Decipher the Code Please

[Abraham Romanovich]

Taken from the Evening Post 

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/lee-johnson-discusses-five-centre-339692

LJ qouted a follows

The head coach went on to discuss selection for the first team.

“It is ideal to have a leadership stability, and I don’t think we had enough of that last year, and some due to circumstances unbeknown to us that happened across the season, but it’s a key part of the thought process and to try and make sure we try and stay as consistent as possible"

Not quite sure what all this means - any ideas ?

[Olé]

"We needed a little tickle, if you like"

When intelligent people don't understand whatever it is he's going on about, what hope do we have for professional footballers. I believe all the players have a dedicated app - I hope it has a translation mode.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Is he talking about leadership on the field? The fact that we had about half a dozen captains throughout last season?  Also a veiled reference to the destabilising effect of Lee Tomlin?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 minute ago, Olé said:

"We needed a little tickle, if you like"

When intelligent people don't understand whatever it is he's going on about, what hope do we have for professional footballers. I believe all the players have a dedicated app - I hope it has a translation mode.

The fact is that is most people speak garbage if it is analysed too closely.  In the course of my work last year I had to transcribe verbatim a conversation between two people lasting over an hour, and I was astounded when I went through it word for word how garbled it all was.  I think generally it's very unfair to quote anyone verbatim and a good journalist should be teasing out the meaning and, to an extent, translating it into something that you and I would understand.

Look at the hatchet job that was done on poor Graham Taylor when his sentence were analysed word for word.

[City Ben]

4 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Is he talking about leadership on the field? The fact that we had about half a dozen captains throughout last season?  Also a veiled reference to the destabilising effect of Lee Tomlin?

That was my take. How many captains did we have last season? (Genuine question.)

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Olé said:

"We needed a little tickle, if you like"

When intelligent people don't understand whatever it is he's going on about, what hope do we have for professional footballers. I believe all the players have a dedicated app - I hope it has a translation mode.

I don't like that 'tickle' thing he says - I have absolutely no idea what that means.

I thought it was interesting last season he near enough admitted he'd been over-coaching. During our good run at the end, he said that he let the players go out and play and results were far better. 

I notice this season he seems to be making a real effort to not criticise the players directly.. instead criticising things from left-field like the fixture list in August. Wonder if he'll stick to that if things go bad this season.. seemed to lash out a bit when under the cosh.. Ipswich away (Taylor Moore), Preston away (Magnússon)

 

[RedM]

I would read that as Bailey Wright is captain so he plays. Wasn't Korey captain last year but  he missed a big chunk of the season. But that was due to injury, not 'circumstances unbeknown to us', so that comment is weird.

The only player who I think LJ would be alluding to was Tomlin and his problems, but he's gone now anyway so it doesn't make sense to me.

As for leadership, it's Flint (without the armband) who is the leader in the dressing room and on the pitch, We had him every minute of last season, it's obviously this season we have not used him apart from one sub appearance in our only win so far. So what was going on last year?!

[RedM]

The little tickle thing is daft and not something I'd expect to hear from someone talking about winning a game of football. I take it to mean a bit more nous, a bit more skill or cleverness to outsmart the opposition. Like we are almost there but not quite ( I don't think we were anywhere near, but that's another argument) .

But why didn't he just say so, unless Lee I've totally misunderstood then I apologise, but it's as good a guess as anything. Tickle, really?

[EnclosureSurge]

20 minutes ago, Olé said:

"We needed a little tickle, if you like"

When intelligent people don't understand whatever it is he's going on about, what hope do we have for professional footballers. I believe all the players have a dedicated app - I hope it has a translation mode.

Perfectly summed up. I'm convinced the bellend failures of last season were down to, largely, the manager over-talking things and droning on with layers of tactical stuff that the players just did not get. They thrive on simple instructions, we pretty much all do. Over-complicating things, or just complicating them let alone over-, doesn't make Lee Johnson sound clever. It confuses players, possibly even the staff. Maybe Pembo was confused and tried to simplify things. Maybe not. But I'm convinced that Johnson's 'talk', his use of all sorts of phrases and vernacular would have impressed, even wowed, Lansdown in interview, but just doesn't translate to the players. 

