Chris Wilder…..

[mozo]

7 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

What I find a bit ridiculous in all this is, if you rewind a few weeks to when we kept winning and everyone was convinced we were overnight promotion candidates, Pearson was the one saying “hang on, don’t carried away, we’ve got a lack of squad depth” yet three or four weeks later, everyone is suddenly shocked to discover we don’t have squad depth.

And that is the reality. We cannot afford all the players we need and, in the absence of Naismith and James, we just don’t have cover who can do the same role. And so it is no surprise that we struggle without them.

That is not to absolve Pearson of blame completely. Ultimately he has a very effective system when everyone is fit but it is his job to adapt when they are not. Today we did not make the changes to compensate for the missing players and tried to muddle through without them rather than get the best out the players we have. Without three natural central defenders, you can’t easily get away with a midfielder at full back, for example. 
 

But, with the budget we have, the only way for a team to succeed is to build for the long term. We cannot chuck out the manager and build from scratch every time we get a few defeats. That is something we - both literally and figuratively - simply cannot afford to do. 

You're absolutely right but is it the stark contrast in levels? 

It's not like we've just lost a little bit of our edge. Our performances fell off a cliff with most of the same players.

[Bristol Oil Services]

45 minutes ago, Taunton_BCFC said:

Go get him SL

For right full back?

[The Bard]

Just now, Simon bristol said:

Yes thats him!

i was just discussing it with my other half, weve basically been shite for the 40 years ive been going to games. I dont think it really matters who we bring in. If theres a book written of how to be shite, it would be based on us. At least with clubs like that lot up the road, theres no pretending they want to be successful, no multi million transfers, no huge stadium builds or training facility builds. We do that but are still piss poor, its like a running joke now

We're in the Championship which is our level.  That lot are in League 1 which is their level

We're not shite.  We're just not playing very well at the moment.  

[GTFABM]

I can honestly say from the start i didn’t want Pearson. But what i can say is all the behind the scenes stuff he has been exceptional! Had a few very bright games early in the season and was more than pleasantly surprised. He will not offer fast flowing attractive football on the budget given (no budget at all basically). Pointless getting rid because i can imagine we are paying him a very pretty penny to sort this shambles out. Stick with him let him steady the ship and avoid relegation for another season then look at the finances and re asses. Depressing as it is at times this is it for a while. Some good, some awful….

[Top Robin]

57 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Some belter texted RB demanding Pearson sacked and Wilder or Dyche appointed

 

Jesus Wept - we have a whole section of ‘fans’ who behave like spoilt 5 year olds - and we take the p out of the Sags !

We also have a section of fans who have some sort of obsessive man crush on NP and really can't accept him getting any criticism.

They need to accept that yes we all thought he was going to be our saviour but in reality he has been a disappointment and questions need to be asked.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Top Robin

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

What I find a bit ridiculous in all this is, if you rewind a few weeks to when we kept winning and everyone was convinced we were overnight promotion candidates, Pearson was the one saying “hang on, don’t carried away, we’ve got a lack of squad depth” yet three or four weeks later, everyone is suddenly shocked to discover we don’t have squad depth.

And that is the reality. We cannot afford all the players we need and, in the absence of Naismith and James, we just don’t have cover who can do the same role. And so it is no surprise that we struggle without them.

That is not to absolve Pearson of blame completely. Ultimately he has a very effective system when everyone is fit but it is his job to adapt when they are not. Today we did not make the changes to compensate for the missing players and tried to muddle through without them rather than get the best out the players we have. Without three natural central defenders, you can’t easily get away with a midfielder at full back, for example. 
 

But, with the budget we have, the only way for a team to succeed is to build for the long term. We cannot chuck out the manager and build from scratch every time we get a few defeats. That is something we - both literally and figuratively - simply cannot afford to do. 

Brilliant post.

Many of us have said similar…when everyone (almost everyone) is fit and available we good enough to play a competitive and evolving style of football.  I had a spat on twitter the other week when Nige made that depth comment…today was proof that Nige was right.  It’s a squad game over the course of a season, and ours isn’t strong enough overall.

