ontariored Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 This is not a LJ out thread. We are currently one place above the drop zone as of todays date. IMHO, it lies with the board. They take the responsibility and accountability of putting the "right", management infrastructure, policies and procedures in place. The board should / does not make emotional decisions but is distanced enough to make the "correct" decisions. If we should fail, then it is up to the board to take the appropriate actions, with the management structure and decision making within the club. Now, with respect, lay off of LJ, and ask the appropriate questions of the management at BCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonM88 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 With the squad we have it can only be Johnsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, ontariored said: This is not a LJ out thread. We are currently one place above the drop zone as of todays date. IMHO, it lies with the board. They take the responsibility and accountability of putting the "right", management infrastructure, policies and procedures in place. The board should / does not make emotional decisions but is distanced enough to make the "correct" decisions. If we should fail, then it is up to the board to take the appropriate actions, with the management structure and decision making within the club. Now, with respect, lay off of LJ, and ask the appropriate questions of the management at BCFC. Although you maybe started the thread not being about Johnson, I think by post 5, it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 IF we were to apportion blame for our current predicament, surely whoever appointed LJ would be in the firing line? Correct me if I'm wrong but surely that was Ashton wasn't it? He runs the football side after all, not Steve Lansdown. I thought SL just signs the cheques nowadays and leaves the running of his clubs to various CEO's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 No it the May's fault she so rubbish it crazy. Sack her I say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Another thread assuming relegation is a given. How depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 7 hours ago, 8menhadadream said: IF we were to apportion blame for our current predicament, surely whoever appointed LJ would be in the firing line? Correct me if I'm wrong but surely that was Ashton wasn't it? He runs the football side after all, not Steve Lansdown. I thought SL just signs the cheques nowadays and leaves the running of his clubs to various CEO's. 100% the hiring/firing decision,whomever has the last word-he's the one,see...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Purely the manager, the chairman has given him all the tools he needs, he just hasn't used them, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, Monkeh said: Purely the manager, the chairman has given him all the tools he needs, he just hasn't used them, Yet the anti LJ posters say that he should have gone weeks, if not months ago. So if that was the case then surely the blame has to go higher up the chain. Put another way - it's not up to LJ whether LJ is the manager here. If a manager takes the blame for continually picking a failing player then why would the same logic not apply at the next rung up the ladder? Is LJ a particularly good manager? On current evidence, no, but he didn't appoint (or continue to employ) himself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ploppy Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 How about instead of apportioning blame for a relegation that has not and may not yet happen we focus on supporting the team tomorrow? If the relegation does happen the inquest should start after. It's the equivalent of a doctor grieving over a patient who isn't even dead yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Your thread is a question. LJ might be the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Whose fault ? Some say the players , some say it's the coaching staff or even the owner . Others say it's the fault of the supporters for expecting too much or too little but the reality is it's all down to Ontariored and his thread about relegation. Burn The witch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Knowing when to stand by or fire your manager generally cannot be easy in football. I think one of the things that we have to accept about our owner is that (regardless of whether he makes the 'right' appointment or not) he is proving himself to be a chairman who likes to give his managers as much time as possible to turn things around in a crisis. I don't know if that is worse than a chairman who sacks at the first sign of trouble. Success often rewards stability in football, so I don't blame the board for that. I personally would rather the manager is given a few extra months so we can find out if they can steer us out the crisis. We will be stronger in the long run for it. But those few months have to stop somewhere, and for me, that end has to be very close indeed for LJ if results don't come over the next few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 9 hours ago, 8menhadadream said: IF we were to apportion blame for our current predicament, surely whoever appointed LJ would be in the firing line? Correct me if I'm wrong but surely that was Ashton wasn't it? He runs the football side after all, not Steve Lansdown. I thought SL just signs the cheques nowadays and leaves the running of his clubs to various CEO's. SL makes the big decisions, MA is just the mouthpiece. IF MA really was making such decisions I suspect LJ would have gone some time ago. It is SL, his project, and a long time wish to see LJ as the coach to deliver it, that keeps him in situ imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Not the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said: SL makes the big decisions, MA is just the mouthpiece. IF MA really was making such decisions I suspect LJ would have gone some time ago. It is SL, his project, and a long time wish to see LJ as the coach to deliver it, that keeps him in situ imo. Fair enough NtB but I thought SL works from MA's recommendations? I guess that would make both culpable. I'm in total agreement that SL has the overall veto but I wonder if we aren't underestimating MA's role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I don't think we'll get relegated, so I can't really answer the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bullbag said: Stephen Landsdown. Heso made some truly horrific decisions. And appointing Johnson as the 'outstanding candidate' was quite possibly the worst of them all. Complete shambles. Were you saying that last May when Johnson comfortably kept us up? And why is the Johnson hire worse than, say, McInnes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journalist Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 It's my fault. I've really supported Lee Johnson, but clearly it was all fake news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southvillekiddy Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 It's not the Board. Effectively we have no Board. We have an owner and our current predicament is his fault (in protecting his own position) for choosing the wrong person yet again - a person unqualified to carry out what he claims he wants for BCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillred Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Monkeh said: Purely the manager, the chairman has given him all the tools he needs, he just hasn't used them, yes a poor tool cant blame the workmen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Benjam!n Ultra Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Without a doubt it will be Lansdown's. He needs no further evidence against his bizarre decision to appoint LJ and then continue to stick with him beyond record losing streaks and a rather pathetic 3 wins in 21 or whatever it is now. He's allowing the club to sleepwalk in to League One because he doesn't have strength to admit he was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think the board, LJ and the players would have to share the responsibility. Whatever you think of the manager these players are under performing big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I'm still not convinced SL is acting alone. I appreciate he has the power to do whatever he likes but why employ someone to 'run the football side' and then walk all over him? maybe I'm being naive but I could have sworn it was MA who said LJ was the outstanding candidate and recommended him to the board / SL? Why he (LJ) is still here I have no idea but where's our football CEO when we need to hear from him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 36 minutes ago, Bullbag said: I've said it before, John Pemberton had as much to do with that as Johnson. It was Pembo that changed our shape and made us more solid. McInnes never had as much quality in his squad than what Johnson has had to work with. I agree with your second point, but you have absolutely no proof for your first. And even if it was true, you can't completely remove credit from Johnson for that or for our decent start to the season Lee Johnson is what he is; a young, inexperienced coach who is learning on the job. I don't think anyone (including himself and his boss, SL) would expect a young, inexperienced coach to be flawless in his management. Whether that's an acceptable situation to our club in our predicament right now is debateable, but too often the debate about Johnson descends into hysterical hyperbole and revisionist history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, chipdawg said: I agree with your second point, but you have absolutely no proof for your first. And even if it was true, you can't completely remove credit from Johnson for that or for our decent start to the season Lee Johnson is what he is; a young, inexperienced coach who is learning on the job. I don't think anyone (including himself and his boss, SL) would expect a young, inexperienced coach to be flawless in his management. Whether that's an acceptable situation to our club in our predicament right now is debateable, but too often the debate about Johnson descends into hysterical hyperbole and revisionist history All valid points Chipdawg but what's the potential answer then? Going down would be an absolute disaster both financially and for ambition. Should the powers that be be looking at experienced help while LJ 'learns on the job' or do they stick or twist and look the serious result of relegation square in the face? It's very concerning for the future of the club IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 If we do get relegated - which is a strong possibility if things / people don't change, responsibility:- 1) Chairman 2) Board of Directors 3) Manager 4) Players 5) Bad luck 6) Us. Apart from 5), all these people want us to do well, and it is not for want of money. The only one you can't change is 6). What is needed is a change of 3) and a bit of 4), even though we have signed 19 new players whilst 3) has been in place. Now: whose 'fault' is that? Only Happy Clappers need reply ............. tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I'm definitely no happy clapper tfj but how the hell are we, just the plain old fans, to blame in any way for this fiasco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, 8menhadadream said: All valid points Chipdawg but what's the potential answer then? Going down would be an absolute disaster both financially and for ambition. Should the powers that be be looking at experienced help while LJ 'learns on the job' or do they stick or twist