Dean Holden interview about his time here

[Mr Popodopolous]

Sourced from a podcast, in Bristol Post.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-dean-holden-dismissal-7743965

[mightyreds89]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Sourced from a podcast, in Bristol Post.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-dean-holden-dismissal-7743965

often wonder what might have been with Holden in charge longer term, started so well was very likeable and managed us under very unique circumstances (Covid, injury nightmares and Mark Ashton) shame he never managed us with a crowd at the Gate reckon he’d have loved that. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, mightyreds89 said:

often wonder what might have been with Holden in charge longer term, started so well was very likeable and managed us under very unique circumstances (Covid, injury nightmares and Mark Ashton) shame he never managed us with a crowd at the Gate reckon he’d have loved that. 

Do like Holden, a shame how it ended..the injuries were off the charts and it certainly sounded like he had some innovative ideas.

Yes a crowd behind his intended style of play might have helped all parties, but yeah that aside not being able to play with a crowd there was unfortunate.

[Negan]

Nice bloke but should have never of got the job and was rightly sacked. The football was no better than it was under Johnson, was literally exactly the same which was to be expected seeing as he was part of the original problem. Everyone else could see it apart from Ashton and the lansdowns.  Hopefully he goes on to have a successful career but to dwell on what life would have been like if he’d stayed is weird considering how bad it was. It’s hardly got better all these years on either.

[GrahamC]

He’s clearly a very likeable bloke, every interview he does demonstrates this.

He did have rotten luck with his games all being in the pandemic era too & our injury situation was awful, though it is debatable how much he contributed to that, (Joe Williams certainly appears to think he did).

This is going to sound mean though but the real question here is why on earth did we appoint him in the first place?

He had 15 games as a manager in L1 prior to then & we appear to have only chosen him after a shambles of a process that saw us dither over Hughton & based on 5 meaningless games as caretaker.

Since then he’s reverted to type & been an assistant at Stoke then he’s been linked with (but failed to get) the manager’s job at Rotherham & Exeter.

[Mr Hankey]

8 hours ago, mightyreds89 said:

often wonder what might have been with Holden in charge longer term, started so well was very likeable and managed us under very unique circumstances (Covid, injury nightmares and Mark Ashton) shame he never managed us with a crowd at the Gate reckon he’d have loved that. 

Relegation is what would of happened….think its easy to forget just how awful Holden was due to the lockdown. Would of been toxic if fans were allowed in.

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, Mr Hankey said:

Relegation is what would of happened….think its easy to forget just how awful Holden was due to the lockdown. Would of been toxic if fans were allowed in.

Certainly those who claim there has been no improvement under Pearson seem to have forgotten how bad it was then. The days when we would cheer ironically if we had a shot at all.

Dean is indeed a good human but should never have been handed the poisoned chalice as he just didn't have the experience and authority to handle it. That was not his fault.

Of course Ashton wouldn't have wanted an experienced manager who might push back, a rookie who could be exploited and blamed was more his thing.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Pre the injuries, things weren't too bad. First 10 games or so they and I'm talking performance as well 1st 10 League games were quite good especially when taken as a whole.

When he went we were only going one way but think there is a bit of revisionism on all sides.

As to why he was appointed, I believe stop-gap, the first signs that money starting to become tight, fairly cheap therefore. Couldn't 'trade' to further expenditure or even out of trouble due to Covid- the list goes on. Seen as a safe pair of hands to see us through the Covid season which when weighted with cost...

[Rocking Red Cyril]

36 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

He’s clearly a very likeable bloke, every interview he does demonstrates this.

He did have rotten luck with his games all being in the pandemic era too & our injury situation was awful, though it is debatable how much he contributed to that, (Joe Williams certainly appears to think he did).

This is going to sound mean though but the real question here is why on earth did we appoint him in the first place?

He had 15 games as a manager in L1 prior to then & we appear to have only chosen him after a shambles of a process that saw us dither over Hughton & based on 5 meaningless games as caretaker.

Since then he’s reverted to type & been an assistant at Stoke then he’s been linked with (but failed to get) the manager’s job at Rotherham & Exeter.