[cidered abroad]

In my opinion and it is only an opinion formed by myself over many years without any itk from anyone else, there has been a culture of "split dressing room" at BCFC on and off for many years.

I saw it very clearly when Cole & Jacki would never pass to several others. It shows during games in very subtle ways like a player(s) not enthusiatically joining in goal celebrations.

It seemed to have gone away when Cotterill was here but maybe because he rarely altered the starting eleven, it still simmered in those not picked.

For a team to have such a dire run last season from mid October to March, it was clear to me that there was disunity in the squad and it only takes a couple or three at this level to negate all the hard work of the rest.

You will never get total harmony within a twenty five strong squad of footballers. It would be easy to pick out the obvious disruptors like Tomlin, GON was also inferred by some who claimed to be itk. It could very well have been others on the coaching staff. JP, the arrival of Holden or simply the way that LJ runs things.

It's often said that many players at this level are not the brightest and the sudden arrival of players from other countries and cultures, able to speak two or more languages quite well, may have had the affect of causing some to lose some of their self confidence. Footballers thrive on self confidence and any dent to any one of the squad, has a "pebble into the water" ripple effect. If it affects two or more, the ripples become big waves.

If my view has any credence, it will need very strong management to rebuild trust and confidence through the squad.

[Robbored]

Lets not overlook that LJ is still inexperienced in his managerial career and has and will make all sorts of errors and talking to the media  in a cryptic fashion is another. 

There are some  journos and us fans who aren't familiar with in house football "speak" and when LJ realises that he'll simplify his media interviews.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

51 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said:

Perfectly summed up. I'm convinced the bellend failures of last season were down to, largely, the manager over-talking things and droning on with layers of tactical stuff that the players just did not get. They thrive on simple instructions, we pretty much all do. Over-complicating things, or just complicating them let alone over-, doesn't make Lee Johnson sound clever. It confuses players, possibly even the staff. Maybe Pembo was confused and tried to simplify things. Maybe not. But I'm convinced that Johnson's 'talk', his use of all sorts of phrases and vernacular would have impressed, even wowed, Lansdown in interview, but just doesn't translate to the players. 

More onion bag, less Dungeons and Dragons.

[Cidre Monita]

29 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Lets not overlook that LJ is still inexperienced in his managerial career and has and will make all sorts of errors and talking to the media  in a cryptic fashion is another. 

There are some  journos and us fans who aren't familiar with in house football "speak" and when LJ realises that he'll simplify his media interviews.

He's blagging it. 

"Catch  me if you can " Part 2 starring Lee Johnson 

[spudski]

It's clearer to understand, if you listen or watch the full interviews on the main site. That was where this was taken from.

[Phantom]

1 hour ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

“It is ideal to have a leadership stability, and I don’t think we had enough of that last year, and some due to circumstances unbeknown to us that happened across the season, but it’s a key part of the thought process and to try and make sure we try and stay as consistent as possible"

Not quite sure what all this means - any ideas ?

To me it reads that we couldn't have foreseen the injures to our captain and we're forced into shuffling the position about 

[Ivorguy]

Surely one of the required skills of a football head coach is communication.

Failure to communicate with supporters/customers is surely a requirement as presumably is communication with players, unless all staff and players have chosen to speak in a language inaccessible to the rest of us

[Olé]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I think generally it's very unfair to quote anyone verbatim and a good journalist should be teasing out the meaning and, to an extent, translating it into something that you and I would understand.

I completely agree, in business it is one of my biggest annoyances that so many people cannot communicate well and ramble their way through meaningless, excessive narrative that does an appalling job of conveying the message they wanted to make. It's just waffle and the serious point here is that very often they're doing it to bluff their way through a lack of substance to whatever the information or direction it was they were trying to convey anyway.

