TRL Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I'm just going by Dropping down a division to join us, Already on a fair bit at West Ham, Beating Charlton and Palace to him who had bids accepted I would be surprised if he was on less than 15k p/w last year and Less than 10k this year But my point still stands, He asked for the wages, He should be able to play to those standardsYou have no idea what he is on then? Now he has dropped a division and taken a hit on wages that must mean he doesn't have to be as prolific going by that sort of logic, yet he has already scored more goals than last season! Sorry what he earns has no correlation to what he scores. If he were in a team of nickey hunt's and him, how many do you think he would score? If he was prolific before he joined us people may have a point. He wasn't. All you can ever ask for from someone who wants the wages is the commitment and effort. Everything after that is a bonus, due the nature of being in a team you rely on others. No one can call into question Baldocks effort or commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 You have to avoid Stockhausen's poetic licence! It isn't just him to be fair it gets banded sbout all over the place and it is just bollocks! Lazy journalism. But for me he nmanaged 10 at a higher level in a crap team after banging in 10-14 in previous seasons at l1 that I would say is improvement. He now has 14 before the end of January. If he continues he will smash his previoud best. It all adds to continuous improvement.... which is all you can ask for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 You have no idea what he is on then? Now he has dropped a division and taken a hit on wages that must mean he doesn't have to be as prolific going by that sort of logic, yet he has already scored more goals than last season! Sorry what he earns has no correlation to what he scores. If he were in a team of nickey hunt's and him, how many do you think he would score? If he was prolific before he joined us people may have a point. He wasn't. All you can ever ask for from someone who wants the wages is the commitment and effort. Everything after that is a bonus, due the nature of being in a team you rely on others. No one can call into question Baldocks effort or commitment. Fair play you must have a decent boss if all they want is commitment and effort - mine demands that but if I did not produce results I would get flack and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Fair play you must have a decent boss if all they want is commitment and effort - mine demands that but if I did not produce results I would get flack and rightly so. Aye nearly 1 in 2 ratio this season is awful. Lets find the p45. If you expect a striker to be bettering that god help the rooney's van persies of this world. It seems only Ronaldo and Messi are the ones hitting high enough standards to keep their jobs! Results may not be based your successes or failures. If baldock hit 50 but we got relegated, would he get sacked because of the failure of the team? If we somehow got promoted this season, but baldock didn't score again, but help set up many goals for others, would he get sacked for not scoring goals, yet as a team we were successful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Aye nearly 1 in 2 ratio this season is awful. Lets find the p45. If you expect a striker to be bettering that god help the rooney's van persies of this world. It seems only Ronaldo and Messi are the ones hitting high enough standards to keep their jobs! Results may not be based your successes or failures. If baldock hit 50 but we got relegated, would he get sacked because of the failure of the team? If we somehow got promoted this season, but baldock didn't score again, but help set up many goals for others, would he get sacked for not scoring goals, yet as a team we were successful? We're getting off topic, Sam Baldock himself agrees with what I've been saying so that's good enough for me, Time to leave this thread now as we're not going to agree but for once it's been good to debate without it resorting to to much abuse!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 We're getting off topic, Sam Baldock himself agrees with what I've been saying so that's good enough for me, Time to leave this thread now as we're not going to agree but for once it's been good to debate without it resorting to to much abuse!! Without doubt. Easy to debate without abuse. But like all debates everyone thinks they are right If Baldock does improve his finishing. I think we can both agree, he won't be here long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Right Honourable Les Q Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 And the 'multiple use of negatives' award goes to.... I've never not heard nothing like that never. Not never even in that Hen & Chicken? You never should not have heard the bloody drivel I had to listen to after the game in that Thali cafe last night.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnclosureSurge Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 0'35"seconds into this, exactly the same angle as one of Baldock's yesterday...goal! