Only one of our opening seven games...

[Kid in the Riot]

...have we had more possession than the opposition (Brum A); what do we read into that? 

Seems in stark contrast to last season when we bossed most games.

So, deliberate tactic or a sign we're struggling in possession? 

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

...have we had more possession than the opposition (Brum A); what do we read into that? 

Seems in stark contrast to last season when we bossed most games.

So, deliberate tactic or a sign we're struggling in possession? 

Possibly that our passing tended to be more cautious last season? Plus the loss of Webster.

[Prinny]

A combination of changing our pressing style and we're trying to get the ball forward earlier to suit our forwards.

[REDOXO]

We are playing a much more counter attacking game. 

Nagy and Massinga step in to break up play and we move the ball fast with energy. In the past we had much slower players looking for passes from the back, our style has changed. We play with energy close down step in and spring.

[cityexile]

7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

...have we had more possession than the opposition (Brum A); what do we read into that? 

Seems in stark contrast to last season when we bossed most games.

So, deliberate tactic or a sign we're struggling in possession? 

Tactical? We have a lot less of the ‘to me, to you’ and tend to be looking to get forward and wide much quicker, transitioning much faster.

Having said that, we are not exactly solid either. Injuries not helping that of course, but giving away at least as many chances as we are creating. Not dull!

[pongo88]

Stats regarding possession can be misleading. You can have a lot of possession and create nothing. The opposition can have a lot of possession but never look dangerous. You can have less possession than the opposition but still create more chances etc. 

[marcofisher]

Moving the ball a lot quicker with players like Nagy, Brownhill and Massengo in the middle. Very different options to what we had with Marlon Pack who didn't suit this play style. 

[Dr Balls]

Boro had a lot of possession today but for long periods much of it was just along their back 4. We are looking to move the ball quicker, so don’t tend to hang around unlike last season where Pack for all his qualities would often hold onto the ball way longer than necessary or was good for getting forward.

[Merrick's Marvels]

Tactic. Coupled with players who can now move, in and out of possession, at the required pace. 

Total guess, mind. What the uck do we know?

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

Possibly that our passing tended to be more cautious last season? Plus the loss of Webster.

I agree with that - we played a lot of short, safe passes last season that didn’t really hurt the oppo but kept us in possession 

[RedEyez]

Didn’t we boss the majority of the opening games when we first got back into the Championship with Cotts, only to lose games on individual errors and the inability to put the ball in the back of the net?

Possession means very little. Scoring more than your opponent is imperative and the final score is all that really matters in the grand scheme of things .

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

...have we had more possession than the opposition (Brum A); what do we read into that? 

Seems in stark contrast to last season when we bossed most games.

So, deliberate tactic or a sign we're struggling in possession? 

With afobe and wiemann up top we’re better suited to playing on the break . Bentley comes into that as well , how quickly it starts our attacks . It suits us  atm 

[The Bard]

Reflection of our personnel.  Pack assured we had possession but a lot of it was plodding and without much purpose.  We're more dynamic now..

[OldlandReddies]

2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

...have we had more possession than the opposition (Brum A); what do we read into that? 

Seems in stark contrast to last season when we bossed most games.

So, deliberate tactic or a sign we're struggling in possession? 

100% change in tactics....and it's clearly working. 

[myol'man]

We seem to be playing a quicker higher risk strategy. Very entertaining to watch, will it get results?

Time will tell

[RedM]

2 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Stats regarding possession can be misleading. You can have a lot of possession and create nothing. The opposition can have a lot of possession but never look dangerous. You can have less possession than the opposition but still create more chances etc. 

Exactly my view too. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

9 minutes ago, myol'man said:

We seem to be playing a quicker higher risk strategy. Very entertaining to watch, will it get results?

