So, Taylor Moore....

[Antman]

...the lad signed for not a small amount £1M+ and has spent one year of his 3 (?) year contract on loan, year 2 looking like it will be on loan, so why did we sign him?

he's not really featured in the friendlies, its not looking great with players in front of him in his main roles - just don't get why we spent that much.

[RT's Vaseline Tub]

No chance of making it here as not up to scratch. Flattered to deceive at Bury even.

[Kodjias Wrist]

Just now, Derek from Nailsea said:

No chance of making it here as not up to scratch. Flattered to deceive at Bury even.

I thought he had a good spell with Bury based on the threads on their forum. Where have you heard/seen this?

[Big Red Rich]

Johnson.

[David Brent]

Would be nice to hear Lee's plans for Moore, and Vyner. 

[Bar BS3]

25 minutes ago, Antman said:

...the lad signed for not a small amount £1M+ and has spent one year of his 3 (?) year contract on loan, year 2 looking like it will be on loan, so why did we sign him?

he's not really featured in the friendlies, its not looking great with players in front of him in his main roles - just don't get why we spent that much.

Yep, let's stop his development and stick him in our first team, to play at a level that he's not ready for yet..! 

[RedRoss]

We bought him as a prospect that was supposed to be knocking on the door but doesn't seem there yet.

People always draw on the value of the player -  Yes we want a return but not all transfers will come off well (even this may still do!) 

It happens all the time in football i.e. Omar Bogle, Tom Bradshaw ect. 

 

[Agard Days Night]

27 minutes ago, Antman said:

...the lad signed for not a small amount £1M+ and has spent one year of his 3 (?) year contract on loan, year 2 looking like it will be on loan, so why did we sign him?

he's not really featured in the friendlies, its not looking great with players in front of him in his main roles - just don't get why we spent that much.

Paid market value for a promising young player? 

[Robbored]

The lad obviously has ability but it seems he's not yet upto Sky Bet Championship quality as yet. The loan at Bury will have given him crucial experience of men's league football.

Its up LJ and the coaching staff to decide when he's ready and given his tender years that might not be for a while yet so it makes perfect sense to let go out on loan again, possibly at a higher league than Bury to gain even more experience of league football.

When he returns City will have benefited by having a better and more experienced defender. On the books.

[simon uk]

Dont forget the club policy of buying players for 7 figure fees, not giving them a chance and then buying 2 or 3 replacements, until we have a squad of about 35. Eventually they find a player they like and its all fine, everyones a winner.

[Roger Red Hat]

23 minutes ago, Derek from Nailsea said:

No chance of making it here as not up to scratch. Flattered to deceive at Bury even.

Where's this information from?

[The Nest Egg]

31 minutes ago, Derek from Nailsea said:

No chance of making it here as not up to scratch. Flattered to deceive at Bury even.

This is unfair on Taylor. He spent quite a bit of time up there playing RWB, which he simply does not have the pace to do. That being said, he did show weaknesses that demonstrate he is not ready for this level yet. We must not write him off now, but rather we must send him on loan somewhere for the whole season instead of messing him about and then shipping him off to some team in January. I want him to do well, but he is not yet ready for this level and would benefit from playing his favoured CB position at a higher L1 club

[WhistleHappy]

35 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The lad obviously has ability but it seems he's not yet upto Sky Bet Championship quality as yet. The loan at Bury will have given him crucial experience of men's league football.

Its up LJ and the coaching staff to decide when he's ready and given his tender years that might not be for a while yet so it makes perfect sense to let go out on loan again, possibly at a higher league than Bury to gain even more experience of league football.

When he returns City will have benefited by having a better and more experienced defender. On the books.

Just to be clear... Sky Bet Championship ?

that's   S  B  C  yeah?  

PS agree on Moore

.... as 'one for the future' all seems to be going to plan so far, slowly maturing and theres nothing to say he won't deserve another year or two extension if improvement continues - not a bad gamble. 

If he does make the grade here he'll be an asset, if he does 'so so' here and makes a few first team appearances before we move him on the chances are it'll then be for a profit... What have we got to lose?  percentage of a £million or so at worst, which won't amount to too much in football money these days..  And if the punt comes off and he really does well, we'll be mega quids in when the big clubs come knocking on our door ...  of course WE may be a BIG CLUB by then ourselves!

 

[City fan 1982]

And the Taylor Moore who is good enough to captain England under 20 s.  , but not good enough for a annually relegation threatened team ? 

[Londoner]

2 minutes ago, kivsy said:

And the Taylor Moore who is good enough to captain England under 20 s.  , but not good enough for a annually relegation threatened team ? 

