Mr Popodopolous Posted June 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) Read a little further mind you, seen it said £10m losses. Well that is very decent despite the fall in TV income. Edited June 20, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 Hard to know though based on this. Struggling to see where £10m loss kicks in in unless there was a bit that isn't in the transcript and it was around £10m in 2021-22 and the same again in 2022-23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 Guess he’s saying they’ve not really bought any players nor sold any players for fees, so if wage budget is similar, so should P&L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 Ah I see yeah. We know that their baseline Championship revenue has been around £20-22m. Isn't the TV money gap around £6-7m annually, they don't seem to disaggregate the revenue into many categories which doesn't help. We know that in 2020-21 the Covid losses wwre probably £8-10m and the wage bill was £24.287m. Their total revenue was £11.644m plus £761k in what I assume to have been furlough. Anyway it seems to he intimated as being a £10m loss but without seeing the accounts I can't begin to look at clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 A long, long, time ago…. …it finally happened! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob26 Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 I get that they should have a problem with inflated transfer fees if the transfer never took place for that value in the first place, thats fraud. but if the club buys them for considerably over what is deemed to be market value by uefa or their panel but actually pay the money how do you disagree with that value, football transfer fee's are always subjective and if certain clubs are known to have more money then selling clubs may ask for more than a club with a smaller budget would pay them, and sometimes they will pay. Seems to be dangerous territory to get into and one that could be very easily challenged. Look at us when we were selling spence last summer to spurs, if spurs pulled out and Forrest was the only realistic option I guarantee he would of left for 2-4m less, so should the deal be valued at less revenue for us? if some foreigner with loads of money come in and beat spurs by another 5m are we to be denied that revenue for ffp just because the club operates outside of ffp and are free spending? what happens if the club buys the player within an league with FFP and they think he is worth half that, does the buying club get to spend money and not have that half of the fee count to his ffp because they wont give the revenue to the sale club? dangerous ground I feel will be very easy to argue your way out of with a strong legal team. like selling players to saudi they have to over pay the players to get the players to come over, if they are known to be over paying the players then they are likely going to have to over pay on the transfer fee to make it happen. It's very typical that when they are investing in our companies that they are having to pay well over the market value to close the deal. It's how they are working and coz people know they pay more to get what they want they will always pay a premium until they have the leverage in these situations. just like if a premier league club is in for a player a non elite la liga 1 team is after, the premier league team is probs going to pay more than the la liga 1 would, and if the premier league team were not interested and the club still wanted to sell the player they would take less to the la liga team for sure as they have less money. but inter group sales and loans, and short term player flips definitely should be their place to investigate and revalue as they are the places where the clear fraud and rule bending can occur. They should really limit much more how many clubs you can own around the world or limit interactions between the teams in transfer markets, i just don't see how they can legally justify downgrading a transfer fee which was definitely paid out just because someone paid more to seal the deal. My opinion is uefa are more interested in protecting their own business as don't want to be in a position in 5-10 years time if they keep this trend up where its starting to become as big a league as the premier league because everyone is going over there as the money is way better. foreigners who come here will definitely start to favour the moves once the scales start to tip if all they are lots of really good teams made over there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob26 Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) now if this is true and not just speculation, then this is the stuff they should be revaluing, much more so than them paying premium to get players to play in the league https://www.footballinsider247.com/sources-newcastle-united-discuss-sensational-ruben-neves-deal/ I would make a case of the 50m they spent on him, how ever many years the fee is spread out over his contract years you could apply 2 of them years value to newcastle as a way to revalue it. Edited June 21, 2023 by Rob26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 17 minutes ago, Rob26 said: now if this is true and not just speculation, then this is the stuff they should be revaluing, much more so than them paying premium to get players to play in the league https://www.footballinsider247.com/sources-newcastle-united-discuss-sensational-ruben-neves-deal/ I would make a case of the 50m they spent on him, how ever many years the fee is spread out over his contract years you could apply 2 of them years value to newcastle as a way to revalue it. Well that's one way round FFP. Nothing in the rules to stop it and meanwhile FIFA and UEFA are on their backs having their tummy's tickled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob26 Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said: Well that's one way round FFP. Nothing in the rules to stop it and meanwhile FIFA and UEFA are on their backs having their tummy's tickled. i dont think uefa likes it at all but its not something you can stop quickly as new rules take time, also on reading 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 43 minutes ago, Rob26 said: i dont think uefa likes it at all but its not something you can stop quickly as new rules take time, also on reading Thanks, that clarifies the earlier ambiguous reports. Good luck to the fans though who would want to buy the club as it stands is an open question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 Just on Chelsea. That really isn't so far especially inflated..if that is €40m for the pair, not individually then that's about £34.4m in gross fee. Book Value of Koulibaly alone is £25.5m, Mendy £8.8m- they may just break even or make a very modest profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 16 hours ago, Rob26 said: now if this is true and not just speculation, then this is the stuff they should be revaluing, much more so than them paying premium to get players to play in the league https://www.footballinsider247.com/sources-newcastle-united-discuss-sensational-ruben-neves-deal/ I would make a case of the 