Time will tell

I’m sure LJ will admit we were far too open as a home side today (Though I’ve seen little credit for Boro who I thought were excellent - Ashley Fletcher caused us all sorts of issues with his movement) but if we can get some players back and work on our shape we will get the balance much better I’m sure

Far more positives on the pitch , than negatives for me , and enjoying watching it surely a massive plus 

[joe jordans teeth]

2 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Stats regarding possession can be misleading. You can have a lot of possession and create nothing. The opposition can have a lot of possession but never look dangerous. You can have less possession than the opposition but still create more chances etc. 

That is true but we are giving up possession by not being good enough to keep the ball ourselves at the moment,chasing the ball all game and then expecting to counter attack every time the keeper gets it is not a pedigree for success 

[Northern Red]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’m sure LJ will admit we were far too open as a home side today (Though I’ve seen little credit for Boro who I thought were excellent - Ashley Fletcher caused us all sorts of issues with his movement) but if we can get some players back and work on our shape we will get the balance much better I’m sure

Far more positives on the pitch , than negatives for me , and enjoying watching it surely a massive plus 

Definitely. A significant improvement entertainment-wise on Leeds just under a month ago, and 80%+ of home games last season.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Definitely. A significant improvement entertainment-wise on Leeds just under a month ago, and 80%+ of home games last season.

And in theory , a lot easier to work on and improve shape and structure without the ball than turn a blunt looking side (Which we looked at home last season) into a threatening force

We have creativity  and creating chances and goals now , some work and tweaking which is hardly surprising as it’s a new side / squad in major parts playing in a different way  (I’m actually surprised how many points we’ve acquired to date bearing that in mind) 

Personally i think we look , or have the look of a better side already , than we did last season 

Really enjoying some of what we are seeing , we have some quality to work with 

 

[JoeAman08]

It seems each of LJs full seasons here our style changes. Not a positive or negative just a thought. 

Perhaps due to the amount of change we get within our squad each season. For sure think we look to hit channels early and often this year to get us up the pitch quicker. Similar to crosses, this comes as a % game. A lot of times it won’t come off leading to teams regaining possession quicker. Not against it per se but also think once/if we get to full strength and gelling that may change yet again. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said:

It seems each of LJs full seasons here our style changes. Not a positive or negative just a thought. 

Perhaps due to the amount of change we get within our squad each season. For sure think we look to hit channels early and often this year to get us up the pitch quicker. Similar to crosses, this comes as a % game. A lot of times it won’t come off leading to teams regaining possession quicker. Not against it per se but also think once/if we get to full strength and gelling that may change yet again. 

Whether it dawned on him last season Joe but I recall him commenting at one point that out of 7 or 8 wins we’d had , in only one had we had more possession

Possession stats became almost the popular way of analysing a game in the media , and are over stated IMHO

Just one factor

[Dolman_Stand]

That Birmingham weren't very good!

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’m sure LJ will admit we were far too open as a home side today (Though I’ve seen little credit for Boro who I thought were excellent - Ashley Fletcher caused us all sorts of issues with his movement) but if we can get some players back and work on our shape we will get the balance much better I’m sure

Far more positives on the pitch , than negatives for me , and enjoying watching it surely a massive plus 

Shape was the issue today.  We had a flat, static shape which got exposed by crossing runners.  @jbcfc told us McNair would break beyond his own forwards, but Fletcher and Johnson did to.

It made for an exciting game, and I thought we were just getting a bit of control after an hour, and Boro had a lot of possession at the start of the second half.  I’m not blaming subs....I don’t we had the right subs to affect the shape without bringing Williams on and going 5212/532.  Perhaps we should have.

But fair play, having conceded two quick goals to fall behind, we roused ourselves and got the equaliser with a pretty simple goal.

Boro were very good, and played a bit of a 4123.  We never really got anyone on Clayton, and if I had one criticism of Weimann and Afobe today it was that they didn’t quite get their press or closing passing lanes down quite right....hence Clayton a lot of time to start their attacks.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Shape was the issue today.  We had a flat, static shape which got exposed by crossing runners.  @jbcfc told us McNair would break beyond his own forwards, but Fletcher and Johnson did to.

