hindsight

[pillred]

now with our new signings and a pretty good start to the season, yes I know opposition etc, do those that thought we would struggle still think so?

[Red Grovesy]

Far to early to say. One league game, at home, unfancied opposition. 

[OldlandReddies]

For me, Saturdays game will tell me whether we have improved from last season. We never get any change from Brum so im hoping this group of City players will change that.

[EnclosureSurge]

8 minutes ago, pillred said:

now with our new signings and a pretty good start to the season, yes I know opposition etc, do those that thought we would struggle still think so?

Looking at how poor Barnsley were, we really should beat them whether we end up struggling or not. The Plymouth game told us nothing about our league chances, I'm afraid, as there were sufficient changes to make partnerships/formation differ enough from a league line-up that it was ultimately a different team. As stated elsewhere, the quality of poor old Plymouth, and that of Barnsley, is no gauge of our league chances. Neither can we tell anything from other teams' two results so far - I didn't expect Ipswich to beat Birmingham and still expect the Tractors to struggle. 

 

[Super]

Yep i still do. Still have reservations about the manager hopefully he has learnt from last season.

[RedRoss]

7 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

Yea. Look at the next 9 league fixtures.

I'm shocked by your negative attitude Thatch..

That's really unlike you.

[Portland Bill]

19 minutes ago, pillred said:

now with our new signings and a pretty good start to the season, yes I know opposition etc, do those that thought we would struggle still think so?

We won our first three games last season.........................

[cityexile]

I am cautiously optimistic.

Why, is actually to do with more than just the results. Clearly, as others have said, it is very very early days.

My main concern with LJ for large periods of last season is I could not see 'the plan'. The way LJ wants us to play football, if you like. To often it seemed just a case of reshuffle the pack and hope for the best.

Through pre-season and the early games, it has been much easier to see how he wants the team to approach games. Results are key of course, and if it holds up to greater scrutiny from better teams we will see.

It is however encouraging to me that what I assume is an 'LJ way' is starting to emerge.

[bristolcitysweden]

All I ask for is not another relegation battle

[Northern Red]

Too early to say, the opposition haven't been up to much but we still had to beat them, and we did so convincingly. 

Certainly it's gone about as well as anyone could have realistically hoped so far. 

[Spike]

59 minutes ago, pillred said:

now with our new signings and a pretty good start to the season, yes I know opposition etc, do those that thought we would struggle still think so?

We had a fantastic start to last season, in fact we were battling for a play off spot for a month or so, look how that ended. The bottom line is until we see a good consistent team we don't know where we stand but our squad is certainly starting to look a lot better than it did at the beginning of the summer.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

3 minutes ago, Spike said:

We had a fantastic start to last season, in fact we were battling for a play off spot for a month or so, look how that ended. The bottom line is until we see a good consistent team we don't know where we stand but our squad is certainly starting to look a lot better than it did at the beginning of the summer.

Early days of course, but the football we have played in two matches this season far exceeds the quality of what we were watching last season.  Can't help but be optimistic.

[BCFC Grim]

I'm a hell of alot more optimistic than I was a week ago, but this is City we are talking about so expect that optimism to be shattered by 5 Saturday. 

[man in the middle]

Look at the start we had last season, if we go unbeaten for the first 10 games I'll still have my reservations.

[wendyredredrobin]

Its the style of play that has given me optimism rather than just the results.

Defence has not really been tested yet and nor has character if we go behind.

Midfield have had things all their own way in the first two games.

We will see in the next 2 or 3 games whether we have a team ready to challenge for the play offs.

Encouraging so far though.

[Garland-sweden]

Optlmistic as usual and also realistic I say. Barnsley will have problems and yesterday says not so mutch against a poor Plymouth. Despite that my feeling is we are better this season. Think we have more options in all areas in the team. LJ have been in charge now for a while and knows more about the leauge and the team. We got some new players who plays in the starting eleven. We learnt from last season that the defence must work, and it progressed. So all and all I think we will be ok, midtable. Coyr!!!