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiU1kNJHLyQ And it's irrelevant that it's a Serie A player scoring (and a brilliant one at that, Callejon for Napoli) - you'd see a goal scored like this on the Downs of a Saturday pm. What worries me about Baldrick's 1-on-1 misses is thathe is a recidivist, straight at the keeper's legs nearly every time. He says he could improve this in training (5'15" in this interview - ) but it's been months since he has shown he can do this regularly. The second interviewer even suggests what he could do (changing the angle)!! Personally I think, as an intelligent footballer, he'll find his confidence and start converting some of these 1v1s - let's just not make him the next target for the boo-boys (must admit I got enraged by him yesterday!! But I'd stop before booing, hopefully). C'mon Sam, one thing's for sure - start knocking those easier chances in and we'll have an ever-improving chance of staying up. Cos at the moment, without winning games but drawing them, we're gong down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Without doubt. Easy to debate without abuse. But like all debates everyone thinks they are right If Baldock does improve his finishing. I think we can both agree, he won't be here long. If he doesn't improve his finishing I think we can all agree BCFC will never get a decent offer to take him off our hands. Any scout who saw yesterday's first half will never recommend him as a signing, that's for sure. It's not just the repetetive failure with the one on one's - does anyone even get out of their seat any more when he's bearing down on goal? - it's numerous easy chances where you would expect a goalscorer at any level to take the majority. Then there have been several 6 yard box air shots where he has failed to even connect with the ball at all. Presumably these don't go down in the statistics as shots at all, let alone on or off target, but gilt edged, missed, chances they remain. I don't go along with the theory that he is such a master of movement that he has created all these chances himself where another striker wouldn't have been in position. His movement will have been a factor in some but many, many others have been set up on a plate in a way no City striker has benefited from for many years. Yet he continues to miss them with such regularity it's hard to believe there are some who seek to completely excuse such unprecedented profligacy. He could very easily have doubled his tally this season while still failing to take many very good chances, and by the look of him he is as incredulous as most fans that such outrageous misses continue - note the furious booting of the EE hoardings yesterday. Cotterill is being very supportive and patient publicly but he must be as aware as anyone that it can't go on. If we continue to create this many chances, and squander a similar percentage as the vital games to avoid relegation come thick and fast, then these misses will become an ever more significant factor in determining the outcome of our season. Yet again we hope his second half goals will have lifted his confidence enough to produce a magical transformation in his golden chance taking percentage in the games to come, because frankly, nothing but massive improvement will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 If he doesn't improve his finishing I think we can all agree BCFC will never get a decent offer to take him off our hands. Any scout who saw yesterday's first half will never recommend him as a signing, that's for sure. It's not just the repetetive failure with the one on one's - does anyone even get out of their seat any more when he's bearing down on goal? - it's numerous easy chances where you would expect a goalscorer at any level to take the majority. Then there have been several 6 yard box air shots where he has failed to even connect with the ball at all. Presumably these don't go down in the statistics as shots at all, let alone on or off target, but gilt edged, missed, chances they remain. I don't go along with the theory that he is such a master of movement that he has created all these chances himself where another striker wouldn't have been in position. His movement will have been a factor in some but many, many others have been set up on a plate in a way no City striker has benefited from for many years. Yet he continues to miss them with such regularity it's hard to believe there are some who seek to completely excuse such unprecedented profligacy. He could very easily have doubled his tally this season while still failing to take many very good chances, and by the look of him he is as incredulous as most fans that such outrageous misses continue - note the furious booting of the EE hoardings yesterday. Cotterill is being very supportive and patient publicly but he must be as aware as anyone that it can't go on. If we continue to create this many chances, and squander a similar percentage as the vital games to avoid relegation come thick and fast, then these misses will become an ever more significant factor in determining the outcome of our season. Yet again we hope his second half goals will have lifted his confidence enough to produce a magical transformation in his golden chance taking percentage in the games to come, because frankly, nothing but massive improvement will do.p May I remind you Noggers that you are not allowed an opinion on Baldock or any other player unless it is 100% positive. I think you