It made for an exciting game, and I thought we were just getting a bit of control after an hour, and Boro had a lot of possession at the start of the second half.  I’m not blaming subs....I don’t we had the right subs to affect the shape without bringing Williams on and going 5212/532.  Perhaps we should have.

But fair play, having conceded two quick goals to fall behind, we roused ourselves and got the equaliser with a pretty simple goal.

Boro were very good, and played a bit of a 4123.  We never really got anyone on Clayton, and if I had one criticism of Weimann and Afobe today it was that they didn’t quite get their press or closing passing lanes down quite right....hence Clayton a lot of time to start their attacks.

I thought Clayton was excellent , as was Ashley Fletcher with his movement - caused all sorts of headaches

Said somewhere else - I thought we needed an organiser to calm things down at times and get us reset

[SedRA]

44 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’m sure LJ will admit we were far too open as a home side today (Though I’ve seen little credit for Boro who I thought were excellent - Ashley Fletcher caused us all sorts of issues with his movement) but if we can get some players back and work on our shape we will get the balance much better I’m sure

Far more positives on the pitch , than negatives for me , and enjoying watching it surely a massive plus 

I was impressed with their attacking movement generally. Particularly first 20 minutes or so, before we settled into it a bit more. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I thought Clayton was excellent , as was Ashley Fletcher with his movement - caused all sorts of headaches

Said somewhere else - I thought we needed an organiser to calm things down at times and get us reset

Perhaps Williams might have been the answer then.

Still, we got the point....11 from 6....with lots of injuries....nice little break now.  I think we need it.

[Mad Cyril]

1 hour ago, RedEyez said:

Possession means very little. Scoring more than your opponent is imperative and the final score is all that really matters in the grand scheme of things .

Bit of a sweeping generalisation to suggest the team scoring more than its opponents most frequently tend to win the league isn't it? 

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Perhaps Williams might have been the answer then.

Still, we got the point....11 from 6....with lots of injuries....nice little break now.  I think we need it.

With a new side , a new style , plus injuries disrupting I’m surprised at our points tally to date

Lots more positives than any negatives and the negatives the easier ones to fix IMHO

(Looking at Palmer on occasions today I again thought , and not a expression I’d throw around - too good for the Championship in some aspects  )

[The Bard]

25 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

With a new side , a new style , plus injuries disrupting I’m surprised at our points tally to date

Lots more positives than any negatives and the negatives the easier ones to fix IMHO

(Looking at Palmer on occasions today I again thought , and not a expression I’d throw around - too good for the Championship in some aspects  )

Some aspects but nowhere near in terms of his allround game.  Biggest problem with him isn't 'laziness' per se, more that I think he switches off too often.  His vision is outstanding but he would have to improve in a lot of the aspects of his game to be good enough for a higher level.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Some aspects but nowhere near in terms of his allround game.  Biggest problem with him isn't 'laziness' per se, more that I think he switches off too often.  His vision is outstanding but he would have to improve in a lot of the aspects of his game to be good enough for a higher level.

Bear in mind he’s being asked to do here , far more than he has Id suggest at any point in his career to date 

Hes learning ,   and his attitude has been excellent IMHO 

I had him wrong , and wouldn’t have believed I would have seen the work he’s trying to put in tbh 

Potentially outstanding at his level IMHO 

[1bristolcity]

Possession is nothing unless you have an end product, clearly we do. 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

Possession is nothing unless you have an end product, clearly we do. 

We.

Have.

Threat.

[1bristolcity]

5 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

Possession is nothing unless you have an end product, clearly we do. 

Not sure why the flames, but we have scored 11, one of the top scorers in the league.

[1bristolcity]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We.

Have.

Threat.

We

Have 

Goals 

[Davefevs]

24 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

Not sure why the flames, but we have scored 11, one of the top scorers in the league.

Doesn’t flames emoji mean “you’re on fire”, as in I thought you posted a really good post.  I was complimenting you on the simplicity of your post in hitting the mark.