This post displays a clear lack of knowledge and understanding.

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, kivsy said:

And the Taylor Moore who is good enough to captain England under 20 s.  , but not good enough for a annually relegation threatened team ? 

Big difference in the opposition. U20s boys and the Sky Bet Championship is a massive step up In quality 

[City fan 1982]

There has been plenty of players aged 16 to 19. Who have made premier league , or championship debuts , done well, then possibly sold on , at bigger clubs than city  

[funky monkey]

its down to moore to prove himself. the money spent on him was always a risk when you buy a youngster but a calculated risk. they don't all work out but in this current market nobody is cheap and we done well to get him. you win some you lose some but you gotta be in it to win it...ala kodjia

[Jack Dawe]

10 minutes ago, Londoner said:

This post displays a clear lack of knowledge and understanding.

Tell me about it.   "...a annually...."?!!  What next?  "... a academic"?

[Spoons]

Love the fact armchair fans writing off talyor-Moore without even seeing him play!!

Ive seen very little, you tube footage of him playing at lens and bits from his loan spell at bury and of course his limited appearances for city.

But how about we judge him after a run of games? He's clearly got talent. 

[Fordy62]

27 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Big difference in the opposition. U20s boys and the Sky Bet Championship is a massive step up In quality 

Is saying "Sky Bet Championship" or the related acronym part of your trolling repertoire?

i can't think of any other reason a grown man would say such a thing. 

[cheshire_red]

Has to fulfil his sponsorship requirements you know

[BRISTOL86]

Don't see the problem personally. Not quite ready for Championship football week in week out and will probably be a better player for another year out on loan in England. 

 

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Is saying "Sky Bet Championship" or the related acronym part of your trolling repertoire?

i can't think of any other reason a grown man would say such a thing. 

So you can't think of a reason why I post S B C?   

As you correctly say it's an acronym of the league City play in and is far easier and quicker to post that typing it.

[Agard Days Night]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

So you can't think of a reason why I post S B C?   

As you correctly say it's an acronym of the league City play in and is far easier and quicker to post that typing it.

Would you not just say Championship? 

[Redbo]

2 minutes ago, Agard Days Night said:

Would you not just say Championship? 

But which Championship?

[Bar BS3]

38 minutes ago, kivsy said:

There has been plenty of players aged 16 to 19. Who have made premier league , or championship debuts , done well, then possibly sold on , at bigger clubs than city  

How many of those players have been Taylor-Moore..?! 

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, Agard Days Night said:

Would you not just say Championship? 

Too long.

[Fordy62]

Just now, Robbored said:

Too long.

2 lng. 

[Davefevs]

Of all the 'not quite ready' signings from last summer and I include Brownhill and Engvall to O'Dowda, Moore (himself) and Di Girolamo, I think Moore will go on to be the best.  That's difficult to quantify I know, especially when GE and COD have played full internationals, but England cap is a different kettle of fish.

Some of the comments above are interesting:

- no pace - not what I've seen or what I've heard, pace is one of his assets.

- didn't do much at Bury - their GiggLane forum were impressed with him, especially as he was played at RWB predominantly.  They were a struggling side in the relegation zone and without regurgitating stats I've posted previously, their points tally per game went up massively and goals conceded per game dropped significantly

He appears to have filled out over the summer too.  Centre Back is a difficult position to be trusted in as a youngster, especially a slight one.  Some 19 year olds are men at 19, some aren't.

We seem to be in an awful rush on this forum to make snap judgements on players.  I suspect some posters have never actually seen him play.  Those snap judgements are also black and white - 'best thing since sliced bread' or 'Downs `League at best'.  99% are somewhere in between.  I'll give you Bas Savage though! 

Its gonna be tough for TM, but doors open unexpectedly.

Flint is off - let's assume.

Baker suspended for Barnsley, nor up to speed.

What if Wright or Magnússon or Hegeler have a 'mare or get injured, or suspended - all of a sudden he's in the frame.

Got 2 seasons left on his contract - why rush? 

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Of all the 'not quite ready' signings from last summer and I include Brownhill and Engvall to O'Dowda, Moore (himself) and Di Girolamo, I think Moore will go on to be the best.  That's difficult to quantify I know, especially when GE and COD have played full internationals, but England cap is a different kettle of fish.

Some of the comments above are interesting:

- no pace - not what I've seen or what I've heard, pace is one of his assets.

