Mr Popodopolous Posted June 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) On the Saudi and FFP note. 3 of the below if these come off, Saudi bound. Handy (Mendy, Koulibaly, Ziyech). Edited June 18, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2023 Back closer to earth, our level I've read snippets that imply Sheffield Wednesday are going for it this season. We still are none the wiser as to their position, they haven't even released the 2021-22 accounts yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) Stoke are reportedly going big too. Or set to be. Granted Johnson will be on a free if this is accurate. Still a notable issue IMO with some of how they reached compliance, other clubs should raise this quite strongly with the EFL again. In theory if all methods accepted I reckon they could make a pre tax loss of £33-34m this season ie £26m in FFP terms. That's before any profit on disposal if players. Their underlying pre tax loss in 2021-22 was £29m and their wage bill £37m. Reckon they could therefore run a wage bill of £35m or above, maybe more if they really wanted to. I say underlying loss, this is before profit on disposal but let's not forget the Covid impairment, re-added transfer profit and some questionable add-backs ie £1-2m in 2021-22 towards transfer related issues. Edited June 18, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 18, 2023 Report Share Posted June 18, 2023 by my definition of “Stoke going for it” that’s not going for it!!! Two returning loanees, one player (Johnson) on a free probably at the end of his peak, possibly about to decline. The other, I like (Philogene). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) This is fair but I assume this is only for a start plus we don't necessarily know the types of fees and wages they will be offering. Quite a lot left too but I don't see a huge difference in percentage terms or indeed actions in terms of Covid claims and then those of Everton- thinking more historic than present. Elsewhere, Cardiff still want to sign up to 10 players as per one report.. .some have left but their FFP position seems interesting, maybe they would be on track to breach this upcoming season. They reportedly cannot pay fees or loan fees as it stands. Edited June 19, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 19, 2023 Report Share Posted June 19, 2023 7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: This is fair but I assume this is only for a start plus we don't necessarily know the types of fees and wages they will be offering. Oh, totally agree, but it’s hardly a group of four players to really set the juices flowing of a team who are supposed to be going for it…regardless of fees and wages. Who’s gonna follow, based on this initial four. You normally try and secure your top targets asap. If these are their top targets, then I’d say Stoke aren’t going for it, and Neil is trying to re-build a squad slowly within a limited budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcnsBcfc Posted June 19, 2023 Report Share Posted June 19, 2023 8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: This is fair but I assume this is only for a start plus we don't necessarily know the types of fees and wages they will be offering. Quite a lot left too but I don't see a huge difference in percentage terms or indeed actions in terms of Covid claims and then those of Everton- thinking more historic than present. Elsewhere, Cardiff still want to sign up to 10 players as per one report.. .some have left but their FFP position seems interesting, maybe they would be on track to breach this upcoming season. They reportedly cannot pay fees or loan fees as it stands. I think the inability to pay any sort of fees is tied to a UEFA sanction for the next 3 windows over the Sala saga. So much for the wealthy owner spending tens of millions on transfer fees this summer then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob26 Posted June 19, 2023 Report Share Posted June 19, 2023 On 17/06/2023 at 12:24, chinapig said: Yes, having read it again this is ambiguous: Protests are being arranged by supporters after frustration built over the recent EFL decision. Could be either way, though frustration over the EFL decision implies the EFL is the target. Time will tell. I read it that they are trying to force the current owner out, there is no way you can blame the efl for the owner not plugging cash flow problems, to protest against them would be a complete waste of time. as I imagine that disagreeing with the EFL over the late/missed payments, its sort of excuse you may be able to use the first time, not the 3rd or 4th time its happened in the last year :laugh:. he may just be trying to negotiate/fight the severity of any sanctions that made be levied against them as it will probs reduce interest or the price he gets if he sells it on 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Davefevs said: Oh, totally agree, but it’s hardly a group of four players to really set the juices flowing of a team who are supposed to be going for it…regardless of fees and wages. Who’s gonna follow, based on this initial four. You normally try and secure your top targets asap. If these are their top targets, then I’d say Stoke aren’t going for it, and Neil is trying to re-build a squad slowly within a limited budget. That's true. Maybe I an misjudging Stoke situation a bit. Sensible rebuilds from an improved position usually work out better anyway. Unsure some will come that cheap though , maybe 2 cheap and 2 more costly of those 4. 1 hour ago, NcnsBcfc said: I think the inability to pay any sort of fees is tied to a UEFA sanction for the next 3 windows over the Sala saga. So much for the wealthy owner spending tens of millions on transfer fees this summer then. Reportedly they are appealing, the EFL decision in the end- FIFA lifted theirs once instalment one went in. My serious question though is how much headroom under FFP. Remember the restrictions we were under from summer 2022 to late January 2023, maybe even January 2022 given we only added Klose on a free but definitely summer 2022 and until we sold Semenyo January 2023. Edited June 19, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) Good. Especially the Chelsea stuff if there are multiple players ahead of a June 30th deadline. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/06/19/chelsea-wolves-call-inquiry-saudi-arabia-transfer-news/ The Neves one is a bit more complex perhaps as Wolves concerns are about future breaches and maybe to March 2024 or May 2024 or perhaps beyond whereas Chelsea literally a ticking clock to end of June. Having said that Chelsea may yet have to be taking less than hoped on Kovacic, Mount, Havertz e.g. according to some reports. Edited June 19, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2023 Commercially speaking if you know or it is widely expected that a side have a firm deadline and there is no reason they shouldn't, you squeeze for every £ or if you're say a Milan club or maybe Napoli e.g. would show a late interest in Chalobah or someone every € you can, as the closer to the deadline the more oressibf the need maybe. One suggestion that gross fees for Mendy, Koulibaly, Ziyech, Aumabeyang, job lot £50m. Profit on Disposal not much over £10m. Chelsea would need a tad more I suspect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Good. Especially the Chelsea stuff if there are multiple players ahead of a June 30th deadline. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/06/19/chelsea-wolves-call-inquiry-saudi-arabia-transfer-news/ The Neves one is a bit more complex perhaps as Wolves concerns are about future breaches and maybe to March 2024 or May 2024 or perhaps beyond whereas Chelsea literally a ticking clock to end of June. Having said that Chelsea may yet have to be taking less than hoped on Kovacic, Mount, Havertz e.g. according to some reports. This is exactly what I was worried about happening. Clubs like Wolves can do dodgy deals with the Saudis to get them out of ffp trouble. I've never been happy with the way that Wolves got to the Premier league. And now I hear that Jorge Mendes is involved in the Neves deal with the Saudis, that rings alarm bells to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 5 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: This is exactly what I was worried about happening. Clubs like Wolves can do dodgy deals with the Saudis to get them out of ffp trouble. I've never been happy with the way that Wolves got to the Premier league. And now I hear that Jorge Mendes is involved in the Neves deal with the Saudis, that rings alarm bells to me. In fairness is £47m for Neves “dodgy”? I’d say no, some if the other transfers, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 25 minutes ago, Davefevs said: In fairness is £47m for Neves “dodgy”? I’d say no, some if the other transfers, maybe. I dunno, seems quite a lot for someone who has 12 months left on his contract? Can't see many other teams wanting to pay £47m for him? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRoss Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 22 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: I dunno, seems quite a lot for someone who has 12 months left on his contract? Can't see many other teams wanting to pay £47m for him? Not sure, wouldn't be surprised if a Prem team had bid 40/45 already for him. He's been a good player for 3/4 seasons consistently and still at a decent age. Same with the fees quoted for Maddison. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: In fairness is £47m for Neves “dodgy”? I’d say no, some if the other transfers, maybe. Mike Taylor of BBC Radio WM described the fee as beyond all expectations though. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/wolverhampton-wanderers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcnsBcfc Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 On 18/06/2023 at 23:02, Mr Popodopolous said: Back closer to earth, our level I've read snippets that imply Sheffield Wednesday are going for it this season. We still are none the wiser as to their position, they haven't even released the 2021-22 accounts yet! The same people that said Cardiff were "going for it" no doubt. Somewhat difficult when you're under a transfer fee embargo in their case. I have no doubt that Weds will have to improve their team. It is full of 30+ somethings, plus a large number that have no experience of playing at L1 level. A big job, and probably playing some part in Darren Moore leaving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 I'm on the fence about the Neves fee, Portugal international midfielder, he is in and around peak years, PL and CL experience- Saudi Arabia as well as the older mega stars need some of those types of players to help build the League. Read that one reason he left Porto relatively cheap in 2p17 as they had an FFP deadline to hit. If Barcelona didn't have domestic Tebas FFP issues perhaps they would have made a large bid anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 58 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said: The same people that said Cardiff were "going for it" no doubt. Somewhat difficult when you're under a transfer fee embargo in their case. I have no doubt that Weds will have to improve their team. It is full of 30+ somethings, plus a large number that have no experience of playing at L1 level. A big job, and probably playing some part in Darren Moore leaving. Perhaps yeah. Their fans will be enthusiastic or some of them, they have only 14 players contracted for sure with two more awaiting renewal offers. Their accounts will be instructive. Cardiff I don't get. I still believe they were looking to use the late Sala, compensation or reversal of Impairment as part of their FFP compliance plan and spending plan, that avenue shut for the foreseeable..at best they're right on the line