MATT BCFC Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Why have we left it so late to get the players in that we have needed for a while now? Am I alone in thinking that if I was manager I would want all my signings in before the start of the season and a pre season at the club behind them. We had all summer to sort out signings. People will say the Euro's, olympics etc will have held things up but not one player we have been linked with has played in either. Now Del should be concentrating on who is his best team, however instead he is desperately trying to get players in. DJ Campbell who is a journyman and isnt going to get much more than 10 goals a season at this level and to me just signals a panic buy. Davies the lad from Derby who would be a good signing seems like hes been available for a while so dont know why we havnt already got him in. A central defender should have been priority. Carey is now too old to play week in week out but will be excellent back up when needed. Fontaine has been slightly inconsistent in recent seasons. Nyatanga isnt good enough in my opinion. Wilson looks fairly promising but him and Fontaine alongside each other would not be dominating enough at this level. A left back was needed and looks like with Cunningham we have signed an excellent one. Strikers were desperately needed we lost Chris Wood who did ok on loan and for whatever reason Del cearly doesnt think Pitman is up to the task. So we have started the season with Stead, whos not an out and out goalscorer, Taylor hes not proven at all at this level and a player Del doesnt rate. A creative midfielder who can score goals was also needed. I suppose you could argue that Morris and Pearson are the two signings to cover this area. Cant comment on Morris but Pearson looks pretty average to me. If the reason is as simple as we are skint why not get some promising loan players in? I find it hard to believe a Premier League youngster with something to prove will be worse than some of the players we have here already. But then again we supposedly bid 1.5 million for Baldock, why has none of this been used now that looks like its a total no go? Negative I know but with this squad we arnt going to score many and will concede unless we play very negatively and get lucky. To me we werent ready for Nottingham Forrest on saturday and were only going to to ever get a lucky 0-0 draw with that team out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 You answered your own question in the first sentence of your second paragraph. I'm sure Del WANTED to get his signings done before the start of the season but want and get are different things. This ain't football manager No offence mate, but there is a worrying sense of de ja vu in this post. The questions are valid but they've been debated more than once before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBCFC Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 How do you think It works? Snap your fingers and a player arrives? get in the real world. We were after Keough, he went to Derby, then Gerrard, he went to Huddersfield. PLAYERS DON'T JUST CHOOSE THEIR FIRST OPTION!!! Derby weren't willing to part with Davies until a fair valuation was met, and until they had Salmon lined up, can't make them do business if they aren't ready to......unless of corse u expect us to buy the easiest option, just to get them in the door.....sorry doesnt work like that. You clearly have no understanding of how football and transfers work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT BCFC Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Hes not tried hard enough then? The main point im trying to make is why have three of the four problem positions not been covered at all? Does it really not worry people looking at our squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I suspect people are hoping for better offers in terms of wage, before coming here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT BCFC Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 How do you think It works? Snap your fingers and a player arrives? get in the real world. We were after Keough, he went to Derby, then Gerrard, he went to Huddersfield. PLAYERS DON'T JUST CHOOSE THEIR FIRST OPTION!!! Derby weren't willing to part with Davies until a fair valuation was met, and until they had Salmon lined up, can't make them do business if they aren't ready to......unless of corse u expect us to buy the easiest option, just to get them in the door.....sorry doesnt work like that. You clearly have no understanding of how football and transfers work We didnt get the chance to speak to either because we didnt meet the selling clubs valuation. That might help for a start.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 We didnt get the chance to speak to either because we didnt meet the selling clubs valuation. That might help for a start.... Why would we meet their valuation if it's in excess of ours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I'd rather that we took our time than panic buy and end up with a load of overpaid rubbish (see Steve Coppell) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT BCFC Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Why would we meet their valuation if it's in excess of ours? Unfortunately you have to pay over the odds in football nowadays and we are desperate for a centre half. If one whos proven already at this level comes available and it means paying a bit more than what you think hes worth then you have to go for it. Offering the amount we did for both Gerrard and Keogh was just embarrasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT BCFC Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 So you would rather us go down then than pay a bit more for a player? Which will cost us a hell of a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Unfortunately you have to pay over the odds in football nowadays and we are desperate for a centre half. If one whos proven already at this level comes available and it means paying a bit more than what you think hes worth then you have to go for it. Offering the amount we did for both Gerrard and Keogh was just embarrasing. Disagree, that way lies the kind of financial mess we're already in. Signing an average championship centre half for a rumoured fee of over £1m is nuts. There is better value to be had and I'm sure we will see someone come in, I'd rather take the time to get it right than