The Championship FFP Thread (Merged)

[Mr Popodopolous]

Thanks for this. It's just a joke tbh even Parachute clubs or middling and lower well run clubs making notable Operating losses, higher up well rub clubs...

We have successfully avoided which is good news. Remember too the 3 who went up will he inflated by Promotion Bonuses, for which my best guess is £15m apiece for Bournemouth and Fulham and Nottingham Forest listed theirs as £20.9m.

Swansea also are due to submit, Derby being in administration etc I assume are exempt for last season although the EFL should have the numbers.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[sh1t_ref_again]

See Bristol live have just done an article, where good old Steve Parish has stated no way of getting rid of Parachute payments, code for FU we are going to look after premier league clubs who have the misfortune to get relegated and play with the rif-raf to ensure they come straight back up.

Crystal Palace chairman Steve Parish has claimed there is no alternative to parachute payments but the Premier League will increase the amount of cash that is shared among the Football League.

Talks remain ongoing over 'A New Deal for Football' that will see a larger chunk of money filtered down into the football pyramid. The Premier League earns around £3.5billion a year from media rights and sponsorship with around 15 per cent of that (£525m) shared among clubs in the Championship, League One and League Two.

A large proportion of that goes to relegated Premier League clubs in the form of parachute payments, with clubs able to receive £94m over a three-year period to help balance the books and keep clubs afloat due to the decrease in TV revenue and high player wages.

Bristol City owner Steve Lansdown has been critical of the system in the past and the unfair playing advantage it creates. It forces other Championship clubs to spend big to match their rival's ambitions meaning their expenditure is higher than their revenue.

Research conducted by Sheffield Hallam University's Business School last year confirmed clubs have a 22 per cent chance of being promoted in the last four years with the extra cash compared to 7.3 per cent without - also meaning sides are twice as likely to go up compared to the years prior.

EFL chairman Rick Parry and Premier League chief executive Richard Masters spoke to MPs last month where they signalled their intentions to create a fairer distribution of money across the EFL ahead of next season but parachute payments remain unresolved.

 

Something needs to be done, why should we have to play in a 'rigged' competition, where massive amount of money, therefore better players are given to a select few. The answer is simple, it is written into players contracts a relegation clause, but the clubs like palace who play each year under the threat of relegation resist as it may affect the players who want to sign

[Mr Popodopolous]

The system is somewhat flawed. Put very politely.

If you bring in a 90-80-70 model and keep Parachute Payments then that is an even bigger inbuilt advantage to those clubs in receipt. Turkeys, Christmas etc.

I had the idea of Pooling Parachute Payments and Solidarity Payments then distributing evenly by divisional weighting.

My other idea was maybe ringfence them for specific items, or cash flow in respect of the gap between Parachute Payments and Solidarity Payments.

[Rob26]

can you have a mooch at one my local clubs, just wondering on the current figures you can find for them let me know how much the owner has taken out of the club, just curious how much the club owes him to see if he gonna be able to sell them or not.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/23482623.hartlepool-united-sale-raj-singh-releases-lengthy-statement/

 

[Kodjias Wrist]

So 500k a week is some pretty serious losses. I thought we made inroads to cut this down. I am assuming the next set of accounts it will be much lower?

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

So 500k a week is some pretty serious losses. I thought we made inroads to cut this down. I am assuming the next set of accounts it will be much lower?

Yep, wages should be lower, Antoine’s money, amortisation lower, etc.

[Mr Popodopolous]

EA suggested somewhere on here a £13m pre tax loss iirc. Who knows how accurate that'll be but it sounds quite plausible IMO. The Cup run too of course, World Cup albeit indoor Fan Village.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Interesting read. Heckingbottom did well on some levels but turning down bids in January when bills and or instalments unpaid or late...hmm.

They signed multiple PL loanees last summer and Liverpool again following on from the Wilson deal with Fulham have kindly restructured the Brewster one. Otoh wages did fall away again ie contractually fell as a 2nd sesson at the level kicked in.

https://theathletic.com/4431965/2023/04/26/how-sheffield-united-defied-the-chaos-to-win-premier-league-promotion/

Edited April 27, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Rob26]

good article that mr popo

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interesting read. Heckingbottom did well on some levels but turning down bids in January when bills and or instalments unpaid or late...hmm.