of FFP, or they are set to breach and yet they barely speak of it- fans, local media anyone. The no fee thing is related to Sala and they're reportedly appealing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob26 Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 the saudi transfers may not be dodgy tho, sure they are clear bail outs for clubs, and I think even championship clubs may benefit also but the standard of the league is lower, they know they have to pay a premium to buy players ahead of other clubs and over pay players also. I'd argue if the owners are daft enough to pay that money then you can't not let a club benefit even if they have struggled with ffp and these deals have got them back on track. But where I do see issues with any transfers potentially is when deals are done between clubs who have the same group of owners, this is where the FFP fraud is and where loop holes should be closed, say saudi pif own club signs messi for example for a suadi team, then he turns up on loan to newcastle and newcastle pay hadly any wages then I would be like yeah this deal needs the league to place a ffp valuation on it. it can be sorted by the league re-valuing the transfers as both ffp costs and revenue. So in my example you could be like we think you should be paying 10.4m in wages per year for that deal but because of how it is structured you have off shored the costs, so we are removing 10.4m from your allowance for the year. same with if they had someone buy a 30m player for 100m in the group. they could down value that fee to 30m and have an independent body that assess both sides before ruling on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 35 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Perhaps yeah. Their fans will be enthusiastic or some of them, they have only 14 players contracted for sure with two more awaiting renewal offers. Their accounts will be instructive. Cardiff I don't get. I still believe they were looking to use the late Sala, compensation or reversal of Impairment as part of their FFP compliance plan and spending plan, that avenue shut for the foreseeable..at best they're right on the line of FFP, or they are set to breach and yet they barely speak of it- fans, local media anyone. The no fee thing is related to Sala and they're reportedly appealing it. My best friend is a Cardiff fan and I keep mentioning to him that I think they are right on the limit of FFP but he's totally oblivious to it and instead keeps talking about them signing Ramsey and how their new manager has lots of signings lined up. I just can't see it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: My best friend is a Cardiff fan and I keep mentioning to him that I think they are right on the limit of FFP but he's totally oblivious to it and instead keeps talking about them signing Ramsey and how their new manager has lots of signings lined up. I just can't see it myself. Paet of me wonders if their fee embargo on Sala is part of a plan "Oh we'd like to spend money but this time prevents". Thereby making themselves look positive while helping to stay just about within FFP. Not appealing too hard, kinda thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Paet of me wonders if their fee embargo on Sala is part of a plan "Oh we'd like to spend money but this time prevents". Thereby making themselves look positive while helping to stay just about within FFP. Not appealing too hard, kinda thing. It could well be. I can genuinely see Cardiff maybe going down this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: It could well be. I can genuinely see Cardiff maybe going down this season. Still early of course but they could be in trouble. On one hand they may have more managerial stability (thought they sacked Morrison early but that's Tan), otoh players such as Kipre, Philogene and in particular Kaba will have been more than useful for them. Well they aren't there now. Even Wickham chipped in with bits, not there now. Edited June 20, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTuga Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) Anything involving Jorge Mendes I'm just going to assume from the get go that there's some sort of shenanigans involved. Edited June 20, 2023 by RobinTuga 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) Edited June 20, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 A few days ago Ceferin was boasting that he wasn't concerned. https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/uefa-rush-introduce-emergency-rule-30278985 Looks like they will be looking at these issues, UEFA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: A few days ago Ceferin was boasting that he wasn't concerned. https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/uefa-rush-introduce-emergency-rule-30278985 Looks like they will be looking at these issues, UEFA. They're too late with the maximum 5 year contract rule, Chelsea have just given Nkunku a 6 year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, chinapig said: They're too late with the maximum 5 year contract rule, Chelsea have just given Nkunku a 6 year deal. They seem too late with this as well in one level. Tbh if as some reports suggest Chelsea make a collective profit of only £10m or so across Mendy, Koulibaly, Ziyech, Aubameyang ie Gross fee minus remaining Book Value that isn't all thst major at that level..but if left unchecked it could become much worse down the line. Although tbh the article actually references the Juventus issue. I guess they'll use that as a starting point. Edited June 20, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) Hmm. 2021-22 not dissimilar loss wise according to Chansiri. Until their accounts for 2021-22 are our we cannot get a handle on it. Think the losses remain £13m or £39m after allowances and Covid expenses. Edited June 20, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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