The situation with Johnson is no different. I know you and I will not agree about Johnson, but one thing I am convinced of about him is his lack of ability to communicate his point clearly and instinctive bluffing of the answers. The "if you like" and nervous chuckle that appears on the end of virtually every other sentence of his betrays this.   Yes a reporters job is to tease out meaning, but at times it's impossible and players don't have that luxury - that terrifies me.

[RumRed]

30 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

I did enjoy his 'little tickle' comment....dear oh dear.

Sorry but he talks absolute nonsense. 

Unless you're a trout, in which case you just roll over and go with it.

[RumRed]

I really hope 'trout tickling' is a real thing and I wasn't just being wound up as a child.

[WTFiGO!?!]

I've sent it off to Bletchley Park, they say they're non-the-wiser either.

[EnderMB]

I actually agree with LJ. Outside of a couple of people, there is a bit of a leadership void in the squad.

However, if you were to believe that leadership comes from experience, that's hardly surprising, is it? Since LJ joined we've signed numerous youngsters, and it's incredibly difficult to have players under 25 that have the experience of this league, of promotion (or even relegation) to lead a group of their peers. I think it's why we were so keen to keep hold of Wilbrahim, as his experience was invaluable in helping Tammy adapt to live at Bristol City.

It's no wonder why all the top managers in the game have said that in football you need a mix of young talent, players working towards their peak, and elder statesmen that have experience with the club, and can drive the future generations forward. Currently, this team is lacking the latter, and with it comes a leadership void. That's not down to LJ, but down to how the club chooses to run itself.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 hours ago, EnclosureSurge said:

Perfectly summed up. I'm convinced the bellend failures of last season were down to, largely, the manager over-talking things and droning on with layers of tactical stuff that the players just did not get. They thrive on simple instructions, we pretty much all do. Over-complicating things, or just complicating them let alone over-, doesn't make Lee Johnson sound clever. It confuses players, possibly even the staff. Maybe Pembo was confused and tried to simplify things. Maybe not. But I'm convinced that Johnson's 'talk', his use of all sorts of phrases and vernacular would have impressed, even wowed, Lansdown in interview, but just doesn't translate to the players. 

Nail on head for me mate

You are spot on about players (As a majority rule) wanting simple instruction - I posed this question to  Twentyman last season and he said in his experience players they will quickly switch off if you overload them with information / talk

If our eyes glaze over and our brains shiver,  trying to decipher what he's on about with his , contradictory messages , riddles and cliches - I can't even begin to think what the players must think listening to it all week

You won't impress players , especially more experienced ones with lots of words cliches and talks of a tickle needed'  - They will see through any fluff or bull and quickly make a judgement (As we all tend to do with bosses at work)

Talk of tickles and such like resultis in a lot of bewildered glances at each other and p taking amongst players I'd suggest 

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

Lets not overlook that LJ is still inexperienced in his managerial career and has and will make all sorts of errors and talking to the media  in a cryptic fashion is another. 

There are some  journos and us fans who aren't familiar with in house football "speak" and when LJ realises that he'll simplify his media interviews.

Sorry but that's complete nonsense 

I've been around football enough and never heard the 'speak' that comes from LJ

Ive seen pro coaches and managers issuing instructions and message and in particular , a manager , with extensive experience at all levels of pro football , at close hand and his messages and instructions were always simple and clear in plain English that most supporters would also fully understand

Name me another manager that speaks with such riddles and speak

[SedRA]

9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Sorry but that's complete nonsense 

I've been around football enough and never heard the 'speak' that comes from LJ

Ive seen pro coaches and managers issuing instructions and message and in particular , a manager , with extensive experience at all levels of pro football , at close hand and his messages and instructions were always simple and clear in plain English that most supporters would also fully understand

Despite Eddie Howe being a young manager, I can't imagine him coming out with 'we just needed a little tickle'. He speaks very plainly and directly even though being part of the 'new breed'  

 

 

[cidered abroad]

There are very interesting posts in this thread and I'm beginning to see why the "Dinosaur" type "Gaffer" in football has existed for so long. 