Did Joe Williams name Holden directly. And point blame at him for the injury situation ?

[2015]

Should never have been appointed in the first place. The football played between December 2020 and February 2021 was among the worst I've ever seen from a team at this standard. 

Nice guy, but he should never have been Manager.

[GrahamC]

10 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Did Joe Williams name Holden directly. And point blame at him for the injury situation ?

In February ‘21 after signing the previous summer he finally made his first start of the season v Cardiff, managing an hour.

Just 4 days later he was picked again to start for the meaningless cup tie at Sheff U where he went off injured after 57 minutes, he then didn’t play again that season.

Holden picked him, Williams subsequently said that the club’s handling of the injury was amateur, it is some stretch not to think his ridiculous decision to start him again so soon after being out for so long wasn’t at least a factor in him saying this.

It was very marked as to how Pearson (clearly based on Rennie’s advice) has managed his game time completely differently.

[Davefevs]

I think Holden needed support, an experienced man to bounce off…a Lenny Lawrence type man.

Injuries - look at how Rennie / Pearson work together, they don’t risk the player (shit does happen though, that’s pretty unavoidable).  Holden had Rolls, both admit they got pre-season wrong.

I do think that Holden’s loss of Weimann and then Paterson had a big bearing on the drop off.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On the one hand having read it again.

He seemed to back himself to have got it right in the end, I think most people would?

Otoh he said he was surprised he didn't get sacked earlier!

He spoke of if not for Covid, Yoga, meditation, motivational speakers and there was also something else, what do we think?

[Midred]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Pre the injuries, things weren't too bad. First 10 games or so they and I'm talking performance as well 1st 10 League games were quite good especially when taken as a whole.

When he went we were only going one way but think there is a bit of revisionism on all sides.

As to why he was appointed, I believe stop-gap, the first signs that money starting to become tight, fairly cheap therefore. Couldn't 'trade' to further expenditure or even out of trouble due to Covid- the list goes on. Seen as a safe pair of hands to see us through the Covid season which when weighted with cost...

Hadn't the club already approached Pearson who subsequently suffered covid quite badly and was unable to take up the job for the rest of 2020. Even when he took over last year he was stuggling for a while. How much did Holden know of this? Would Ashton have departed earlier?

Edited October 27, 2022 by Midred

[Bedred31]

Classic example of the truism that when an employer adopts a complex appointment process, the successful applicant is usually the candidate who best adapts to the process, rather than the best person for the job. 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Bedred31 said:

Classic example of the truism that when an employer adopts a complex appointment process, the successful applicant is usually the candidate who best adapts to the process, rather than the best person for the job. 

That is so true.

Quite likely the right answers from the other candidates weren’t what MA / JL wanted to hear!

[Sturny]

I'm sorry but I don't give Holden any benefit of the doubt, he was fully out of his depth and the failure was on his employers thinking he was suitable for it. 

[glynriley]

3 hours ago, chinapig said:

Certainly those who claim there has been no improvement under Pearson seem to have forgotten how bad it was then. The days when we would cheer ironically if we had a shot at all.

Dean is indeed a good human but should never have been handed the poisoned chalice as he just didn't have the experience and authority to handle it. That was not his fault.

Of course Ashton wouldn't have wanted an experienced manager who might push back, a rookie who could be exploited and blamed was more his thing.

Spot on.

The most nonsensical appointment ever. I remember being in work when it became clear the DH was going to be the next manager.

I must have had a face like thunder because someone said to me "It's only a game"..!!

I nearly bit his head off..!!

[tin]

Holden was out of his depth, should never have got the job in the first place.

Six weeks it took Ashton’s rigorous process to find a new manager, with “candidates from all over Europe” (Ashton’s words, not mine), and we ended up with Holden.

I don’t blame him for taking it, who wouldn’t in his position, but I fail to accept that’s the best the board could come up with at that time. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, tin said:

Holden was out of his depth, should never have got the job in the first place.

Six weeks it took Ashton’s rigorous process to find a new manager, with “candidates from all over Europe” (Ashton’s words, not mine), and we ended up with Holden.