sum it up well when saying he could have easily doubled his tally even without scoring a lot of the easy ones. That's not making him a scapegoat, it's stating the bleeding obvious. It's almost as if SB can't possibly be challenged because he is captain or works hard. I think it says it all when he himself has acknowledged he has to do better. So next time he misses a sitter are we as fans not allowed an opinion? Shall we all just brush it all under the carpet and pretend the catalogue of misses actually never happened? I can handle him missing chances but it's the complete and utter lack of composure and lack of ideas that is startling. It's almost as if it's a hit and hope every time. No thought process or clever execution behind a lot of the poor misses. I think every fan is entitled to feel underwhelmed that a striker we signed on bloody good money and was expected to be championship quality isn't proving worth the outlay. Even more frustrating when a proven striker in Pitman was literally forced out the door for pittance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 p May I remind you Noggers that you are not allowed an opinion on Baldock or any other player unless it is 100% positive. I think you sum it up well when saying he could have easily doubled his tally even without scoring a lot of the easy ones. That's not making him a scapegoat, it's stating the bleeding obvious. It's almost as if SB can't possibly be challenged because he is captain or works hard. I think it says it all when he himself has acknowledged he has to do better. So next time he misses a sitter are we as fans not allowed an opinion? Shall we all just brush it all under the carpet and pretend the catalogue of misses actually never happened? I can handle him missing chances but it's the complete and utter lack of composure and lack of ideas that is startling. It's almost as if it's a hit and hope every time. No thought process or clever execution behind a lot of the poor misses. I think every fan is entitled to feel underwhelmed that a striker we signed on bloody good money and was expected to be championship quality isn't proving worth the outlay. Even more frustrating when a proven striker in Pitman was literally forced out the door for pittance. Not really. I just don't see the point at blaming the bloke for being a crap 1 one on 1 finisher because we bought him for loads from a premiership team. What he earns, where he comes from and how much we bought him for are all completely irrelevant to him missing one on ones. All that is the choice of the people that bought him. He hasn't scored that many or been prolific before we bought him, so for a 22 year old (when we bought him) he was very much a gamble. He is rubbish at one on ones, but he has scored 14. His goal scoring ratio is improving. Undoubtedly his one on one finishing will improve as hr improves his game. He is getting slaughtered by many as the sole reason we are shite. Sorry it is wrong and many of the reasons given (cos he cosy too much) is wrong. Now I have started sounding like Ian Holloway I'll stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Not really. I just don't see the point at blaming the bloke for being a crap 1 one on 1 finisher because we bought him for loads from a Premier League team. What he earns, where he comes from and how much we bought him for are all completely irrelevant to him missing one on ones. All that is the choice of the people that bought him. He hasn't scored that many or been prolific before we bought him, so for a 22 year old (when we bought him) he was very much a gamble. He is rubbish at one on ones, but he has scored 14. His goal scoring ratio is improving. Undoubtedly his one on one finishing will improve as hr improves his game. He is getting slaughtered by many as the sole reason we are shite. Sorry it is wrong and many of the reasons given (cos he cosy too much) is wrong. Now I have started sounding like Ian Holloway I'll stop It wasn't directed at you TRL. More at idiots like Monkeh The blame can't solely be placed at Baldocks door. You're right those that sanctioned it are at question too, especially when Pitman was literally given away. Me personally I feel underwhelmed by the money paid for him. Don't think we have had value for more and his lack of composure doesn't represent value for money. I've had my say on this many times and always like to think I offer constructive debate. I wouldn't start calling you an idiot just because you don't share the same view like some clowns on here do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 It wasn't directed at you TRL. More at idiots like Monkeh The blame can't solely be placed at Baldocks door. You're right those that sanctioned it are at question too, especially when Pitman was literally given away. Me personally I feel underwhelmed by the money paid for him. Don't think we have had value for more and his lack of composure doesn't represent value for money. I've had my say on this many times and always like to think I offer constructive debate. I wouldn't start calling you an idiot just because you don't share the same view like some clowns on here do In my defence, I am more than happy to have a reasoned debate without any need for personal insults...with most! My main concern is that because of the amount of fuss that's