sign another Damion Stewart. After all, panic signings are a good part of why we've suffered the last few years. As for our offers being embarrassing, that's ridiculous. You don't know how much the offers were for if they happened at all, and why would it be embarrassing? On the contrary, saying "we won't pay crazy money" is actually something I'd quite like our club to do more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 So you would rather us go down then than pay a bit more for a player? Which will cost us a hell of a lot more. Yeah, so now we're talking "Sign Keogh or get relegated". Not very realistic to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Hes not tried hard enough then? The main point im trying to make is why have three of the four problem positions not been covered at all? Does it really not worry people looking at our squad? Do you think we are the only clubs in for these players. We probably have to work much harder than other teams to attract players. Like someone just wrote it's not football manager it's the real world and to be honest people like you are frankly delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 It's different this season because of the Financial Fair Play rules. We're allowed to lose £8 million pounds this season but we've lost around £12M the last two, so we've got to shave off £4M from somewhere and most of it's got to come from the wage bill. If we break the rules we'll get a penalty at the end of the season (either a fine or points deduction) so we can't give in to players' wage demands like we have in the past. Unfortunately the small size of our gates in the Championship is going to put us at a disadvantage to the bigger clubs who average over 20,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT BCFC Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Disagree, that way lies the kind of financial mess we're already in. Signing an average championship centre half for a rumoured fee of over £1m is nuts. There is better value to be had and I'm sure we will see someone come in, I'd rather take the time to get it right than sign another Damion Stewart. After all, panic signings are a good part of why we've suffered the last few years. As for our offers being embarrassing, that's ridiculous. You don't know how much the offers were for if they happened at all, and why would it be embarrassing? On the contrary, saying "we won't pay crazy money" is actually something I'd quite like our club to do more often. The Coventry board said the bid we made was embarrasing. No im saying if we dont sign a decent centre half, a striker who can score goals at this level and someone who can actually create chances in the centre of midfield we will go down. So you think this current squad will stay up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 The Coventry board said the bid we made was embarrasing. No im saying if we dont sign a decent centre half, a striker who can score goals at this level and someone who can actually create chances in the centre of midfield we will go down. So you think this current squad will stay up? No they didn't, they said derisory. It's a subjective view. £1m+ for Keogh is ridiculous. Yes, for what it's worth the current squad will stay up. But we won't find out as we will be signing players yet. More patience, less panic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT BCFC Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Do you think we are the only clubs in for these players. We probably have to work much harder than other teams to attract players. Like someone just wrote it's not football manager it's the real world and to be honest people like you are frankly delusional. I cant say I play football manager but one assumes it is rather easy to sign players on there? Delusional for thinking my club should try and improve itself, I hope your not a psychologist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT BCFC Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 No they didn't, they said derisory. It's a subjective view. £1m+ for Keogh is ridiculous. Yes, for what it's worth the current squad will stay up. But we won't find out as we will be signing players yet. More patience, less panic. Which to me equates to embarrasing. Keogh went for 800k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I cant say I play football manager but one assumes it is rather easy to sign players on there? Delusional for thinking my club should try and improve itself, I hope your not a psychologist... From your previous posts you obviously think it's easy to go and get the players we want. You are delusional in thinking this in my opinion. As for your post about Del not trying hard enough, well that is a ridiculous statement. I do not wish to offend you but i think you are clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Which to me equates to embarrasing. Keogh went for 800k? I've heard lots of different rumours, from £700k up to £1.2m all told. They're all rumours. If you're embarrassed by someone whose aim is to get the most money possible going to the press calling a bid derisory, it's a good thing you're not allowed to do our negotiating for us. Posturing, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT BCFC Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 From your previous posts you obviously think it's easy to go and get the players we want. You are delusional in thinking this in my opinion. As for your post about Del not trying hard enough, well that is a ridiculous statement. I do not wish to offend you but i think you are clueless. There was me thinking this was a forum for people to express their thoughts and opinions, sorry have I came to the wrong place? Where did I state its easy to get players? I just raised concerns about the current squad and questioned why positions which appear to be weak were not strengthened. Id say more that people who think teams who struggle to score and concede goals will stay were more clueless than myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 There was me thinking this was a forum for people to express their thoughts and opinions, sorry have I came to the wrong place? Where did I state its easy to get players? I just raised concerns about the current squad and questioned why positions which appear to be weak were not strengthened. Id say more that people who think teams who struggle to score and concede goals will stay were more clueless than myself. But you weren't expressing an opinion, you made a series of definitive statements about the manager of our club. If you can criticise Del for not having signed a centre half then surely anyone in here can criticise you for seeming to believe that football is as simple as getting up one day and deciding "I think I'll buy that centre half we've been missing this morning! First, down Cumberland Basin for a fry up and I might see what offers there are on nippy strikers in the paper. 