Robbie Cundy

[Beni71]

On 20/03/2022 at 09:02, Pickle Rick said:

Surprised he’s not had a thread already?!

I’ve not seen him over 90 minutes before and was very impressed with him yesterday.

Against a team with some good individual players, he didn’t look out of his depth and made some good interceptions, along with being strong in the air.

His diagonal ball across to Atkinson for Weimann’s goal was exceptional too.

I hope he can keep this up and he seemed to work very well with Klosse, who has proven to be a good signing.

Thought he was steady and improvement on his Barnsley performance. Decent in the air but limited with his passing, that said he’s developing into championship football and that will take time.

A couple of points

1. Based on what I’ve seen so far Rob is no Webster or Baker. So NP needs to be clear on Rob’s role in defence and also does he help us move forward (top 10 finish) as a club or are we confident we can develop him to become a better player?

2. The other key point is we are shopping in Poundland and not Waitrose so the financial side will tick the boxes.

I hope he succeeds but at this point jury is out for me. Hopefully he takes the opportunity and does well over the next 7 games and stays injury free.

 

 

[GrahamC]

21 hours ago, firstdivision said:

How do you get players out who are on good contracts if they won’t get anything better elsewhere?

That is a very good question & in truth it partly depends on the player.

Taylor Moore for instance has been willing to go out on loan across the UK in order to play on numerous occasions already & so as he has apparently been told that he has no future here, if we were to get any interest then it could be as relatively simple as us subsidising his wages for the last year of the deal. He certainly shows no signs of being awkward.

Others of course might dig their heels in & sit in the stand for a year.

All guesswork but in the case of Vyner, who will be 25 in May, I think he will want to do the same as Moore to get his career back on track, so if there is interest in him we can come to a compromise on wages, meaning a saving in our anticipated expenditure.

Palmer & Wells of course could prove harder to shift as they will be on far higher money & we would also be hoping to recoup some of the initial transfer outlay, too.

[exAtyeoMax]

I thought he did alright. Seemed to be a calming influence and tried to organise at the back. 

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

That is a very good question & in truth it partly depends on the player.

Taylor Moore for instance has been willing to go out on loan across the UK in order to play on numerous occasions already & so as he has apparently been told that he has no future here, if we were to get any interest then it could be as relatively simple as us subsidising his wages for the last year of the deal. He certainly shows no signs of being awkward.

Others of course might dig their heels in & sit in the stand for a year.

All guesswork but in the case of Vyner, who will be 25 in May, I think he will want to do the same as Moore to get his career back on track, so if there is interest in him we can come to a compromise on wages, meaning a saving in our anticipated expenditure.

Palmer & Wells of course could prove harder to shift as they will be on far higher money & we would also be hoping to recoup some of the initial transfer outlay, too.

I think the thing with Vyner as well is that, although by no means will he be a pauper, he’s not at Palmer “set up for life” stage from what he’ll have been earning so far (Academy, broadly squad player). If, as we all think, he’s not in the plans here then he has no standout qualities which mean he’s marketable after a season spent in the reserves. 
 

So, unless he moves on in the summer he’s probably at a point where he’s not earnt enough to never work again, and at contract expiry isn’t looking at a raft of great options. I see him moving on to protect his career rather than anything else, as come next summer, a 26 year old who will (likely) have barely played for a year and has got passable but not great reviews in any one of three positions he’s played isn’t going to be beating off suitors with shitty stick.

Again, no qualms over Zak’s work ethic or desire. He just isn’t at the level. No shame there.

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think the thing with Vyner as well is that, although by no means will he be a pauper, he’s not at Palmer “set up for life” stage from what he’ll have been earning so far (Academy, broadly squad player). If, as we all think, he’s not in the plans here then he has no standout qualities which mean he’s marketable after a season spent in the reserves. 
 

So, unless he moves on in the summer he’s probably at a point where he’s not earnt enough to never work again, and at contract expiry isn’t looking at a raft of great options. I see him moving on to protect his career rather than anything else, as come next summer, a 26 year old who will (likely) have barely played for a year and has got passable but not great reviews in any one of three positions he’s played isn’t going to be beating off suitors with shitty stick.

Again, no qualms over Zak’s work ethic or desire. He just isn’t at the level. No shame there.

Totally agree, the other thing is he’s had 4 decent loan spells, at Accrington, Argyle, Rotherham & Aberdeen so will have created a favourable impression with the managers there.

His last one was under McInnes, who is now at Kilmarnock, looking very likely to be back in the SPL next season, so there or Plymouth (where Downing will know all about him) are possible, realistic destinations, I think.

[Simon bristol]

19 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Wells maybe possible to move on if to USA as suggested, as a forward there are usually suitors and he has not done himself any harm with his professionalism , his residual value is now in the sensible zone, and he will probably be wanting to play rather play than look for the final dollar (assuming his wages stateside would still be decent). If he can play and score a few more in the last 7 games, well you can maybe see a way out for club and player. Just reading his comments, I cannot see he wants another year at his age sat on the bench. 

