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West Brom - Safe Standing


Bristol Rob

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ALBION's hopes of introducing a safe-standing section at The Hawthorns have been rejected by the Government.

The Baggies had offered to run a pilot scheme in the Smethwick End for both home and away fans and made a formal application in October 2017 to install the section this summer in readiness for the 2018/19 campaign.

But Tracey Crouch MP, the Minister for Sport, has ruled out the idea confirming there are no plans to change the all-seater policy at football stadia.

The decision has been described as both "surprising" and "disappointing" by the man who has led Albion's initiative, Director of Operations Mark Miles, who has written back to the Sports Grounds Safety Authority urging a review.

After lengthy research into the safe-standing option, Mark had proposed to install "rail-seating" across the Smethwick in the belief that it would be safer for fans in a section of the stadium where persistent standing is a problem.

He took in visits to Celtic Park and the Bundesliga club TSG 1899 Hoffenheim, where the same system is used successfully, and received encouragement from across the football industry to pursue the proposal.

"I find the decision from the Minister of Sport both surprising and disappointing," he said.

"It will certainly be disappointing for many, many supporters I have spoken to who were in favour of what we were proposing.

"It has also been a regular topic of discussion at our Albion Assembly meetings where the members support has been clear."

He said the Albion's proposal did not seek to introduce additional standing at The Hawthorns but to manage that which was already taking place.

Mark added: "I think the Minister has taken a short-sighted view and is preventing the club from creating a safer environment for supporters. The all-seater policy was developed over 25 years ago and football is a very different place now.

"The system we proposed is well-tested across Europe and has also worked successfully at Celtic, who are governed by different legislation than in England and Wales. We were prepared to run a pilot which would enable the Club to gather data and feedback to further inform us in the issue of crowd safety.

"But I have become convinced that rail-seating would enhance safety. The Club is extremely disappointed with this decision and we have written back requesting a review."

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Posted
 

West Brom have had a proposal to introduce safe standing at The Hawthorns rejected by the government.

The pilot scheme would have meant 3,600 seats in the Smethwick End were converted to 'rail seats', which can be locked in an upright position.

West Brom - who are bottom of the Premier League - hoped to install them in time for next season.

Sports minister Tracey Crouch says there are no plans to change the all-seater policy at football stadiums.

That law was introduced followed recommendations made in the Taylor Report into the 1989 Hillsborough disaster, which claimed the lives of 96 Liverpool fans.

But West Brom say their proposal was based on safety concerns, because of persistent standing.

The club's director of operations Mark Miles, who has led the proposal, described the decision as "surprising" and "disappointing".

"I think the minister has taken a short-sighted view and is preventing the club from creating a safer environment for supporters," he said.

"The all-seater policy was developed over 25 years ago and football is a very different place now."

Miles has travelled to Scottish champions Celtic and German club TSG 1899 Hoffenheim, where the same system is used.

"The system we proposed is well tested across Europe and has also worked successfully at Celtic, who are governed by different legislation than in England and Wales," he said.

"We were prepared to run a pilot which would enable the club to gather data and feedback to further inform us in the issue of crowd safety.

"But I have become convinced that rail seating would enhance safety. The club is extremely disappointed with this decision and we have written back requesting a review."

A spokesperson for the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport said: "We have no plans to change our position and introduce standing accommodation at grounds in the top two divisions covered by the all-seater policy.

"Alongside the sports ground safety authority we will continue to monitor the issue of spectator accommodation and the use of safe standing where it is permitted."

How would it have worked?

The standing positions would have been offered to both home and away supporters.

Away fans would have been given a choice of whether to stand in the upper section of the stand or sit in the lower part.

Ticket prices were expected to remain unchanged and the necessary changes would have been completed in time for the new season in August, when the Baggies are likely to be playing in the Championship.

West Brom's safety officials have tried a number of initiatives to resolve the problem of persistent standing in certain areas of the ground.

The club sought to allay security fears and problems with identifying troublesome fans by highlighting their high-resolution cameras fitted in the stands.

Advanced ticketing and new turnstile operations have also been introduced in recent years.

Officials are also said to have emphasised they would enforce a much more stringent requirement for fans in other sections of regular seating to remain seated.

History of all-seater stadiums

The current legislation relating to all-seater stadiums dates back to the early 1990s and the recommendations of the Taylor Report.

That requires all clubs in the top two divisions of English football to have seating.

Any sanctioning of 'rail seating' would not require a change in the law. Instead, it is thought to be down to the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport to modify how they exercise powers given to them by the legislation.