[BCFC Grim]

22 minutes ago, man in the middle said:

Look at the start we had last season, if we go unbeaten for the first 10 games I'll still have my reservations.

I agree, however we didn't get close to playing the football we are now in that spell ( two poor teams I know). Even when we won, alot of the time it wasn't pretty.

[deadredfred]

I've not seen us play yet other than highlights, but I'm already optimistic as others have said that a) we seem to have a style b) the players seem to know how to play it c) we've recruited to help us play this way and d) team morale seems sky high. 

Fact is, we've not been tested yet. The real test will come when we're up against a good side, under the cosh or losing. I'm all for a positive outlook but seeing people claim to have forgiven last seasons debacle or claiming us to have turned a corner after one home match (that really we should be winning) doesn't seem quite right. This is City after all, we don't make it easy and we never learn. 

I'll reassess after 10 league games, but we couldn't have asked for a better start. Credit where it's due. For now 

[LondonBristolian]

People talk about the first two games being relatively straightforward, which they were. But you have to beat the teams in front of you and, if nothing else, how poor Barnsley were on Saturday suggests that we only need to find two teams significantly weaker than us and we can relax!

[Pezo]

I'm not getting ahead of myself - I still think we're weaker than last season and we struggled then.

For me to support LJ again we should be finishing around the playoffs, this is the expectation he set (3 transfer windows) so I hold him and the team to this. A new manager shows failure of this strategy and resets the expectation.

I am hopeful that we can do better than my expectations.

[Red Army 75]

One thing I have learned watching city . Is never get carried away. Saying that I've thoroughly enjoyed the first two home games 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Pezo said:

I'm not getting ahead of myself - I still think we're weaker than last season and we struggled then.

For me to support LJ again we should be finishing around the playoffs, this is the expectation he set (3 transfer windows) so I hold him and the team to this. A new manager shows failure of this strategy and resets the expectation.

I am hopeful that we can do better than my expectations.

Weaker individually?  Possibly.

Stronger as a team?  Maybe

Anyone notice that we now have routines at throw-ins to make space?  It was plotless last season!  Little block-offs, push and go's, very basic at this level, but essential.

We look like we know what we are doing / trying to do.

Of course, we've had it all our way so far.  Tough game Saturday, an early barometer maybe.

Whatever happens, won't be getting carried away.

[Robbored]

Two wins against poor opposition mean nothing but.....the way in which those games were won was very impressive. Three goals up in both games in hardly any time thru high tempo play, high pressing and slick passing. I've not seen that for quite sometime and I find that very optimistic.

Big test at Brum on Saturday, up against a very experienced manager in 'Arry and a decent team. If City get all the points I might put a tenner on getting promotion...........

 

[Spike]

3 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Early days of course, but the football we have played in two matches this season far exceeds the quality of what we were watching last season.  Can't help but be optimistic.

I would agree except at the beginning of last season we were playing some fantastic football, it was just a case of once we lost the momentum it never came back. I'm optimistic at the moment but I'm also going to remain cautious as the real test comes when we lose and we need to get going again.

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Weaker individually?  Possibly.

Stronger as a team?  Maybe

Anyone notice that we now have routines at throw-ins to make space?  It was plotless last season!  Little block-offs, push and go's, very basic at this level, but essential.

We look like we know what we are doing / trying to do.

Of course, we've had it all our way so far.  Tough game Saturday, an early barometer maybe.

Whatever happens, won't be getting carried away.

We were actually time wasting in the last twenty minutes by nudging the ball away at throw ins and free kicks. We seem to be a bit more streetwise than a year ago.

[Whites]

Perfect test for us against what I think will be a mediocre Birmingham side destined for mid table, unless they recruit well in the remainder of the transfer window. My heart thinks we'll have a decent season as there definitely seems to be something extra there this season, bit more zip in the way we are playing and seems the players are a bit more confident. My brain however is constantly telling my heart to stop it.... 

