Waconda Posted March 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, GrahamC said: If Steve Walsh was coming he’d have been here by now. You may be wrong though. But my point is if not him then someone like him, NP states often he doesn't deal with agents and therefore it follows he can't lead on transfer dealings and needs help (lots of it). This position is the most important appointment of the next 2 years I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) I'm still not convinced by the no-loan policy it seems NP has? Our best league finish we had some first team loanees, was it Kalas and Dasilva? Those two were fantastic that season. Without those two I'm not convinced we would've finished so high. There is just some calibre of players we will never reach without using the loan system. Can't deny the loan system has been somewhat good to us over the years it feels like. Edited March 9, 2022 by Sturny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercidered Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 10 minutes ago, VT05763 said: Need someone in like Steve Walsh badly, relying on the "old boys network" leads to the signing of deadwood, mostly. Our recruitment has been so bad, I would take Louis Walsh as things stand! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 minute ago, VT05763 said: You may be wrong though. But my point is if not him then someone like him, NP states often he doesn't deal with agents and therefore it follows he can't lead on transfer dealings and needs help (lots of it). This position is the most important appointment of the next 2 years I would think. Of course I could be, but Pearson has been here over a year now, Dave Rennie joined him last summer & Curtis Fleming early this season, so my hunch is that if we were seriously trying to bring Walsh here, then it would have happened by now. I agree with your other point but have no idea if it is the owner, the chairman, Gould or Pearson who seems reluctant to act, it could be a combination of those people, too. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 22 minutes ago, VT05763 said: It is actually quite possible that a few things fall our way in the Summer and we end up bringing in £50 million in fees, sell ons and cut costs. Fingers crossed. I think you are right and I’d imagine the bean counters have told the board as much and they have everything crossed we can bring in £50 mill or there abouts this summer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 42 minutes ago, Dredd said: Surely if we want to rebuild then we need to sell two. One to give us a buffer in FFP figures, and one to provide some spending money? Might depend on some or all of ) The size of the hole to be filled b) How much we would get for one- £15-20m would give us breathing room and enable a bit to spend c) Webster, Kelly, Brownhill sell on fee potential d) How much we want to 'save' this year if we get a windfall and go for in 2023/24 assuming we are still at this level when the wage bill etc really will start to clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 Just read the article- good analysis, feels like tough choices might need to be made this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Louie louie Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 Bournemouth, burnley, brighton, dont need to sale. We should remember this, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted March 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said: Bournemouth, burnley, brighton, dont need to sale. We should remember this, Nope but they might and a player wanting to move may force their hand. But yes not a given by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 Does anyone know what the state of our scouting network is at present and does all off it come under FFP spending as well. We need to come to terms now with the fact that we won’t be able to complete due to our FFP but our general turnover with other champ teams. Until we become a mid 30k sized club we can’t compete for top level players so we need to build the dogs dodars scouting network. We’ve been attracting higher level players over other champ teams paying silly wages. Now we are in the poop and ok we aren’t going down this year but are going to be with the favourites for relegation next year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 19 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said: Bournemouth, burnley, brighton, dont need to sale. We should remember this, If Burnley get relegated & there is Prem interest in Brownhill, then all the best to them in trying to get him to stay. FWIW I think a strategy of expecting sell on clauses is flawed, far better that they are a happy bonus. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Louie louie Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 Bournemouth got kelly to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Show Me The Money! said: Does anyone know what the state of our scouting network is at present and does all off it come under FFP spending as well. We need to come to terms now with the fact that we won’t be able to complete due to our FFP but our general turnover with other champ teams. Until we become a mid 30k sized club we can’t compete for top level players so we need to build the dogs dodars scouting network. We’ve been attracting higher level players over other champ teams paying silly wages. Now we are in the poop and ok we aren’t going down this year but are going to be with the favourites for relegation next year Pretty sure scouting costs come under P&S/FFP- maybe not youth but in general it does. 11 minutes ago, GrahamC said: FWIW I think a strategy of expecting sell on clauses is flawed, far better that they are a happy bonus. Very much this! It's not a great strategy- it could resolve our issues if it crystalises but it, and you could say the same about transfer profits to offset losses and a higher wage bill is also a questionable choice. Brownhill, Burnley probably financially could afford to keep but how it played out in reality...? Oh yeah, the sell on clause thing- Birmingham, the other BCFC fell foul of that very scenario in 2018...they had overspent to 2018 but forecast that Butland would go for a big money move after Stoke went down and Gray for a moderate move in summer 2018- never materialised, and the rest spoke for itself. I assume and hope that we are going to be more prudent than to rely on sell on clauses this summer if it comes to it. Edited March 9, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy1968 Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 19 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said: Bournemouth, burnley, brighton, dont need to sale. We should remember this, I'd think there are lots of triggers that result in the sale of players. For example - player nearing contract term and not going to re-sign, a club offers above market value for your player, player is blocking what you deem to be better prospects, change in playing philosiphy (player no longer a good fit), fall out with player, you've arranged a good deal to sign a player in the same position ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dastardly and Muttley Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 25 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said: Bournemouth, burnley, brighton, dont need to sale. We should remember this, What happened to Chris Wood or Ben White? If a bigger club wants any of those clubs’ players, they’d be gone. Unless we hit the heights of a Premier League winning side, we’ll be a selling club. Every one is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 20 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said: Bournemouth, burnley, brighton, dont need to sale. We should remember this, If Bournemouth don't go up........and Burnley come down...that may change? Brighton also sold White ,so a big bid may tempt them? I appreciate it is conjecture, but neither you or I have any idea of the state of their respective finances, also the type of contract each of those players have signed? So the statement "Burnley, Bournemouth and Brighton don't need to sale" (Sell?) means nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Louie louie Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 Just look how many ifs, and it they go downs etc. Look at the nicky marnard transfer. Crewe thought they were in for 20 pc of any profit. 