Preston and Barnsley

[Super]

Can't help noticing these 2 teams in the top half and pushing for a playoff place. Surely both have spent far less than we have. Can't just be a case of they have better managers?

['Orns]

Someone on twitter suggested approaching Grayson should LJ leave

He certainly seems to do wonders with a smaller budget up there

As for Barnsley, Heckingbottom is still riding the crest of the LJ wave (hi Barnsley fans), maybe he could do the same here? More money, better stadium, bigger budget, better players, bigger club, better away support (hi Barnsley fans). Should ask LJ his verdict on him

[MC RISK77]

An overwhelming amount of the otib community were lauding over Barnsley fans at the start of the season telling them that hell would freeze over before they finished above us in the table.

looking pretty stupid now

[Guest SaulGoodman]

Yeah i had quite a few wanting to take me up on my bet offer before the season had started. 

Money doesn't necessarily buy you success (as we are definite proof)

Although i did expect you to be doing better, i always expected us to be about where we are.

[Turbored]

Been racking my brain over this as well , i keep doubting myself but constantly think are our players as good as we all think they are or have we bought a load of duds...?

Then i think when these kids get to the ages they are there cant be to much coaching needed but just a case of fine tuning, guidance and good man mangement. Someone who knows how to squeeze that extra 10% of them and keep them motivated and hungry.

Or is it just a case of you cant polish a turd ... 

[The Bard]

13 minutes ago, 8MenWith1Dream said:

Barnsley have lost key players as well. Hourihane, Winnall and Bree all left for sides in this division, yet they're still doing well.

Neither of these sides spend anything at all, just have competent managers. I'd have Grayson here in a heartbeat.

In a nutshell, that's the difference.

[Cider-Head23]

I had this thought the other day, it's a good question.

Teams like Barnsley & Preston on small budgets, generally seem to be quite close knit clubs with great team spirit.

They also don't have the massive expectations that City fans seem to have about our club.

Both would happily finish mid table in the Championship, so therefore probably can play with a bit more freedom and slightly less pressure.

Where as there is a misconception that Bristol City is a massive club and we should win most games we go in to.

Of course, that isn't just it, they may well have got a lot more luck than us this season and yes they may well have better managers that'll come down to a matter of opinion.

However on paper with the money we've spent, do we have a better squad, hell yes but that doesn't guarantee success,

just look at Aston Villa!  

['Orns]

17 minutes ago, Cider-Head23 said:

I had this thought the other day, it's a good question.

Teams like Barnsley & Preston on small budgets, generally seem to be quite close knit clubs with great team spirit.

They also don't have the massive expectations that City fans seem to have about our club.

Both would happily finish mid table in the Championship, so therefore probably can play with a bit more freedom and slightly less pressure.

Where as there is a misconception that Bristol City is a massive club and we should win most games we go in to.

Of course, that isn't just it, they may well have got a lot more luck than us this season and yes they may well have better managers that'll come down to a matter of opinion.

However on paper with the money we've spent, do we have a better squad, hell yes but that doesn't guarantee success,

just look at Aston Villa!  

Is there? I doubt too many fans of other clubs in the Championship look at us as a massive club, and I'm certain that 99.9% of City fans wouldn't use that term either. As for we should win most games we go in to......I've been supporting City for 30 years, only the SC season gave me that feeling, and I thank him for that, because I suspect it's a once in a lifetime feeling for fans of clubs like ours

That being said, there is certainly potential here, both in terms of fan base, and the young squad we have

But 'massive', I'm not having that. In 5 years time, when we're in Europe you can remind me of this conversation

[Red Exile]

1 hour ago, Cider-Head23 said:

I had this thought the other day, it's a good question.

Teams like Barnsley & Preston on small budgets, generally seem to be quite close knit clubs with great team spirit.

They also don't have the massive expectations that City fans seem to have about our club.

Both would happily finish mid table in the Championship, so therefore probably can play with a bit more freedom and slightly less pressure.

Where as there is a misconception that Bristol City is a massive club and we should win most games we go in to.

Of course, that isn't just it, they may well have got a lot more luck than us this season and yes they may well have better managers that'll come down to a matter of opinion.

However on paper with the money we've spent, do we have a better squad, hell yes but that doesn't guarantee success,

just look at Aston Villa!  

We've not finished as high as mid-table in the Championship in many of the seasons I've been watching us! Since we came down in 1980 we've finished 9th in 90-91; 15th 92-93; 13th 93-94; then 4th, 10th, 10th & 15th in 2008-9 to 2010-11...that's seven seasons in thirty seven years, many of them the GJ years so regularly reviled by some on here...

I'd very happily settle for following a consistently mid-table Championship side!