Management in the game is in effect stuck in the dark ages. I've only ever heard one player ever refer to his club managers by their first name. Steven Gerrard as a player when talking about Rafa Benitez and Kenny Dalgleish. The first was surprising even if the second was not as they are big friends away from football.

So perhaps LJ is actually a good coach but because he may be trying to sound "modern and with it" to a squad who are nowhere near ready to embrace it. The British players because they're used to old fashioned dressing room speak and the Europeans who's English will be much more correct as it's probably learnt in a school. When I lived in Portugal, I was told that while I spoke very good grammatically correct Portuguese, it was that, that identified me straight away as a foreigner. 

A squad which contains a player who, when taking part in the head to head quizzes last season, didn't know the name of the river that runs through Bristol city centre. (And it's wasn't a trick question with the answer as Frome).

We need an old head within the coaching set up NOW, not next month or next year. We can't wait for another five years for the players to catch up with LJ or LJ to learn how to speak to them. In words of one syllable and words that they understand.

PS. I understand what a "tickle" is but only because of my background in Technical Service. It means to amend something by minute (very small) amounts at a time so as to arrive at the optimum setting.

[spudski]

Why are fans assuming that LJ talks to the players in the same way as he talks to the press?

I can assure you he doesn't...and Instruction is not just given by him on the training field or classroom. His assistant coaches do a lot of the talking.

They also use tablets and apps and have a hands on approach.

In fact, LJ and the coaching staff are well aware of players ( especially young players ) ability to listen or switch off, and have gone about ways of addressing it with each individual player. They are well aware of the importance of understanding what is being said and make sure it is.

He even touched on this in an interview not so long ago, when he spoke about players getting involved with talking and having something physical not just visual to connect with when discussing tactics.

Funnily...given my hobby...the England U23's use a Subbuteo table and figures in the changing room at games, as it was found that the players got involved more readily, if they had something physical to move and show, rather than just explaining and looking at a screen when discussing tactics and formations etc.

Players and all staff that are interviewed by the press are given 'lessons' on how to do it. Often they speak nothing like they do in normal day to day life.

Have you ever heard MA talk when he's not addressing fans or the media? When relaxed over a coffee he sounds like a right 'Geezer'.

Having had to do interviews myself in front of the TV cameras before abroad with my work, I can tell you it's not easy being natural in front of a camera with a Mic under your nose and having to think quick.

I personally think LJ does a fine job...maybe it's too 'emotionless' and too the same after every game...sometimes after a bad game like Saturday's you don't want to hear the waffle...but in fairness, you can't please everyone.

I'd rather have some info on the game, than none like we've had in the past.

[BobBobSuperBob]

33 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

There are very interesting posts in this thread and I'm beginning to see why the "Dinosaur" type "Gaffer" in football has existed for so long. 

Management in the game is in effect stuck in the dark ages. I've only ever heard one player ever refer to his club managers by their first name. Steven Gerrard as a player when talking about Rafa Benitez and Kenny Dalgleish. The first was surprising even if the second was not as they are big friends away from football.

So perhaps LJ is actually a good coach but because he may be trying to sound "modern and with it" to a squad who are nowhere near ready to embrace it. The British players because they're used to old fashioned dressing room speak and the Europeans who's English will be much more correct as it's probably learnt in a school. When I lived in Portugal, I was told that while I spoke very good grammatically correct Portuguese, it was that, that identified me straight away as a foreigner. 

A squad which contains a player who, when taking part in the head to head quizzes last season, didn't know the name of the river that runs through Bristol city centre. (And it's wasn't a trick question with the answer as Frome).

We need an old head within the coaching set up NOW, not next month or next year. We can't wait for another five years for the players to catch up with LJ or LJ to learn how to speak to them. In words of one syllable and words that they understand.

