Guest stroud Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Right tin Hat on.COming back on the train yesterday thought I would pop on here just to check people's view and was shocked and disgusted by the comments I read regarding Johnson after the derby game and there has to be a serious agenda against him as the first half was some of the best football city have played this season.we look sharp,bright played at pace and derby couldn't live with us and this was against a good derby side and speaking to some derby fans at the station they said first half that was one of the best sides they have seen in a long time.now I'm not claiming everything is rosy and people will claim yes we threw away a 3 goal lead but what can Johnson do or any other manager do when Bryan and Taylor miss golden opportunities to make it 4-1 and then the game is over or the fact that cotterill didn't track back for derbys second goal.A manager can have the best game plan in the world but if players don't make the correct decisions at the right moment I don't see how the manager can be blame.In my view the only thing I could see that Johnson got wrong yesterday was the fact when derby scored their first he didn't change formation and go 5-4-1 and become more solid and hit derby on the counter as derby only played 2 at the back second half yet reading on here it seems we got battered yesterday and for me that points to one thing either people didn't go yesterday or there is a serious agenda against Johnson anyway tin hat on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Never liked him a player, never liked him a person didnt want him as a manager still feel he's completely out of his depth. thats my view....some will call it an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stroud Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 And there's my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 You are 100% correct. Those without an agenda, whilst obviously frustrated and disappointed at not picking up all 3 points from such a strong half time position, can see that there was a big improvement and real signs of togetherness and improvement. You can't legislate for Matty Taylor's miss. It happens, so get over it, but if that goes in (which it absolutely should have done and will do 99 times out of 100) then it's game over and 3 points in the bag. You only had to see which posters were not posting during an outstanding 1st half, yet were quick to come out of the woodwork and twist the knife at 3-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P'head Red Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bowie said: Never liked him a player, never liked him a person didnt want him as a manager still feel he's completely out of his depth. thats my view....some will call it an agenda. If that's your opinion, that's fine. But I just can't understand why some people can't accept that we played well yesterday by all accounts, superb at times. Yes we have been very poor of late, and criticism has been justified, but not being able to enjoy a good performance is just a bit sad really, despite the manner in which it ended. Criticise where it's justified by all means, but also congratulate on the flipside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Bowie said: Never liked him a player, irrelivent never liked him a person do you know him well then..? didnt want him as a manager fair enough, but were you not impressed at the end of last season and beginning of this..? still feel he's completely out of his depth. To be seen, whilst we've still only lost one game by more than 1 goal. I bet Derby didn't think we had a manager who was completely out of his depth yesterday. thats my view....some will call it an agenda. Yep, I think most would call it an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northsomersetred Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, P'head Red said: If that's your opinion, that's fine. But I just can't understand why some people can't accept that we played well yesterday by all accounts, superb at times. Yes we have been very poor of late, and criticism has been justified, but not being able to enjoy a good performance is just a bit sad really, despite the manner in which it ended. Criticise where it's justified by all means, but also congratulate on the flipside. We didn't play well, if you're playing well you hold out a 3 goal lead. You don't throw it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P'head Red Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, northsomersetred said: We didn't play well, if you're playing well you hold out a 3 goal lead. You don't throw it away. Please refer to @Olé's thread from yesterday. An honest account from someone who was actually there, and has criticised where it's been justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northsomersetred Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, P'head Red said: Please refer to @Olé's thread from yesterday. An honest account from someone who was actually there, and has criticised where it's been justified. I aint reading all that shite, the only thing that matters is the result, we were 3-0 up and threw it away, that is not playing well. If we had played well we would of held onto the lead and got a result. We didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 20 minutes ago, Bowie said: Never liked him a player, never liked him a person didnt want him as a manager still feel he's completely out of his depth. thats my view....some will call it an agenda. Makes you a agenda before even giving him a chance. I think he's doing a good job and slowly tune in it around. It's a slow build not a quick fix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Regardless of whether you like or dislike the manager, coming away from a game with a draw when you are 3-0 up is shameful. I wonder how many people who play, or played the game, would be content to lose a 3-0 lead. I am truly amazed that supporters of our club are content with throwing away a 3-0 lead. I guess I shouldn't be though, as many are more than happy to lose games as long as it's only by the odd goal. In my 40+ years of supporting City I have never known so many people happy with sheer incompetence. We have a professional football manager who isn't able to manage a football team for the whole of a 90 minute game, the facts are all there for people to see, some seem to blind to see it though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 It could something to do with yesterday being the latest in a long line cockups. A match is 90+ minutes not 45. If we'd missed a chance at 2-0, would we still be saying if only we'd got the third? Well we did, and evidently 3 goals still wasn't enough. We're so damn soft, I don't have any confidence that even scoring a fourth would have made a difference. At 3-0 up away from home, the