and look the serious result of relegation square in the face? It's very concerning for the future of the club IMHO. I don't really have an answer, I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should probably stop trying to apportion blame because no one is really 'to blame'; LJ is just being the inexperienced, learn-on-the-job coach that he obviously is. SL/the board/Mark Ashton made a decision to take a risk that his learning curve would be sufficiently steep- at times he's looked ahead of that curve and right now he looks like he's behind it. My personal feeling is that we'll stay up with LJ in charge because we have got a bit better in recent weeks, our fixture list gets a bit better after next week and there are other teams playing poorly which means we've been able to keep our heads above water. Is it a risk to keep him in charge? Yes, absolutely. But there are no such things as sure bets in football and there is no guarantee that the new guy would make things better. My loyalty is always to BCFC, not the coach, the board or the players. But the dice were rolled a year ago or so and I think we have to keep playing the game to see if we win (or rather, don't lose) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Thompson Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 So Steve got it wrong. Tough he owns the club. If you don't like it don't go . It's not compulsory. No one at City gains by these negative tweets . We all have our views but we're talking the team and coaches down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, 8menhadadream said: I'm definitely no happy clapper tfj but how the hell are we, just the plain old fans, to blame in any way for this fiasco? That is why we are number 6) / 6) for blame i.e. last. We can always cheer a bit louder, so the fans take a small amount of blame. If you want me to be argumentative on this point, you could say we should have protested about our form more vocally, and earlier: it's our club, and we care about what happens to it. But I don't want to start an argument on OTIB. tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said: SL makes the big decisions, MA is just the mouthpiece. IF MA really was making such decisions I suspect LJ would have gone some time ago. It is SL, his project, and a long time wish to see LJ as the coach to deliver it, that keeps him in situ imo. Completely agree. By all accounts LJ had been earmarked as a future City manager from pretty much the moment he took his first steps into coaching, and Ashton was nothing to do with the club at that point. That's not to say Ashton didn't agree with the appointment at the time, but ultimately it's Lansdown who calls the shots and signs the cheques regardless of what Ashton does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, 8menhadadream said: Fair enough NtB but I thought SL works from MA's recommendations? I guess that would make both culpable. I'm in total agreement that SL has the overall veto but I wonder if we aren't underestimating MA's role? No doubt in many matters he does - MA will identify likely signings with the scouting network, negotiate transfers, contracts etc., take the day to day workload off SL by being the upbeat club spokesman in numerous off field matters - but in the case of LJ's appointment it appears SL had made his mind up he'd manage City at some stage long before MA came on the scene. It was a matter of when, not if, and in the wake of Cotts. SL clearly decided the time was right. Just a case of MA rubber stamping this one it seems to me, and of course talking up the appointment in an attempt to play down any rumblings about LJ's lack of experience and probable inadequacies. MA's strength is he speaks enthusiastically and engagingly and is a convincing wordsmith to most, and all round I expect most feel he does his job very well. But there are limits as to how far his responsibilities extend, and SL (bar SC) will always have the final word when it comes to the manager. If SL wanted LJ, and he clearly did, then MA's job was to appoint him. If MA had been employed in a similar position by another Championship club, and been given free reign to approach whoever he felt was the best man for the job, do you think he would he have targeted LJ? I don't. Why would he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 13 hours ago, ontariored said: This is not a LJ out thread. We are currently one place above the drop zone as of todays date. IMHO, it lies with the board. They take the responsibility and accountability of putting the "right", management infrastructure, policies and procedures in place. The board should / does not make emotional decisions but is distanced enough to make the "correct" decisions. If we should fail, then it is up to the board to take the appropriate actions, with the management structure and decision making within the club. Now, with respect, lay off of LJ, and ask the appropriate questions of the management at BCFC. I'm really sorry to bring this up, but do we have the right to discuss this? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, chipdawg said: I don't really have an answer, I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should probably stop trying to apportion blame because no one is really 'to blame'; LJ is just being the inexperienced, learn-on-the-job coach that he obviously is. SL/the board/Mark Ashton made a decision to take a risk that his learning curve would be sufficiently steep- at times he's looked ahead of that curve and right now he looks like he's behind it. My personal feeling is that we'll stay up with LJ in charge because we have got a bit better in recent weeks, our fixture list gets a bit better after next week and there are other teams playing poorly which means we've been able to keep our heads above water. Is it a risk to keep him in charge? Yes, absolutely. But there are no such things as sure bets in football and there is no guarantee that the new guy would make things better. My loyalty is always to BCFC, not the coach, the board or the players. But the dice were rolled a year ago or so and I think we have to keep playing the game to see if we win (or rather, don't lose) Great reply fella and well put. The gamble really is sticking or twisting and there are no guarantees that either will work. 5 minutes ago, Taxi for Johnson said: That is why we are number 6) / 6) for blame i.e. last. We can always cheer a bit louder, so the fans take a small amount of blame. If you want me to be argumentative on this point, you could say we should have protested about our form more vocally, and earlier: it's our club, and we care about what happens to it. But I don't want to start an argument on OTIB. tfj Never been called a 'number 6' before, a lot worse but never a number 6. Argument on OTIB? Perish the thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 38 minutes ago, chipdawg said: I agree with your second point, but you have absolutely no proof for your first. And even if it was true, you can't completely remove credit from Johnson for that or for our decent start to the season Lee Johnson is what he is; a young, inexperienced coach who is learning on the job. I don't think anyone (including himself and his boss, SL) would expect a young, inexperienced coach to be flawless in his management. Whether that's an acceptable situation to our club in our predicament right now is debateable, but too often the debate about Johnson descends into hysterical hyperbole and revisionist history We have a history for young inexperienced managers don't we ? Did the Coppell episode frighten SL off appointing experienced coaches ? I wonder . On reflection Cotts and SOD were a bit experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said: No doubt in many matters he does - MA will identify likely signings with the scouting network, negotiate transfers, contracts etc., take the day to day workload off SL by being the upbeat club spokesman in numerous off field matters - but in the case of LJ's appointment it appears SL had made his mind up he'd manage City at some stage long before MA came on the scene. It was a matter of when, not if, and in the wake of Cotts. SL clearly decided the time was right. Just a case of MA rubber stamping this one it seems to me, and of course talking up the appointment in an attempt to play down any rumblings about LJ's lack of experience and probable inadequacies. MA's strength is he speaks enthusiastically and engagingly and is a convincing wordsmith to most, and all round I expect most feel he does his job very well. But there are limits as to how far his responsibilities extend, and SL (bar SC) will always have the final word when it comes to the manager. If SL wanted LJ, and he clearly did, then MA's job was to appoint him. If MA had been employed in a similar position by another Championship club, and been given free reign to approach whoever he felt was the best man for the job, do you think he would he have targeted LJ? I don't. Why would he? MA was saying what 'needed to be said' to protect himself / SL then? Spin, spin and more spin. On your question, I wouldn't have thought so, he was rumoured to be all for Appleton IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jin Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 2 hours ago, chipdawg said: I don't think we'll get relegated, so I can't really answer the question Just out of curiosity, how confident are you that we'll stay up? I also think we'll stay up but it does worry me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, Northern Red said: Completely agree. By all accounts LJ had been earmarked as a future City manager from pretty much the moment he took his first steps into coaching, and Ashton was nothing to do with the club at that point. That's not to say Ashton didn't agree with the appointment at the time, but ultimately it's Lansdown who calls the shots and signs the cheques regardless of what Ashton does. It bothers me that Steve will not go for a proven manager. I am not saying he goes for the cheap option, as you have to pay - one assumes - the Championship level of any manager, just the same as a going rate for players. I smacks of control. Get in a puppet, who does as you want, and you have more 'control' over your club. Hire a strong willed and dominant manager, and you lose some control. That type of manager will want the lions share of control over signings, letting players go, squad size, formations, etc, etc. Steve seems to go for the soft option. This is why Pulis (I know ) did not stay. He could see the clubs soft underbelly, and, frankly, he was right: we have a really soft underbelly. Then look at that managers track record at small-ish Premier league clubs. It's excellent. It's a results business, so you have to get in someone who gets the bloody results - we won't do that. Chairmans right. tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Alessandro said: Knowing when to stand by or fire your manager generally cannot be easy in football. I think one of the things that we have to accept about our owner is that (regardless of whether he makes the 'right' appointment or not) he is proving himself to be a chairman who likes to give his managers as much time as possible to turn things around in a crisis. I don't know if that is worse than a chairman who sacks at the first sign of trouble. Success often rewards stability in football, so I don't blame the board for that. I personally would rather the manager is given a few extra months so we can find out if they can steer us out the crisis. We will be stronger in the long run for it. But those few months have to stop somewhere, and for me, that end has to be very close indeed for LJ if results don't come over the next few games. I would be happier if I believed that LJ was being kept on because of cold hard factual improvements and not because he was a nice bloke and an old friend of the owner . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 IF it happens then a combination of LJ and the players, criticisms can be made of LJ's team selection etc but there are performances this season where the players have to take responsibility for not getting more from games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 15 minutes ago, Bob Thompson said: So Steve got it wrong. Tough he owns the club. If you don't like it don't go . It's not compulsory. No one at City gains by these negative tweets . We all have our views but we're talking the team and coaches down. Are we 'talking the club down' Bob? I thought we were discussing where things had gone wrong TBH and discussing this and our club on our clubs discussion forum. Thanks for the advice about not attending by the way. After 42 seasons, I think I will make my own mind up on whether to attend games or not, thanks though. I take it anyone with anything but positive thoughts shouldn't go? Be a bloody small crowd tomorrow if that happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, Bob Thompson said: So Steve got it wrong. Tough he owns the club. If you don't like it don't go . It's not compulsory. No one at City gains by these negative tweets . We all have our views but we're talking the team and coaches down. I was going to Ashton Gate long before SL appeared on the scene. Just because he makes decisions I don't agree with, it's not going to stop me going, and as a football club owner, he should have broad enough shoulders to accept criticism and negativity, it's the nature of the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Just now, hodge said: IF it happens then a combination of LJ and the players, criticisms can be made of LJ's team selection etc but there are performances this season where the players have to take responsibility for not getting more from games. If you run the stationary team, and the stationary team is shit, you look at the manager or supervisor. it's his job to get the best out of the assets - no-one else. If you have given him lots of money to buy what stationary he see's fit, then there is even less excuse. Now Lee has not really blamed the players, to his great credit, so we look at him, and HIS results. LJ knows that better than any of us. tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, glynriley said: I was going to Ashton Gate long before SL appeared on the scene. Just because he makes decisions I don't agree with, it's not going to stop me going, and as a football club owner, he should have broad enough shoulders to accept criticism and negativity, it's the nature of the beast. Spot on Glyn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontariored Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 15 minutes ago, Curr Avon said: I'm really sorry to bring this up, but do we have the right to discuss this? Anyone? Good Question! Personally, I think we do; by the shear fact that this is a forum whereby individuals voice / write their opinions then I have voiced my opinion. You are correct that as the majority of us are not board members, little or no shares for voting rights, it comes back to this being a forum for opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 26 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: I would be happier if I believed that LJ was being kept on because of cold hard factual improvements and not because he was a nice bloke and an old friend of the owner . ...and the owner's son. My theory - may be wrong - has long been LJ is a long term appointment to be in place as SL gradually takes a back seat and Jon takes over. Jon takes the BCFC baton and has a long term trusted friend, about the same age, to work with. Not a terrible plan at all on the face of it, provided the coach merits the job when appointed and goes on to be at least reasonably successful of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: I would be happier if I believed that LJ was being kept on because of cold hard factual improvements and not because he was a nice bloke and an old friend of the owner . Well that's certainly an opinion that has been cultivated on OTIB. Do people honestly believe a multi-billionaire businessman who has put his hard earned millions into the club would risk that simply because it's a 'mate'? I personally think not. SL doesn't owe LJ anything, if he gets sacked he'll bounce back and be in work again soon, that's football. One concept that I find hard to understand is that a bad run makes him a 'shit' manager. Full stop. He is black listed, no come back. You can't lose as many games in a row and be a good manager ever again? Why can't you bounce back? In four months, he has gone from an intelligent, articulate, forward thinking young, albeit unproven, manager - to forever labelled 'shit'. I've even read people predicting his future management career (scraping around the lower leagues) which is just stupid, no one knows how LJ will develop or not in the future. I fully understand results have been very poor - but I suppose given the fact he doesn't have a proven CV, people are just not prepared to put mistakes down to experience, but ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Watts Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, 8menhadadream said: All valid points Chipdawg but what's the potential answer then? Going down would be an absolute disaster both financially and for ambition. Should the powers that be be looking at experienced help while LJ 'learns on the job' or do they stick or twist and look the serious result of relegation square in the face? It's very concerning for the future of the club IMHO. I see this mentioned a lot...and whilst I obviously wouldn't welcome relegation I have to ask....would it? Was it an absolute disaster last time? One season of struggle and consolidation and then one of the best seasons many of us have witnessed. Did anyone watch us beat Sheffield United and think "well that's great and all, but I wish it was Huddersfield we'd beaten"? We all enjoy victories no matter who they're against, don't we? The key would be who we manage to actually keep hold of if the unthinkable were to happen. If we were to retain everyone on the playing staff that we wanted to then on paper there's no reason to believe that we would have to have that season of consolidation. I really do think that no matter anyway what happens, LJ is going to be given the opportunity to grow in the role and we're just going along for the roller coaster ride that is supporting Bristol City! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Steve Watts said: I see this mentioned a lot...and whilst I obviously wouldn't welcome relegation I have to ask....would it? Was it an absolute disaster last time? One season of struggle and consolidation and then one of the best seasons many of us have witnessed. Did anyone watch us beat Sheffield United and think "well that's great and all, but I wish it was Huddersfield we'd beaten"? We all enjoy victories no matter who they're against, don't we? The key would be who we manage to actually keep hold of if the unthinkable were to happen. If we were to retain everyone on the playing staff that we wanted to then on paper there's no reason to believe that we would have to have that season of consolidation. I really do think that no matter anyway what happens, LJ is going to be given the opportunity to grow in the role and we're just going along for the roller coaster ride that is supporting Bristol City! With the squad we've got, their wages / costs, the drop in crowds and supposedly a £4M-£6M drop in revenues (no idea if that's an accurate figure TBH, just read it somewhere), I would say it's a bit of a blow financially TBH Steve. It would probably mean we would have to 'clear the decks' again with players leaving for much less than their value, once again a financial hit and then another squad rebuild. I don't know about you but I think that's a pretty bad situation WTGR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 41 minutes ago, Taxi for Johnson said: If you run the stationary team, and the stationary team is shit, you look at the manager or supervisor. it's his job to get the best out of the assets - no-one else. If you have given him lots of money to buy what stationary he see's fit, then there is even less excuse. Now Lee has not really blamed the players, to his great credit, so we look at him, and HIS results. LJ knows that better than any of us. tfj And in other areas of work if workers aren't pulling their weight and meeting targets they're the ones let go, I'm not defending LJ he probably needs to go even if we stay up but the amount of points we've let slip where its been player mistakes that have cost us points rather than Johnson's tactics would probably see us in a much safer position in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Watts Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 15 minutes ago, 8menhadadream said: With the squad we've got, their wages / costs, the drop in crowds and supposedly a £4M-£6M drop in revenues (no idea if that's an accurate figure TBH, just read it somewhere), I would say it's a bit of a blow financially TBH Steve. It would probably mean we would have to 'clear the decks' again with players leaving for much less than their value, once again a financial hit and then another squad rebuild. I don't know about you but I think that's a pretty bad situation WTGR. But who would it be a blow to? FFP doesn't apply to league one and SL will underwrite the losses as he has before, without affecting our spending power. It would obviously make us a less attractive proposition to potential signings, granted, but I don't think we'd be forced to sell anyone. We weren't last time. Those that left when we went down last time were those that chose to, not that we could no longer afford. SL is the only one who takes a financial hit and he's shown time and again that he's prepared to do so. As I said, I obviously don't want us to go down, and I still don't believe we will in any case. I just think that people overplay the disaster scenario when recent history under SL shows that to not be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Steve Watts said: But who would it be a blow to? FFP doesn't apply to league one and SL will underwrite the losses as he has before, without affecting our spending power. It would obviously make us a less attractive proposition to potential signings, granted, but I don't think we'd be forced to sell anyone. We weren't last time. Those that left when we went down last time were those that chose to, not that we could no longer afford. SL is the only one who takes a financial hit and he's shown time and again that he's prepared to do so. As I said, I obviously don't want us to go down, and I still don't believe we will in any case. I just think that people overplay the disaster scenario when recent history under SL shows that to not be the case. Good reply Steve but I'm sure we would all like SL to be ploughing some of his undoubted wealth into strengthening a Championship squad rather than underwriting further debt to sustain the existing squad in the division below? Surely that's a real setback? I have no reason to doubt that he would continue but it's an unsustainable model long term isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray White Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Lansdown and who ever else sits on the board with him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Massively blame the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 