We'll win Saturday 4-2 by the way. 

[WhistleHappy]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing .....

but don't look back in anger, don't look back in anger, don't look back in anger I've gotta say!

[Major Isewater]

12 hours ago, Northern Red said:

Too early to say, the opposition haven't been up to much but we still had to beat them, and we did so convincingly. 

Certainly it's gone about as well as anyone could have realistically hoped so far. 

City of old would have made hard work of both those ' easy ' games.

This team went to work and did the business with style .

Of course it's early days but the signs are very encouraging.

 I think we're going to have an interesting and entertaining season.

 

[Guest]

A good starter does not always win or do well in a race, in fact could come last, we are not even at the first bend yet...........but we ALL hope. Ask me again at Christmas.

[shelts]

Very early doors . Think the club has grown up a little over the summer and we won't struggle as much as last season . Fingers crossed anyways!!

[Son of Fred]

14 hours ago, pillred said:

now with our new signings and a pretty good start to the season, yes I know opposition etc, do those that thought we would struggle still think so?

One league game in??..

Take a look after ten games and see how were shaping up..would be happy with 13/14 points from the fixtures we have.

[Tears in rain]

Birmingham will be a good gauge of progress they will be mid table and we struggle away st St Andrews. 

So as many have said let's work this out after 10 games etc. 

Anyone remember being in the play offs at the start of the season last year? 

[BigTone]

14 hours ago, pillred said:

now with our new signings and a pretty good start to the season, yes I know opposition etc, do those that thought we would struggle still think so?

Far too early to change my mind, so yes.

[Lack of Action Man]

Not getting carried away after two games. Two good wins and performance but we will face tougher tests and it will be both our response both physically and mentally to those tests on which I'll be basing my hopes for this season. 

[054123]

15 hours ago, pillred said:

now with our new signings and a pretty good start to the season, yes I know opposition etc, do those that thought we would struggle still think so?

No idea! Based on the only decent sample size we have, which is last season, then yes.

For Better or worse, the one thing that sticks from Johnson senior is the blocks of 10 when judging teams.

[Redtucks]

14 hours ago, Thatch35 said:

Yea. Look at the next 9 league fixtures.

 

14 hours ago, RedRoss said:

I'm shocked by your negative attitude Thatch..

That's really unlike you.

No, that's his positive attitude!!!

If he was being negative he'd be saying look at the next 45 league fixtures, and slagging LJ.

 

[Phantom]

15 hours ago, pillred said:

now with our new signings and a pretty good start to the season, yes I know opposition etc, do those that thought we would struggle still think so?

On the basis that we have probably only played the two worst sides we will get all season I would say it is FAR too early to be assessing the whole season

Remember how last season started !

[Guest]

I know I'm going to regret posting this come 5pm Saturday.. but i'm feeling pretty confident we'll comfortably beat Birmingham

[1bristolcity]

14 hours ago, Pezo said:

I'm not getting ahead of myself - I still think we're weaker than last season and we struggled then.

For me to support LJ again we should be finishing around the playoffs, this is the expectation he set (3 transfer windows) so I hold him and the team to this. A new manager shows failure of this strategy and resets the expectation.

I am hopeful that we can do better than my expectations.

If there is one thing I am pretty sure of we are not weaker than last season, the development of the younger players, and the additions make us a much stronger unit.

[RedRoss]

13 hours ago, Thatch35 said:

You need to quote everyone else too then mate...have you seen the fixtures? Look daunting if you go by last season. It's not negative have a think about it.

All you did is talk about me. ...you haven't even responded to the topic!!!! 

It's two games in so I have no opinion yet really.

I just find it funny how consistent you are in negativity.

[Pezo]

2 hours ago, 1bristolcity said:

If there is one thing I am pretty sure of we are not weaker than last season, the development of the younger players, and the additions make us a much stronger unit.