[1bristolcity]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Doesn’t flames emoji mean “you’re on fire”, as in I thought you posted a really good post.  I was complimenting you on the simplicity of your post in hitting the mark.

Sorry Dave I am entering new territory here, I assumed I was to be flamed as in the Biblical sense, Bob are you seeing this!!!

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

Sorry Dave I am entering new territory here, I assumed I was to be flamed as in the Biblical sense, Bob are you seeing this!!!

Maybe I’ve got it wrong???  Hope not....might’ve pissed off a few people if so.

[INCRED]

5 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

...have we had more possession than the opposition (Brum A); what do we read into that? 

Seems in stark contrast to last season when we bossed most games.

So, deliberate tactic or a sign we're struggling in possession? 

Looks like we are still relying on counter attacking teams 

Today there were at least 6 occasions when Bentley looked for a quick throw out to players to start counter attacks and led to good chances

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

...have we had more possession than the opposition (Brum A); what do we read into that? 

Seems in stark contrast to last season when we bossed most games.

So, deliberate tactic or a sign we're struggling in possession? 

Did we boss most games possession wise last season? I'd suggest perhaps not! Mixed bag. If it were earlier I'd pull up the stats for each game but it's late so perhaps Sunday proper!

However it's definitely less possession heavy this year.. Part gameplan, part personnel availability and part formation/tactical setup IMO.

[fgrsimon]

If I remember correctly Leicester had less possession in most of their games when they won the Prem

[TBW]

Possession is overrated.

Only FIFA players think possession means you deserve to win. 

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I thought Clayton was excellent , as was Ashley Fletcher with his movement - caused all sorts of headaches

Said somewhere else - I thought we needed an organiser to calm things down at times and get us reset

Someone like Pack , for instance ?

[Andy082005]

16 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

...have we had more possession than the opposition (Brum A); what do we read into that? 

Seems in stark contrast to last season when we bossed most games.

So, deliberate tactic or a sign we're struggling in possession? 

I felt last season we had so much pointless possession. We would just knock the ball about and at times would never look like going forward at all. Far to pedestrian for my liking 

I feel we are playing a lot more direct this season. There was a couple of times yesterday where we were under the cosh and within a few seconds we had broke and we were in their box.

I was really impressed with us yesterday. It's just such a huge shame we are carrying the injuries we are as I think this team will concede to many goals to maintain a top 6. That's not a criticism though....Taylor-Moore for example is doing excellently. I just feel he has been thrown in the deep end massively and the learning curve for him his huge 

[spudski]

From the stats over the past two seasons, it suggests we are a team that is strong on the counter attack.

Nicking possession, countering on the flanks, and creating scoring opportunities in the middle.

[exAtyeoMax]

12 hours ago, 1bristolcity said:

Sorry Dave I am entering new territory here, I assumed I was to be flamed as in the Biblical sense, Bob are you seeing this!!!

I always take the fire emoji to be positive.

[exAtyeoMax]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Someone like Pack , for instance ?

Perhaps Nagy would be that player? 

[mozo]

17 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

...have we had more possession than the opposition (Brum A); what do we read into that? 

Seems in stark contrast to last season when we bossed most games.

So, deliberate tactic or a sign we're struggling in possession? 

Shall I do what I always do and remind people what 'possession' means? 

Possession is the % of passes made in a game.

So City play fewer passes than the opposition. 

This could be that we pass the ball less across the back line, for example.

But I think it because we are more direct than other teams. By 'direct' I mean that we try to play the 'killer pass' at the earliest opportunity.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

I felt last season we had so much pointless possession. We would just knock the ball about and at times would never look like going forward at all. Far to pedestrian for my liking 

I feel we are playing a lot more direct this season. There was a couple of times yesterday where we were under the cosh and within a few seconds we had broke and we were in their box.

