Mr Popodopolous Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) The title says it all?? https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/63456664 https://safc.com/news/club-news/2022/october/supporter-update-31-oct Edited October 31, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted October 31, 2022 Admin Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 How can they stop someone carrying coins and vapes on them, that is crazy. Especially as it is away supporters that would have travelled long distances potentially spending money and those that need to would have vaped It will be interesting to see what they do with the money taken off people 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Good luck to the stewards..........who will be spending their time shoving their hands deep into people's pockets.........potential for sexual harrassment case's by the boatload? Ha!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Why don't the club put away fans in the upper Lansdown, so we can have City fans behind both goals and improve the atmosphere? 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted October 31, 2022 Admin Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 18 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said: Why don't the club put away fans in the upper Lansdown, so we can have City fans behind both goals and improve the atmosphere? .... like we haven't already had pages and pages discussing this on here in the past 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) There is clearly a problem there, away fans above the home fans and lists some of the issues, but this is patently absurd. Can see it causing real issues at the turnstiles. Edited October 31, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: There is clearly a problem there, away fans above the home fans and lists some of the issues, but this is patently absurd. Can see it causing real issues at the turnstiles. Yep, my thoughts exactly. Surely taking any coins from Fans entering the ground is the Dictionary definition of theft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said: Why don't the club put away fans in the upper Lansdown, so we can have City fans behind both goals and improve the atmosphere? Because I sit in the Lower Lansdown, and I don't want to be covered in p*ss every game. I've no objection to the coins (or notes) though. Seriously though I do think we should have home fans behind both goals, but logistically I don't see how the club could do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) How would they even start to check the pockets of 2,000 fans? Most people will have at least 6 pockets. Edited October 31, 2022 by RedLionLad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 hours ago, phantom said: How can they stop someone carrying coins and vapes on them, that is crazy. Especially as it is away supporters that would have travelled long distances potentially spending money and those that need to would have vaped It will be interesting to see what they do with the money taken off people Well, if away fans are throwing, inter alia, vapes and coins, at home fans sitting below them, it seems quite fair (to me) to deprive them of such objects prior to entering the ground. Re. the confiscated coins, Sunderland have stated that this will be given to a charity of the away Club's choice. 8 minutes ago, 1960maaan said: Yep, my thoughts exactly. Surely taking any coins from Fans entering the ground is the Dictionary definition of theft. The legal definition of Theft, far more important in my view, requires 'the coins' to have been taken ....dishonestly.... I am quite sure a sign warning away supporters that, should they endeavour to bring coins with them in to the ground, such coins will be confiscated (and given to a charity of their Club's choice) should absolve Sunderland of any allegations of theft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 is a dumb idea having one set of opposing fans above the other. surely any bonehead can see its asking for stuff to get lobbed over the raillings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, RedLionLad said: How would they even start to check the pockets of 20,000 fans? Most people will have at least 6 pockets. Walk through metal detector arch type things, put all metal object into trays and walk through. I remember doing that at West Hams old ground, over 30 years ago! But no, realistically they can't tell fans they can't carry money can they? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, RedM said: Walk through metal detector arch type things, put all metal object into trays and walk through. I remember doing that at West Hams old ground, over 30 years ago! But no, realistically they can't tell fans they can't carry money can they? Anyone determined to get items into the stadium with the intention of throwing them onto fans below would only need to carry some old keys etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Do people still use coins? Haven't used any for years. The last time I drew cash out was £100 just before lockdown, in case of an emergency. Still have it all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, Hxj said: Do people still use coins? Haven't used any for years. The last time I drew cash out was £100 just before lockdown, in case of an emergency. Still have it all. I still use notes and coins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonFoote'snephew Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 I don't have a problem with this. Coins will only be confiscated if they haven't been previously discarded as asked. Just don't take coins and use your card or dispose if them in a charity box at somelical pub or restaurant before pitching up to the ground. As for vaoung it's a, disgusting habit anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted October 31, 2022 Admin Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 42 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: Well, if away fans are throwing, inter alia, vapes and coins, at home fans sitting below them, it seems quite fair (to me) to deprive them of such objects prior to entering the ground. You have to be joking, these aren't the only things that could be used to chuck, the list could be endless, absolute lunacy Sunderland have previous for excessive searches of away fans causing problems, and they had to give up as they were taking too long 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 48 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: Well, if away fans are throwing, inter alia, vapes and coins, at home fans sitting below them, it seems quite fair (to me) to deprive them of such objects prior to entering the ground. Re. the confiscated coins, Sunderland have stated that this will be given to a charity of the away Club's choice. The legal definition of Theft, far more important in my view, requires 'the coins' to have been taken ....dishonestly.... I am quite sure a sign warning away supporters that, should they endeavour to bring coins with them in to the ground, such coins will be confiscated (and given to a charity of their Club's choice) should absolve Sunderland of any allegations of theft. My comment was a little tongue in cheek, but the point stands, surely taking money from someone against their will cannot be legal. I rarely carry cash, apart from City games as some Pubs used to be cash only, which is ironic. They would struggle IMO, the argument is they could be missiles , well so could pies or drinks. I think they could open themselves up to a Court case. An interesting story, worth keeping an eye. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, 1960maaan said: My comment was a little tongue in cheek, but the point stands, surely taking money from someone against their will cannot be legal. They are not taking the coins from you against your will. Football grounds are private property and the club can therefore insist on any rules it wishes for you to be allowed entry. Failure to follow those rules means that they are allowed to prohibit your entry, even if you have a valid ticket. So with a valid ticket you can either hand over your coins and enter or keep your coins and walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Hxj said: They are not taking the coins from you against your will. Football grounds are private property and the club can therefore insist on any rules it wishes for you to be allowed entry. Failure to follow those rules means that they are allowed to prohibit your entry, even if you have a valid ticket. So with a valid ticket you can either hand over your coins and enter or keep your coins and walk away. It's the fact they are taking legal tender from you I'm struggling with. If their T&Cs said they can take all notes under £100 would it be allowed, stretching the point I know, but it does seem extreme. There is surely CCTV there, arrest anyone throwing things, not like they usually struggle zooming in. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 38 minutes ago, 1960maaan said: It's the fact they are taking legal tender from you I'm struggling with. Their house their rules. They could insist that you wore a sags shirt for entry into the away end and that would still be legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, Hxj said: Their house their rules. They could insist that you wore a sags shirt for entry into the away end and that would still be legal. Now that would be illegal and abusive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Chappers Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 If they are experiencing problems, not selling alcohol in away areas might be a better starting point. Sure most people can manage about 3 hours without some over-priced tasteless beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 They might make it a condition of entry to not allow coins or vapes , but they certainly don’t have the legal right to retain or dispose of said items Getting themselves into some difficult legal territory there Still , they have obviously read the handbook of the Italian Caribineri who ,at Italia 90 took coins , cigarette lighters , belts , laces , cigarettes , never to be seen again Lucky if you were left with a pair of shorts and your shoes ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy1968 Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said: Well, if away fans are throwing, inter alia, vapes and coins, at home fans sitting below them, it seems quite fair (to me) to deprive them of such objects prior to entering the ground. Re. the confiscated coins, Sunderland have stated that this will be given to a charity of the away Club's choice. The legal definition of Theft, far more important in my view, requires 'the coins' to have been taken ....dishonestly.... I am quite sure a sign warning away supporters that, should they endeavour to bring coins with them in to the ground, such coins will be confiscated (and given to a charity of their Club's choice) should absolve Sunderland of any allegations of theft. I think its reasonable to deprive people of coins and vapes and whatever else could be used as missiles/weapons before entry into the ground under general ground regulations. They would have to be applied consistantly though. The club would need to return any item taken at the end of the game (unless it was something illegal, in which event they would need to turn the item(s) and the offender over to the police to deal with), otherwise it would be theft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said: Well, if away fans are throwing, inter alia, vapes and coins, at home fans sitting below them, it seems quite fair (to me) to deprive them of such objects prior to entering the ground. Re. the confiscated coins, Sunderland have stated that this will be given to a charity of the away Club's choice. The legal definition of Theft, far more important in my view, requires 'the coins' to have been taken ....dishonestly.... I am quite sure a sign warning away supporters that, should they endeavour to bring coins with them in to the ground, such coins will be confiscated (and given to a charity of their Club's choice) should absolve Sunderland of any allegations of theft. I’d suggest they ‘dishonestly appropriate the property’ to at the point where they decide how to dispose of it and not return it to the owner (They , at that point , without legality , ‘assume the rights of the owner’) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said: Well, if away fans are throwing, inter alia, vapes and coins, at home fans sitting below them, it seems quite fair (to me) to deprive them of such objects prior to entering the ground. Re. the confiscated coins, Sunderland have stated that this will be given to a charity of the away Club's choice. The legal definition of Theft, far more important in my view, requires 'the coins' to have been taken ....dishonestly.... I am quite sure a sign warning away supporters that, should they endeavour to bring coins with them in to the ground, such coins will be confiscated (and given to a charity of their Club's choice) should absolve Sunderland of any allegations of theft. They’re not though, are they (away fans throwing coins). A tiny minority of some away fans throw coins. I don’t see why that should mean that when I turn up on 18th Feb they have the right to take my money. It’s a bit like City saying that because away fans have kicked our toilets in we’ll confiscate boots off every visiting away fan - and sticking up a warning sign on the approach to the ground makes that OK. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Constant Rabbit Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Hxj said: They are not taking the coins from you against your will. Football grounds are private property and the club can therefore insist on any rules it wishes for you to be allowed entry. Failure to follow those rules means that they are allowed to prohibit your entry, even if you have a valid ticket. So with a valid ticket you can either hand over your coins and enter or keep your coins and walk away. Pretty certain it is illegal. To confiscate coins is to deprive someone of the right to settle a debt with 'Legal tender' - an old law to be sure, but it IS a law. Note the word 'private' above - to enter a private facility and buy stuff is to incur a private debt - and legal tender MUST be accepted to settle that debt. Going cardless in that facility does not change the fact that you can legally still pay in cash, wether the private facility like it or not. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxj Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, The Constant Rabbit said: Note the word 'private' above - to enter a private facility and buy stuff is to incur a private debt - and legal tender MUST be accepted to settle that debt. Going cardless in that facility does not change the fact that you can legally still pay in cash, wether the private facility like it or not. No. Their house their rules. You are missing the point. It is private property therefore they can decide on any rules they want, if you don't like it go somewhere else. As to 'Legal Tender' that is an oft misunderstood term. Legal tender rules allow you to pay any pre-existing debt by legal tender. That doesn't force an organisation to accept payment in a manner that does not comply with their payment terms. So if you go into Sunderland's ground and order a beer, there is no 'debt' until they agree to the purchase. If their terms insist on card payments only they can refuse to sell you the goods when you offer to buy them with cash and therefore there is no debt. Therefore you cannot insist on paying with 'legal tender'. It is all to do with the 'treat', 'offer' and 'acceptance' on a contract. If you went to a petrol station and filled the car with fuel before payment, then you can insist on payment by Legal Tender, as you already have the goods and therefore a debt pre-exists payment. Edited October 31, 2022 by Hxj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 47 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said: I think its reasonable to deprive people of coins and vapes and whatever else could be used as missiles/weapons before entry into the ground under general ground regulations. Phones? Keys? Belts? Shoes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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