15 hours ago, ontariored said: This is not a LJ out thread. We are currently one place above the drop zone as of todays date. IMHO, it lies with the board. They take the responsibility and accountability of putting the "right", management infrastructure, policies and procedures in place. The board should / does not make emotional decisions but is distanced enough to make the "correct" decisions. If we should fail, then it is up to the board to take the appropriate actions, with the management structure and decision making within the club. Now, with respect, lay off of LJ, and ask the appropriate questions of the management at BCFC. Interesting one. Unless something changes we will go down. However that change may be forced upon us as TA is not available and forces a two up situation or at very least a change in style that could make us less predictable. The board at BCFC effectively only exist because SL say it does and effectively does not make decisions that effect anything big without a Webex with SL. ERGO the board is a puppet. If we go down 90% of the responsibility will lay with LJ. This squad should be no where near bottom three. There are other elements Ashton (now vacationing with Shergar and lord Lucan) talks complete toss and has gone along and supported crap decisions. However SL MADE THE APPOINTMENT. He is not responsible for the relegation battle but he is wholly responsible for putting LJ in place that has lead to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 2 hours ago, CityLew said: Just out of curiosity, how confident are you that we'll stay up? I also think we'll stay up but it does worry me. I would say "fairly", but I won't be betting significant cash on it. It's a different situation to our previous relegation seasons; we have a better squad, we're trying to keep out of the mire (or at least the most horrible part of it) rather than trying to escape it and (and I accept this is pure superstition) I feel that we've had our awful run and others are losing form or are not going to sustain the upturn. At the end of the day, play like we did against Wednesday, an hour at Derby, or even second half at Leeds, we'll pick up points against a lot of teams. I think we'll remain inconsistent but I think we'll pick up enough points to maybe finish 16-20th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Taxi for Johnson said: It bothers me that Steve will not go for a proven manager. I am not saying he goes for the cheap option, as you have to pay - one assumes - the Championship level of any manager, just the same as a going rate for players. I smacks of control. Get in a puppet, who does as you want, and you have more 'control' over your club. Hire a strong willed and dominant manager, and you lose some control. That type of manager will want the lions share of control over signings, letting players go, squad size, formations, etc, etc. Steve seems to go for the soft option. This is why Pulis (I know ) did not stay. He could see the clubs soft underbelly, and, frankly, he was right: we have a really soft underbelly. Then look at that managers track record at small-ish Premier league clubs. It's excellent. It's a results business, so you have to get in someone who gets the bloody results - we won't do that. Chairmans right. tfj what like steve coppell or shaun o'driscall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Hankey Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Mark Ashton will be the one left hung out to dry by the man who is ultimately responsible for letting this fiasco rumble on. In fact, regardless of whatever division we end up in i still see LJ here but not Ashton come July, which will be a damn shame, think Ashton has done a hell of a lot of good and don't for one minute believe he would of appointed LJ if he wasn't told to by a certain someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinredrobin Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Bullbag said: I've said it before, John Pemberton had as much to do with that as Johnson. It was Pembo that changed our shape and made us more solid. McInnes never had as much quality in his squad than what Johnson has had to work with. Really ? do you mean that comment about the quality of McInnes Squad versus today's squad ? McInnes had the following players - who if on form - I would LOVE in today's team : Cisse / Skuse / Bolasie /Carey / Adomah /Pitman /Stead / Chris Wood ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Watts Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Taxi for Johnson said: It bothers me that Steve will not go for a proven manager. I am not saying he goes for the cheap option, as you have to pay - one assumes - the Championship level of any manager, just the same as a going rate for players. I smacks of control. Get in a puppet, who does as you want, and you have more 'control' over your club. Hire a strong willed and dominant manager, and you lose some control. That type of manager will want the lions share of control over signings, letting players go, squad size, formations, etc, etc. Steve seems to go for the soft option. This is why Pulis (I know ) did not stay. He could see the clubs soft underbelly, and, frankly, he was right: we have a really soft underbelly. Then look at that managers track record at small-ish Premier league clubs. It's excellent. It's a results business, so you have to get in someone who gets the bloody results - we won't do that. Chairmans right. Only SL wasn't chairman when Pulis was here. That was Davidson. Not sure that's really something that can be leveled at SL. And Let's be honest there wasn't one disappointed person when that individual went to Pompey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Steve Watts said: I see this mentioned a lot...and whilst I obviously wouldn't welcome relegation I have to ask....would it? Was it an