Yep, Nige to take some blame too today, but as you say he wasn’t going overboard the other week either.

A time for calm heads….luckily our manager has one.

[Negan]

40 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Please provide us with a better alternative. He’s clearly a better option than what weve got

What makes him a better option? We see it time and time again where a manager has success with 1 club then fails everywhere else. There are the odd ones out like Warnock/Bruce but majority of the time the managers that have success elsewhere don’t find it again. We need to find our own Wilder/Hughton/Pearson. 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, mozo said:

You're absolutely right but is it the stark contrast in levels? 

It's not like we've just lost a little bit of our edge. Our performances fell off a cliff with most of the same players.

Some might look at what Matty James brings when fit.

[AshtonRobin21]

37 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Yes, beat me to it.

Some of our fans still don't grasp how dire our financial position is. Perhaps they'll get it when the next accounts come out. Probably not though.

I saw someone post earlier that this is now Nige's team, which baffles me. 

Of today's starting 11, Nige signed 3 of them (Sykes, Atkinson and King). Of the entire matchday squad, he signed/promoted 7 of them (Conway, Tanner, Klose and Kadji, being the other 4). 

During his entire tenure, he has only spent money on 2 players (Atkinson and Tanner). Plus Kane Wilson if we are counting the tribunal fee. 

But some supporters still believe that we could attract the likes of Wilder. 

You make a very good point about the accounts. Hopefully it will open the eyes of a few. 

[robin_unreliant]

A few weeks ago the main worry on here was Leicester taking Nige off us. Talk of getting rid now is as ridiculous as that was then. Get a grip folks. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by robin_unreliant
Spelling

[Boston Red]

17 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Yes thats him!

i was just discussing it with my other half, weve basically been shite for the 40 years ive been going to games. I dont think it really matters who we bring in. If theres a book written of how to be shite, it would be based on us. At least with clubs like that lot up the road, theres no pretending they want to be successful, no multi million transfers, no huge stadium builds or training facility builds. We do that but are still piss poor, its like a running joke now

True, but let us try and look on the bright side.

1. 3 trips to Wembley (First Football League trophy win)

2. 2 trips to the Millenium Stadium (Second Football League trophy win with a record 40,000 fans there. No other club has taken more to the Millenium, because we filled some of Carlisle's allocation)

3. 2 trips to the new Wembley, play off final and third Football League trophy win, still a record.

4. League Cup semis as a third tier side. Clough's Forest. who won two cups, finished 3rd, and got to the FA Cup semis that season, could only beat us with a last minute og equaliser at their place, Walsh hitting the post, extra time, and a very late winner. 

5. Fantastic promotion season of 1989/90 with two great wingers, and 34 goal hero Bob Taylor smashing in hat-tricks on the volley all over the place.

6. Knocking top division Chelsea 3-1 out of the FA Cup. First up on MOTD.

7. Going to Anfield and knocking Liverpool out of the FA Cup, who were 6th at the time. The Kop applaud the City players off.

8. Promotion again in 1997/8, with John Ward, Tinnion, Goater, Murray. Run of 12 wins and a draw in 13.

9. 100 goals plus under Danny Wilson in 2002/3. 11 straight wins the next season. 

10. Promotion again under Gary Johnson in 2006/7, pipping Forest.

11. Nearly making the Premier League 3 times in 2007/8. 1. We were top with ten games to go. 2. If we had beaten Stoke away in game 45, we would have gone up. 3. Play off final.

12. Cruised the 3rd tier double of league and cup under Cotterill in 2014/5. 100 goals and 100 points (almost).

13. Knocked Man U, Mourinho, Pogba, Ibrahimovic out of the league cup 2-1 with a wonder goal and a last minute winner. Second in league on Boxing Day.

14. Another League Cup semi. Guardiola's Man City are the best team in Europe, smashing 6 and 7 every week. We go to their place, go 1-0 up, and only lose to a last minute goal. Next day 7 Premier League call our manager and ask for advice on how to play Man City. In the second leg we are 2-2 with a minute to go, and only lose the tie 5-3 overall. 

