Fans Forum

[IAmNick]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That bit about teenagers up, that's good. You 'hook' them young, good chance that loyalty stays persistent.

Not all of course, people move away, life circs change etc etc but that is interesting and positive.

Football behind the goal, appeals to a lot of people. I always preferred it myself although it's a personal preference of course, the idea of an 'End'. Guess side on, the shape and tactics can be followed more readily? 

Cheapest area by some way as well- think it's almost £100 less than the Dolman and also £300 less than my seat in the Lansdown!

Under 12 seat for £55 is a steal

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

If nothing else it still highlights that we can’t evolve the squad as quickly as Nige would like and are “making do”.  

It puzzles me that some people can't see this. If you reduce your costs by £10m you are indeed going to have to make do so on field progress is going to be slow. Vyner is a good example, if Nigel had the money to sign the additional centre half he wants Vyner would likely no longer be here. Simply staying up last season was an achievement in the circumstances.

As I've said before it's reasonable to expect that it will take as long to clear up the mess as it took Ashton and Johnson to create it. Arguably longer since it was a lot easier to create the problem than it is to fix it.

[ExiledAjax]

11 minutes ago, chinapig said:

It puzzles me that some people can't see this. If you reduce your costs by £10m you are indeed going to have to make do so on field progress is going to be slow. Vyner is a good example, if Nigel had the money to sign the additional centre half he wants Vyner would likely no longer be here. Simply staying up last season was an achievement in the circumstances.

As I've said before it's reasonable to expect that it will take as long to clear up the mess as it took Ashton and Johnson to create it. Arguably longer since it was a lot easier to create the problem than it is to fix it.

Yep. Takes 5 minutes to pay £8m for a player and agree £25k a week. Takes 5 years to wind that contract up and amortise it out. Extreme example perhaps but that's what it is.

I hope last night helped more fans appreciate the severity of the situation we were in when Pearson and the Gould came in. Honestly to be doing what we're doing on the pitch and in the league whilst simultaneously doing what we're doing on the balance sheet is very impressive.

[Mr Popodopolous]

38 minutes ago, chinapig said:

It puzzles me that some people can't see this. If you reduce your costs by £10m you are indeed going to have to make do so on field progress is going to be slow. Vyner is a good example, if Nigel had the money to sign the additional centre half he wants Vyner would likely no longer be here. Simply staying up last season was an achievement in the circumstances.

As I've said before it's reasonable to expect that it will take as long to clear up the mess as it took Ashton and Johnson to create it. Arguably longer since it was a lot easier to create the problem than it is to fix it.

I'm assuming that it is the net impact of revenue bouncing back, cost reduction (wages and amortisation) and then offsetting it a bit, a reduced profit on player sales (£6m in 2020-21, unsure we made any at all last season). Not totally a reduction of cost base but a combination of all the factors.

I agree with your post though, we are making steady improvements on the pitch while simultaneously becoming a bit more financially sound off it. Is good to see.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[chinapig]

50 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm assuming that it is the net impact of revenue bouncing back, cost reduction (wages and amortisation) and then offsetting it a bit, a reduced profit on player sales (£6m in 2020-21, unsure we made any at all last season). Not totally a reduction of cost base but a combination of all the factors.

I agree with your post though, we are making steady improvements on the pitch while simultaneously becoming a bit more financially sound off it. Is good to see.

Yes, I should say reduce losses rather than costs perhaps.

[Davefevs]

53 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm assuming that it is the net impact of revenue bouncing back, cost reduction (wages and amortisation) and then offsetting it a bit, a reduced profit on player sales (£6m in 2020-21, unsure we made any at all last season). Not totally a reduction of cost base but a combination of all the factors.

I agree with your post though, we are making steady improvements on the pitch while simultaneously becoming a bit more financially sound off it. Is good to see.

Wonder if we are down on revenue due to the timing of the summer gigs missing 31st May, and are part of this year’s accounts? Clutching a bit!

Edited October 28, 2022 by Davefevs

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Wonder if we are down on revenue due to the timing of the summer gigs missing 31st May, and are part of this year’s accounts? Clutching a bit!

Good point that I haven't considered! In 2018-19, that was a bumper year as we not only had the WC Fans Village but also (iirc) two of the four gigs fell in the period ending May 31st 2019.