absolute disaster last time? One season of struggle and consolidation and then one of the best seasons many of us have witnessed. Did anyone watch us beat Sheffield United and think "well that's great and all, but I wish it was Huddersfield we'd beaten"? We all enjoy victories no matter who they're against, don't we? The key would be who we manage to actually keep hold of if the unthinkable were to happen. If we were to retain everyone on the playing staff that we wanted to then on paper there's no reason to believe that we would have to have that season of consolidation. I really do think that no matter anyway what happens, LJ is going to be given the opportunity to grow in the role and we're just going along for the roller coaster ride that is supporting Bristol City! If this is the case, then why did we sack SC!. After all, I would have had far more confidence in SC getting us straight back up than I do in LJ doing the same. Im sorry, relegation would be a disaster. SL has not let LJ spend 15 million plus on players in the understanding that they will lead us to League one. The manager has been given the tools to work with, at the moment it's clear that he isn't capable of managing/coaching these tools into a good decent team, a team that wins more than one game in 15. The required aim is for us to become a club that can hold its own in the Championship, relegation is not part of the 'project'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desert Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 It's the managers fault that we are under performing on the pitch. It's the chairman's fault that he's still here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Benjam!n Ultra said: Without a doubt it will be Lansdown's. He needs no further evidence against his bizarre decision to appoint LJ and then continue to stick with him beyond record losing streaks and a rather pathetic 3 wins in 21 or whatever it is now. He's allowing the club to sleepwalk in to League One because he doesn't have strength to admit he was wrong. Shall we all ask him to ***k off and hope the Venkys can do a swap? or maybe if we're lucky that lot at Cov could come in and do a real good job for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin_unreliant Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Isn't there a limit on the amount you can spend on wages in L1? Seem to recall someone, who clearly knows more than me, saying we are limited to a % of turnover. Which would presumably force us into selling a number of our best players and make it tough to come straight back up. Really can't face the thought of having to dismantle the squad and start over yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 "Calm down, calm down" everyone. Jesus. I think THIS puts EVERYTHING into it's proper perspective:- .......... see what I mean - love trumps hate everytime. tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Benjam!n Ultra Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 48 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said: Shall we all ask him to ***k off and hope the Venkys can do a swap? or maybe if we're lucky that lot at Cov could come in and do a real good job for us What are you talking about? This isn't a dictatorship he can be questioned and has been recently and rightly. Putting blame against him doesn't mean we should start considering him against two of the worst owners in the league and then just accept it could be worse - as a supporter I want to see and dream of seeing City being the best in the world. Sleepwalking back to L1 after over £12m spent this year is pathetic and deserves to be questioned. Venkys have spent less than £1m this season and are only 3 points behind us seeing as you mention them,though - but I'm sure there's things like bad luck or bad refereeing we can find to blame instead, not our dear leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 10 minutes ago, Benjam!n Ultra said: What are you talking about? This isn't a dictatorship he can be questioned and has been recently and rightly. Putting blame against him doesn't mean we should start considering him against two of the worst owners in the league and then just accept it could be worse - as a supporter I want to see and dream of seeing City being the best in the world. Sleepwalking back to L1 after over £12m spent this year is pathetic and deserves to be questioned. Venkys have spent less than £1m this season and are only 3 points behind us seeing as you mention them,though - but I'm sure there's things like bad luck or bad refereeing we can find to blame instead, not our dear leader. I totally respect your views, and of course he is not beyond critisism, BUT he has done a bloody lot for this football club. For your information, I am one of those that would gladly see the back of LJ as manager after such poor results, but I accept that it isn't gonna be my decision to make. It is only a bleeding relagation battle, no one has died ffs. I'm not saying you personally, but there are people on here who are acting like spoilt kids just because they can't immediately have their way . I say to all.. get behind the team tomorrow as we did Vs Wednesday and not AT them like in the Rotherham game. Even if you don't want Johnson long-term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoniaTallinnRed Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 6 hours ago, 8menhadadream said: I'm definitely no happy clapper tfj but how the hell are we, just the plain old fans, to blame in any way for this fiasco? By not shouting and singing loud enough, I would sing and shout from here, but unfortunately they can't hear me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Ok, Ok... when it comes down to it, it's always the parents fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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