50m they spent on him, how ever many years the fee is spread out over his contract years you could apply 2 of them years value to newcastle as a way to revalue it. I was thinking the other day this is a loop hole that clubs like Newcastle could explore. Especially with Mendes involved and his previous dealings with Wolves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) https://www.football365.com/news/chelsea-book-values-june-30-transfer-deadline-havertz-mount-kovacic-lukaku-feature Good Chelsea FFP article although the large impairment in 2021-22 may well be Lukaku or a major chunk of his value. Edited June 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 Back in the Champ… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) Interesting that he is going even below his release clause. £7m fee vs £8m release clause..no Parachute Payments means sales inevitable of course. They are also on the £39m limit now going into this year as the final PL Season has disappeared from view Edited June 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Interesting that he is going even below his release clause. Shows they need outbound to create inbound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Shows they need outbound to create inbound. Could be partially due to the other financial reasons too, ie MSD, owner not repaying loan etc. Perhaps a mix of that and FFP. Edited June 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 32 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Could be partially due to the other financial reasons too, ie MSD, owner not repaying loan etc. Perhaps a mix of that and FFP. I don’t think West Brom have FFP issues in terms of the £39m do they? Dodgy owner FFP stuff, maybe! This sounds like Cashflow to me? Happy to be educated, as akways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I don’t think West Brom have FFP issues in terms of the £39m do they? Dodgy owner FFP stuff, maybe! This sounds like Cashflow to me? Happy to be educated, as akways. Tbh yeah agree cashflow seems the major one. If they did have any upcoming, selling O'Shea should resolve for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Could be partially due to the other financial reasons too, ie MSD, owner not repaying loan etc. Perhaps a mix of that and FFP. You must be joking. Has their owner still not repaid his loan? Well, I’ll be blowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 23 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: You must be joking. Has their owner still not repaid his loan? Well, I’ll be blowed. No he hasn't and likely never will. They took a £20m loan from MSD and with interest will have to repay £28m. The sole remaining Director has refused to meet the Action For Albion fan group. I trust the EFL are on the case though I have not seen anything in the media. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 22, 2023 Report Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 hour ago, chinapig said: No he hasn't and likely never will. They took a £20m loan from MSD and with interest will have to repay £28m. The sole remaining Director has refused to meet the Action For Albion fan group. I trust the EFL are on the case though I have not seen anything in the media. I was. of course, being sarcastic with my post . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted June 23, 2023 Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 As to the WBA loan from MSD, I did hear that it was a circular loan. Note that MSD are 'Security Agents' not lenders as detailed in the Charge. I did hear a rumour that the cash borrowed from the club went in a circle and was lent back at interest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 23, 2023 Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 This verdict feels like a fudge. My bigger question with Cardiff is, as always, P&S. Who are they selling and how far have they cut costs. £39m adjusted loss is a £39m adjusted loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) On another Cardiff note. https://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=234142&sid=4426f99a851c43f50ca0efe67e28bccd Looks ike they are pressing ahead with their Sala case. €110m?? Pre-trial hearing. Wonder if they're looking to include potential compensation in their P&S calculations. Which would be an absolute nonsense. Edited June 23, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted June 23, 2023 Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: This verdict feels like a fudge. It's a negotiated settlement so it will always be a fudge. That said it does contain a clear warning regarding future conduct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob26 Posted June 23, 2023 Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 On 21/06/2023 at 14:19, chinapig said: Thanks, that clarifies the earlier ambiguous reports. Good luck to the fans though who would want to buy the club as it stands is an open question. probs be interest, of course owner has to write off significant amount of the money he has put in the club and maybe what he paid for the club, probs be a paid at different rates based on level of league they get into 21 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Interesting that he is going even below his release clause. £7m fee vs £8m release clause..no Parachute Payments means sales inevitable of course. They are also on the £39m limit now going into this year as the final PL Season has disappeared from view in the comments there is some people who believe most if not all has been paid up front, which is one way you could get wba to give in on the fee so they get it all now rather than 8m over loads of years On 22/06/2023 at 04:40, W-S-M Seagull said: I was thinking the other day this is a loop hole that clubs like Newcastle could explore. Especially with Mendes involved and his previous dealings with Wolves. he dont work to help newcastle tho, but does not take a genuis to come up with the idea once he had been signed or even before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 23, 2023 Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, Rob26 said: in the comments there is some people who believe most if not all has been paid up front, which is one way you could get wba to give in on the fee so they get it all now rather than 8m over loads of years Yep…From reading Kieran Maguire’s price of football book… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob26 Posted June 23, 2023 Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 thanks i've just got the audio version of that book, should be a class listen in the car, I enjoy thier podcast. if anyone else wants it in audio sign up to audible 30 day trial and you get 1 book to keep for free (via 1 free book credit you get per month on the service), and you can cancel straight after and still listen to anything else for the month and they will let you get another trial like prime a few months later too https://www.audible.co.uk/ just went to cancel and they offered me 1 more free book to stay haha, im gonna claim it and cancel again :laugh: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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