- didn't do much at Bury - their GiggLane forum were impressed with him, especially as he was played at RWB predominantly.  They were a struggling side in the relegation zone and without regurgitating stats I've posted previously, their points tally per game went up massively and goals conceded per game dropped significantly

He appears to have filled out over the summer too.  Centre Back is a difficult position to be trusted in as a youngster, especially a slight one.  Some 19 year olds are men at 19, some aren't.

We seem to be in an awful rush on this forum to make snap judgements on players.  I suspect some posters have never actually seen him play.  Those snap judgements are also black and white - 'best thing since sliced bread' or 'Downs `League at best'.  99% are somewhere in between.  I'll give you Bas Savage though! 

Its gonna be tough for TM, but doors open unexpectedly.

Flint is off - let's assume.

Baker suspended for Barnsley, nor up to speed.

What if Wright or Magnússon or Hegeler have a 'mare or get injured, or suspended - all of a sudden he's in the frame.

Got 2 seasons left on his contract - why rush? 

Interesting post but a big call saying he'll go on to be the best considering we've barely had a chance to watch him. 

For what it's worth I think Brownhill will go onto he the best but based on last night I think O'Dowda will have a good season.

[Bar BS3]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Of all the 'not quite ready' signings from last summer and I include Brownhill and Engvall to O'Dowda, Moore (himself) and Di Girolamo, I think Moore will go on to be the best.  That's difficult to quantify I know, especially when GE and COD have played full internationals, but England cap is a different kettle of fish.

Some of the comments above are interesting:

- no pace - not what I've seen or what I've heard, pace is one of his assets.

- didn't do much at Bury - their GiggLane forum were impressed with him, especially as he was played at RWB predominantly.  They were a struggling side in the relegation zone and without regurgitating stats I've posted previously, their points tally per game went up massively and goals conceded per game dropped significantly

He appears to have filled out over the summer too.  Centre Back is a difficult position to be trusted in as a youngster, especially a slight one.  Some 19 year olds are men at 19, some aren't.

We seem to be in an awful rush on this forum to make snap judgements on players.  I suspect some posters have never actually seen him play.  Those snap judgements are also black and white - 'best thing since sliced bread' or 'Downs `League at best'.  99% are somewhere in between.  I'll give you Bas Savage though! 

Its gonna be tough for TM, but doors open unexpectedly.

Flint is off - let's assume.

Baker suspended for Barnsley, nor up to speed.

What if Wright or Magnússon or Hegeler have a 'mare or get injured, or suspended - all of a sudden he's in the frame.

Got 2 seasons left on his contract - why rush? 

That kind of thought process doesn't leave much room for a dig at LJ though, does it..!

[JoeAman08]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Of all the 'not quite ready' signings from last summer and I include Brownhill and Engvall to O'Dowda, Moore (himself) and Di Girolamo, I think Moore will go on to be the best.  That's difficult to quantify I know, especially when GE and COD have played full internationals, but England cap is a different kettle of fish.

Some of the comments above are interesting:

- no pace - not what I've seen or what I've heard, pace is one of his assets.

- didn't do much at Bury - their GiggLane forum were impressed with him, especially as he was played at RWB predominantly.  They were a struggling side in the relegation zone and without regurgitating stats I've posted previously, their points tally per game went up massively and goals conceded per game dropped significantly

He appears to have filled out over the summer too.  Centre Back is a difficult position to be trusted in as a youngster, especially a slight one.  Some 19 year olds are men at 19, some aren't.

We seem to be in an awful rush on this forum to make snap judgements on players.  I suspect some posters have never actually seen him play.  Those snap judgements are also black and white - 'best thing since sliced bread' or 'Downs `League at best'.  99% are somewhere in between.  I'll give you Bas Savage though! 

Its gonna be tough for TM, but doors open unexpectedly.

Flint is off - let's assume.

Baker suspended for Barnsley, nor up to speed.

What if Wright or Magnússon or Hegeler have a 'mare or get injured, or suspended - all of a sudden he's in the frame.

Got 2 seasons left on his contract - why rush? 

I agree with you though I'd probably loan him out again. L1 somewhere they'll play him 46 games at CB. That would be my preference anyway. Or do the half year loan for him then half year loan for Vyner. Either way, he's a clear talent(in my mind) but you don't get many CBs in the championship that are 20 years old. I'd like to see him get a handful of appearances though but it may not be possible so a loan would be ideal. Do Portsmouth or Plymouth need a CB? That would be the ideal loan for me 

[Agard Days Night]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Too long.

But shorter than Sky Bet Championship? 

[Agard Days Night]

15 minutes ago, Redbo said:

But which Championship?