Palmer , well that is a whole different kettle of fish ! Depends if he just wants the money, or wants to try and kickstart a forever faltering career. Looks more like he will go the JET road to me, and have a downward cycle to his career plus it will cost us to move on. as we are unlikely to get a fee/his wages off without a nosebleed. 

Vyner/Moore agree, both will want a move and will do all that is needed to get playing at the right level and regular game time. Bakinson should be sorted too, it seems he is playing each week. These three will not change much with FFP but it is still 3 wages. out. Every little helps. 

Cannot see COD staying, Simpson gone, KIng to retire (maybe coach/senior within under23-s?) , Baker maybe to retire on health grounds.

Could be 9 plus out (the plus being the sale of one of  HNM/AS/ASc, possibly Kalas/JD unless deals renewed) compared to starting squad this season. 

 

Agree with all that, there are a lot of good championship players out of contract this summer, if we could bring in 2/3 of the better ones that would actually make a better starting side, we might see some progress?! 

[The Bard]

4 hours ago, GrahamC said:

That is a very good question & in truth it partly depends on the player.

Taylor Moore for instance has been willing to go out on loan across the UK in order to play on numerous occasions already & so as he has apparently been told that he has no future here, if we were to get any interest then it could be as relatively simple as us subsidising his wages for the last year of the deal. He certainly shows no signs of being awkward.

Others of course might dig their heels in & sit in the stand for a year.

All guesswork but in the case of Vyner, who will be 25 in May, I think he will want to do the same as Moore to get his career back on track, so if there is interest in him we can come to a compromise on wages, meaning a saving in our anticipated expenditure.

Palmer & Wells of course could prove harder to shift as they will be on far higher money & we would also be hoping to recoup some of the initial transfer outlay, too.

I'd be amazed if we get a fee for either Wells or Palmer. 

Say, Birmingham offer us £500k for Wells.  They aren't going to match his £27k a week wages. If they offer him £15k per week for 2 years, we will still have to cover £12k per week for a year  equivalent £600k.

Most likely we have some kind of arrangement whereby we forego a fee, Wells foregoes some wages and Birmingham pay more in wages for the first year. 

[Simon bristol]

13 minutes ago, The Bard said:

I'd be amazed if we get a fee for either Wells or Palmer. 

Say, Birmingham offer us £500k for Wells.  They aren't going to match his £27k a week wages. If they offer him £15k per week for 2 years, we will still have to cover £12k per week for a year  equivalent £600k.

Most likely we have some kind of arrangement whereby we forego a fee, Wells foregoes some wages and Birmingham pay more in wages for the first year. 

Yes definitely, it will be pretty galling to SL if/ when that happens,, knowing how much money was spent on those 2 in particular, plus their wages, just to give them away to get them off the books.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, The Bard said:

I'd be amazed if we get a fee for either Wells or Palmer. 

Say, Birmingham offer us £500k for Wells.  They aren't going to match his £27k a week wages. If they offer him £15k per week for 2 years, we will still have to cover £12k per week for a year  equivalent £600k.

Most likely we have some kind of arrangement whereby we forego a fee, Wells foregoes some wages and Birmingham pay more in wages for the first year. 

It’s a really interesting one, where is the sweet spot for player, city and other club?  All three parties aren’t gonna be winners, compromise has to be on at least one party.

(based on alleged figures)

If Wells stays next season he’s gonna cost us £0.800m amortisation and £1.400m wages, £2.200m total.

If Palmer stays, it’s £0.875m and £1.000m wages, £1.875m total.

Thats £4.075m for both.  I’m pretty sure we aren’t gonna get rid of all of that, but it’s about getting rid of as much of it as possible.

[The Bard]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

It’s a really interesting one, where is the sweet spot for player, city and other club?  All three parties aren’t gonna be winners, compromise has to be on at least one party.

(based on alleged figures)

If Wells stays next season he’s gonna cost us £0.800m amortisation and £1.400m wages, £2.200m total.

If Palmer stays, it’s £0.875m and £1.000m wages, £1.875m total.

Thats £4.075m for both.  I’m pretty sure we aren’t gonna get rid of all of that, but it’s about getting rid of as much of it as possible.

Yep. 

 I get the impression Pearson would prefer to get rid of Wells but knows he is of value as a player to us so will keep him if we can't get rid on the right terms.  Palmer appears to have been booted off the bus ages ago and we're looking to get whatever we can to rid ourselves of him. 

As you indicate getting the best deal for us means minimising what the last year of their deals will cost.