I was really impressed with us yesterday. It's just such a huge shame we are carrying the injuries we are as I think this team will concede to many goals to maintain a top 6. That's not a criticism though....Taylor-Moore for example is doing excellently. I just feel he has been thrown in the deep end massively and the learning curve for him his huge 

Agree, much better watch yesterday than about 20 home games last season!!!

Boro played their part too.  That helped make a very good spectacle and with so many chances I tended to watch the game rather than look too much analytically. 

Defensively, I think Moore has come in and improved, but he’s gonna have blips, but what else is LJ meant to do, so I agree.

When we are back to full strength, a back line with options of:

Hunt or Pereira 

Kalas, Baker, Moore, Williams, Wright

Dasilva (Rowe)

in front of Bentley or Mäenpää looks good, especially with Nagy in front of them in midfield too.

Lets get a couple of players back like Nagy and Kalas, and see where we are then.  September has only 3 games, so time to work on the training ground....as it is a new team.

[Robbored]

18 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Stats regarding possession can be misleading. You can have a lot of possession and create nothing. The opposition can have a lot of possession but never look dangerous. You can have less possession than the opposition but still create more chances etc. 

Exactly right.

Im not sure why some fans see possession stats as having any relevance. 

It’s quite possible to have 20% possession and win the game. 

[mozo]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree, much better watch yesterday than about 20 home games last season!!!

Boro played their part too.  That helped make a very good spectacle and with so many chances I tended to watch the game rather than look too much analytically. 

Defensively, I think Moore has come in and improved, but he’s gonna have blips, but what else is LJ meant to do, so I agree.

When we are back to full strength, a back line with options of:

Hunt or Pereira 

Kalas, Baker, Moore, Williams, Wright

Dasilva (Rowe)

in front of Bentley or Mäenpää looks good, especially with Nagy in front of them in midfield too.

Lets get a couple of players back like Nagy and Kalas, and see where we are then.  September has only 3 games, so time to work on the training ground....as it is a new team.

Astute comments comrade.

And if City fans are grumbling about the game being open, then so should Boro fans, because we cut them open countless times, especially on the break. 

[Major Isewater]

2 minutes ago, mozo said:

Astute comments comrade.

And if City fans are grumbling about the game being open, then so should Boro fans, because we cut them open countless times, especially on the break. 

As I previously wroted ‘ it was a great game for the neutral ‘ .

Exciting and tbf à draw was the right result.

[Prinny]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

Exactly right.

Im not sure why some fans see possession stats as having any relevance. 

It’s quite possible to have 20% possession and win the game. 

It's the hangover from the Barcelona and Spanish sides of Iniesta and Xavi. People have been mesmerised into thinking possession is key.

[spudski]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree, much better watch yesterday than about 20 home games last season!!!

Boro played their part too.  That helped make a very good spectacle and with so many chances I tended to watch the game rather than look too much analytically. 

Defensively, I think Moore has come in and improved, but he’s gonna have blips, but what else is LJ meant to do, so I agree.

When we are back to full strength, a back line with options of:

Hunt or Pereira 

Kalas, Baker, Moore, Williams, Wright

Dasilva (Rowe)

in front of Bentley or Mäenpää looks good, especially with Nagy in front of them in midfield too.

Lets get a couple of players back like Nagy and Kalas, and see where we are then.  September has only 3 games, so time to work on the training ground....as it is a new team.

It was an entertaining game to watch as a neutral Dave... offensively both teams were going for it.

However... tactically...when out of possession and defending it was often cringeworthy to see what positions some of our players were taking. Wayyyyyy too open. But I guess that's what makes it 'entertaining'...as it's the human error and imperfections that allow the chances to be created.

If Boro's chances had gone in, I wonder whether fans would still have been entertained?

Watching yesterday, reminded me a little of when we came up under SC and we were playing open attacking football, but getting wooped every week.

I think the International break has come at a great time. We need it.

As for a full fit team. I'd like to see...

______________Bentley_______________

_____Kalas_____Baker____Moore______

Pedro__________Nagy_________DaSilva

_____Brownhill________Messengo_____

______________Palmer_______________

______________Afobe________________

Or...