pressure really shouldn't be on the forwards to get another, they've done their job. I didn't mind him as a player by the way. As a manager, despite all his essential youngness and enthusiasm, I just don't think he's up to the job. Not yet anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P'head Red Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, northsomersetred said: I aint reading all that shite, the only thing that matters is the result, we were 3-0 up and threw it away, that is not playing well. If we had played well we would of held onto the lead and got a result. We didn't. That's fine, enjoy the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, northsomersetred said: I aint reading all that shite, the only thing that matters is the result, we were 3-0 up and threw it away, that is not playing well. If we had played well we would of held onto the lead and got a result. We didn't. We did get a result!! One that I expect every City fan would gladly have taken before the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: Regardless of whether you like or dislike the manager, coming away from a game with a draw when you are 3-0 up is shameful. I wonder how many people who play, or played the game, would be content to lose a 3-0 lead. I am truly amazed that supporters of our club are content with throwing away a 3-0 lead. I guess I shouldn't be though, as many are more than happy to lose games as long as it's only by the odd goal. In my 40+ years of supporting City I have never known so many people happy with sheer incompetence. We have a professional football manager who isn't able to manage a football team for the whole of a 90 minute game, the facts are all there for people to see, some seem to blind to see it though! Spot on. It seems that despite assembling one of our more talented groups of players, rebuilding the ground and being perfectly capable, at times, of dominating matches against sides at the top of the table, we are expected to be content with hoping that there are three teams worse than us. After the excitement and promise of the early season this has turned into a stinker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journalist Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, northsomersetred said: I aint reading all that shite, the only thing that matters is the result, we were 3-0 up and threw it away, that is not playing well. If we had played well we would of held onto the lead and got a result. We didn't. If the only thing that matters is the result - and not how that result was achieved - a draw away from home against a strong Championship side to go three unbeaten is a decent return and one I can only assume you're pleased with. If you "ain't reading all that shite" I'll also make the assumption that it's because you're unable to. As P'head Red says, enjoy your season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, northsomersetred said: I aint reading all that shite, the only thing that matters is the result, we were 3-0 up and threw it away, that is not playing well. If we had played well we would of held onto the lead and got a result. We didn't. If you haven't read it, how do you know it's "shite"? Did you go to the game? Or are you also making statements about how well we played without having seen us play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 The first half sounded superb, and was incredibly encouraging, but even going into the break at 3-0 up the events of the 2nd half were wearily predictable. McLaren rejigged his team to affect the game positively by his early substitutions and formation change, LJ couldn't reposition and reinforce City in response to ensure we held onto the points. I don't think many fans have a deep seated 'agenda' against LJ, they've just come to the conclusion, after a long period of disjointed performances and terrible results that he's not the right man for the job. One half, however promising, isn't going to be enough persuade them otherwise when the 2nd half was disheartening in equal amount, and predictably so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, The Journalist said: If the only thing that matters is the result - and not how that result was achieved - a draw away from home against a strong Championship side to go three unbeaten is a decent return and one I can only assume you're pleased with. If you "ain't reading all that shite" I'll also make the assumption that it's because you're unable to. As P'head Red says, enjoy your season. If the only thing that matters is the result, explain to me the last 15 games, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 14 minutes ago, Bs4Red said: Makes you a agenda before even giving him a chance. I think he's doing a good job and slowly tune in it around. It's a slow build not a quick fix As a club despite the outlay and the quality squad we have. There has been no real improvement when you look at the most important factor. League position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 26 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: It is relevant as a player, he was a gobby little shit who couldn't control his anger as a person for me, repeated rude gesturing your own fans is unforgivable, due to the love in with is father at the time it got brushed over. completely unqualified for a championship job. when a manager breaks the record for consecutive defeats, I view that he's out of his depth, likewise on the surface his man management appears completely hopeless. personally I think the man is a parasite has repeatedly put him person views/grudges above the well being of the club. (I get the irony) i firmly believe the sooner he's gone the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I like Lee Johnson and want him to succeed. But we have thrown away points from winning positions too many times this season and it is really troubling that there is a psychological panic that seems to set into the players when we're winning games comfortably. If yesterday had happened in isolation, I'd have accepted it was one of those things and a very decent point away from home. But it didn't happen in isolation. It's (at least) the fourth time this season we've thrown away a comfortable winning position. And there comes a point where you have to look at how the players are being prepared for games. I have no agenda at all against LJ and was delighted when we were 3-0 up, albeit not in a position where I could post anything on OTIB. It's obviously positive we are 3 games without a defeat. But far less so that we have 1 win in 11. I accept I wasn't at yesterday's game and so we may have played better (though from the highlights we are certainly making the same defensive errors) but the Cardiff and Forest games eroded the confidence I had in the manager and, whilst I still hope he can turn it round, our failure to hold onto a winning