Sky Bet Champion... Oh. @Robbored was right all along. 

[Guest JEP]

If the long term goal is to play him at right back, is Pisano's age not perfect to phase him out and Moore in the next few years?

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, Agard Days Night said:

But shorter than Sky Bet Championship? 

I used S. B. c as a short cut. No other reason.

Now, like my z z z z z z z s the acronym has been autocorrected.

Shame imv.

[RT's Vaseline Tub]

59 minutes ago, kivsy said:

There has been plenty of players aged 16 to 19. Who have made premier league , or championship debuts , done well, then possibly sold on , at bigger clubs than city  

Indeed CAULKER was 18 when he played for us and walked the player of the year award so if you're good enough...

Like Morrell at Cheltenham - he ran the show.

[Davefevs]

@JoeAman08 - half season loan to a Lg1 team would be good, and yes at CB. So, yes, agree.

@Phileas Fogg - yep, from the brief watches at RB and Hull at CB I saw calmness, composure.....and pace, as well as good awareness of danger in central positions in the Hull game.  I thought he anticipated danger in behind Flint, even though Flint won the ball.  That is a good attribute.  Some CBs only see danger when it's happened.  By then its often too late, or you expose yourself into making last ditch tackles. I don't see him as a ball winning CB, but the one who drops off.

@Derek from Nailsea - Caulker - a fully developed man at 18, see below...looks 22/23 imho

[RT's Vaseline Tub]

49 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Love the fact armchair fans writing off talyor-Moore without even seeing him play!!

Ive seen very little, you tube footage of him playing at lens and bits from his loan spell at bury and of course his limited appearances for city.

But how about we judge him after a run of games? He's clearly got talent. 

Didn't do a lot in his 25 mins at Cheltenham whereas Lloyd Kelly was pretty decent on the left.

[joe jordans teeth]

13 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I agree with you though I'd probably loan him out again. L1 somewhere they'll play him 46 games at CB. That would be my preference anyway. Or do the half year loan for him then half year loan for Vyner. Either way, he's a clear talent(in my mind) but you don't get many CBs in the championship that are 20 years old. I'd like to see him get a handful of appearances though but it may not be possible so a loan would be ideal. Do Portsmouth or Plymouth need a CB? That would be the ideal loan for me 

Half year loan makes sense in case he isn't playing,as for Pompey and Plymouth they are clubs who will be looking to push forward so wouldn't be able to guarantee him games,guess a Newport or Cheltenham as per normal 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

It's absolutely crucial that we always make sure that  we sign  talented youngsters and play him in the first team in order to prove he was never good enough at this level and meanwhile sign expensive experience in order to criticise the club's waste of time and money signing young potential .

Is there anyfink I've missed?

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Derek from Nailsea said:

Didn't do a lot in his 25 mins at Cheltenham whereas Lloyd Kelly was pretty decent on the left.

And that's an unrealistically tiny sample size 

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, Derek from Nailsea said:

Didn't do a lot in his 25 mins at Cheltenham whereas Lloyd Kelly was pretty decent on the left.

I'm guessing that he wasn't up against much. 

[cheshire_red]

40 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Too long.

In your dreams

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

16 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

And that's an unrealistically tiny sample size 

 

14 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Ah yeah, 25 minutes in a friendly is the perfect amount of time to judge a player.

 

[JoeAman08]

28 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Half year loan makes sense in case he isn't playing,as for Pompey and Plymouth they are clubs who will be looking to push forward so wouldn't be able to guarantee him games,guess a Newport or Cheltenham as per normal 

Wouldn't make much sense to go to struggling league 2 sides considering he excelled in a L1 side. The clubs mentioned are looking to push on but have only both just come up as well. Plymouth especially I think could do with a link to us. It seems we are more focused on youth and could benefit them in the long run. Taylor Moore would be a good CB in L1. Im not sure what they've got in terms of CBs at those clubs but Taylor Moore would be one of the more talented players as soon as he stepped on the pitch. 

[joe jordans teeth]

9 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Wouldn't make much sense to go to struggling league 2 sides considering he excelled in a L1 side. The clubs mentioned are looking to push on but have only both just come up as well. Plymouth especially I think could do with a link to us. It seems we are more focused on youth and could benefit them in the long run. Taylor Moore would be a good CB in L1. Im not sure what they've got in terms of CBs at those clubs but Taylor Moore would be one of the more talented players as soon as he stepped on the pitch. 