They signed multiple PL loanees last summer and Liverpool again following on from the Wilson deal with Fulham have kindly restructured the Brewster one. Otoh wages did fall away again ie contractually fell as a 2nd sesson at the level kicked in.

https://theathletic.com/4431965/2023/04/26/how-sheffield-united-defied-the-chaos-to-win-premier-league-promotion/

I really don't like this, it should carry over to the Premier League. Instead they will be free to make more expensive signings and then when they're relegated again, they'll do it all over again.

Had the club stayed in the EFL for next season, they would have been banned from making any signings in the next two transfer windows

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I really don't like this, it should carry over to the Premier League. Instead they will be free to make more expensive signings and then when they're relegated again, they'll do it all over again.

Had the club stayed in the EFL for next season, they would have been banned from making any signings in the next two transfer windows

I agree with you.

I was under the impression that an an embargo for this did carry over, should carry over. Read different things from different sources but it seems odd that the missing obligations as they fall due rule would not. Embargo or restrictions anyway, it appears to have been lifted but that was only perhaps due to a favour by Liverpool over Brewster.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Interesting snippet or two from Reading and their saga. They have been refreshingly candid compared to many tbh.

I don't know if that would be over 2 years, this season or what.

Similarly below. Shares in the land, presumably that doesn't class as a Tangible Fixed Asset whereas land itself would?

It's not certain still, was it this or last year..and could Peterborough still have a case or no.

[Rob26]

Dozy Mmobuosi ready to cancel Sheffield United takeover plans https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bdb0543a-e443-11ed-92e1-c61d17e3691f?shareToken=78fbdc6a15efd9b8d2ce0f06de4400b2

looks like a bun fight is on the cards for the money he has put in, or I'm guessing who ever steps in to buy them now will pay him off.

Mike Ashley come on down the price is right!

[Rob26]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interesting snippet or two from Reading and their saga. They have been refreshingly candid compared to many tbh.

I don't know if that would be over 2 years, this season or what.

Similarly below. Shares in the land, presumably that doesn't class as a Tangible Fixed Asset whereas land itself would?

It's not certain still, was it this or last year..and could Peterborough still have a case or no.

could relegation not help them, do the owners want to put shit loads of money in the club? don't league one just let you make donations so you can fix your ffp if they really wanted to that way maybe. I supose it will just depend on what their latest business plans are they have to meet. as if they have failed maybe the goal posts move slightly with what the EFL expects, epically with relegation

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Rob26 said:

could relegation not help them, do the owners want to put shit loads of money in the club? don't league one just let you make donations so you can fix your ffp if they really wanted to that way maybe. I supose it will just depend on what their latest business plans are they have to meet. as if they have failed maybe the goal posts move slightly with what the EFL expects, epically with relegation

Possibly but on return they would still be subject again to the £39m...they could stick unlimited again subject to any Business Plan, but it can carry on up and down in some ways..

For example the way one FFP website described it was:

1) Championship-Championship-League One, still bound by £39m.

2) Presumably that could be applicable until the final Championship season has dropped off.  E.g. 2 Championship, one League One may still going.

2) Championship-League One-Championship, obviously a £39m applicable.

3) League One-League One-Championship. This one would be quite interesting from a regulatory angle, unsure what should hold.

A side in theory could go down in a food place, lose £20m x 2 in FFP terms..then already needing a big swing just to comply during the first sesson in the Championship.

It's interesting, not many League One clubs seem to have been pouring in the money as they theoretically can. Unsure how many have- Sheffield Wednesday accounts due soon, maybe different. Sunderland also due soon, time will tell.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Indeed, just noticed that Sheffield Wednesday have taken the opportunity to extend their accounts by 3 months.

Due this week but post Covid etc...

Their auditor also retired or quit in mid November.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I won't bother to print screen for all 4 companies but Sheffield Wednesday.