______________Bentley_____________

Pedro____Kalas______Baker____DaSilva

_______Nagy__________Messengo_____

___Brownhill______________Palmer____

_________Weimann__Afobe___________

[Robbored]

26 minutes ago, spudski said:

It was an entertaining game to watch as a neutral Dave... offensively both teams were going for it.

However... tactically...when out of possession and defending it was often cringeworthy to see what positions some of our players were taking. Wayyyyyy too open. But I guess that's what makes it 'entertaining'...as it's the human error and imperfections that allow the chances to be created.

If Boro's chances had gone in, I wonder whether fans would still have been entertained?

Watching yesterday, reminded me a little of when we came up under SC and we were playing open attacking football, but getting wooped every week.

I think the International break has come at a great time. We need it.

As for a full fit team. I'd like to see...

______________Bentley_______________

_____Kalas_____Baker____Moore______

Pedro__________Nagy_________DaSilva

_____Brownhill________Messengo_____

______________Palmer_______________

______________Afobe________________

Or...

______________Bentley_____________

Pedro____Kalas______Baker____DaSilva

_______Nagy__________Messengo_____

___Brownhill______________Palmer____

_________Weimann__Afobe___________

You wouldn’t have Rowe starting in either team?

Ive certainly been impressed with what I’ve seen of him so far.

With a fully fit squad LJ will have an abundance of talent - it’ll probably give him a headache.

[pongo88]

19 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

Boro had a lot of possession today but for long periods much of it was just along their back 4.............

Just like City did when SoD was manager. Endless sideways passes that achieved nothing. Happy days (or not)

[spudski]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You wouldn’t have Rowe starting in either team?

Ive certainly been impressed with what I’ve seen of him so far.

With a fully fit squad LJ will have an abundance of talent - it’ll probably give him a headache.

Rowe has been fantastic...however I think DaSilva has a better all round ability.

From what I've seen...Messengo, Nagy, DaSilva and Palmer...once dialled in together, could prove very potent in moving the ball around well and quickly. Others could feed off those four nicely.

Tbh... there's an argument to play Rowe at LB and DaSilva in front of him. Both rotating duties down the left.

Like you say we have an abundance of quality options when all fit.

 

 

[Charlie BCFC]

20 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

...have we had more possession than the opposition (Brum A); what do we read into that? 

Seems in stark contrast to last season when we bossed most games.

So, deliberate tactic or a sign we're struggling in possession? 

The fact that Nagy isn’t there. He played most of the game against Brum and then in the 45 we had him on for against QPR we had more possession 

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Flint says No said:

The fact that Nagy isn’t there. He played most of the game against Brum and then in the 45 we had him on for against QPR we had more possession 

I think that possession stats are pretty meaningless.

I as posted just now any team can win a game with a low percentage of possession.

Its what a team does when in possession that really matters.

[spudski]

22 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I think that possession stats are pretty meaningless.

I as posted just now any team can win a game with a low percentage of possession.

Its what a team does when in possession that really matters.

Beg to differ Robbo.

When in possession you are less tired than chasing. Sometimes the aim off possession is to move the ball around, tire the opposition out, keep the ball deep and let the opposition come to you.

This then creates space behind which you can then exploit.

We aim to do this when in possession.

When out of possession, we press when their are triggers. I've noticed we often press higher in the first half of games with energy. looking to steal the ball or intercept higher up.

As teams are tiring...we sit deeper. Drawing the opposition into our defensive third, then counter-attack when we steal the ball and launch into an attack at speed.

Essentially, the tactic involves dropping deep, allowing the opposition to have the ball and come forward with it, committing players forward and leaving gaps in behind as they go. The aim is to take the ball off the opposition, exploiting the space left to attack and score.

We use both possession and counter attack in different parts of the game.

[mozo]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

It was an entertaining game to watch as a neutral Dave... offensively both teams were going for it.