He wouldn't be a starter at Plymouth I know that for sure because have family down there who watch them and they are not short of centre halfs ,Pompey I can't speak for if I'm honest but it's unlikely they will stick a loan right in when they done ok last season,send him to Swindon I say and if he survives that then he will be doing alright  

[Bar BS3]

Just now, joe jordans teeth said:

He wouldn't be a starter at Plymouth I know that for sure because have family down there who watch them and they are not short of them,Pompey I can't speak for if I'm honest but it's unlikely they will stick a loan right in when they done ok last season,send him to Swindon I say and if he survives that then he will be doing alright  

I wouldn't wish that on Ian Baird or Tony Pulis, let alone one of our up & coming decent young hopefuls! 

[Londoner]

37 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Ah yeah, 25 minutes in a friendly is the perfect amount of time to judge a player.

Taylor Moore is no where near ready for regular football at this level. He doesn't have the positional sense for a full back....or the strength to be a centre back.

He was signed as an educated punt, however from what I have seen of him for me he doesn't have the attributes to play at this level....yet.

If I was going to make a prediction, I reckon a career in the lower leagues.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Londoner said:

Taylor Moore is no where near ready for regular football at this level. He doesn't have the positional sense for a full back....or the strength to be a centre back.

He was signed as an educated punt, however from what I have seen of him for me he doesn't have the attributes to play at this level....yet.

If I was going to make a prediction, I reckon a career in the lower leagues.

1) positional sense for a full back - I can't really comment on TM - except our tactics / set up of RB was to play incredibly narrow, I'm guessing to protect Flint (who in fairness wa helping Magnússon settle in).  Matthews and Little played so narrow, that on dead balls their starting positions were often left of centre when the oppo keeper was aiming kicks down our left centre.  That was too narrow, and then meant those sides that could switch play quickly got their left sided players on the ball with acres of space.  So whether TM got caught up in the same tactic, you argue it was under direction not through bad positioning.  Second half of the season, we went more conventional, by which time TM had gone to Bury.  

2) he was 19 and not fully grown.  He's now 20 and pre-season photos show he has filled out.  See earlier comment re Caulker comparison.

3) Attributes - which ones other than strength?  Not arguing, interested in what else you feel he is missing.  I think he has a lot of those required, calm, composed, reads game well etc.  Happy for difference of opinion.

4) prediction, absolutely fine if you think that.  I don't.  Think he'll play in Prem - I'm sticking my neck out I know, but I see quality.  Might be million miles off 

[Davefevs]

Just now, JamesBCFC said:

100% agreed.

Sometimes it's like you read my thoughts and then communicate them 10× better than I can.

It's an age thing  

[WhistleHappy]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Too long.

What's wrong with good old Division 2 ? .... back in the day we'd think anyone saying something else was a right 'div' .

 

[Bobfish]

I appreciate this issue is often just used as a stick to beat LJ with, but I must admit that it does have relevance. Our team constantly goes on about the project and bringing young talent through, but it is not done here any more than any other club. Even the poster boy names that are always pulled out like vyner, have had very little game time considering his debut was back in that 4-0 defeat at Hudderfield (I think) not last season but the one before. Sometimes it can feel our bringing through of youngsters is more lip service than reality. Lets think of Mags and moore etc, players who were at other clubs and chose to come here, sold no doubt on the talk of the project, believing they were coming to a club that would “Nurture youth” etc, yet moore and mags have seen three centre backs brought into the club (plus one tried out on trial) since they signed. MA can sell snow to Eskimos, but it is not much of a leap to see that these players are sold on a dream that they then see is not the reality. Young players thrive on confidence, but the reality of our policy must make them feel disillusioned. The same with Engvall too. I am sure all these players knew they had to fight for a place in the first team, earn their chance, but I doubt they expected more players to then be bought in for their positions (Taylor, Đurić and the new guy in Engvall’s situation; Wright, Jens and now Baker for Mags and Moore’s situation.) These addition transfers are no doubt a massive slap in the face for these young players who joined on MA selling them the prospect of breaking into the first team. And I am 100% sure (no source) that MA didn’t tell them extra players would be signed in their positions after their transfers. Remember how engvall tweeted about “always believing or having faith in himself” when we signed Taylor I think, and it would not surprise me if Mags reduced performance last night was due to the baker’s signing. All young players will know they have to wait for their chance and play as understudy to a player ahead of them, waiting for suspension or injury for their opportunity, but to then have extra players signed to go ahead of them in this pecking order of cover for a position is a message painfully loud and clear.