been made about Baldock's missed chances (despite the stats showing he's amongst the most clinical in the league), this presents a problem in itself. Now, every single time Baldock has a goalscoring opportunity, he will be expected to score, and there will be loud groans every single time that doesn't happen, when the stats show that even players like Suarez miss 3 out of 4 chances they have. I'd like to think that only 3 out of every 4 times Baldock fails to score, the crowd won't get on his back, but I know different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 In my defence, I am more than happy to have a reasoned debate without any need for personal insults...with most! My main concern is that because of the amount of fuss that's been made about Baldock's missed chances (despite the stats showing he's amongst the most clinical in the league), this presents a problem in itself. Now, every single time Baldock has a goalscoring opportunity, he will be expected to score, and there will be loud groans every single time that doesn't happen, when the stats show that even players like Suarez miss 3 out of 4 chances they have. I'd like to think that only 3 out of every 4 times Baldock fails to score, the crowd won't get on his back, but I know different. Completely agree mate and it has become an issue with some. I wont ever stop supporting him no matter how many chances he misses. All good strikers miss them. What concerns me is the lack of composure and unfortunately he seems to miss chances at crucial times on a consistent basis. Coupled with our defensive issues it's often coming back to bite us on the back side at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Man Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 In my defence, I am more than happy to have a reasoned debate without any need for personal insults...with most! My main concern is that because of the amount of fuss that's been made about Baldock's missed chances (despite the stats showing he's amongst the most clinical in the league), this presents a problem in itself. Now, every single time Baldock has a goalscoring opportunity, he will be expected to score, and there will be loud groans every single time that doesn't happen, when the stats show that even players like Suarez miss 3 out of 4 chances they have. I'd like to think that only 3 out of every 4 times Baldock fails to score, the crowd won't get on his back, but I know different. There are chances and there are chances, I don't believe Suarez would have missed 3 of the 4 chances that Baldock had on Saturday. For the two one on one's he would have tried to go past the keeper and do a swallow dive for a start rather than gamble on getting it past the keeper at a tight angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always Believesham Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I am sorry - hadn't remembered this was an 8 page thread - guessing the majority of this has been covered Pitman has those chances - we win the game. End of If Pitman ever sprung the offside trap from the halfway line and carried the ball to the edge of the area i'd be surprised - definitely a luxury we couldn't afford, compare him to JET; JET is also a spectacular finisher but rarely gets the runs in alone. Pitman might as well have been a target man for the running he did Baldock's finishing will improve, I expect him not to score when he goes through one-on-one much like many City fans but I am confident he will start putting more of them away The point I came on this thread to make was that we could have been 4-2 up at half time; JETs miss was sheer nonchalance, 2 one-on-ones and a header that other strikers may have put away. I thought we lacked real cover for the back 3 today and the back 3 lost shape when one stepped up to meet a player that a CDM would have gobbled up - at times it looked like Gillett, Reid & Pack were interchanging and never really covering; at the expense of leaving the defence exposed, we created a plethora of chances. Start putting more than 1 in 7 away and the side will shoot up the league, I reckon Elliott will return against Wolves and these hances will dry up a little, so it's up to Baldock to put more of them away - or at least make sure his 1 in 5 are chances 1 and 6 not 9 and 10! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hortonred Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 And the 'multiple use of negatives' award goes to.... I've never not heard nothing like that never. No he is too busy scoring goals and setting them up for others in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 It wasn't directed at you TRL. More at idiots like Monkeh The blame can't solely be placed at Baldocks door. You're right those that sanctioned it are at question too, especially when Pitman was literally given away. Me personally I feel underwhelmed by the money paid for him. Don't think we have had value for more and his lack of composure doesn't represent value for money. I've had my say on this many times and always like to think I offer constructive debate. I wouldn't start calling you an idiot just because you don't share the same view like some clowns on here do No worries.... that said I am a idiot and I have no plans to change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 No worries.... that said