Our top goal scorer, most ecperianced player and squad mentor leaves, in fact of our top 5 goal scorers it looks like we will keep 1 by the end of the transfer window - Patto with a grand total last season of 4.

Our most creative player is gone from midfield.

In defense we have a new right back that looks pretty good, it looks like we will lose our most influential player over the last 3 seasons and we have brought in a player that was part of an awful defensive record 2 seasons ago.

You have your opinion and I have mine, I've clarified mine - can you clarify yours? If you think Fam is better than Abraham, Baker is better than Flint or Hegeler and Pack is better than Tomlin then im afraid we wont agree. If your saying that there is potential for them to work better as a team I could agree but the question was "do you still still think we will struggle?" and on paper (because im not judging anything on the games that I've seen due to not really being a fare barometer) I dont think we are as good so I can only conclud that we will struggle.

[Portland Bill]

The biggest letdown of last season, and the one most seem to have forgotten about is our away record.

It was terrible, absolutely shocking.

Its great that we have won our first two home games, and long may it continue. The 23 away games are more of a concern for me though, we must dramatically improve in those games.

Im hoping that the manager and coaches have spent a lot of time pre season on how we are tactically going to play away from home this season, it should be the top priority imo.

[Garland-sweden]

2 hours ago, Pezo said:

Our top goal scorer, most ecperianced player and squad mentor leaves, in fact of our top 5 goal scorers it looks like we will keep 1 by the end of the transfer window - Patto with a grand total last season of 4.

Our most creative player is gone from midfield.

In defense we have a new right back that looks pretty good, it looks like we will lose our most influential player over the last 3 seasons and we have brought in a player that was part of an awful defensive record 2 seasons ago.

You have your opinion and I have mine, I've clarified mine - can you clarify yours? If you think Fam is better than Abraham, Baker is better than Flint or Hegeler and Pack is better than Tomlin then im afraid we wont agree. If your saying that there is potential for them to work better as a team I could agree but the question was "do you still still think we will struggle?" and on paper (because im not judging anything on the games that I've seen due to not really being a fare barometer) I dont think we are as good so I can only conclud that we will struggle.

To compare Pack- Tomlin, Tammy-Famara and so on. Think its about getting the team as a unit. My wiev of it is we will be better without Tomlin and Tammy. Dont get me wrong, Tammy saved us last season but dont think its good to rely in one or two players. Other players will step forward and create goals. When Germany won the world cup Lahm said, we have not the best players in the world but we have the best team in the world. Offcause Im not comparing City with Germany, but I think Lahm gotta point in what he said.

[pillred]

7 hours ago, Robert the bruce said:

One league game in??..

Take a look after ten games and see how were shaping up..would be happy with 13/14 points from the fixtures we have.

not just the one game in, the players we have recruited, style of play, when we started last season with good results people quite rightly said we had been lucky getting points despite not looking convincing, we now look like we can actually keep the ball and have a game plan, yes it's v early days but I will tell you what I will be very surprised if we are anywhere near the bottom of the table come the end of the season.

[pillred]

6 hours ago, phantom said:

On the basis that we have probably only played the two worst sides we will get all season I would say it is FAR too early to be assessing the whole season

Remember how last season started !

I wasn't asking for a judgement on the whole season, just whether people thought we would still struggle and could see no hope, I personally can already see more scope for optimism. there were plenty on here that had basically written off the season before we had made any signings and kicked a ball.

[Spud55]

20 hours ago, man in the middle said:

Look at the start we had last season, if we go unbeaten for the first 10 games I'll still have my reservations.

We had a good start, in terms of results but it was hardly convincing, 2 late goals to beat Wigan, a late goal to just about scrape a win at Burton, results against Villa and Fulham were good, but a lot of people were able to see the cracks in our performances well before the wheels fell off so to speak.

[Spud55]

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

Tomlin was diabolical last season. Not having him in our team makes us stronger. What part of last season are you comparing our current squad with? 