PS. I understand what a "tickle" is but only because of my background in Technical Service. It means to amend something by minute (very small) amounts at a time so as to arrive at the optimum setting.

Another version of 'Fine Margins' , 0.1 % gains then !!

(Thanks for explanation - that at least makes some sense)

Still waffle though (IMHO)

[cidered abroad]

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Another version of 'Fine Margins' , 0.1 % gains then !!

(Thanks for explanation - that at least makes some sense)

Still waffle though (IMHO)

Could be waffle. Adjusting a packaging machine in very small steps is totally different to a football match where you have an opponent trying to kick lumps out of you. Different but sometimes similar to a machine operator!

[sephjnr]

SAVE_US_Y2J

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Could be waffle. Adjusting a packaging machine in very small steps is totally different to a football match where you have an opponent trying to kick lumps out of you. Different but sometimes similar to a machine operator!

The fine margins thing constantly churned out does my head in tbh

In your industry I can understand the concept, it seems to have emanated in Sport from Brailsford and Clive awoodward in their respective sports

I can understand it fully in cycling and fully except that to be the best you really need to be at the top,of your game in all sorts of respects including the finer details - I think we all understand that general concept but it seems to come up repeatedly in interviews , particularly post match when we havnt won

When LJ continually uses it appears to be a message that we are so close to 'cracking it' , and Imdont think we are 

At best we show (real) promise in patches when things roll our way - I don't get the impression that we are %1 , or %0.1 as he stated the other day , from something very decent

[chinapig]

4 hours ago, EnderMB said:

I actually agree with LJ. Outside of a couple of people, there is a bit of a leadership void in the squad.

However, if you were to believe that leadership comes from experience, that's hardly surprising, is it? Since LJ joined we've signed numerous youngsters, and it's incredibly difficult to have players under 25 that have the experience of this league, of promotion (or even relegation) to lead a group of their peers. I think it's why we were so keen to keep hold of Wilbrahim, as his experience was invaluable in helping Tammy adapt to live at Bristol City.

It's no wonder why all the top managers in the game have said that in football you need a mix of young talent, players working towards their peak, and elder statesmen that have experience with the club, and can drive the future generations forward. Currently, this team is lacking the latter, and with it comes a leadership void. That's not down to LJ, but down to how the club chooses to run itself.

Are you saying you can't win anything with kids? 

[EnderMB]

13 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Are you saying you can't win anything with kids? 

If I remember correctly, that team had a number of experienced players, like Bruce, Irwin, Schmeichel, Hughes, and Keane. The reason I always mention the need for balance is because it's something Fergie has written about quite a few times in his books. He believes you need a mixture of young players, players in the mid-late twenties, and players at their peak to consistently succeed, and given that he's one of very few managers in the world to consistently build winning teams it's a lesson I'm surprised we've not learned from as a club...

But hey, if this becomes my Alan Hansen moment, then I'm happy to say it, and I look forward to our opener next season against Arsenal.

[chinapig]

11 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

If I remember correctly, that team had a number of experienced players, like Bruce, Irwin, Schmeichel, Hughes, and Keane. The reason I always mention the need for balance is because it's something Fergie has written about quite a few times in his books. He believes you need a mixture of young players, players in the mid-late twenties, and players at their peak to consistently succeed, and given that he's one of very few managers in the world to consistently build winning teams it's a lesson I'm surprised we've not learned from as a club...

But hey, if this becomes my Alan Hansen moment, then I'm happy to say it, and I look forward to our opener next season against Arsenal.

Of course I agree really, it was just too good to miss. 

It depends what our objective is. If it's to make money by recruiting young and selling at a profit the balance of the team is neither here nor there.

[paulcityfan]

God he talks so much cringeworthy bollox its difficult to follow the team in the way I would like. Which is to hear interviews from the manager amongst all the other stuff.

Of course there are no feckin leaders, they've all left, been sold or want to go.  You can't appoint a Captain and tell him what to do when he has no respect for the 'General'.  

Six Captains? FFS