I don’t blame him for taking it, who wouldn’t in his position, but I fail to accept that’s the best the board could come up with at that time. 

Holding appointment, let's be honest.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Chappers]

I thought he was the right appointment, but ultimately came to grief with injuries, Ashton, financial reality and fans obsessed with ‘experienced manager’. There is no magic formula with managers, just right man, right time. 

[McNasty Filth]

58 minutes ago, Mr Chappers said:

I thought he was the right appointment, but ultimately came to grief with injuries, Ashton, financial reality and fans obsessed with ‘experienced manager’. There is no magic formula with managers, just right man, right time. 

I respect people's opinion about how they view football, but the 'injuries caused our downturn' is just not the case.

If you take the first ten games as mentioned above it was clear to see we were so fortunate in those games with a lot of luck, couple that with alarming deficiencies at the back it was obvious we were due a good hiding sooner rather than later, then it was all downhill from there. 

I always liken it to watching Brazil at the 2014 World Cup. Everyone was caught up in the romanticism of a home tournament, we'll get better with time mindset etc etc, when it was blindingly obvious they were gonna take an absolute mullering (excuse the pun) at some point when up against a half decent side!

[fgrsimon]

A decent bloke but delusional if he thought we were on for a good finish when he left. It was absolute freefall and would have resuted in relegation but for the brief bounce when Pearson was appointed.

[Bris Red]

3 hours ago, Mr Chappers said:

I thought he was the right appointment, but ultimately came to grief with injuries, Ashton, financial reality and fans obsessed with ‘experienced manager’. There is no magic formula with managers, just right man, right time. 

With all due respect how anyone can say they thought Holden was the ‘right’ appointment really is a baffling one.

As has been said on this thread he has reverted back to type as an assistant at Stoke and has applied and failed to get jobs at clubs much smaller than ours. 
He seemed a nice enough guy but he was another woeful appointment by the Lansdown family.

[Lew-T]

I don’t even want to think about that fiasco again. It was weeks of complete nonsense leading up to that joke of an appointment. Could it be Hughton? is it Cook?

Nah it’s Lee Johnson’s failed number two. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

I don’t even want to think about that fiasco again. It was weeks of complete nonsense leading up to that joke of an appointment. Could it be Hughton? is it Cook?

Nah it’s Lee Johnson’s failed number two. 

A prevailing uncertainty and the first signs of financial restraints starting to kick in.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

On the pitch, checked his last 5 League games.

Just the 2 goals scored, only the 27 shots- only played okay weighted for opposition etc at Brentford, dread to think how many we conceded but was definitely over 2 a game!

[GrahamC]

38 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On the pitch, checked his last 5 League games.

Just the 2 goals scored, only the 27 shots- only played okay weighted for opposition etc at Brentford, dread to think how many we conceded but was definitely over 2 a game!

We conceded 14 in his last 5 games, in the last 3 of them we had one shot on target in each.

It was abysmal.

Edited October 28, 2022 by GrahamC

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, jaydee=inspiration said:

I respect people's opinion about how they view football, but the 'injuries caused our downturn' is just not the case.

If you take the first ten games as mentioned above it was clear to see we were so fortunate in those games with a lot of luck, couple that with alarming deficiencies at the back it was obvious we were due a good hiding sooner rather than later, then it was all downhill from there. 

I always liken it to watching Brazil at the 2014 World Cup. Everyone was caught up in the romanticism of a home tournament, we'll get better with time mindset etc etc, when it was blindingly obvious they were gonna take an absolute mullering (excuse the pun) at some point when up against a half decent side!

I disagree.  Initial injury to Kalas on the cup meant he never really got to play with Mawson, who then got injured in our first defeat (0-0) at the time.  Then a game or two later, Weimann picked up his ACL.  Paterson a bit later.  Mawson was excellent in those opening games as were Andi and Pato.  We had more depth then than now, but they were big players in the the “Holdenball” system.  Wells and Martin looked good together too.  Martin eventually injured too.

Its not the only reason, but I do think it had a big impact.

[Major Isewater]

I would like to congratulate you on your thread title. Thank you.