[1960maaan]

28 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Much depends on the player too, it is not a given they will insist on meeting contract obligations if they risk another year not playing. Wells in particular 32 in the summer. Footballers in the main also want to play football. No one can tell from the outside and it will for sure be a bit of give and take from the player and the 2 clubs. Palmer is more difficult as he has not played or ever performed with and consistency, so would be seen as a gamble by any future club . There we risk a massive financial bath . But again , his career will be totally lost at 26 if he stays and does not play a second year in a row. Going to take a fair bit of negotiating that is for sure. Don't rule out player taking a marginal payment (compared to contract total) to be released from a.contract , if they feel they can get a better salary deal as a free transfer offer. There are many permutations, and a lot is of course down to the player who is under contract and what they really want as a footballer. Mr Gould will be working overtime with their agents that is for sure to try an minimise the impact.. Both very expensive projects with the final cost only to discover this summer . 

With Wells & Palmer, they may be willing to forgo some wages to get a longer term contract somewhere. They're worth Millions as it is, and they will realise what's happening in the current market. With luck they may be offered 3 years somewhere. I imagine they will want to play, you're a long time retired.

 

[Mattredrobin]

1st time i had seen cundy live for city( seen him play for bath a few years ago, he was the stand out player in that game ) thought he looked really good would like to think he would be a good back up for next season, we will definetly be light there if vyner and moore leave as some are expecting.

[cidered abroad]

48 minutes ago, Mattredrobin said:

1st time i had seen cundy live for city( seen him play for bath a few years ago, he was the stand out player in that game ) thought he looked really good would like to think he would be a good back up for next season, we will definetly be light there if vyner and moore leave as some are expecting.

Why only a back up?

[Rocking Red Cyril]

On 20/03/2022 at 14:39, Davefevs said:

Are you referring to insurance for covid losses?  If so, there has been nothing listed in the accounts for either of the last reported years accounts (19/20 and 20/21).  I’d suggest we had no insurance, or nothing of the magnitude of Luton and Boro (£2.75m).

Ok let's get this 

Boro and Luton got (£2.75 m) each from insurance against something like covid happening.

Ok two points:

1.   that must of not been cheap 

2.   Surely that does not cover all their covid loses

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

59 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Ok let's get this 

Boro and Luton got (£2.75 m) each from insurance against something like covid happening.

Ok two points:

1.   that must of not been cheap 

2.   Surely that does not cover all their covid loses

 

 

 

1. No, but Wimbledon Tennis payed £1.5m p.a. for 15 years before they got a £174m payout for Covid.

https://www.insurancetimes.co.uk/news/wimbledon-set-for-coronavirus-windfall-in-huge-pay-out-from-pandemic-insurance/1433146.article

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-8947769/Wimbledon-line-174M-insurance-pay-amid-Covid-19-pandemic.html

On a pro-Rata basis that’s an annual premium of £23k for a £2.75m payout (or £345k over 15 years).  Not bad eh?

2. No, indeed, part mitigation, but better than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick!

[Rocking Red Cyril]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

1. No, but Wimbledon Tennis payed £1.5m p.a. for 15 years before they got a £174m payout for Covid.

https://www.insurancetimes.co.uk/news/wimbledon-set-for-coronavirus-windfall-in-huge-pay-out-from-pandemic-insurance/1433146.article

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-8947769/Wimbledon-line-174M-insurance-pay-amid-Covid-19-pandemic.html

On a pro-Rata basis that’s an annual premium of £23k for a £2.75m payout (or £345k over 15 years).  Not bad eh?

2. No, indeed, part mitigation, but better than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick!

Yeah pro's and con's I suppose either way.

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Rocking Red Cyril

[Mattredrobin]

2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Why only a back up?

I was basing that on we sign klose on a longer deal, I think that would mean klose and kalas being the 1st choice, obviously if we go as a back 3 then cundy would definitely slot in there.

[PHILINFRANCE]

2 hours ago, Mattredrobin said:

I was basing that on we sign klose on a longer deal, I think that would mean klose and kalas being the 1st choice, obviously if we go as a back 3 then cundy would definitely slot in there.

And where does Atkinson fit in?

Possibly my MoM on Saturday, and certainly seems to be improving after his injury.

[Offside]

Cundy played well on Saturday. A very mature display for a player who has been in so few Championship games. Whether he is going to be good enough consistently at this level remains to be seen, but Saturday was very promising. 

[Mattredrobin]

7 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

And where does Atkinson fit in?

Possibly my MoM on Saturday, and certainly seems to be improving after his 

Totally agree, but I think with Atkinson he's had a tough 1st season here he's still learning the league, as Pearson has said he's had quick progression through the leagues and needs time to adjust to it. No doubt he's been playing better recently not sure he's better than klose and kalas and I think we will sign another centre half in the summer especially if vyner and Moore do go. 

[Jerseybean]

Interesting article re Cundy: https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/robbie-cundy-bristol-city-family-6882473