We still have the benefit to come of course, of the WC. Sports Bar plus in the concourses which is a modified version for winter of the Fans Village that's usually outside as it was in 2018.

[RedM]

One thing I don't think has been mentioned on here so far is last nights comment about pace. I can't remember if it was when they were discussing young players and progression or in response to why can't we handle physical teams. Something was said along the lines of it might not be anytime soon but if we do get the the premiership then we have the thing that all teams want/need, pace. 

I believe its a very certain path we are trying to steer towards, quick attacking players who can play their way to promotion rather than the more physical players who muscle themselves into the premiership and then find themselves struggling amongst the sides that play passing football.

Of course there is more than one way of getting promotion, but how many times have we seen newly promoted sides be almost totally dismantled and rebuilt immediately. i think our aim is to pick up young talent, keep them together for as long as possible and go up and stay up. It won't be an immediate thing, still lots of work to do as of course young players have a lot to learn. It sounds like there are 'layers' in place too, so there is always another player waiting to break through. Interesting I thought.

[CheddarReds]

I enjoyed hearing Pearson's thoughts on VAR and officiating. I thought his criticism of PGMOL, VAR application from the VAR officials and refereeing standards generally was fair, and doing so while appreciating a few top referees and acknowledging that officials need further support meant his stand came across as fairly well balanced. 

After some of the poor refereeing and misfortune we've seen in recent seasons would we as fans be more onboard with the prospect of VAR in the championship? I think if this question was asked a couple seasons ago the answer would've been a resounding no from 95%+. 

[phantom]

THIS THREAD AS ORIGINALLY STARTED IS TO DISCUSS THE FANS FORUM

FOR ANYONE THAT WANTS TO DISCUSS RANDOM COMMENTS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT OFFEND SOMEONE CAN FIND THAT THREAD CONTINUING HERE

 

[Harry]

2 hours ago, RedM said:

One thing I don't think has been mentioned on here so far is last nights comment about pace. I can't remember if it was when they were discussing young players and progression or in response to why can't we handle physical teams. Something was said along the lines of it might not be anytime soon but if we do get the the premiership then we have the thing that all teams want/need, pace. 

I believe its a very certain path we are trying to steer towards, quick attacking players who can play their way to promotion rather than the more physical players who muscle themselves into the premiership and then find themselves struggling amongst the sides that play passing football.

Of course there is more than one way of getting promotion, but how many times have we seen newly promoted sides be almost totally dismantled and rebuilt immediately. i think our aim is to pick up young talent, keep them together for as long as possible and go up and stay up. It won't be an immediate thing, still lots of work to do as of course young players have a lot to learn. It sounds like there are 'layers' in place too, so there is always another player waiting to break through. Interesting I thought.

I thought the comment re pace was actually quite odd. 
Pace isn’t one of the things I’d associate with our squad at the moment. 
I’d say Semenyo is quite quick, but not exactly rapid. Same for Conway. Plus Sykes is probably quite quick too. 
But again, none of those 3 are exactly blistering. 
The rest of the regular first team, I just can’t see it. In fact I think there’s actually a distinct lack of pace. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Harry

[Rob]

I watched it. I thought it was a very considered conversation giving us some insight into the internal football market we dont see

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I thought the comment re pace was actually quite odd. 
Pace isn’t one of the things I’d associate with our squad at the moment. 
I’d say Semenyo is quite quick, but not exactly rapid. Same for Conway. Plus Sykes is probably quite quick too. 
But again, none of those 3 are exactly blistering. 
The rest of the regular first team, I just can’t see it. In fact I think there’s actually a distinct lack of pace. 

I agree with you and Nige. I think most of our squad are quick for their relative positions.  Nobody blistering as you say but most players above average pace. Overall, a quick squad 

[ExiledAjax]

I'm working my way through the video.

Have just heard the excellent answers to the loans question. First we get an exceptionally transparent answer from Gould and Pearson. They explain in detail why we aren't going for PL loans, and this includes complaints about the cost of those loans and about the fact that in taking them we add value to that PL club's squad rather than our own.

The very next answer is Tins explaining how valuable it is to Bristol City to be able to loan a player to a L2 club in order for them to get 40 games of experience.

Is this not rank hypocrisy from us? How can we reconcile complaints about the PL's exploitative practices and in the next breath sing the praises of our own use of the system?