Indeed,

Also I like the way he has a pop at Baker being part of a poor defence for a season, yet talks about Flint who has been part of a shite defence for 3 years as if he's some sort of colossus, you can't have a go at one without having a go at the other equally.

What has Pack and Tomlin got to do with anything?  Bobby has played 1 game and all he has to do is muster 4 goals and 5 assists for the rest of the season to match Tomlin last year.

Even then was Tomlin all that, in 42 games he managed 1 more goal and 1 more assist than Pato managed in 24 games, doesn't look like a creative wizard to me and certainly doesn't look irreplacable.

[Pezo]

58 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Tomlin was diabolical last season. Not having him in our team makes us stronger. What part of last season are you comparing our current squad with? 

This opinion that Tomlin had a bad season last season seems to be a lot more pervasive since he left, IMO he had an average season but the team didnt perform with him in it - which is differnt from him him having a bad season. Im comparing the whole season - when we finished just outside the relegation zone.

[1bristolcity]

4 hours ago, Pezo said:

Our top goal scorer, most ecperianced player and squad mentor leaves, in fact of our top 5 goal scorers it looks like we will keep 1 by the end of the transfer window - Patto with a grand total last season of 4.

Our most creative player is gone from midfield.

In defense we have a new right back that looks pretty good, it looks like we will lose our most influential player over the last 3 seasons and we have brought in a player that was part of an awful defensive record 2 seasons ago.

You have your opinion and I have mine, I've clarified mine - can you clarify yours? If you think Fam is better than Abraham, Baker is better than Flint or Hegeler and Pack is better than Tomlin then im afraid we wont agree. If your saying that there is potential for them to work better as a team I could agree but the question was "do you still still think we will struggle?" and on paper (because im not judging anything on the games that I've seen due to not really being a fare barometer) I dont think we are as good so I can only conclud that we will struggle.

The fact that Tammy is gone is not going to impact as much as you and others suggest, other players will shoulder more responsibility in scoring, that is often the case in football. He was never a City player as such, so and that in itself can halt progress with our own strikers, except LJ has handled the squad very well, loaning out and bringing on players but not rushing things. 

I don't get why you are so downbeat, football is a team game and the way we are playing, suggests that this crop of players will do just fine, the style that Lee has got them playing suggests we will win more than lose....of course I might be wrong, and I am a glass half full type, but the signs are encouraging. Tomlin gone Tammy Gone Flint so what? Football is dynamic, these things happen, but believe me we are a better unit than  we have been for a few seasons. 

[Pezo]

55 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

Indeed,

Also I like the way he has a pop at Baker being part of a poor defence for a season, yet talks about Flint who has been part of a shite defence for 3 years as if he's some sort of colossus, you can't have a go at one without having a go at the other equally.

What has Pack and Tomlin got to do with anything?  Bobby has played 1 game and all he has to do is muster 4 goals and 5 assists for the rest of the season to match Tomlin last year.

Even then was Tomlin all that, in 42 games he managed 1 more goal and 1 more assist than Pato managed in 24 games, doesn't look like a creative wizard to me and certainly doesn't look irreplacable.

Excuse me - where do I talk about Flint like he is some kind of Colossus?

IMO Flint is limited but he is the best we have got. But like a lot of things on this forum (and on the internet) everything is understood as black and white when in most cases its a shade of gray.

[Pezo]

3 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

The fact that Tammy is gone is not going to impact as much as you and others suggest, other players will shoulder more responsibility in scoring, that is often the case in football. He was never a City player as such, so and that in itself can halt progress with our own strikers, except LJ has handled the squad very well, loaning out and bringing on players but not rushing things. 

I don't get why you are so downbeat, football is a team game and the way we are playing, suggests that this crop of players will do just fine, the style that Lee has got them playing suggests we will win more than lose....of course I might be wrong, and I am a glass half full type, but the signs are encouraging. Tomlin gone Tammy Gone Flint so what? Football is dynamic, these things happen, but believe me we are a better unit than  we have been for a few seasons. 

