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Bootroom dynamics disturbed by Holden's arrival?


headhunter

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Is it just coincidence that our marked downturn in from aligns with Dean Holden joining the City backroom staff.

He was very much LJ's appointment [worked together at Oldham] and at the time I'm sure we had some Walsall fans who said they would drive him down here to get him out of their club!!

Team dynamics off the field are as important as those on it and whilst I cannot comment on how good or  otherwise Pembo is there is no doubt he was liked and respected by the squad. Right now I think he may just be keeping his head down being thankful he is still in a job. I really think it was a shame that Wade Elliott left the club in the summer. Did he go or was he pushed. Three years older than LJ with a far more impressive playing record and understanding of championship football, albeit not as a manager , I cannot see how he would have done a worse job given the chance..

Back to Holden  - nothing to lose by booting him NOW and free up some cash to make the change that for me is the only we we can survive and at the same time appease SL's Johnson love in and that is get in some experienced help and I don't mean Millen.

John Ward was a proud man and did the decent thing in 1998 by resigning when the board brought in Benny L to assist him just as he was turning things around. How would LJ react Jordan, Redknapp or Pardew came in on financially lucrative 3 month contracts with the sole brief of keeping us in the Championship. Beyond May, who knows.

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City was playing poorly before Holden arrived but in many matches Tammy's goals saved the day. This couldn't go on for ever, and it hasn't. The signs have been there all season, but the only person who can't see them is SL. 

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31 minutes ago, Bob Thompson said:

Does anybody know the actual responsibilities of the coaches regarding the first team players?

what confuses me is our GK coach Steve Coles, what does he really bring to the party, out on warm ups before every match, yet our GK positions this season have always been cause for concern

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1 minute ago, Bob Thompson said:

Doesn't answer my question but at least Coles won't feel left out now. Everyone else has been blamed during the last few months. I blame Scot Murray and the ball boys.!

especially that ball boy who got Cotterill booked :laughcont:

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Although without talking to all the players and observing Holden's training sessions (and knowing a bit about the subject) it's difficult to be sure, it does seem likely the OP is right.

The timing of our collapse just seems too much of a coincidence. It sees too segue neatly with Holden's arrival. 

Remember the quick, crisp passing of the early part of this season and the players going forward as a team. Remember the defence dealing with threats before they got serious.

It seems so long ago. :-(

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Our metrics were pretty good for the first 3 months- our underlying numbers were pretty good in general. The Blackburn game was atrocious though, absolutely atrocious- felt flat all round, a strange sort of day. Just put it down to that at the time I did...anyway up to anc including Barnsley away?

  • In those 1st 15 games we averaged about 52% possession.
  • Shots on target was on the low side- 66 in 15 games, poor indeed.
  • Then again we hit the woodwork 6 times in those 15. Notably at Sheffield Wednesday when we missed a pen and lost control of the game there and then.
  • Conceded 56 shots on target in 15 games- VERY good underlying numbers, less than 4 a game. Need a high conversion rate against you for things to go badly.
  • Had teams strike the woodwork 7 times against us.
  • Goals for- 22. Goals against- 16.

So definitely in and around the top 6 flattered us but it wasn't anywhere near as poor as people make out. Certainly is not a bottom 4 side that- could argue lower midtable, upper midtable but not our current predicament.  When Holden joined we had just lost to Brighton but were still pretty good, pretty soild overall. Think another way we fell off was  a lack of draws- seems for a lot of the season, a lot of LJ's reign it's either been win or bust, few draws to steady the ship, reassure frayed nerves and the like.

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41 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said:

what confuses me is our GK coach Steve Coles, what does he really bring to the party, out on warm ups before every match, yet our GK positions this season have always been cause for concern

Dave Coles

Ex Southampton keeping coach

Dont know anything about him personally but sure I read someone's comments on here that he's well thought of as a keeping coach

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2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Dave Coles

Ex Southampton keeping coach

Dont know anything about him personally but sure I read someone's comments on here that he's well thought of as a keeping coach

 

On 01/02/2017 at 14:47, Kid in the Riot said:

Dave Coles is a very well respected goalkeeping coach, which makes it all the more baffling that we've had such goalkeeping problems this year.

KITR looks to know a bit more about him

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1 hour ago, Bob Thompson said:

Does anybody know the actual responsibilities of the coaches regarding the first team players?

Rumour has it that Pembo is defence coach. Holden is attacking coach. LJ picks out players who need 1 on 1 coaching and works with them as well as overseeing all other training.

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8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Dave Coles

Ex Southampton keeping coach

Dont know anything about him personally but sure I read someone's comments on here that he's well thought of as a keeping coach

sorry know a Steve Coles locally, senior moment :ill:

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11 hours ago, headhunter said:

Is it just coincidence that our marked downturn in from aligns with Dean Holden joining the City backroom staff.

He was very much LJ's appointment [worked together at Oldham] and at the time I'm sure we had some Walsall fans who said they would drive him down here to get him out of their club!!

Team dynamics off the field are as important as those on it and whilst I cannot comment on how good or  otherwise Pembo is there is no doubt he was liked and respected by the squad. Right now I think he may just be keeping his head down being thankful he is still in a job. I really think it was a shame that Wade Elliott left the club in the summer. Did he go or was he pushed. Three years older than LJ with a far more impressive playing record and understanding of championship football, albeit not as a manager , I cannot see how he would have done a worse job given the chance..

Back to Holden  - nothing to lose by booting him NOW and free up some cash to make the change that for me is the only we we can survive and at the same time appease SL's Johnson love in and that is get in some experienced help and I don't mean Millen.

John Ward was a proud man and did the decent thing in 1998 by resigning when the board brought in Benny L to assist him just as he was turning things around. How would LJ react Jordan, Redknapp or Pardew came in on financially lucrative 3 month contracts with the sole brief of keeping us in the Championship. Beyond May, who knows.

Of course all is speculation, but you could see a scenario where the good cop (assistant) / bad cop (head coach) dynamic is disrupted by bringing in a good cop who is close to / professional mate of the the bad cop.

In this, would a player feel like he can't go to the good cop with any issues if he thinks it might go straight to bad cop, especially if a problem is with bad cop.  Things then fester.

Only using the above as an example.

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11 hours ago, headhunter said:

John Ward was a proud man and did the decent thing in 1998 by resigning when the board brought in Benny L to assist him just as he was turning things around. How would LJ react Jordan, Redknapp or Pardew came in on financially lucrative 3 month contracts with the sole brief of keeping us in the Championship. Beyond May, who knows.

Not overly important but Ward resigned after they brought in Benny and not who he wanted and asked for -  Ray Hartford (RIP) 

He went to the board and sad he wasn't confident about Championship Level and wanted Ray Hartford to come in and help and add that experience - I admire him for his honesty

Unfortunately the board saw that as a negative , decided to bring in their own man , and JW resigned

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1 hour ago, Septic Peg said:

Rumour has it that Pembo is defence coach. Holden is attacking coach. LJ picks out players who need 1 on 1 coaching and works with them as well as overseeing all other training.

He was a defender in his playing career so coaching the forwards for him is a bit like Alan Shearer coaching defenders

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3 minutes ago, headhunter said:

He was a defender in his playing career so coaching the forwards for him is a bit like Alan Shearer coaching defenders

Always thought this slightly strange , if true (I.e. Holden works with the forwards)

Pembo was also a defender of course

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2 minutes ago, headhunter said:

He was a defender in his playing career so coaching the forwards for him is a bit like Alan Shearer coaching defenders

I get that, but sometimes it makes sense, e.g. He'll know what defenders don't like.  It's not as black and white as what positions did they play.

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