As interesting as it was to hear about Nige's hikes on the Mendips I'd have loved to be there to ask the above as a follow up.

[Lanterne Rouge]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I'm working my way through the video.

Have just heard the excellent answers to the loans question. First we get an exceptionally transparent answer from Gould and Pearson. They explain in detail why we aren't going for PL loans, and this includes complaints about the cost of those loans and about the fact that in taking them we add value to that PL club's squad rather than our own.

The very next answer is Tins explaining how valuable it is to Bristol City to be able to loan a player to a L2 club in order for them to get 40 games of experience.

Is this not rank hypocrisy from us? How can we reconcile complaints about the PL's exploitative practices and in the next breath sing the praises of our own use of the system?

As interesting as it was to hear about Nige's hikes on the Mendips I'd have loved to be there to ask the above as a follow up.

I suppose it comes down to the reason for loaning out. Are we doing it purely and genuinely to give our young lads experience and not charging the recipient clubs much if anything or are we looking to turn a profit? IMO it`s the former so no double standards.

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, Lanterne Rouge said:

I suppose it comes down to the reason for loaning out. Are we doing it purely and genuinely to give our young lads experience and not charging the recipient clubs much if anything or are we looking to turn a profit? IMO it`s the former so no double standards.

Yes so part of the question is do we charge loan fees ourselves? Are our players relatively high earners in a League 2 dressing room? Have our demands changed much in the past 10 years? 

I suppose as well is there a feeling amongst L2 clubs that matches how Gould and Pearson describe PL loans?

There are of course answers to those questions which would, if given, preclude accusations of hypocrisy. But without asking that question we can't know for sure.

[cidercity1987]

11 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I'm working my way through the video.

Have just heard the excellent answers to the loans question. First we get an exceptionally transparent answer from Gould and Pearson. They explain in detail why we aren't going for PL loans, and this includes complaints about the cost of those loans and about the fact that in taking them we add value to that PL club's squad rather than our own.

The very next answer is Tins explaining how valuable it is to Bristol City to be able to loan a player to a L2 club in order for them to get 40 games of experience.

Is this not rank hypocrisy from us? How can we reconcile complaints about the PL's exploitative practices and in the next breath sing the praises of our own use of the system?

As interesting as it was to hear about Nige's hikes on the Mendips I'd have loved to be there to ask the above as a follow up.

Agree

Criticising PL loan managers whilst sat next to Brian Tinnion ex job title, loan manager.

[Sheltons Army]

3 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Agree

Criticising PL loan managers whilst sat next to Brian Tinnion ex job title, loan manager.

But you heard Tinnion on why we used to loan so many out ?

Different regime , completely different thought processes 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

I agree with you and Nige. I think most of our squad are quick for their relative positions.  Nobody blistering as you say but most players above average pace. Overall, a quick squad 

Can’t see it personally. 
Looking at our most utilised players this season :

No pace at all : Martin, James, Williams, King, Klose. 
Not much pace : Naismith, Atkinson, Vyner, Dasilva, HNM, Scott, Wells, Weimann. 
A little bit of pace : Semenyo, Conway, Sykes, Pring.
 

Doesn’t strike me as a quick squad. Sorry.  

5 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Agree

Criticising PL loan managers whilst sat next to Brian Tinnion ex job title, loan manager.

I did find that quite amusing 

[And Its Smith]

Just now, Harry said:

Can’t see it personally. 
Looking at our most utilised players this season :

No pace at all : Martin, James, Williams, King, Klose. 
Not much pace : Naismith, Atkinson, Vyner, Dasilva, HNM, Scott, Wells, Weimann. 
A little bit of pace : Semenyo, Conway, Sykes, Pring.
 

Doesn’t strike me as a quick squad. Sorry.  

Apology accepted 

[RedM]

Regarding loaning our players to lower league clubs, maybe these clubs don't have academies so for them its a good way to get players they otherwise wouldn't attract. If they don't have academies then our players aren't blocking anyone's progress as such. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yes so part of the question is do we charge loan fees ourselves? Are our players relatively high earners in a League 2 dressing room? Have our demands changed much in the past 10 years? 

I suppose as well is there a feeling amongst L2 clubs that matches how Gould and Pearson describe PL loans?

There are of course answers to those questions which would, if given, preclude accusations of hypocrisy. But without asking that question we can't know for sure.