You present the first paragraph like its fact but its an opinion and hope that that Tammy leaving is not going to effect us as much as I think it will and that others will score more (certainly a hope I share but im not as sure as you are that it will come to fruition).

The reason im downbeat is partly to provide a juxtaposition to everyone else that seem to think because we have beat a rebuilt poor team and a team from the league below that swaped out its keeper for a poor reserve that everything is ok.

The truth of the matter is no one knows at the moment and wont for at least another 9 games but the orignal question was looking at tranfer dealings over the summer are we better and I beleive we lack some quality that we had last season.

I cant beleive im not allowed to hold a different opinion and think more should be done to move on players that aren't good enough and bring in more quality. Maybe I should take a break from the forum, I am finding rather bipolar at the moment.

[1bristolcity]

3 minutes ago, Pezo said:

You present the first paragraph like its fact but its an opinion and hope that that Tammy leaving is not going to effect us as much as I think it will and that others will score more (certainly a hope I share but im not as sure as you are that it will come to fruition).

The reason im downbeat is partly to provide a juxtaposition to everyone else that seem to think because we have beat a rebuilt poor team and a team from the league below that swaped out its keeper for a poor reserve that everything is ok.

The truth of the matter is no one knows at the moment and wont for at least another 9 games but the orignal question was looking at tranfer dealings over the summer are we better and I beleive we lack some quality that we had last season.

I cant beleive im not allowed to hold a different opinion and think more should be done to move on players that aren't good enough and bring in more quality. Maybe I should take a break from the forum, I am finding rather bipolar at the moment.

Well I am all for folk having alternative opinions, and you express them well, but I cannot agree with you downbeat feelings about the team, in summary I believe we are a stronger unit.

[Leveller]

Looking at that goal, I would say Hinds' sight is fine.

[Pezo]

21 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I believe we would have gone down had Tomlin continued to be selected. That's how bad he was imo. 

But was he a bad player or did he just not fit into our setup? I beleive its the latter.

[Pezo]

22 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

You called him "our most influential player of the last 3 seasons"

You didnt mention his part in a woeful defence for 2 of those seasons, but used one of those to dig at Baker.

I can see whats happened here - IMO being our most influential player in 2 previous poor seasons doesnt make you a good player in this league, he is probably our best defender over that time but that doesnt make him a good defender in this league either.

[Pezo]

29 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Probably because, from your own post- you are arguing for the sake of it.

It does seem like I have had to much coffee today. :-)

[pillred]

1 hour ago, 1bristolcity said:

The fact that Tammy is gone is not going to impact as much as you and others suggest, other players will shoulder more responsibility in scoring, that is often the case in football. He was never a City player as such, so and that in itself can halt progress with our own strikers, except LJ has handled the squad very well, loaning out and bringing on players but not rushing things. 

I don't get why you are so downbeat, football is a team game and the way we are playing, suggests that this crop of players will do just fine, the style that Lee has got them playing suggests we will win more than lose....of course I might be wrong, and I am a glass half full type, but the signs are encouraging. Tomlin gone Tammy Gone Flint so what? Football is dynamic, these things happen, but believe me we are a better unit than  we have been for a few seasons. 

I  think if we signed Ronaldo and messi some posters would still think we are going to struggle,  I agree with you about the teamwork aspect, we do, even on the limited amount I have seen look a much more balanced team. 

[man in the middle]

19 hours ago, Spud55 said:

We had a good start, in terms of results but it was hardly convincing, 2 late goals to beat Wigan, a late goal to just about scrape a win at Burton, results against Villa and Fulham were good, but a lot of people were able to see the cracks in our performances well before the wheels fell off so to speak.

Agreed some results could have easily gone against us but after the Fulham game I was convinced we'd not be in a religion fight again and hoping we'd finish a comfortable top to mid table, but the bit in the middle was like nothing I've seen before and fear it may happen again, so now on I'm taking nothing for granted, COYR!