15. Some great players to watch over the years. Walsh. Smith. Taylor. Morgan. Jacki. Cole. Barnard. Tinnion. Bell. Goater. Murray. Akinbiyi. Thorpe. Lita. Maynard etc etc etc.

There are a lot of football clubs that have never done all that.  

[robinforlife2]

3 minutes ago, Boston Red said:

True, but let us try and look on the bright side.

1. 3 trips to Wembley (First Football League trophy win)

2. 2 trips to the Millenium Stadium (Second Football League trophy win with a record 40,000 fans there. No other club has taken more to the Millenium, because we filled some of Carlisle's allocation)

3. 2 trips to the new Wembley, play off final and third Football League trophy win, still a record.

4. League Cup semis as a third tier side. Clough's Forest. who won two cups, finished 3rd, and got to the FA Cup semis that season, could only beat us with a last minute og equaliser at their place, Walsh hitting the post, extra time, and a very late winner. 

5. Fantastic promotion season of 1989/90 with two great wingers, and 34 goal hero Bob Taylor smashing in hat-tricks on the volley all over the place.

6. Knocking top division Chelsea 3-1 out of the FA Cup. First up on MOTD.

7. Going to Anfield and knocking Liverpool out of the FA Cup, who were 6th at the time. The Kop applaud the City players off.

8. Promotion again in 1997/8, with John Ward, Tinnion, Goater, Murray. Run of 12 wins and a draw in 13.

9. 100 goals plus under Danny Wilson in 2002/3. 11 straight wins the next season. 

10. Promotion again under Gary Johnson in 2006/7, pipping Forest.

11. Nearly making the Premier League 3 times in 2007/8. 1. We were top with ten games to go. 2. If we had beaten Stoke away in game 45, we would have gone up. 3. Play off final.

12. Cruised the 3rd tier double of league and cup under Cotterill in 2014/5. 100 goals and 100 points (almost).

13. Knocked Man U, Mourinho, Pogba, Ibrahimovic out of the league cup 2-1 with a wonder goal and a last minute winner. Second in league on Boxing Day.

14. Another League Cup semi. Guardiola's Man City are the best team in Europe, smashing 6 and 7 every week. We go to their place, go 1-0 up, and only lose to a last minute goal. Next day 7 Premier League call our manager and ask for advice on how to play Man City. In the second leg we are 2-2 with a minute to go, and only lose the tie 5-3 overall. 

15. Some great players to watch over the years. Walsh. Smith. Taylor. Morgan. Jacki. Cole. Barnard. Tinnion. Bell. Goater. Murray. Akinbiyi. Thorpe. Lita. Maynard etc etc etc.

There are a lot of football clubs that have never done all that.  

None of that has been achieved with Pearson at the helm ...... 4 of your points with a Johnson at the helm. Oh what I would give for a proper manager right now .....

[Sheltons Army]

15 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

None of that has been achieved with Pearson at the helm ...... 4 of your points with a Johnson at the helm. Oh what I would give for a proper manager right now ...

‘Proper Manager’

 

Danny Wilson ?

[robinforlife2]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

‘Proper Manager’

 

Danny Wilson ?

Nah, Curbs, he's bound to have a house in Bristol he can move into. 

[AppyDAZE]

And when he struggles, go sack him,SL.

[Fordy62]

33 minutes ago, Boston Red said:

True, but let us try and look on the bright side.

1. 3 trips to Wembley (First Football League trophy win)

2. 2 trips to the Millenium Stadium (Second Football League trophy win with a record 40,000 fans there. No other club has taken more to the Millenium, because we filled some of Carlisle's allocation)

3. 2 trips to the new Wembley, play off final and third Football League trophy win, still a record.

4. League Cup semis as a third tier side. Clough's Forest. who won two cups, finished 3rd, and got to the FA Cup semis that season, could only beat us with a last minute og equaliser at their place, Walsh hitting the post, extra time, and a very late winner. 

5. Fantastic promotion season of 1989/90 with two great wingers, and 34 goal hero Bob Taylor smashing in hat-tricks on the volley all over the place.