However... tactically...when out of possession and defending it was often cringeworthy to see what positions some of our players were taking. Wayyyyyy too open. But I guess that's what makes it 'entertaining'...as it's the human error and imperfections that allow the chances to be created.

If Boro's chances had gone in, I wonder whether fans would still have been entertained?

Watching yesterday, reminded me a little of when we came up under SC and we were playing open attacking football, but getting wooped every week.

I think the International break has come at a great time. We need it.

As for a full fit team. I'd like to see...

______________Bentley_______________

_____Kalas_____Baker____Moore______

Pedro__________Nagy_________DaSilva

_____Brownhill________Messengo_____

______________Palmer_______________

______________Afobe________________

Or...

______________Bentley_____________

Pedro____Kalas______Baker____DaSilva

_______Nagy__________Messengo_____

___Brownhill______________Palmer____

_________Weimann__Afobe___________

Do you agree that the same analysis/criticism applies to Boro too? Both sides were wide open. It was that kind of game.

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Beg to differ Robbo.

When in possession you are less tired than chasing. Sometimes the aim off possession is to move the ball around, tire the opposition out, keep the ball deep and let the opposition come to you.

This then creates space behind which you can then exploit.

We aim to do this when in possession.

When out of possession, we press when their are triggers. I've noticed we often press higher in the first half of games with energy. looking to steal the ball or intercept higher up.

As teams are tiring...we sit deeper. Drawing the opposition into our defensive third, then counter-attack when we steal the ball and launch into an attack at speed.

Essentially, the tactic involves dropping deep, allowing the opposition to have the ball and come forward with it, committing players forward and leaving gaps in behind as they go. The aim is to take the ball off the opposition, exploiting the space left to attack and score.

We use both possession and counter attack in different parts of the game.

Be careful not to conflate possession stats (passes) with possession. They don't always correlate, e.g. tippy tappy one touch creates extra passes but not necessarily meaningful time on the ball, or control of the match.

 

I don't have any issue with your assessment of the line up, by the way. It's a reasonable view to take, I'm just not convinced that Johnson should have opted for something else given the circumstances. 

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Beg to differ Robbo.

When in possession you are less tired than chasing. Sometimes the aim off possession is to move the ball around, tire the opposition out, keep the ball deep and let the opposition come to you.

This then creates space behind which you can then exploit.

We aim to do this when in possession.

When out of possession, we press when their are triggers. I've noticed we often press higher in the first half of games with energy. looking to steal the ball or intercept higher up.

As teams are tiring...we sit deeper. Drawing the opposition into our defensive third, then counter-attack when we steal the ball and launch into an attack at speed.

Essentially, the tactic involves dropping deep, allowing the opposition to have the ball and come forward with it, committing players forward and leaving gaps in behind as they go. The aim is to take the ball off the opposition, exploiting the space left to attack and score.

We use both possession and counter attack in different parts of the game.

You’re using strategy and game management as a stat Spudski.

Every manager knows that if his team keep the ball they'll eventually knacker the opposition - it’s common sense. That said we’ve all seen games where a team has had the lions share of possession but loses the game and that’s why imv that possession stats are largely meaningless or at best misguided. 

[1bristolcity]

17 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Maybe I’ve got it wrong???  Hope not....might’ve pissed off a few people if so.

I looked it up, it is a 'cool' thing, or you were 'on fire'  sooooo right, and very sexy...steady on mate. xx

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

I looked it up, it is a 'cool' thing, or you were 'on fire'  sooooo right, and very sexy...steady on mate. xx

bit like Freeman used to be, or whoever it is sung about now…

(is this emoji going to be updated by the way?) I'm quite happy with it as it is but just wondered

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Do you agree that the same analysis/criticism applies to Boro too? Both sides were wide open. It was that kind of game.

Be careful not to conflate possession stats (passes) with possession. They don't always correlate, e.g. tippy tappy one touch creates extra passes but not necessarily meaningful time on the ball, or control of the match.