[Londoner]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

1) positional sense for a full back - I can't really comment on TM - except our tactics / set up of RB was to play incredibly narrow, I'm guessing to protect Flint (who in fairness wa helping Magnússon settle in).  Matthews and Little played so narrow, that on dead balls their starting positions were often left of centre when the oppo keeper was aiming kicks down our left centre.  That was too narrow, and then meant those sides that could switch play quickly got their left sided players on the ball with acres of space.  So whether TM got caught up in the same tactic, you argue it was under direction not through bad positioning.  Second half of the season, we went more conventional, by which time TM had gone to Bury.  

2) he was 19 and not fully grown.  He's now 20 and pre-season photos show he has filled out.  See earlier comment re Caulker comparison.

3) Attributes - which ones other than strength?  Not arguing, interested in what else you feel he is missing.  I think he has a lot of those required, calm, composed, reads game well etc.  Happy for difference of opinion.

4) prediction, absolutely fine if you think that.  I don't.  Think he'll play in Prem - I'm sticking my neck out I know, but I see quality.  Might be million miles off 

I can comment on him....time and time again he gets dragged to the Ball only to leave a runner in behind him....pretty basic really but I assume fill back isn't his natural position.....it cost us goals last season.

Yep million miles off.

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

Ah yeah, 25 minutes in a friendly is the perfect amount of time to judge a player.

25 minutes more than many players get when they join us.

[downendcity]

7 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I'm still getting used to the fact we're signing players younger than me!

Time for me to accept I will never be a City player.

I accepted that eventuality when I was still at junior school.

Edit: That I would never play for City, not that you would not!

 

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, Londoner said:

I can comment on him....time and time again he gets dragged to the Ball only to leave a runner in behind him....pretty basic really but I assume fill back isn't his natural position.....it cost us goals last season.

Yep million miles off.

Examples?  In the 4 games he got pitch time at RB, we only conceded 2 goals in the time he was on the pitch 

Forest at home?  He didn't cover himself in glory in the early passage for that goal.  You can have that

Barnsley at Oakwell?  Nothing to do with him for Hammill's last minute equaliser.

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Examples?  In the 4 games he got pitch time at RB, we only conceded 2 goals in the time he was on the pitch 

Forest at home?  He didn't cover himself in glory in the early passage for that goal.  You can have that

Barnsley at Oakwell?  Nothing to do with him for Hammill's last minute equaliser.

From what I've seen of him Dave , I think it's a probably a comment made of the back of one moment (Forest) when he looked , in that moment very naive as a full back

Although it wasn't good absolute madness to judge him on one mistake

I know LJ publicly criticised him for Pitmans goal at Ipswich but I'd be far less critical about that moment

I'm not sure what will become of him , can see him ending up at Plymouth or somewhere but can also see him making a career at this level or even above

I see qualities in him and weaknesses too and he's a difficult one to call IMHO

Heartened by your view of him and his 'pedigree' to this point suggests he has the potential to play at a very decent level (Although plenty of England U18 / U20 / U21 players have failed to carve out a career in the upper levels - that's sport / football as we know)

Like yourself I'd see a future for him him as a second centre back , or in a three, More so than a fullback (Thought Brownhill did a better emergency job at RB) , (not that he should be wasted there other than a real emergency)

Think the next 12 months for him will be telling 

 

[Antman]

11 hours ago, Bobfish said:

I appreciate this issue is often just used as a stick to beat LJ with, but I must admit that it does have relevance. Our team constantly goes on about the project and bringing young talent through, but it is not done here any more than any other club. Even the poster boy names that are always pulled out like vyner, have had very little game time considering his debut was back in that 4-0 defeat at Hudderfield (I think) not last season but the one before. Sometimes it can feel our bringing through of youngsters is more lip service than reality. Lets think of Mags and moore etc, players who were at other clubs and chose to come here, sold no doubt on the talk of the project, believing they were coming to a club that would “Nurture youth” etc, yet moore and mags have seen three centre backs brought into the club (plus one tried out on trial) since they signed. MA can sell snow to Eskimos, but it is not much of a leap to see that these players are sold on a dream that they then see is not the reality. Young players thrive on confidence, but the reality of our policy must make them feel disillusioned. The same with Engvall too. I am sure all these players knew they had to fight for a place in the first team, earn their chance, but I doubt they expected more players to then be bought in for their positions (Taylor, Đurić and the new guy in Engvall’s situation; Wright, Jens and now Baker for Mags and Moore’s situation.) These addition transfers are no doubt a massive slap in the face for these young players who joined on MA selling them the prospect of breaking into the first team. And I am 100% sure (no source) that MA didn’t tell them extra players would be signed in their positions after their transfers. Remember how engvall tweeted about “always believing or having faith in himself” when we signed Taylor I think, and it would not surprise me if Mags reduced performance last night was due to the baker’s signing. All young players will know they have to wait for their chance and play as understudy to a player ahead of them, waiting for suspension or injury for their opportunity, but to then have extra players signed to go ahead of them in this pecking order of cover for a position is a message painfully loud and clear.

agree with this.

asking a question of the club's development policy isn't about LJ (even tho' there are plenty of folk on here who think it is - the  binary nature of the majority of discussions on the forum can be effing tedious!)