6. Knocking top division Chelsea 3-1 out of the FA Cup. First up on MOTD.

7. Going to Anfield and knocking Liverpool out of the FA Cup, who were 6th at the time. The Kop applaud the City players off.

8. Promotion again in 1997/8, with John Ward, Tinnion, Goater, Murray. Run of 12 wins and a draw in 13.

9. 100 goals plus under Danny Wilson in 2002/3. 11 straight wins the next season. 

10. Promotion again under Gary Johnson in 2006/7, pipping Forest.

11. Nearly making the Premier League 3 times in 2007/8. 1. We were top with ten games to go. 2. If we had beaten Stoke away in game 45, we would have gone up. 3. Play off final.

12. Cruised the 3rd tier double of league and cup under Cotterill in 2014/5. 100 goals and 100 points (almost).

13. Knocked Man U, Mourinho, Pogba, Ibrahimovic out of the league cup 2-1 with a wonder goal and a last minute winner. Second in league on Boxing Day.

14. Another League Cup semi. Guardiola's Man City are the best team in Europe, smashing 6 and 7 every week. We go to their place, go 1-0 up, and only lose to a last minute goal. Next day 7 Premier League call our manager and ask for advice on how to play Man City. In the second leg we are 2-2 with a minute to go, and only lose the tie 5-3 overall. 

15. Some great players to watch over the years. Walsh. Smith. Taylor. Morgan. Jacki. Cole. Barnard. Tinnion. Bell. Goater. Murray. Akinbiyi. Thorpe. Lita. Maynard etc etc etc.

There are a lot of football clubs that have never done all that.  

Jesus wept… I wonder who the source for that gem is?!

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

Jesus wept… I wonder who the source for that gem is?!

For all your sarcasm ,

I take it you have noticed how Pep has managed to improve things at the Eithiad since then 

 

As I understand it Dyche was still on the waiting list for advice before he lost his job and Klopp is currently on a direct line 24/7

[Numero Uno]

26 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

I'm not sure war and peace is needed 

We're by all accounts rubbish at the moment and playing players out of position. 

The good will Nige had is starting to disappear as the same old things reappear. 

Not got a strong opinion either way at the mo, could be doing better, not sure exactly what the issue is though 

The issues are we cannot defend properly in terms of concentration rather than know how and that needs money to address that we don't have, we have young players like Scott and Conway in our starting eleven who will have good games and bad games because at their age they can't put in eight 7-8/10 performances every ten games, we've got players like Massengo, Atkinson and Vyner who should really be coming into their own given 100-150 league games under their belt but generally it isn't happening (mind you Vyner is playing far better than Massengo and Atkinson to be fair to him) and we are then left with a group of senior players who we struggle to get out on the park in some cases, others who are fairly limited in ability for the most part and, worse, don't seem to have much about them, attitude wise. We are the epitome of "Southern Softies", some weeks we can look dynamite (which is a massive improvement on last season) but every team knows we can be knocked out of our stride fairly easily. If Birmingham, given the way the play, could cherry pick opposition it would be us every single week.

For all Naismith's faults, what I will say about him is that even after making personal mistakes he is still shouting at others and trying to get others to play which takes bravery and a solid level of attitude, confidence and knowledge of why you are out there. We clearly had none of that in our starting eleven today, no leadership or backbone whatsoever, and if I was Nige I would be livid with our senior players. Where I cannot have sympathy with Nige is the decision to continue with Bentley as Captain - he needs to concentrate on putting in performances worthy of keeping his place in the side for a start and he really doesn't need that distraction.

I'm on holiday for a week but it wouldn't surprise me to switch on my phone on Wednesday and find we've turned Preston over 2-0 but equally if we lost 3-0 that wouldn't shock me either. That's where we are.

Probably comes over as War and Peace but that's my two pennorth.......

[Simon bristol]

57 minutes ago, The Bard said:

We're in the Championship which is our level.  That lot are in League 1 which is their level

We're not shite.  We're just not playing very well at the moment.  