position again makes me doubt if he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beni71 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 46 minutes ago, stroud said: Right tin Hat on.COming back on the train yesterday thought I would pop on here just to check people's view and was shocked and disgusted by the comments I read regarding Johnson after the derby game and there has to be a serious agenda against him as the first half was some of the best football city have played this season.we look sharp,bright played at pace and derby couldn't live with us and this was against a good derby side and speaking to some derby fans at the station they said first half that was one of the best sides they have seen in a long time.now I'm not claiming everything is rosy and people will claim yes we threw away a 3 goal lead but what can Johnson do or any other manager do when Bryan and Taylor miss golden opportunities to make it 4-1 and then the game is over or the fact that cotterill didn't track back for derbys second goal.A manager can have the best game plan in the world but if players don't make the correct decisions at the right moment I don't see how the manager can be blame.In my view the only thing I could see that Johnson got wrong yesterday was the fact when derby scored their first he didn't change formation and go 5-4-1 and become more solid and hit derby on the counter as derby only played 2 at the back second half yet reading on here it seems we got battered yesterday and for me that points to one thing either people didn't go yesterday or there is a serious agenda against Johnson anyway tin hat on Great post. There is a serious agenda against LJ and some people on here would like him and the club to fail. I think we all agree that he has made some strange tactical decisions but the pointed abuse at him does nothing for us as a club. The accusatory nature of some of the random things that get quoted on here are quite staggering. The only challenge I have from yesterday was that Gary O'Neil should have been in that squad. He's has experience and mentally stronger than most in the squad. Just waiting for the "we were 3 nil up" comments to come flying in. No one wants to talk about the good football that got us 3 nil up. As a supporter base we are very negative and have aspirations well above our current capabilities and also have no track record of being better than where we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journalist Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: If the only thing that matters is the result, explain to me the last 15 games, please. What's to explain? It's been awful. Unacceptable, I think. What do you reckon? How would you explain it? I'm not here to fight Lee Johnson's corner, but some fans are about as consistent as the team. Some stuff has been truly venomous towards the head coach in the past 24 hours and it's pathetic. That's also why it's refreshing to read the original post, which offers some sense and balance - and from a poster who'd tilted towards Johnson's sacking. As others have alluded to, the major question mark is now whether he can put out a team to reproduce that first 45 minutes in the next game. I don't think anyone can be convinced about that?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Beni71 said: There is a serious agenda against LJ and some people on here would like him and the club to fail. As a supporter base we are very negative and have aspirations well above our current capabilities and also have no track record of being better than where we are now. This "agenda" business is becoming ridiculous. What's the connection between doubting LJ's capacity to manage in the Championship and wanting City to lose matches? There is none. I want to be optimistic....was at almost all our preseasons, have been to the majority of our matches...this season has been one of underachievement, given the resources available to us on and off the pitch. I see the club throwing away an opportunity to do something we've not done in years and consolidate our position at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, Bowie said: It is relevant as a player, he was a gobby little shit who couldn't control his anger as a person for me, repeated rude gesturing your own fans is unforgivable, due to the love in with is father at the time it got brushed over. completely unqualified for a championship job. when a manager breaks the record for consecutive defeats, I view that he's out of his depth, likewise on the surface his man management appears completely hopeless. personally I think the man is a parasite has repeatedly put him person views/grudges above the well being of the club. (I get the irony) i firmly believe the sooner he's gone the better. And that's not an agenda...?! Blimey. He must have been fcuking your sister..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red white and red Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 29 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: We did get a result!! One that I expect every City fan would gladly have taken before the game. Not when you're 0-3 up half way through the game. It's suicidal football!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I was neither confused, shocked or disgusted as any negativity anybody has after the run we've been on and then losing a 3 goal lead is completely understandable. However when reading bits from here and Twitter on the way from the game I did strongly disgagree with some of the criticism, certainly aimed at Johnson. I think what is pretty clear is that the reaction from people who weren't at the game but have seen us throw away yet more points is very different to those of us that were there and witnessed just how good we were first half, the chances we had second half to kill the game off and actually that although Derby were the better team second half and obviously scored 3 goals I don't think they ever dominated in the way we had and you will certainly see a lot more one sided halves in which a team doesn't score three goals. If yesterday is a sign of how we are going to play for the rest of the season then in the grand scheme of things the two points dropped won't be a massive issue as we will still be absolutely fine. Of course if we immediately return to the static, ponderous rubbish we've served up for the majority of this season then we'll still go into the end of the season bang in trouble and yesterday's second half will be one of the days listed when we chucked away points should we get relegated. Some of the comments on here last night did make me chuckle though. Someone said they were now 'voting with their feet'? I mean really? After the best game we've played in god knows how long? I mean there was more cause for that response last week after we'd won! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 52 minutes ago, Bowie said: I never liked him a person 12 minutes ago, Bowie said: he was a gobby little shit as a person for me, completely unqualified for a championship job. personally I think the man is a parasite i firmly believe the sooner he's gone the better. thats my view....some will call it an agenda. I don't think this remotely qualifies as an agenda . I'd put it more in the "spiteful, ignorant and vendetta" catergory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stroud Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Ok on a different view reading people's view that if we had a super manager like pardew,,Warburton etc etc the list goes on can you honestly say the result yesterday would of been any different tell me honestly if we have these super managers that people want would Taylor or Bryan scored to put the game to bed or would cotterill had tracked backed even more tell me what these super managers would of done differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Just now, Red white and red said: Not when you're 0-3 up half way through the game. It's suicidal football!! It's dissapointing, of course. But we did get a result. Fact. Some people seem to forget that the other team have 11/14 players, all doing what they can to stop us winning games too. Better teams than us have let a 3 goal lead slip before. It happens. Yes, we have let leads slip too often for liking this season, but it's a tough division. We've also taken points from teams who were beating us. It's football. If we were the finished article, it would be lovely. But if you can't see any positives from yesterday, then maybe being a football fan (especially a Bristol City fan) isn't for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: I don't think this remotely qualifies as an agenda . I'd put it more in the "spiteful, ignorant and vendetta" catergory. Well said. It's pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Bowie said: Never liked him a player, Irrelevant 1 hour ago, Bowie said: never liked him a person Why? What's he done to you personally? 1 hour ago, Bowie said: didnt want him as a manager still feel he's completely out of his depth. Those two points are fine. Two totally reasonable things to argue. The first two though, aren't. To me those two points do feel like an 'agenda' rather than a fair critique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, stroud said: Ok on a different view reading people's view that if we had a super manager like pardew,,Warburton etc etc the list goes on can you honestly say the result yesterday would of been any different tell me honestly if we have these super managers that people want would Taylor or Bryan scored to put the game to bed or would cotterill had tracked backed even more tell me what these super managers would of done differently Personally I don't have a view on who I'd rather have managing Bristol City. In fact I'd be perfectly happy with a competent Lee Johnson..with whom we seem to be stuck, so let's hope he gets there. What I'd expect to be different with a more experienced manager in charge is our resilience, our ability to see games out. Which has been sadly lacking. It seems to be beyond LJ to get the players thinking the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red white and red Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Way too many people on here are blinkered with Johnson. The guy clearly doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't know his best team, he doesn't know what formation to play, he doesn't know how to manage a game, he comes up with the same cliches week after week. He got lucky last week as we absolutely scraped past a woeful side and that bought him some more time. If anyone of us on here were that inept in our jobs I'm pretty sure we would have been down the road by now. I don't think I've been too unfair with that lot but people will obviously disagree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I dont say LJ is Einstein but we avoid relegation last season and I think the same this season. Defenensive and mental is our problem. Hope LJ can turn it right. Away with the ball, nasty, mark, keep it simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 25 minutes ago, Bowie said: It is relevant as a player, he was a gobby little shit who couldn't control his anger It's not relevant. How is it any way connected to his management ability some years later? 25 minutes ago, Bowie said: as a person for me, repeated rude gesturing your own fans is unforgivable, due to the love in with is father at the time it got brushed over. When? As a player or manager? He got absolute dogs abuse as a player for no reason. Yes, there's an argument to suggest he wasn't good enough for us at this level and GJ shouldn't have picked him - not his fault though and he shouldn't have got the abuse he got. I remember him as a player that always gave his all every game despite his limitations. As a manager, if you're referring to the incident the other week with the banner, well what do you expect? How would you like it in that situation? Especially in football management where passions run high. If that's your only reason, I take it then that you also 'dislike Cotterill as a person' for shouting at our own fans in his penultimate game vs Preston? 25 minutes ago, Bowie said: completely unqualified for a championship job. when a manager breaks the record for consecutive defeats, I view that he's out of his depth, likewise on the surface his man management appears completely hopeless. Fairer points, man management one most debatable because we don't know for sure what goes on. 25 minutes ago, Bowie said: personally I think the man is a parasite has repeatedly put him person views/grudges above the well being of the club. (I get the irony) You don't know this for sure so it's an unfair criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 51 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: Regardless of whether you like or dislike the manager, coming away from a game with a draw when you are 3-0 up is shameful. I wonder how many people who play, or played the game, would be content to lose a 3-0 lead. I am truly amazed that supporters of our club are content with throwing away a 3-0 lead. I guess I shouldn't be though, as many are more than happy to lose games as long as it's only by the odd goal. In my 40+ years of supporting City I have never known so many people happy with sheer incompetence. We have a professional football manager who isn't able to manage a football team for the whole of a 90 minute game, the facts are all there for people to see, some seem to blind to see it though! I generally like your posts whilst not always agreeing (and this is one of those times) I'm genuinely baffled how any blame yesterday can be put at LJs door, the players are getting off very very lightly compared to years gone by