I agree with your point of view - i cannot see what incentive these younger players have to kick on when we sign experienced  players ahead of them. There has been so much talk of 'pathways' into the first team, but Joe and Bobby actually came along years back! and not a lot has happened since.

Do we have the faith to play them or not - at the moment that seems more like 'not' and this isn't home grown talent, brought through the academy - many of the players you rightly mention are  bought and paid for, albeit at U23 level, but add up what we've paid and actually its a lot, and begs another question of how we operate financially.

I thought Taylor Moore looked full of promise, Like Vyner and Maggs i'd like to see him given more of a run - allowed to fail, so long as they are supported and able to learn.

 

 

[Antman]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Of all the 'not quite ready' signings from last summer and I include Brownhill and Engvall to O'Dowda, Moore (himself) and Di Girolamo, I think Moore will go on to be the best.  That's difficult to quantify I know, especially when GE and COD have played full internationals, but England cap is a different kettle of fish.

Some of the comments above are interesting:

- no pace - not what I've seen or what I've heard, pace is one of his assets.

- didn't do much at Bury - their GiggLane forum were impressed with him, especially as he was played at RWB predominantly.  They were a struggling side in the relegation zone and without regurgitating stats I've posted previously, their points tally per game went up massively and goals conceded per game dropped significantly

He appears to have filled out over the summer too.  Centre Back is a difficult position to be trusted in as a youngster, especially a slight one.  Some 19 year olds are men at 19, some aren't.

We seem to be in an awful rush on this forum to make snap judgements on players.  I suspect some posters have never actually seen him play.  Those snap judgements are also black and white - 'best thing since sliced bread' or 'Downs `League at best'.  99% are somewhere in between.  I'll give you Bas Savage though! 

Its gonna be tough for TM, but doors open unexpectedly.

Flint is off - let's assume.

Baker suspended for Barnsley, nor up to speed.

What if Wright or Magnússon or Hegeler have a 'mare or get injured, or suspended - all of a sudden he's in the frame.

Got 2 seasons left on his contract - why rush? 

agree with you -  my concern is that not enough opportunity is actually there for the fringe players to see a pathway forward.

With Baker signing - we HAVE to assume Flint is off, otherwise why??? (I think Baker is a great CB btw) but what does it say to Magnussen or even TM about opportunity.

I can't really agree about players having a bad run - we've seen players run out regularly through some pretty dismal performances, mass bemusement on the terraces!! and when younger players have come in and done quite well, they've been dropped pretty quickly as soon as the other player is available again. Of course to counter my own argument - there is logic in not chopping and changing.

I'm not sure our financial position has improved that much that we can punt £1m on TM, £1M+ on Maggs £1.5M+? on Gustav etc. it wasn't that long ago we were told that we had to tighten our belts, and even last season we were told that the squad had to be trimmed. in some respects I love that we think nothing of spending that much on fringe and reserve players, shows that we have set our sights higher, but counter that with the thought that can we really afford it!!!

 

 

[MarkRed!]

15 hours ago, kivsy said:

There has been plenty of players aged 16 to 19. Who have made premier league , or championship debuts , done well, then possibly sold on , at bigger clubs than city  

I agree with your posts on this to some extent.  

His age is irrelevant. If he is good enough he is old enough. Abraham had no experience of the Championship or Mens football and did rather well. I think the onus is on Moore to play well and take his chance. Similarly with Vyner and any of the other younger players. When he played last season I always felt his play was a bit loose. He gave a silly penalty away at Fulham in the Lg Cup and got caught out of position at Ipswich away.  He did OK at home to Hull. I personally dont think he is ready for the first team and I would give him another loan option. 

[TDarwall]

V Fulham away in the cup he gave a very assured performance as a cultured centre back. Defended well & used the ball far better than an average centre back. He did give away a daft pen though. Clearly a work in progress. One of he amazing things about Flint is that he never got suspended & since the bad knock early on never got injured either. If he goes I think the squad centre backs will get more game time as those occupying the 1st team places would miss more games than Flint ever did. I think Moore would do ok next to a big ugly centre back, but a pairing of him & Maggers would be too nice for me. 

