give him more space or just chances for himself.Look at Swansea last season Scott Sinclair was a right winger. As currently he is our only attacking outlet except from glimpses from Pearson at times. I agree with pitman but he will only play in a 4-4-2 so don't see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 , just suggesting it as a different idea I know Adomah is a right winger and is by far our best play but is being 2/3 man marked. I Thought maybe worth moving him into the hole it could possibly give him more space or just chances for himself.Look at Swansea last season Scott Sinclair was a right winger. As currently he is our only attacking outlet except from glimpses from Pearson at times. I agree with pitman but he will only play in a 4-4-2 so don't see it happening. I remember Albert saying Coppell told him not to regard himself as just a winger. Mind you our fans do get very cross at wingers who come inside so perhaps he should after all be nailed to the touchline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad blit Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I was actually thinking the other day that it might be time to drop one of Elliott or Cisse (my choice being Marv), bring Kilkenny back where he feels more comfortable and have Brett in the advanced role behind Maynard as he does naturally drop deep. ----------------Maynard--------------------- -----------------Pitman--------------------- --Pearson-----------------Adomah---- -----------Kilkenny---Cisse-------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 , just suggesting it as a different idea I know Adomah is a right winger and is by far our best play but is being 2/3 man marked. I Thought maybe worth moving him into the hole it could possibly give him more space or just chances for himself.Look at Swansea last season Scott Sinclair was a right winger. As currently he is our only attacking outlet except from glimpses from Pearson at times. I agree with pitman but he will only play in a 4-4-2 so don't see it happening. I agree that he is being double and triple marked, for me that shows how poor te rest of our midfield and strikers really are, if there are 3 players around adomah then there should be gaping holes in both the centre of midfield and the centre of defence as the opposition re-position to cover overloading adomah, Maynard, Elliot, Kilkenny and Pearson consistently fail miserably to exploit the masses of space created by Albert. This is why I don't think moving Albert inside would make any difference as it would still leave space that the other players will fail to exploit, it would just move the space a bit. Give me Bolaise on the right and a capable winger on the left and pitman up front and I think that could work, but with our current players adomah is our only threat so he must play on the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 David Pleat said on the radio last night that whatever the intention4-5-1 tended to put players into a defensive mindset. Both Keith and Del have said it is not a defensive system but perhaps the players instinctively slip into that mindset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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