2 for 1?! Bargain!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT BCFC Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 It is a place for presenting an opinion, but more importantly it is a place for discussion and argument. In this case you have presented an opinion and the majority of replies have picked holes in your assertions. There have been no personal attacks (I would consider the 'clueless' jibe to be based on the evidence available, namely your clueless post) If you cannot take the fact that your opinion thus far has recieved no support then you're clearly not cut out for discussions... Oh I have missed being a patronising ******, OTIB. It's a pleasure to be back! The replies have just seemed to criticise that I apparently seem to think its easy to sign players and play football manager? So to clarify no one else thinks we need a central defender, or creative midfielder and some strikers? Other clubs seem to be able to get their targets in before the start of the season was just wondering why we havnt been able to. Was playing devils advocate slightly in regards to Del not trying hard enough, hence the question mark at the end. I was hoping more of a debate on are we skint or could we have done more to get players in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 There was me thinking this was a forum for people to express their thoughts and opinions, sorry have I came to the wrong place? Where did I state its easy to get players? I just raised concerns about the current squad and questioned why positions which appear to be weak were not strengthened. Id say more that people who think teams who struggle to score and concede goals will stay were more clueless than myself. Your asking why positions have not filled. I have tried to answer that by saying that we have very stiff opposition to sign these players and there are a lot of different factors that will make a players mind up if they come to us or not. I as everyone else knows we need a striker (or two) a centre half and hopefully a attacking midfielder , but i realise we wont get everyone we want. There is of course two weeks left of the transfer window and i trust Del to get the right players in. DON'T PANIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT BCFC Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 But you weren't expressing an opinion, you made a series of definitive statements about the manager of our club. If you can criticise Del for not having signed a centre half then surely anyone in here can criticise you for seeming to believe that football is as simple as getting up one day and deciding "I think I'll buy that centre half we've been missing this morning! First, down Cumberland Basin for a fry up and I might see what offers there are on nippy strikers in the paper. 2 for 1?! Bargain!" One appears to be making assuptions in to my post. Wont I dont understand is if we want players like Davies and Campbell why couldnt we sign them a month a go? Both were available then why wait until now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puckle_red Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 We struggled on both last season and stayed up by 8 points...just wait and see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 the transfer window is open for another 11 days The loan window is open for another 3 and a half months The manager knows where we are weak and has come out and said as much the club are trying to sign players, Yet again people on this forum thinks its easy/we have a bottomless pit of money/more attractivre then Real madrid (Delete as you see fit) For god sake give it a rest, how many times do you need to be told that the club doesn't conduct its business in public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Hes not tried hard enough then? The main point im trying to make is why have three of the four problem positions not been covered at all? Does it really not worry people looking at our squad? We have no idea how hard Del has tried and we don't know how many bids were submitted. All I will say is we didn't get Caulker till the end of the transfer window, so wait till september to judge how good our squad is, while it would have been nice to have a settled squad for the start of the season we need to be realistic and may rely on 1 or 2 loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 One appears to be making assuptions in to my post. Wont I dont understand is if we want players like Davies and Campbell why couldnt we sign them a month a go? Both were available then why wait until now? This is what it must be like talking to Karl Pilkington. Exasperating or what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrytheb Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 In an ideal world all clubs would have their new signings on on July 1st but football at all standards isn't like that. Players for the most part won't want to commit until they have had a chance to see what other options are available to them and clubs have to wait and see if the package they offer is acceptable. Selling clubs would always prefer a bidding war so most will broadcast the fact bids have been placed to try get more money. It happens at local football too (without the transfer fee). Managers are always phoning players early in preseason to try get them to their clubs but players wait and see if they get any other clubs call them I'd much rather we got our targets at the last minute and struggle for the first two weeks than pay over the top for a player just to appease some fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT BCFC Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Because that was the main point that came across from your posts, had you been clearer as you have in this post such responses would not have been provoked. Unfortunately you've been fairly derogertory about our manager whilst not providing any substance. In the interests if giving you the debate you wanted, I'll repeat