[Aipearcey]

They may have lost a few but have kept the heart(team spirit/winning mentallity) together in their squads and made a few additions, over the last 18 months we've ripped pretty much all of it up and started again. We may be better off in the long run of the players have the potential were told but has done us no favours short term and it appears after a year LJ still has no idea of our strongest team

[archie andrews]

7 minutes ago, Aipearcey said:

They may have lost a few but have kept the heart(team spirit/winning mentallity) together in their squads and made a few additions, over the last 18 months we've ripped pretty much all of it up and started again. We may be better off in the long run of the players have the potential were told but has done us no favours short term and it appears after a year AJ still has no idea of our strongest team

AJ ??.....have I missed something

[Aipearcey]

Sorry, auto correct on the phone

[pnefcok]

The big difference is probably the manager. Grayson has 4 promotions, Johnson hasn't achieved anything yet.

Despite having much lesser financial resources of our owner than yourselves, I think recruitment has played a big part as well as management/coaching. When we went up we kept the spine/core of the promotion team together and have added bit by bit since, and we are now seeing the benefits of that rather than overhauling.

I think teams recruit better when they just get 4-5 good ones in the summer and 1-2 good ones in January. When you buy en masse like yourselves in the summer it's very easy to spend a load of money on players who don't improve the first team.

You don't need to spend millions per player. Callum Robinson finally joined permanently for 200k in the summer and we've already rejected £2.5m from Fulham for him in January. Aiden McGeady on loan, paying a fraction of his wages. These smart deals can sometimes be better than just spending for the sake of it.

[BITW]

11 minutes ago, pnefcok said:

The big difference is probably the manager. Grayson has 4 promotions, Johnson hasn't achieved anything yet.

Despite having much lesser financial resources of our owner than yourselves, I think recruitment has played a big part as well as management/coaching. When we went up we kept the spine/core of the promotion team together and have added bit by bit since, and we are now seeing the benefits of that rather than overhauling.

I think teams recruit better when they just get 4-5 good ones in the summer and 1-2 good ones in January. When you buy en masse like yourselves in the summer it's very easy to spend a load of money on players who don't improve the first team.

You don't need to spend millions per player. Callum Robinson finally joined permanently for 200k in the summer and we've already rejected £2.5m from Fulham for him in January. Aiden McGeady on loan, paying a fraction of his wages. These smart deals can sometimes be better than just spending for the sake of it.

Robinson seems to be flying for you. Another one who was apparently not good enough for us last season, much like Liam Moore at Reading.

[Davefevs]

Liam Moore was unlucky with injuries, had a hernia op whilst here

[And Its Smith]

They have better defenders and better managers

[Jack Dawe]

2 hours ago, Cider-Head23 said:

I had this thought the other day, it's a good question.

Teams like Barnsley & Preston on small budgets, generally seem to be quite close knit clubs with great team spirit.

They also don't have the massive expectations that City fans seem to have about our club.

Both would happily finish mid table in the Championship, so therefore probably can play with a bit more freedom and slightly less pressure.

Where as there is a misconception that Bristol City is a massive club and we should win most games we go in to.

Of course, that isn't just it, they may well have got a lot more luck than us this season and yes they may well have better managers that'll come down to a matter of opinion.

However on paper with the money we've spent, do we have a better squad, hell yes but that doesn't guarantee success,

just look at Aston Villa!  

"seem" being the operative word in the highlighted sentence above, I would say. Things are not always as they "seem" to be though.

What are these "massive expectations" that , or we, have - do tell us?

Are they anything like the stated expectations and hopes of our head coach - Europa League in 5 years - and majority share holder - "challenging at the other end of the table next (ie this) season" - that have been publicly expressed in the last 15 months?

No one I know has any "expectations" for this club anywhere near to matching those of Lee Johnson or Steve Lansdown, or the club in general whose public statements - ie, when appointing Johnson a year ago - often reference the PL as the goal or the aim. They do, though, expect us to do better with what we've got than Burton and Rotherham, at the very least. Nothing "massive" in that, I would suggest.

You wouldn't be mistaking the excitable proclamations of some on this forum for the general expectations of "City fans" would you?

 

And as for the "massive club" misconception, Steve Lansdown was quoted in The Telegraph Sport section in May 2015 saying that Bristol City could be "one of the biggest clubs in the country." 

If some fans have big ideas about what this club is, and what it can achieve, is it any wonder?

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

28 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

"seem" being the operative word in the highlighted sentence above, I would say. Things are not always as they "seem" to be though.

What are these "massive expectations" that , or we, have - do tell us?

Are they anything like the stated expectations and hopes of our head coach - Europa League in 5 years - and majority share holder - "challenging at the other end of the table next (ie this) season" - that have been publicly expressed in the last 15 months?