Without seeing the figures we can never know but I honestly do think that, if we were demanding loan fees from the likes of AFC Wimbledon or Ross County, our players would never go there. Only wages and expenses is what is required I would think.

[RedM]

4 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Without seeing the figures we can never know but I honestly do think that, if we were demanding loan fees from the likes of AFC Wimbledon or Ross County, our players would never go there. Only wages and expenses is what is required I would think.

I very much doubt such clubs would pay the whole of the wage too. They get a player from a Championship club, and we get them to provide experience. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

Just now, RedM said:

I very much doubt such clubs would pay the whole of the wage too. They get a player from a Championship club, and we get them to provide experience. 

Absolutely. That said, I can`t imagine the likes of Ryley or Owura are on much more than the players they`re going to be playing with either.

[ExiledAjax]

6 minutes ago, RedM said:

Regarding loaning our players to lower league clubs, maybe these clubs don't have cat 1 academies so for them its a good way to get players they otherwise wouldn't attract. If they don't have cat 1 academies then our players aren't blocking anyone's of any importance's progress as such. 

Is this not the very same argument that a Spurs fan might use about loans to the Championship? Edits required shown above and are very limited.

2 minutes ago, RedM said:

I very much doubt such clubs would pay the whole of the wage too. They get a player from a Championship Premier League club, and we get them to provide experience. 

And again, just sub "Premier League" for "Championship" and you've got Man City's loans manager's argument for sending 50 17 year olds to Millwall.

7 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Without seeing the figures we can never know but I honestly do think that, if we were demanding loan fees from the likes of AFC Wimbledon or Ross County, our players would never go there. Only wages and expenses is what is required I would think.

Which is a fair assumption, but isn't one that I personally am willing to make.

I'm just probing the dual stance of the Club shown in those answers as I think there are follow up questions to ask.

[Sheltons Army]

9 minutes ago, RedM said:

Regarding loaning our players to lower league clubs, maybe these clubs don't have academies so for them its a good way to get players they otherwise wouldn't attract. If they don't have academies then our players aren't blocking anyone's progress as such. 

Totally agree M, think you and Lanterne are both correct

We were clear and open various reasons why we haven’t had loans in , we haven’t slagged off clubs who do loan players out , just highlighted the potential costs regarding PL Loanees , and also the other issues we consider , like blocking pathways

Whether other Clubs choose to take loans is up to them 

Id agree that I’d be very surprised if Clubs borrowing from us creates a strain or problem for their budget, Tins was quite clear why we have loaned certain players out

Why people look to knock the Club when I thought it was an extremely interesting , open insight into some things is beyond me

[Mr Popodopolous]

Any idea how often these are, annual or biannual?

Definitely would go to another if work etc allows for it.

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Any idea how often these are, annual or biannual?

Definitely would go to another if work etc allows for it.

Annual but I don’t see why they can’t do one in March and one in October if people wanted it 

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Annual but I don’t see why they can’t do one in March and one in October if people wanted it 

Would be good, although credit for streaming it, Facebook etc.

Yeah thought it went well, was well attended. A twice yearly one could be good if logistics allow.

[maxjak]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

I thought the comment re pace was actually quite odd. 
Pace isn’t one of the things I’d associate with our squad at the moment. 
I’d say Semenyo is quite quick, but not exactly rapid. Same for Conway. Plus Sykes is probably quite quick too. 
But again, none of those 3 are exactly blistering. 
The rest of the regular first team, I just can’t see it. In fact I think there’s actually a distinct lack of pace. 

Have to agree, we are an average side as regards pacey players at best, the way Nigel put it, you'd have thought we had the quickest players in the League?  Sorry NP, can't agree with you there.                                  

   It also concerned me that   Nigel approached it as almost a matter of pride, that we don't have a set piece specialist coach, I would say, Yep, that certainly shows?  As our set piece delivery from corners and free kicks is exceedingly average, and it is a weapon used very successfully by some sides, but at present, not us? 

Also Nigel's response when asked about playing three at the back, he stated that is because it suits our players, and we have no full backs?  Well our two wing backs must have some of the worst stats with regard to assist's, standard of crossing, and affecting the attacking aspect of our play in the league ?  So I would say that it doesn't suit Sykes and Dasilva, as can be shown by their respective records.  Even so, it was a greatly entertaining Fan's Forum