Celtic - given Scottish clubs are not subject to the legislation affecting their English counterparts - successfully applied to Glasgow City Council to install 'rail seating'.

Their 2,600 rail seats were used for the first time in July 2016 and the club have had visits from a number of English sides keen to learn from their experience.

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Posted

Simply, they have no plans to change the law at this time.

Incidentally, as he points out it works at Celtic- and one bit of hope from this case, they apparently had their initial application for it rejected a while ago.

Should have come in for the UK grounds years ago tbh.

 

Posted
2 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

The law needs to be updated before the atmosphere around the English grounds disappears. 

Fear it won't be, because it suits the authorities down to the ground, the current system.

However,  I really do agree with you.

Posted

Can’t have safe standing. But terracing in lower leagues. Or a couple of clubs  in the championship is acceptable. Doesn’t make sense . Also I know a group of Liverpool fans are against it . But people on the kop persistently stand. 

Posted
15 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

The law needs to be updated before the atmosphere around the English grounds disappears. 

The vast majority of stadia in the world are all seater, and produce incredible atmospheres. In my opinion this is just an excuse bandied by British fans to excuse our poor atmospheres. The SS corner stands all game at the moment and the atmosphere there is hardly electric. A metal crash bar won't change that. 

I am however greatly in favour of it as it is safer and standing areas should be legal. 

Posted
34 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

The vast majority of stadia in the world are all seater, and produce incredible atmospheres. In my opinion this is just an excuse bandied by British fans to excuse our poor atmospheres. The SS corner stands all game at the moment and the atmosphere there is hardly electric. A metal crash bar won't change that. 

I am however greatly in favour of it as it is safer and standing areas should be legal. 

True but I do think the difference with the game in England is the extortionate ticket prices driving away the average working fan and leading to more touristy or dare I say it prawn sandwich style atmospheres. Even Vincent Kompany thinks there’s a correlation. He’s quite outspoken on the topic to be fair. 

Posted
7 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

True but I do think the difference with the game in England is the extortionate ticket prices driving away the average working fan and leading to more touristy or dare I say it prawn sandwich style atmospheres. Even Vincent Kompany thinks there’s a correlation. He’s quite outspoken on the topic to be fair. 

Now that I agree with completely. Another awful consequence of our Season Ticket omni shambles. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

Also I know a group of Liverpool fans are against it

Hmm. 

Hillsborough was appalling and as has come out more to do with policing and the old style delapidated terracing.  But I have heard some Liverpool fans involved in the Justice for the 96 speak out against new rail standing as if they are somehow entitled to speak for everyone.  Feel for their loss, but each club's fans should decide for themselves.

Posted
16 hours ago, Red Army Faction said:

Hmm. 

Hillsborough was appalling and as has come out more to do with policing and the old style delapidated terracing.  But I have heard some Liverpool fans involved in the Justice for the 96 speak out against new rail standing as if they are somehow entitled to speak for everyone.  Feel for their loss, but each club's fans should decide for themselves.

It you were to re-run that fateful day so that every event was the same, with the only difference being seats in the Leppings Lane End, I honestly believe that it would have been so much worse. There'd have been even less space, people falling over the seats...

It all had nothing to do with standing, or in my opinion with the fences, although the latter made it worse for sure. It was 100% down to to many people in a small space. That kills people, whether in a football ground, concert or any other occasion where there are lots of people.

Posted

The West Brom guy said on the radio that one of the Hillsborough groups had visited Celtic Park and given their approval to rail seating. If that’s true that could go a long way to getting it rolled out across England.  He said he thinks it will happen but not in the short term. 

Posted
19 hours ago, Juan Kerr said:

Govenment prix, who feel more comfortable with rugger, tennis and showjumping.

Yeah, can't disagree (not that I have anything against those sports).

Alas, an entirely predictable, albeit shit update to this story.

 

Posted

A question I have posed before, which is safer

Standing in a seated area (as happens now, in lots and lots of instances)

or

Standing in a Safe Standing area?

 

Posted

 

On 10/04/2018 at 11:04, Welcome To The Jungle said:

It you were to re-run that fateful day so that every event was the same, with the only difference being seats in the Leppings Lane End, I honestly believe that it would have been so much worse. There'd have been even less space, people falling over the seats...

It all had nothing to do with standing, or in my opinion with the fences, although the latter made it worse for sure. It was 100% down to to many people in a small space. That kills people, whether in a football ground, concert or any other occasion where there are lots of people.

  Using the Government's logic, they should have made the Glastonbury Festival all-seater.  The only time I ever genuinely feared for my safety in a large crowd was there in the early 00s.   

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