[Phileas Fogg]

53 minutes ago, Antman said:

I'm not sure our financial position has improved that much that we can punt £1m on TM, £1M+ on Maggs £1.5M+? on Gustav etc.

It's the going rate for these sorts players now. All three that you've mentioned are either youth or full internationals. You won't find many promising young international players leaving for anything less than 7 figures these days. Not every single transfer is a guaranteed success, some simply won't work out. All three were signed as investments though. I expect we'll see plenty more of Engvall this season whereas Moore may leave on loan. Personally I'd like him to be backup/competition for Pisano which I think is also a likely option.

Quote

it wasn't that long ago we were told that we had to tighten our belts, and even last season we were told that the squad had to be trimmed. in some respects I love that we think nothing of spending that much on fringe and reserve players, shows that we have set our sights higher, but counter that with the thought that can we really afford it!!!

We also made money last summer from Bolasie and Kodjia remember. This summer we've made money (and saved lots of wages) on Tomlin and probably Flint too. We can afford then to spend and reinvest in the side. We know Lansdown is wealthy and the commercial side of the ground is giving us new income all the time.

I think people need to realise that football has changed lots - even in the last 2 or 3 years - player prices are inflated and loan rules tightening up mean we have to have a strong and capable group of players in reserve. People need to realise it's not 2007 anymore and 1-2m isn't that much money to spend on players.

[AppyDAZE]

I get this horrible feeling that he will leave without geting much of a chance here, and further on down the line he will be decent..

And we'll be looking on going "Oh bugger, we had him here once.. why did we let HIM go"

[Bowie]

The amount of money being spent on players like Mags, Moore, Engvall who look so far from being ready especially in relation to the transfer fees really makes me question the scouting and decision making of those in charge and we aren't a club that can afford to make massive risks especially so many being 7 figure fees.  

£6m+ of massive risk 'players for the future' it's ridiculous when have struggled so much over the last year or so, 12 months on and none of those 3 look like they will be starting games.

When the annual reports come out it will be very telling.  

It may be someone else's money but it's deeply concerning that money is being thrown around so recklessly. 

[ZiderEyed]

3 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

I get this horrible feeling that he will leave without geting much of a chance here, and further on down the line he will be decent..

And we'll be looking on going "Oh bugger, we had him here once.. why did we let HIM go"

Well he was rated by Lens, he's obviously got something to him. I get the same feeling though, one of those players who'll discover his ability immediately after we sell him.

[Guest GIBBO THE GREAT]

On 29/07/2017 at 20:15, Big Red Rich said:

Johnson.

Johnson out

[1960maaan]

20 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Examples?  In the 4 games he got pitch time at RB, we only conceded 2 goals in the time he was on the pitch 

Forest at home?  He didn't cover himself in glory in the early passage for that goal.  You can have that

Barnsley at Oakwell?  Nothing to do with him for Hammill's last minute equaliser.

 

12 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

From what I've seen of him Dave , I think it's a probably a comment made of the back of one moment (Forest) when he looked , in that moment very naive as a full back

Although it wasn't good absolute madness to judge him on one mistake

I know LJ publicly criticised him for Pitmans goal at Ipswich but I'd be far less critical about that moment

I'm not sure what will become of him , can see him ending up at Plymouth or somewhere but can also see him making a career at this level or even above

I see qualities in him and weaknesses too and he's a difficult one to call IMHO

Heartened by your view of him and his 'pedigree' to this point suggests he has the potential to play at a very decent level (Although plenty of England U18 / U20 / U21 players have failed to carve out a career in the upper levels - that's sport / football as we know)

Like yourself I'd see a future for him him as a second centre back , or in a three, More so than a fullback (Thought Brownhill did a better emergency job at RB) , (not that he should be wasted there other than a real emergency)

Think the next 12 months for him will be telling 

 

My thoughts from the little I saw last year was, he seemed to let himself down by being over eager . Gave away free kicks by trying to get too tight, I just think, it being a fresh start and new to the English leagues, he tried too hard to make an impression.
I think he will turn out to be quality, with us or someone else , the former I hope. A decent loan last year, and a year older/wiser/stronger . I agree this year could be telling. I agree eventually he will be a centre half , but may earn his spurs at FB to start

[Dynamite Red]

This is the Bury fans views after his loan spell.

http://www.gigglane.com/index.php?/topic/29166-taylor-moore/&tab=comments#comment-560440