by the fans and they need to look at themselves in the mirror. For yesterday if blame needs to be given for not winning that game then look no further than Matt Taylor and Joe Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red white and red Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: It's dissapointing, of course. But we did get a result. Fact. Some people seem to forget that the other team have 11/14 players, all doing what they can to stop us winning games too. Better teams than us have let a 3 goal lead slip before. It happens. Yes, we have let leads slip too often for liking this season, but it's a tough division. We've also taken points from teams who were beating us. It's football. If we were the finished article, it would be lovely. But if you can't see any positives from yesterday, then maybe being a football fan (especially a Bristol City fan) isn't for you. I, along with many others on here, find it very difficult to take positives from such a collapse. Moving forward we need to be 4 or 5 goals up to be sure of getting a result? That's smacks there is something fundamentally wrong at this football club. Apart from the first 45 minutes yesterday and the 'odd' game, the players have no confidence whatsoever. They dont know whether to pass sideways, back or smash it 90 yards up the park. They look like rabbits in the headlights, they really do. It's so frustrating as a fan to see players with immense talent and skill to go totally inside their shells and not want to express themselves on the pitch. You could argue the creativity is being managed out of these players. No Reid, no Tomlin, no Patterson. 3 of our most creative players who can barely get a sniff these days. I wouldn't argue with that yesterday as Taylor/Abraham were superb. Maybe just consider the above for future games mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I really don't understand the playground mentality of OTIB where you have to take sides on everything. Why can't people be allowed to just enjoy yesterday for what it was, some fantastic football and effort from the team in a season of absolutely dire football. Having been to every one of our club record run of defeats apart from Huddersfield, I have witnessed some of the most feeble, tactically inept football I hope to ever see in my lifetime, and then suddenly, for one brief day, my team plays sensational football against a good Derby side, wins most of the 50-50 battles all over the pitch, has far far more chances. Just enjoy it FFS. And PLEASE don't draw any conclusions about who this point is aimed at, because it isn't, and that is precisely what I mean about playground and taking sides. Because for all accusations of LJ Out agendas (although if you complain about yesterday, you probably do have one), I have seen some absolutely cringeworthy stuff in several threads since yesterday from people engaging full on smug mode, with their own agendas to imply they were right all along, that yesterday was a vindication for Johnson, as if the last 3 months never happened and we were wrong to have criticised. THAT is equally an abuse of the 3-3 for your own agenda. A better title for this thread might be: why do you go to football? If it is simply for a result, you probably shouldn't bother as you'll be disappointed half the time and it's cheaper to stay at home and wait for final score. If you go because you want to a) see your team play good football and dominate an opposition, b) you want to be entertained, and c) you want to feel proud of what your team accomplishes, then yesterday was the first time in a long time you could tick all three boxes. For months now you couldn't even tick off one of those. I don't think LJ is up to it, but that's irrelevant today, yesterday was a brief moment of wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Red white and red said: I, along with many others on here, find it very difficult to take positives from such a collapse. Moving forward we need to be 4 or 5 goals up to be sure of getting a result? That's smacks there is something fundamentally wrong at this football club. Apart from the first 45 minutes yesterday and the 'odd' game, the players have no confidence whatsoever. They dont know whether to pass sideways, back or smash it 90 yards up the park. They look like rabbits in the headlights, they really do. It's so frustrating as a fan to see players with immense talent and skill to go totally inside their shells and not want to express themselves on the pitch. You could argue the creativity is being managed out of these players. No Reid, no Tomlin, no Patterson. 3 of our most creative players who can barely get a sniff these days. I wouldn't argue with that yesterday as Taylor/Abraham were superb. Maybe just consider the above for future games mate. I love having Tomlin on the pitch. Yesterday was exactly the right decision not to have him in the team. Nobody is happy with not winning from 3-0 up, obviously. But there was an in form Derby team, at home, chasing the play offs, hell bent on getting themselves back into the game, with nothing to lose. If 2 of our players hadn't wasted glorious chances to score a 4th goal then it knocks the stuffing out of them and we win. To score 3 away at Derby is no mean feat. We all but scored 4 (Taylor) not many teams do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red white and red Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Bar BS3 said: I love having Tomlin on the pitch. Yesterday was exactly the right decision not to have him in the team. Nobody is happy with not winning from 3-0 up, obviously. But there was an in form Derby team, at home, chasing the play offs, hell bent on getting themselves back into the game, with nothing to lose. If 2 of our players hadn't wasted glorious chances to score a 4th goal then it knocks the stuffing out of them and we win. To score 3 away at Derby is no mean feat. We all but scored 4 (Taylor) not many teams do that! Like I said, I wouldn't argue with not playing Tomlin yesterday. You seem to have focused on just yesterday's game. I'm on about yesterday and the season as a whole so far, which lets be completely honest, has been shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red white and red Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 17 minutes ago, JonDolman said: I did not go to the game so this is more a question than opinion. When Derby were apparently playing a high line, is Djuric the wrong option off the bench? How about bring off both tammy and Taylor and bringing on Paterson and odowda, 2 fresh runners who chase and make runs, giving Derby more to worry about than Djuric who needs the team playing higher up the pitch. No point in a player holding it up well, only for a knackered side to be sitting too deep to help him. I just think that kind of move invites more pressure. Take both strikers off and bring 