 

I don't have any issue with your assessment of the line up, by the way. It's a reasonable view to take, I'm just not convinced that Johnson should have opted for something else given the circumstances. 

I like this a lot

[Galway Red]

It was interesting watching us play at home on Sky as I'm used to being at AG, my main observation was how often we hoofed it up to Afobe (a massive improvement on Fam) Boro were more intent on playing their way up the pitch so it's hardly surprising they had more possession. I'll be flying back for the Swansea game and hopefully it will be a better result than my last visit against dirty Leeds

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

I think that possession stats are pretty meaningless.

I as posted just now any team can win a game with a low percentage of possession.

Its what a team does when in possession that really matters.

Can depend on shape, formation and mindset.

I agree, possession isn't necessarily decisive. A counterattacking or park the bus and hit when you can approach is not so incompatible with this, with eschewing the ball.

An open game though, an open shape can leave a side chasing the game- and the ball. As @spudski did say.

Eventually that high energy, octane approach of chasing without necessarily controlling the ball and midfield will catch up when up against a central 3! You need to really capitalise in that first half, 2 goal, 3 goal lead something like that.

Now if it's a case of accepting a side has little ox the ball and are happy to absorb and counter then this conserves physical energy but still can take a mental strain- makes more sense though. The advantage of holding the ball a bit more is 'resting in possession'.

[spudski]

3 hours ago, mozo said:

Do you agree that the same analysis/criticism applies to Boro too? Both sides were wide open. It was that kind of game.

Be careful not to conflate possession stats (passes) with possession. They don't always correlate, e.g. tippy tappy one touch creates extra passes but not necessarily meaningful time on the ball, or control of the match.

 

I don't have any issue with your assessment of the line up, by the way. It's a reasonable view to take, I'm just not convinced that Johnson should have opted for something else given the circumstances. 

I agree totally...and that's the angle I always come from. You are correct it doesn't give a true picture. Hence Jen's Hegelers project, trying to show more conclusive stats.

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Can depend on shape, formation and mindset.

I agree, possession isn't necessarily decisive. A counterattacking or park the bus and hit when you can approach is not so incompatible with this, with eschewing the ball.

An open game though, an open shape can leave a side chasing the game- and the ball. As @spudski did say.

Eventually that high energy, octane approach of chasing without necessarily controlling the ball and midfield will catch up when up against a central 3! You need to really capitalise in that first half, 2 goal, 3 goal lead something like that.

Now if it's a case of accepting a side has little ox the ball and are happy to absorb and counter then this conserves physical energy but still can take a mental strain- makes more sense though. The advantage of holding the ball a bit more is 'resting in possession'.

It was something Pack and Webster were good at. There are posts here saying some of City passing last seasons was pointless, no pass is pointless, they all have a point, sometimes its simply attempting to move players who then do not move and hold. but often as you point out its to rest in possession and reset it. 

Doing very little with possession, just moving it can have quite lot of meaning. Its a methodology used by Man City where they hold the ball in what is termed the safe possession zone (first third) and they are intent to sit on it. Peel back the stats and its Man City who pointlessly go backwards with possession more than any team in the EPL. They rest, reset and attack rather well ...

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

It was something Pack and Webster were good at. There are posts here saying some of City passing last seasons was pointless, no pass is pointless, they all have a point, sometimes its simply attempting to move players who then do not move and hold. but often as you point out its to rest in possession and reset it. 

Doing very little with possession, just moving it can have quite lot of meaning. Its a methodology used by Man City where they hold the ball in what is termed the safe possession zone (first third) and they are intent to sit on it. Peel back the stats and its Man City who pointlessly go backwards with possession more than any team in the EPL. They rest, reset and attack rather well ...

That’s all well and good when you’re Man City, because you are right they are resetting.  But if we go back to SOD it was pass, pass, maybe go forward, then go back, sideways, sideways again, then knock back to keeper to hoof it for a contested ball.  Possession is certain more pointless in that approach than Man City.  It’s almost pointless using Man City as a reference point!