6 million was cited. Didnt quite work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Louie louie Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 If bournemouth needed to sale, would have been over the last two years. I cant see that one on the menu this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted March 9, 2022 Admin Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 hour ago, VT05763 said: An article from our local paper that is a very well balanced piece but yet still "triggers" you, very strange. Certainly doesn't "trigger" me, as I post a variety of different opinions and topics, unlike others that are tunnel visioned with their singular posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 hour ago, GrahamC said: If Steve Walsh was coming he’d have been here by now. Plus, Pearson said in his pre-Birmingham presser we wouldn't be making a new appointment in the summer, just tweaking the existing structure. Sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 hour ago, GrahamC said: Of course I could be, but Pearson has been here over a year now, Dave Rennie joined him last summer & Curtis Fleming early this season, so my hunch is that if we were seriously trying to bring Walsh here, then it would have happened by now. I agree with your other point but have no idea if it is the owner, the chairman, Gould or Pearson who seems reluctant to act, it could be a combination of those people, too. We have an operating model that doesn’t require the manager to deal with the contractual / financial bits of the process, i.e. the bit of the negotiation with the Agent. Those aren’t the skillset of a most football managers to be fair, and much more in the domain of the CEO (or HoR if we had one / needed one). For info, the Recruitment Team lead the recruitment process, but there are many “stakeholders” in that process, e.g. Scouts, Manager, CEO, CFO. Pearson has said he’s worked under various different models in his time, and that he’s adaptable. As it stands the likes of Gould and Gilhespy are the people facing off to agents. He has no need to. His current role is to have a relationship with the player, if required, e.g. speak to the player about why he wants him, how he fits in, etc. We also heard recently that even the player (Massengo’s contract in this case) isn’t always involved, i.e. it’s his agent and the club talking not player and manager. What we do have is a model that allows Pearson to have as much input into the process as he needs to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numbeast Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 Sell on clauses are like doing a Euromillions lucky dip on a £100,000,000 roll over, you don't expect it to materialise but you hope it does come in come in. Our plans should be based on what we can control like how much we would demand for Scott or Semenyo or, given his contract situation, how much we can get for Massengo. As a club we are, at the moment, a financial mess. Selling off our prized assets and trimming off the dead wood on the wage budget looks to be the only options to restore us to an acceptable financial level. No one likes to see their best players sold and especially so just to balance the books that have been mismanaged or to overcome the effects of the pandemic but this is the real world and as it stands that is what will be required. Let's hope we can uncover some gems like those we have to sell. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Louie louie Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 I dont think hans fee will touch the sides. Again, if he decides to run his contract down, we get zero. If we get 6 million its a result. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveF Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 6 hours ago, Sturny said: I'm still not convinced by the no-loan policy it seems NP has? Our best league finish we had some first team loanees, was it Kalas and Dasilva? Those two were fantastic that season. Without those two I'm not convinced we would've finished so high. There is just some calibre of players we will never reach without using the loan system. Can't deny the loan system has been somewhat good to us over the years it feels like. I don't think Pearson has a no loan policy, it just has to be a suitable deal that improves the team at the right price. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 4 hours ago, Davefevs said: We have an operating model that doesn’t require the manager to deal with the contractual / financial bits of the process, i.e. the bit of the negotiation with the Agent. Those aren’t the skillset of a most football managers to be fair, and much more in the domain of the CEO (or HoR if we had one / needed one). But does Gould have this skillset, I wonder - compared to, say, a Steve Walsh or an Ian Pearce who are both proper "football men" with insider knowledge and a "been there, done that" t-shirt to match? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 13 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: But does Gould have this skillset, I wonder - compared to, say, a Steve Walsh or an Ian Pearce who are both proper "football men" with insider knowledge and a "been there, done that" t-shirt to match? We will find out 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 10 minutes ago, Davefevs said: We will find out Yep! We've a lot to lose if it turns out he hasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 4 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said: I dont think hans fee will touch the sides. Again, if he decides to run his contract down, we get zero. If we get 6 million its a result. People keep saying this, but it is utter bollocks. Han is 20, so if we offer him a new deal then we would be entitled to compensation for him even if he turned it down, because he’s under 24. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpexile Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: We will find out I think that with his history the odds are in our favour but not a certainty just as everything else in life (except the usual Death & Taxes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted March 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 8 hours ago, phantom said: Certainly doesn't "trigger" me, as I post a variety of different opinions and topics, unlike others that are tunnel visioned with their singular posts Like this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.