I am a idiot and I have no plans to change One of the good idiots that can actually have a constructive debate though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Second chance SB missed was not so easy. Tight angle defender running back, their goalkeper made his big. Good defending Imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Very much reminds me of Tony Thorpe. Hmmmm...actually, Pitman reminded me of Thorpe - good finisher but not an 'all round' team player, if you know what I mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Pitman back and Sammy to the door. Maybe its so easy to avoid relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted January 20, 2014 Admin Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Match of the Day is to blame. People have got used to watching highlight packages where the top scorers put away every chance that comes their way. The reality is that even the likes of Suarez and Aguero only have a 25% conversion rate yet people on this thread are arguing with complete sincerity that Baldock should be putting away 40% of his shots (comments about doubling his tally). Only 2 of the top scorers in L1 have a better goalscoring ratio than Sam yet he is being described as an average L1 striker. Do people even know what average means? In terms of goal ratio if Sam was average then L1 only contains 3 or 4 strikers. In terms of goals scored if Sam was average then L1 must only contain 13 or 14 strikers. There's probably around 100 strikers in this division that will be used at some point, Sam is distinctly above average. Yes he will miss some real howlers but so does every striker in the world, we just don't see them miss them every game as we are not there or watching their game live on tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Match of the Day is to blame. People have got used to watching highlight packages where the top scorers put away every chance that comes their way. The reality is that even the likes of Suarez and Aguero only have a 25% conversion rate yet people on this thread are arguing with complete sincerity that Baldock should be putting away 40% of his shots (comments about doubling his tally). Only 2 of the top scorers in L1 have a better goalscoring ratio than Sam yet he is being described as an average L1 striker. Do people even know what average means? In terms of goal ratio if Sam was average then L1 only contains 3 or 4 strikers. In terms of goals scored if Sam was average then L1 must only contain 13 or 14 strikers. There's probably around 100 strikers in this division that will be used at some point, Sam is distinctly above average. Yes he will miss some real howlers but so does every striker in the world, we just don't see them miss them every game as we are not there or watching their game live on tv. Good luck, I tried stats, logic and reason and it didn't work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 slightly ot but after baldocks interview,sc was asked about anymore transfers. i am enthused with his 'we dont want to bring anyone in for everyday of the week except saturday' is there anyone uninjured in our squad that he hasnt played yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Good luck, I tried stats, logic and reason and it didn't work! Both you and Ians posts rely too heavily on stats. You have to be qualitative in your assessment as well as quantatitive. People can use their eyes to make sound judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Both you and Ians posts rely too heavily on stats. You have to be qualitative in your assessment as well as quantatitive. People can use their eyes to make sound judgement.They can also fall victim to confirmation bias. Stats help you to apply some objectivity.You don't need stats or particularly sound judgement to realise that complaining about our strikers when they're both scoring and creating more regularly than any we've had since before Brooker and Lita, and that the rest of the team is frankly a complete shambles, is churlish to say the least. It's embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Right Honourable Les Q Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Wonder if our defence would shut out our attack? Who comes out on top in training? Maybe this is the only way to fathom which is responsible for our current position: missed chances (not scoring enough) or defensive frailty (just the 2 clean sheets, is it?)?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 They can also fall victim to confirmation bias. Stats help you to apply some objectivity. You don't need stats or particularly sound judgement to realise that complaining about our strikers when they're both scoring and creating more regularly than any we've had since before Brooker and Lita, and that the rest of the team is frankly a complete shambles, is churlish to say the least. It's embarrassing. Only as embarrassing as your overly simplistic theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Only as embarrassing as your overly simplistic theory.What theory?They've scored and created lots of goals, that's not a theory.We've scored 36 league goals. That's enough to be comfortably top half. That's not a theory either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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