2 wingers on? So have nobody up front at all? I think that might invite some more pressure mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: I love having Tomlin on the pitch. Yesterday was exactly the right decision not to have him in the team. Nobody is happy with not winning from 3-0 up, obviously. But there was an in form Derby team, at home, chasing the play offs, hell bent on getting themselves back into the game, with nothing to lose. If 2 of our players hadn't wasted glorious chances to score a 4th goal then it knocks the stuffing out of them and we win. To score 3 away at Derby is no mean feat. We all but scored 4 (Taylor) not many teams do that! Agree with this, its disappointing that we didn't come away with the win, people are forgetting that Derby side was full of quality, they also omit that yes they had played 120 minutes in midweek but recalled 7 or 8 players, the team in midweek was a reserve side, this team was their first... McClaren already said that this was the priority. Not forgetting their impressive home record and defensive record in the process... City played very well but it wasn't quite to be, we are not the only club to (or the first to) throw away 2 or 3 goal leads and we won't be the last either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Red white and red said: Take both strikers off and bring 2 wingers on? So have nobody up front at all? I think that might invite some more pressure mate. Since when has Djuric been a winger..?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 People saying converting Taylor's chance to make it 4-1 need to get a grip. To score 4 goals in the professional game is relatively unprecedented and frankly, the game SHOULD have been well and truly done with at 3-0 away from home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Portland Bill said: Regardless of whether you like or dislike the manager, coming away from a game with a draw when you are 3-0 up is shameful. I wonder how many people who play, or played the game, would be content to lose a 3-0 lead. I am truly amazed that supporters of our club are content with throwing away a 3-0 lead. I guess I shouldn't be though, as many are more than happy to lose games as long as it's only by the odd goal. In my 40+ years of supporting City I have never known so many people happy with sheer incompetence. We have a professional football manager who isn't able to manage a football team for the whole of a 90 minute game, the facts are all there for people to see, some seem to blind to see it though! Sheer incompetence taking a three nil lead at Derby County! Of course, anyone who has played the game would be disappointed losing a three goal lead, but they would also take positives from the fact they played well enough in the first place to take a three goal lead. That positive doesn't warrant a mention in your post. It is stating the obvious to say that I was not content to lose a three goal lead, but where my post differs from yours is that I have to say that I was more than bl###y content when we took the three goal lead. Please remember, we lost the corresponding fixture by four goals to nil last season. That might be a better example of the sheer incompetence you mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Bowie said: Never liked him a player, never liked him a person didnt want him as a manager still feel he's completely out of his depth. thats my view....some will call it an agenda. The very definition of an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, OddBallJim said: People saying converting Taylor's chance to make it 4-1 need to get a grip. To score 4 goals in the professional game is relatively unprecedented and frankly, the game SHOULD have been well and truly done with at 3-0 away from home! What are you on about..? Give Taylor that position another 100 times and I doubt he'll miss. It was everything but a goal, right up there with the biggest missed sitters of all time. Saying he should have scored is hardly stretching the realms of fantasy..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red white and red Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: Since when has Djuric been a winger..?! He's not, I didn't say he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Just now, Red white and red said: He's not, I didn't say he was. You said we brought on 2 wingers and didn't have anyone up front..? We brought on Djuric and O'dowda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red white and red Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Just now, Bar BS3 said: You said we brought on 2 wingers and didn't have anyone up front..? We brought on Djuric and O'dowda. Read it again. The poster questioned why we didn't take off Taylor/Abraham and bring on Patterson/O'Dowda. I merely said why would we bring off 2 strikers for 2 wingers, but cheers yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Red white and red said: Read it again. The poster questioned why we didn't take off Taylor/Abraham and bring on Patterson/O'Dowda. I merely said why would we bring off 2 strikers for 2 wingers, but cheers yeah. Ah ok. My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, handsofclay said: Sheer incompetence taking a three nil lead at Derby County! Of course, anyone who has played the game would be disappointed losing a three goal lead, but they would also take positives from the fact they played well enough in the first place to take a three goal lead. That positive doesn't warrant a mention in your post. It is stating the obvious to say that I was not content to lose a three goal lead, but where my post differs from yours is that I have to say that I was more than bl###y content when we took the three goal lead. Please remember, we lost the corresponding fixture by four goals to nil last season. That might be a better example of the sheer incompetence you mention. Amongst my disappointment (still) at letting a 3 goal lead go, which has been tempered somewhat by the great write ups on here, this point you've made HoC amongst all the hysteria is a very good one. That game really was diabolical! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red white and red Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Bar BS3 said: Ah ok. My apologies. No problem mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Bar BS3 said: What are you on about..? Give Taylor that position another 100 times and I doubt he'll miss. It was everything but a goal, right up there with the biggest missed sitters of all time. Saying he should have scored is hardly stretching the realms of fantasy..! I'm saying that to be suggesting we should have won the game 4-1 is madness! Whether Bas Savage could've scored that chance is irrelevant. It's all ifs buts and maybes. The only thing we can say for sure is that we were 3-0 up, and at that point away from home we needed astute game management (which is not just down to the manager but also the players on the pitch) to close the game down - stifle the opposition. We didn't and we threw away a 3 goal lead. Disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, OddBallJim said: I'm saying that to be suggesting we should have won the game 4-1 is madness! Whether Bas Savage could've scored that chance is irrelevant. It's all ifs buts and maybes. The only thing we can say for sure is that we were 3-0 up, and at that point away from home we needed astute game management (which is not just down to the manager but also the players on the pitch) to close the game down - stifle the opposition. We didn't and we threw away a 3 goal lead. Disappointing. Of course it's dissapointing! Gutted we didn't get 3 points from such a strong position, as is LJ. We faced a wounded, in form Derby, with nothing to lose who had the freedom to come at us. That 4th goal would probably have knocked the stuffing out of them, instead, the Miss probably galvanised them further. Anyone not seeing any positives from yesterday are clearly deliberately choosing not to see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isawjonshaw Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Thought he never got the credit he deserved as a player. Desperate for him to succeed as a manager. Results do not lie. He is out of his depth. There is not a club in the world who would still be using his services after our run of form and ability to clutch defeat from the jaws of victory. At the end of the day, all I care about is the club. He WILL take us down. He has to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossi the Robin Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I was livid at time of 3rd goal turned radio off and took dog out, expecting a 4th slept on it, overall feeling more positive than I was pre 3pm yesterday COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, OddBallJim said: People saying converting Taylor's chance to make it 4-1 need to get a grip. To score 4 goals in the professional game is relatively unprecedented and frankly, the game SHOULD have been well and truly done with at 3-0 away from home! Poor choice of words, to score 4 goals in the professional game isn't 'relatively unprecedented'... it happened 8 times in the top 4 English leagues yesterday alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Isawjonshaw said: Thought he never got the credit he deserved as a player. Desperate for him to succeed as a manager. Results do not lie. He is out of his depth. There is not a club in the world who would still be using his services after our run of form and ability to clutch defeat from the jaws of victory. At the end of the day, all I care about is the club. He WILL take us down. He has to go. What-how dare you..Lee is a master tactition I'll 'ave you know and make no mistake.. And Derby fans scratchin' their 'eds as to Taylor being 'pulled off'(oooh err)..??...Don't they get it?? It's all part of the plan,our scheme to confuse & baffle the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, OddBallJim said: The only thing we can say for sure is that we were 3-0 up, and at that point away from home we needed astute game management (which is not just down to the manager but also the players on the pitch) to close the game down - stifle the opposition. We didn't Respectfully, we did. They ran at us for about 30 minutes in the second half, and their net end product was just three clear chances I can think of, two of which they scored, and the other was a shot over from the edge of the box. Other than that they produced nothing with a lot of the ball, because we DID stifle them. People like Cotterill got back frequently and were a nuisance closing down and pressing players, we won most 50-50's and every header from set pieces. Keeping a clean sheet at 3-0 up was fantasy land against a good team playing at home. They were always going to get one, then maybe two. They have some very good players. But got so few chances. We managed them well enough. I don't know what I'd have done differently except perhaps bring on Paterson for Taylor in the hole so we could keep the same shape that allowed us to be more fluid in possession from midfield to attack. But Duric did also do a decent job. I share your disappointment and I know you're not specifically blaming the manager, but just putting it out there for others who will take your post as a narrative about the manager not being up to it. There was absolutely nothing* to blame on the manager yesterday folks, and I had and still have given up on LJ already. *Okay, I'm half joking here, but there was one thing I didn't like about LJ yesterday, and I was looking for an excuse to mention it. After Burnley away I passed comment on the slightly cringeworthy love in of those chants that seek acknowledgement from the manager. The "give us a wave" crap. Firstly, I'll say again, as I said then, no disrespect to the young group who do it, as they do fantastic things for away atmospheres. But about 50 odd minutes in, off they go "Johnson, Bounce Around". And he only bloody does. No effect on the result but I'm superstitious and it was facepalm central, you just knew what would happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Bowie said: It is relevant as a player, he was a gobby little shit who couldn't control his anger as a person for me, repeated rude gesturing your own fans is unforgivable, due to the love in with is father at the time it got brushed over. completely unqualified for a championship job. when a manager breaks the record for consecutive defeats, I view that he's out of his depth, likewise on the surface his man management appears completely hopeless. personally I think the man is a parasite has repeatedly put him person views/grudges above the well being of the club. (I get the irony) i firmly believe the sooner he's gone the better. So, it's OK for you to call LJ 'gobby' 'shit' 'unqualified' (factually incorrect by the way), 'hopeless' and 'a parasite' , all from the safety of your keyboard. But him making a rude gesture, and at least face to face with someone, isn't OK. Personally, I know who I've got more respect for in that scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