Championship was also the level of reading, cardiff, swansea, brentford, brighton, bournemouth, hull and dozens of others. For every liverpool or man u in the cups, there are hundreds of hulls at wembley, brighton in cardiff and birmingham city away. 
 

i like to see young lads come through, makes us all feel good, but the days of me being affected in any way by the players and managers and chief execs weve made rich coming in and being shite are long gone. , the only way it will change is if sheikh mansour fancies taking us over and bankrolling it so much that it’s impossible not to go up. 

[Sheltons Army]

9 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The issues are we cannot defend properly in terms of concentration rather than know how and that needs money to address that we don't have, we have young players like Scott and Conway in our starting eleven who will have good games and bad games because at their age they can't put in eight 7-8/10 performances every ten games, we've got players like Massengo, Atkinson and Vyner who should really be coming into their own given 100-150 league games under their belt but generally it isn't happening (mind you Vyner is playing far better than Massengo and Atkinson to be fair to him) and we are then left with a group of senior players who we struggle to get out on the park in some cases, others who are fairly limited in ability for the most part and, worse, don't seem to have much about them, attitude wise. We are the epitome of "Southern Softies", some weeks we can look dynamite (which is a massive improvement on last season) but every team knows we can be knocked out of our stride fairly easily. If Birmingham, given the way the play, could cherry pick opposition it would be us every single week.

For all Naismith's faults, what I will say about him is that even after making personal mistakes he is still shouting at others and trying to get others to play which takes bravery and a solid level of attitude, confidence and knowledge of why you are out there. We clearly had none of that in our starting eleven today, no leadership or backbone whatsoever, and if I was Nige I would be livid with our senior players. Where I cannot have sympathy with Nige is the decision to continue with Bentley as Captain - he needs to concentrate on putting in performances worthy of keeping his place in the side for a start and he really doesn't need that distraction.

I'm on holiday for a week but it wouldn't surprise me to switch on my phone on Wednesday and find we've turned Preston over 2-0 but equally if we lost 3-0 that wouldn't shock me either. That's where we are.

Probably comes over as War and Peace but that's my two pennorth.......

Good post with a number of (IMHO) good thoughts / views 

Not someone knee jerking blindly

[Banjo Island]

1 hour ago, DaveInSA said:

I started going donw the gate in 82-83. And this post made me laugh out loud. Funniest and trueist post I've read for years.

I started 67-68 and apart from a few fruitfull seasons in the main its been grim at the gate iam now 66 and every season i say to the family its our year well iam already looking forward to next season could that be our year

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, robinforlife2 said:

None of that has been achieved with Pearson at the helm ...... 4 of your points with a Johnson at the helm. Oh what I would give for a proper manager right now .....

Hi Waconda.

[tin]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

We could just revert to a back 4 if we don't have 3 CBs. That's the sensible option that NP turned down. 

A back four with Atkinson and Vyner as centre-backs against a direct side like Birmingham who had real quality on set pieces? The result would’ve still been a defeat. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

The best time to get Chris Wilder, was when he went to Sheffield United. Probably. 

Bit like, the best time to get Steve Coppell was ... not when we got him.

Thinking about it, the best time to get Nige was .... when we had a few quid to spend. 

 

Our timing - this club's - timing, is like Phil Tuffnell's with a cricket bat, or Pete Best's on his drums.

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

What I find a bit ridiculous in all this is, if you rewind a few weeks to when we kept winning and everyone was convinced we were overnight promotion candidates, Pearson was the one saying “hang on, don’t carried away, we’ve got a lack of squad depth” yet three or four weeks later, everyone is suddenly shocked to discover we don’t have squad depth.

And that is the reality. We cannot afford all the players we need and, in the absence of Naismith and James, we just don’t have cover who can do the same role. And so it is no surprise that we struggle without them.

That is not to absolve Pearson of blame completely. Ultimately he has a very effective system when everyone is fit but it is his job to adapt when they are not. Today we did not make the changes to compensate for the missing players and tried to muddle through without them rather than get the best out the players we have. Without three natural central defenders, you can’t easily get away with a midfielder at full back, for example. 
 

But, with the budget we have, the only way for a team to succeed is to build for the long term. We cannot chuck out the manager and build from scratch every time we get a few defeats. That is something we - both literally and figuratively - simply cannot afford to do. 

Wow

Some sense , written with some thought and understanding 

Really good post

I think ‘Bumps in the road’ were talked about when we were firing only 3/4 weeks ago

’Oh yes of course’ is the reaction .....until a bump in the road when it’s ‘Oh no , I don’t want any bumps’ 

Luckily the majority can look a lot deeper and watch with some thought and can see our situation and the job Pearson is doing (To varying degrees dependent on your personal view) but we have some really identifiable posters who only appear when results go against and have been anti Pearson for some bizarre reason since the day he was appointed, as their posting history shows 

Hes not the Messiah , but he’s solid , experienced , and honest 

He has some flaws and is no tactical or coaching ‘genius’ , makes his own decisions , some which appear brave or strange , but wears them , and the result of them

The messiah ?

No , but lots of great qualities that we , as a Club , need desperately right now IMHO

 

[Better Red]

1 hour ago, GTFABM said:

I can honestly say from the start i didn’t want Pearson. But what i can say is all the behind the scenes stuff he has been exceptional! Had a few very bright games early in the season and was more than pleasantly surprised. He will not offer fast flowing attractive football on the budget given (no budget at all basically). Pointless getting rid because i can imagine we are paying him a very pretty penny to sort this shambles out. Stick with him let him steady the ship and avoid relegation for another season then look at the finances and re asses. Depressing as it is at times this is it for a while. Some good, some awful….

Well said

[Ska Junkie]

41 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Wow

Some sense , written with some thought and understanding 

Really good post

I think ‘Bumps in the road’ were talked about when we were firing only 3/4 weeks ago

’Oh yes of course’ is the reaction .....until a bump in the road when it’s ‘Oh no , I don’t want any bumps’ 

Luckily the majority can look a lot deeper and watch with some thought and can see our situation and the job Pearson is doing (To varying degrees dependent on your personal view) but we have some really identifiable posters who only appear when results go against and have been anti Pearson for some bizarre reason since the day he was appointed, as their posting history shows 

Hes not the Messiah , but he’s solid , experienced , and honest 

He has some flaws and is no tactical or coaching ‘genius’ , makes his own decisions , some which appear brave or strange , but wears them , and the result of them

The messiah ?

No , but lots of great qualities that we , as a Club , need desperately right now IMHO

 

Well said Shelts.

Yes we were crap today but we shouldn't do 'knee jerk', even if we could afford to, which we clearly can't.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Putting aside the Wilder argument, whether he's good, a combination of where we are on the pitch, off it and financially.

Think we just have to stay the course with NP. Highly unlikely we are in any real danger of the drop, up until the Preston postponement we habe seen some really good things this season, even in the Sunderland home defeat it was by no means all doom and gloom.

Some good games, some bad games- some very entertaining games possibly at both ends! If we beat Lincoln it's officially a Cup run IMO.

I do wonder if we could tweak...would there be any merit to and it's a bit knee-jerk Weimann and Semenyo as a pair, maybe James, Scott and Williams in CM.

Reason I suggest that pair is as they were rather productive in providing for each other last season plus both can pull wide out of possession which can make wide areas less vulnerable.

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Ska Junkie said:

Well said Shelts.

Yes we were crap today but we shouldn't do 'knee jerk', even if we could afford to, which we clearly can't.

Like most of us (thankfully) I’m not blind Ska 

Todays ‘performance’ was almost bizarre in its issues , out of sync with what we’ve come to expect , whatever a final result

Pearson himself seemed shocked (As well as clear anger) at it

For me , I’m now looking at how individuals and the side and squad react, not necessarily just for Preston (Although it has obvious significance) but as an overall , up to the World Cup

Can Pearson galvanise them , get them back on the tracks , get a response 

His problem is , he will know he cannot go too hard or threaten anybody with a bus exit as the squad he has available simply doesn’t have enough quality in depth

He needs to get performances out of players that privately who he thinks fall below his real requirements

A test for Pearson and one to watch closely IMHO

[1960maaan]

Hold up, news in coming.

A "reliable source " tells me ....