No one I know has any "expectations" for this club anywhere near to matching those of Lee Johnson or Steve Lansdown, or the club in general whose public statements - ie, when appointing Johnson a year ago - often reference the PL as the goal or the aim. They do, though, expect us to do better with what we've got than Burton and Rotherham, at the very least. Nothing "massive" in that, I would suggest.

You wouldn't be mistaking the excitable proclamations of some on this forum for the general expectations of "City fans" would you?

 

And as for the "massive club" misconception, Steve Lansdown was quoted in The Telegraph Sport section in May 2015 saying that Bristol City could be "one of the biggest clubs in the country." 

If some fans have big ideas about what this club is, and what it can achieve, is it any wonder?

 

Excellent post JD 

[JoeAman08]

These teams don't out think themselves when it comes to signings. They know their limits and play to their strengths. McGeady and Robinson are terrific examples. McGeady has experience in different leagues but also the premier league. Robinson never got a fair deal here(the SC lovers need to look at this one) and was clearly a better player than was treated here. Same with Liam Moore. We might've got lucky with Cotterill but we always look to Europe for signings. I love that we take chances on these players but use those 3 as an example and we'd have 3 starters that would've cost less than 1.5m. 

Heckingbottom done nothing before LJ left. Grayson has an excellent CV. It doesn't make a difference because those teams play to realistic expectations. I think LJ is trying to live up to this big project that has been set out(by everyone at the club) and we are taking the smaller steps first. We seem to always out smart ourselves. We need to stay in this market or we need to buy this type of player and the here and now gets forgotten. 

I don't think our predicament is as black and white as the manager. He's plays a part for sure but there is something about the entire club that isn't quite right. I like what we are trying to achieve but perhaps it's too much too soon. Did we buy too many for the future and not focus on the now? Yes. Did we hire a young manager that hasn't proven anything in hopes he'd become a hot commodity? Yes it seems that way. The guy sounds very intelligent but he hasn't matched his words with actions. LJ is staying so I'm behind him and I hope his actions match his words soon enough but he's not helping himself and MA and SL aren't helping LJ by talking about premier league and these ambitions so soon. If we stay up, I believe we'll be much better off next season but we've seriously gambled this season with not looking 100% at this season. 

[irishreds]

3 hours ago, 8MenWith1Dream said:

The fans are sold promises, that's why. Neither Grayson, Hecky or either of their owners come out and say that they want Europa League football within five years like Johnson foolishly did earlier in the season.

Lansdown's been banging on about the Premier League ambition for years, it raises expectation. Completely their own fault.

haven't you heard Southgate ==> Howe ==> Johnson according to some on here. It's worked out very well for Barnsley. 

 

[pnefcok]

1 hour ago, BITW said:

Robinson seems to be flying for you. Another one who was apparently not good enough for us last season, much like Liam Moore at Reading.

He's a very good young player. Just didn't fit into the system for you under Cotteril. Perhaps a bit of a panic loan by him because you were struggling to get people in at the time.

[Guest Redarmy1]

Just as a boring point we've (Barnsley) now lost around 12 over the 18 players that took us up.  

Paul heckingbottom came in as caretaker manager and after one game of the players feeling sorry for themselves after the sacking of Danny Wilson , galvanised us to win a couple on the spin before the LJ appointment.  

He he seems to talk a good game does LJ but the reality is that in my opinion had us a poor manager who should've cut his teeth longer in league 1 before jumping ship.  Our board showed unswerving loyalty (allegedly this might have been contractually and allegedly might not have been in charge of the revival although still officially manager).  He could've potentially ended up been held in high regard. I don't buy all this 'I'm a bristolian' crap from him.  I went to school with Paul heckingbottom and he is a barnsley lad through and through, however I wouldn't think any less of him if he jumped ship for xx times salary more to further his career.  

My my bug bear with LJ is I feel he has an overinflated opinion of who he is and his abilities.  As I mentioned in my first post in my opinion in his head he was responsible for the miraculous turnaround in our fortunes in league 1 - not responsible for one of our worst losing runs in history.  Had we gone to league 2 he'd have wanted nothing to do with our outcome then.

 

he seems very good at coming up with an excuse but not so good at coming up with a solution!

 

 

 

 

[Spike]

8 hours ago, Turbored said:

Been racking my brain over this as well , i keep doubting myself but constantly think are our players as good as we all think they are or have we bought a load of duds...?

Then i think when these kids get to the ages they are there cant be to much coaching needed but just a case of fine tuning, guidance and good man mangement. Someone who knows how to squeeze that extra 10% of them and keep them motivated and hungry.

Or is it just a case of you cant polish a turd ... 

I don't think it's the players. You only need to look at the players we've let go to see how they've gone on to be better players. Ayling is a good example after the game against Leeds, I'd dare to say Ayling is twice the player Little is.