city1983 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 2 hours ago, stroud said: Right tin Hat on.COming back on the train yesterday thought I would pop on here just to check people's view and was shocked and disgusted by the comments I read regarding Johnson after the derby game and there has to be a serious agenda against him as the first half was some of the best football city have played this season.we look sharp,bright played at pace and derby couldn't live with us and this was against a good derby side and speaking to some derby fans at the station they said first half that was one of the best sides they have seen in a long time.now I'm not claiming everything is rosy and people will claim yes we threw away a 3 goal lead but what can Johnson do or any other manager do when Bryan and Taylor miss golden opportunities to make it 4-1 and then the game is over or the fact that cotterill didn't track back for derbys second goal.A manager can have the best game plan in the world but if players don't make the correct decisions at the right moment I don't see how the manager can be blame.In my view the only thing I could see that Johnson got wrong yesterday was the fact when derby scored their first he didn't change formation and go 5-4-1 and become more solid and hit derby on the counter as derby only played 2 at the back second half yet reading on here it seems we got battered yesterday and for me that points to one thing either people didn't go yesterday or there is a serious agenda against Johnson anyway tin hat on I don't think anyone doubts the great performance of the first half, this is not in dispute. And I don't believe that anyone at half time wanted us to let in 3 goal to prove a point or support their agenda. The problem is that after a great first half performance we couldn't manage the game out. This has been a recurring theme for the last 4 months a and cost us a significant amount of points and is going to cost us our place in the championship this season imo. The game is 90 minutes long and not 45. You don't get 3 points for being 3-0 up at half time. i think the performance in the next 3 games is crucial. If we go again then great, but if we go back into our shells again then that 2nd half is going to define our season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 17 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said: Poor choice of words, to score 4 goals in the professional game isn't 'relatively unprecedented'... it happened 8 times in the top 4 English leagues yesterday alone Iirc, teams scoring 4 or more goals rarely makes up more than 5% of the total of all matches played by all teams in a single league season. Ok, poor choice of words... perhaps I should have said "no one should expect to have to score a fourth goal to win a game ?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 33 minutes ago, OddBallJim said: I'm saying that to be suggesting we should have won the game 4-1 is madness! Whether Bas Savage could've scored that chance is irrelevant. It's all ifs buts and maybes. The only thing we can say for sure is that we were 3-0 up, and at that point away from home we needed astute game management (which is not just down to the manager but also the players on the pitch) to close the game down - stifle the opposition. We didn't and we threw away a 3 goal lead. Disappointing. OddBall, I don't know if you were there yesterday, and the reason for asking is simply that there seems to be a real difference in tone today between those who went and those who didn't. And Taylor's miss, in a way, sums up the reason for that. From a distance I can see how it looks like we went 3 up then simply messed up. But we didn't, and I think that's what those who went saw. We knew we had to expect Derby to come at us second half, and we would need to stop them scoring for the first 10 minutes, and we did just that. We weathered that well. Our game plan changed to a lesser tempo but catch them on the break. And that worked, brilliantly. And that's the point of the Taylor miss: it wasn't just about a striker missing a chance - although this one really was easy! - it's the fact that it just needed that little touch to make our second half game plan and tactics absolutely spot on. The margins are that fine, and frankly no manager can legislate for that. talking to Derby fans after the game they all agreed that was the point at which they felt maybe that bit of luck was on their side yesterday. They all agreed that it was not tactics, game plans or anything else like that was really the difference. It really wasn't as simple as a great first half and then completely caved in second half. Our game plan, subs etc were all good and literally inches away from working perfectly. Frustrating, but that's been our season so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, italian dave said: The margins are that fine, and frankly no manager can legislate for that. It really wasn't as simple as a great first half and then completely caved in second half. Our game plan, subs etc were all good and literally inches away from working perfectly. Frustrating, but that's been our season so far. 1) In my original post, I state that losing our 3 goal lead cannot be attributed solely to the manager - the players must take responsibility also. So I'm not sure why so many posters keep bringing this up 2) Frustrating but that's been our season so far - that outlook on the game is fine, and I can't lambast you for it. However, if we are relegated will you still be able to say "well that was frustrating, but it's really how our season has gone" and just move on? I certainly couldn't knowing that we realistically should be in and around 15th place with this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtucks Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 2 hours ago, stroud said: ...... the only thing I could see that Johnson got wrong yesterday was the fact when derby scored their first he didn't change formation and go 5-4-1 and become more solid and hit derby on the counter...... ........and if he had done that he would have been slaughtered on here for changing a winning formation. Some on here will blame him whatever he does. (Rotherham 60 mins???) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beni71 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Red Exile said: This "agenda" business is becoming ridiculous. What's the connection between doubting LJ's capacity to manage in the Championship and wanting City to lose matches? There is none. I want to be optimistic....was at almost all our preseasons, have been to the majority of our matches...this season has been one of underachievement, given the resources available to us on and off the pitch. I see the club throwing away an opportunity to do something we've not done in years and consolidate our position at this level. "Fans" calling the manager a parasite, critiscing his every move has become divisive. Fans want the team to fail so LJ will be sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stroud Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Hi red white red I wasn't saying bring off your 2 strikers for 2 wingers I was saying by going 5-4-1 bring off Taylor for Callum leave Tammy up top for his pace you would then have Bryan on one wing with cotterill on the other which would give you a extra man in the middle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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