Applicable to Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield 2, Sheffield 3 and Sheffield 5.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

Watford gonna fine for a while!

Signed for Watford by Nigel Pearson btw!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Another good pick by NP although I do wonder how much say managers have over recruitment at Watford. They're so interchangeable, sometimes for better sometimes for worse but they are interchangeable.

Interesting bits in a Times article from today does seem odd to me that Sheffield United have found themselves in this position considering:

1) £42.6m Parachute Payments.

2) A full return to non TV revenue.

3) 50 pct salary reduction on relegation.

4) In many cases a further 10-20 pct this season.

They also have a playoff run, a Cup semi final and automatic promotion this year to help with the revenue.

Their cost base in the PL was relatively low anyway and yes I know instalments but they haven't spent exorbitant amounts ever. This isn't a typical case of overspending so it's a bit of a mystery subject to transfer instalments which were neither huge and are before the inbound instalments of the Ramsdale sale.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Rob26]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Watford gonna fine for a while!

Signed for Watford by Nigel Pearson btw!

he set leiceister up well too, was pretty much his team that won the league

puts on great holidays as well i've heard :laugh:

[Sir Geoff]

Anyone else pick up on Kieran Maguire's little nugget this week that a. Championship club is about to go 'pop' ( my words) due to not only the club itself but also the owners other company being in serious financial trouble.

West Brom / Cardiff ?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Anyone else pick up on Kieran Maguire's little nugget this week that a. Championship club is about to go 'pop' ( my words) due to not only the club itself but also the owners other company being in serious financial trouble.

West Brom / Cardiff ?

Everton

Edited April 28, 2023 by Davefevs

[Rob26]

southend have supisedly missed staff payments this month. and heard rumours reading only made payments at 65% for olaying staff byt 35% to be paid after the holiday

[Mr Popodopolous]

Sunderland lost £6m pre tax coming up last year, they're fine FFP wise. Wage bill of £16m, amortisation about £2m...plenty of room to grow and invest.

Swansea lost £13m pre tax, turnover a shade under £20m in the post Parachute era, still awaiting the full ones.

£26m turnover in League One for Sunderland, that's highly impressive. Could it be a record for a club not in receipt of Parachute Payments?

https://www.safc.com/news/club-news/2023/april/statement-of-accounts

https://www.swanseacity.com/news/swansea-city-confirm-latest-accounts-2

Edited April 29, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Sunderland lost £6m pre tax coming up last year, they're fine FFP wise. Wage bill of £16m, amortisation about £2m...plenty of room to grow and invest.

Swansea lost £13m pre tax, turnover a shade under £20m in the post Parachute era, still awaiting the full ones.

£26m turnover in League One for Sunderland, that's highly impressive. Could it be a record for a club not in receipt of Parachute Payments?

https://www.safc.com/news/club-news/2023/april/statement-of-accounts

https://www.swanseacity.com/news/swansea-city-confirm-latest-accounts-2

You able to access Swansea’s accounts?  I can’t see them on Companies House yet.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You able to access Swansea’s accounts?  I can’t see them on Companies House yet.

Ah no possibly I wasn't clear, the headline figures on that site, the link I posted are the only bits that are in the public domain so far.

[Mr Popodopolous]

If West Brom stay down it's more succinctly put than me. Worth remembering too that they were in the PL in 2003-04.

I would say though, I am sure there was something even pre the formal introduction as if you look at relegated clubs accounts you will see higher TV revenue in the season following relegation than their regular Championship peers. Perhaps there was always something in the PL era but it used to be far, far lower and not exceeding 2 years.

[Davefevs]

Shown on tv more, hence higher revenues???

[Mr Popodopolous]

Possibly that yeah, will try and dig out some examples from the early 2000's say.

[Rob26]

On 28/04/2023 at 15:06, Sir Geoff said:

Anyone else pick up on Kieran Maguire's little nugget this week that a. Championship club is about to go 'pop' ( my words) due to not only the club itself but also the owners other company being in serious financial trouble.

West Brom / Cardiff ?

he means everton at end of may :laugh: