So, that second goal…

[1960maaan]

5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The shape was fine v a straight ball until the keeper intervenes.

Not sure how Max is to blame for basically 8 City players Vs 4 attackers from the Penalty spot up. 

 

[Better Red]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

What about the defender ignoring the clear shout, then jumping over a team mate who was also ignoring the shout. Doubtful Kalas gets a clean clearing header as Martin is also going for it. 
As for interfering with the high line. O'Leary would be catching the ball just past the Penalty spot. A straight ball with no opposition players challenging . Exactly the sort of Ball I want my Keeper to claim.

That does sound a little condescending , but you may have been a keeper, or are an ex Pro , I don't know.  
But I just know that the Keeper called clearly. He's come with intent to catch, there's no danger or expectation of a challenge , should be a straightforward catch. Until Kalas runs and jumps on top of Martin. Scott ducks out so he's heard the shout.

As I've said, I'll defend him because I like keepers to claim those crosses, specially late on when trying to see games out or needing to get back up the other end. What I will say, I can't be 100% sure how early the shout was, though at the time it seemed early enough to have made it a simple catch. 

Of course you're right, if he stays home they don't score, at least in the way they did. Kalas's header could have gone to the same bloke , in space and it's still a chance.

We are managing to shoot ourselves in the foot on a regular basis, and it's not just that each mistake leads to a goal, they affect confidence and we are struggling to find simple passes, deliver decent balls and players are no longer available for passes they would have been 5 games ago.

A question I would ask about this goal, as I did about the first. Why is there a spare unmarked man at the back/left hand post ?

This has split opinion , so we will have to agree to disagree. I'll still want my keepers to come for balls, I have to then defend them if they do just that.

Cant claim a ball in his six yard box as he is always routed to his line but you want him to collect a ball nearly 20 yards off it.

If that’s the case you got the wrong keeper

[Red-Robbo]

The criticism of Bentley was that he didn't step off his line to intercept crosses flashing just in front of the goalmouth. The situation where Max advanced was quite different. The ball was being played on a forward diagonal, but was loose. There were an enormous amount of red shirts surrounding the recipient of that pass, however the danger would be that the ball might find someone wide and unmarked. Which it did. Had Max stayed on his line, he could have dealt with that threat. As it was, Flemming only needed to sidefoot it into the empty net. The tea lady could've scored it!

We can argue that someone should've tracked Flemming, but without seeing his entire run, and knowing where Weimann and Semenyo had to run back from, that's moot.

[Better Red]

43 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

You do not catch a ball when entering a line. The keeper should punch it. Why because of the variables and the result underlines it.

 

Runners where not tracked and ball watching. The cross was superb.

Starts compact and in a line, and leaves because of the Keeper going. 

The shape was fine v a straight ball until the keeper intervenes. 

How far out is he…  

Anybody he thinks he should be out that far is just palm and simple wrong as proven in the actual game.

It looked stupid live looks even worse when you watch the replay.

[Better Red]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I would say the fact he gets both hands in a position to catch the ball (until Kalas intervenes ) says to me he was in position. I was always told the Keeper calls it's his ball. There is no Millwall player challenging , I think it's reasonable t think he could walk out and catch it to his chest. 

Anyway, moving on. 
What I mean about unmarked men.
First goal 3 players allowed to run and end up free, one getting a good free header.

2nd goal

4 City players marking thin air to the left (this angle) , the Goalscorer , unmarked to the right

 

1st goal - palms to left they don’t score

2nd goal he is almost in the south stand 

Both look like his fault to me

 

[1960maaan]

14 minutes ago, Better Red said:

1st goal - palms to left they don’t score

2nd goal he is almost in the south stand 

Both look like his fault to me

 

1st it's a reaction save, he doesn't get the luxury of choosing where to put it.

2nd he's just past the Penalty spot.

If you're happy watching Bentley never coming off his line , fair play. I want and expect more. 

[RedRock]

My take is that a keeper claiming a ball that far off his line in the context of other player positions is rather exceptional. 

Anywhere between the goal line and penalty spot is the keeper’s domain. Beyond that is the realm of uncertainty when there are opposition players about.

Yes, he did give a shout, and yes there are no opposition players in the ‘ball zone’ but an experienced defender like Kalas would be preset to 100% deal with a ball in that area and, no doubt, totally committed in his head to do that I suspect before the keeper’s shout. 
 
In a way, tough to blame O’Leary, particularly as we’ve all been keen on a keeper dominating his box. I suspect the outcome was mainly a consequence of having a new keeper and re-introduced after long lay-off central defender. Poor though, and preventable, with better defensive unit planning/training/communication.

Edited October 16, 2022 by RedRock

[Colemanballs]

4 hours ago, Cowshed said:

You do not catch a ball when entering a line. The keeper should punch it. Why because of the variables and the result underlines it.

If Kalas doesn't intervene it's an easy catch. To say he should punch it with no opposition players are anywhere near is ludicrous.

Runners where not tracked and ball watching. The cross was superb.

Yep, so the fault of the defence and not MOL.

Starts compact and in a line, and leaves because of the Keeper going. 

The shape was fine v a straight ball until the keeper intervenes. 

Absolute nonsense. See 1960maan's photo posted a couple of posts below. Kalas and Martin were always going to get in each other's way. Scott might have too if he hadn't reacted to MOL's shout.

See above

[Cowshed]

5 hours ago, Colemanballs said:

See above

If Kalas doesn't intervene it's an easy catch. To say he should punch it with no opposition players are anywhere near is ludicrous.

The player didnt catch it. He is entering a line, a high line and the outcome? The whys he should punch. 

Absolute nonsense. See 1960maan's photo posted a couple of posts below. Kalas and Martin were always going to get in each other's way. Scott might have too if he hadn't reacted to MOL's shout.

The shape was fine.There were enough players to deal with ball. They did not need more, If the Keeper stays the opposition do not score. 

[Super]

I wouldn't blame Max for the first goal but the 2nd is 100% his fault. Dreadful goalkeeping.

[cheese]

56 minutes ago, Super said:

I wouldn't blame Max for the first goal but the 2nd is 100% his fault. Dreadful goalkeeping.

[Three Lions]

Oleary should have come out like a tank if hes going all that way out and two fisted it. He came out and hesitated and the ball gets rolled in the net.

[Lordofthebling]

On 16/10/2022 at 21:30, 1960maaan said:

Not sure how Max is to blame for basically 8 City players Vs 4 attackers from the Penalty spot up. 

 

That is literally where max shouldve given a big shout, commanded that box and cleared everyone out with the risk of a clattering. Old school I know.