what other posters have said. The transfer market is far from simple, there are many factors that can contribute to missing out on players. Competition from other clubs with bigger budgets or higher valuations on targets, personal issues from players (Baldock perhaps wanting to stay in London), teams not willing to sell until a replacement is brought in and many more. The Loan market will not be utilised until the very end of the window for most clubs and it's important to remember that clubs have waited for the 25 man squads to be announced in the Prem too. There is no doubt in my mind that in an ideal world Derek would have had his targets in place before we went to Scotland, but nothing in football is ideal. It just doesn't happen that smoothly. If, come the end of the window, we still have gaping holes in our squad and the loan market isn't used to plug them short term then I'm sure many will join you in questioning the club, until then patience is required. I agree with most you have said to be fair, but we can only assume what the transfer market is like unless of course your a board member or a manager. It just seems to me like we are suddenly upping our chase for players after loosing twice. Is this the board now giving Del funds as a kind of panic? Or is Del now realising that this squad isnt as good as he thought? I was hoping it would be cleared up in this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengibbs68 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Totally appreciate that it's not easy to get players of required level in in face of stiff competition and a need to balance the books. However,can't help but think that like anything, there's probably teams/managers who are more organised or have a specific strategy to follow to try and avoid gettin into the kind ofsituation we're in (beats me, but for example moving across a full time member of the board to concentrate fully on transfer targets in cooperation with manager and scouting staff...) while other clubs just leave it up to the manager/have no real plan to take into account main risks and then go about it in haphazard way... wouldn't surprise me if that were the case here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin101 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Is it just me, or when posters are defeated in battle/discussion do they always resort to calling otib hostile and unaccepting of opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I agree with most you have said to be fair, but we can only assume what the transfer market is like unless of course your a board member or a manager. It just seems to me like we are suddenly upping our chase for players after loosing twice. Is this the board now giving Del funds as a kind of panic? Or is Del now realising that this squad isnt as good as he thought? I was hoping it would be cleared up in this topic. wrong Funds have always been made avialable to the manager if A. the players is really needed and B. if its value for money, So if messi became avalable for 200k the club will sign him if Cunningham was valued at 20 million the club wouldn't of bothered signing him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Is it just me, or when posters are defeated in battle/discussion do they always resort to calling otib hostile and unaccepting of opinion? Some posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Some posters. indeed not all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Why have we left it so late to get the players in that we have needed for a while now? Am I alone in thinking that if I was manager I would want all my signings in before the start of the season and a pre season at the club behind them. We had all summer to sort out signings. People will say the Euro's, olympics etc will have held things up but not one player we have been linked with has played in either. Now Del should be concentrating on who is his best team, however instead he is desperately trying to get players in. DJ Campbell who is a journyman and isnt going to get much more than 10 goals a season at this level and to me just signals a panic buy. Davies the lad from Derby who would be a good signing seems like hes been available for a while so dont know why we havnt already got him in. A central defender should have been priority. Carey is now too old to play week in week out but will be excellent back up when needed. Fontaine has been slightly inconsistent in recent seasons. Nyatanga isnt good enough in my opinion. Wilson looks fairly promising but him and Fontaine alongside each other would not be dominating enough at this level. A left back was needed and looks like with Cunningham we have signed an excellent one. Strikers were desperately needed we lost Chris Wood who did ok on loan and for whatever reason Del cearly doesnt think Pitman is up to the task. So we have started the season with Stead, whos not an out and out goalscorer, Taylor hes not proven at all at this level and a player Del doesnt rate. A creative midfielder who can score goals was also needed. I suppose you could argue that Morris and Pearson are the two signings to cover this area. Cant comment on Morris but Pearson looks pretty average to me. If the reason is as simple as we are skint why not get some promising loan players in? I find it hard to believe a Premier League youngster with something to prove will be worse than some of the players we have here already. But then again we supposedly bid 1.5 million for Baldock, why has none of this been used now that looks like its a total no go? Negative I know but with this squad we arnt going to score many and will concede unless we play very negatively and get lucky. To me we werent ready for Nottingham Forrest on saturday and were only going to to ever get a lucky 0-0 draw with that team out. Have a good look at all 4 divisions, Spanish league and Italian league and virtually every professional football league in the southern hemisphere whose season has started and very few have actually made every signing they probably want to and why, because clubs now try to inflate prices prior the the window closing and buying clubs know the on or closer to deadline day the price will become far more realistic, even the richest club in the world ManC haven't concluded their business yet, it is the way football has become because of the windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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