How Low Can You Go…

[Silvio Dante]

This isn’t a post slating Joe Low.

The point here is watching the game I recall the following:

Minute One: Ball comes to Low, big hoof up the pitch

Just after first goal: skinned by winger. Let him run past, didn’t engage or make a tackle

Multiple poor touches and pressured

The obvious error

The booking. It was telegraphed - touch was poor and gave the opportunity for the Lincoln player. Joe banged the turf in frustration afterwards - he knew he was having a mare.

So, my question is twofold:

- Did Pearson make a rick by leaving him on past 15 minutes, it was clear he was gone before then

- How much responsibility is specifically on Klose and King as senior pros - I don’t think they helped him much when it was clear that he was gone - did anyone else see it that way?

 

[marcofisher]

Players have to be given a chance to step up, just like Scott and Conway have done when given a chance. Seen so many ridiculous posts accusing NP of throwing him under the bus when in reality he has been given the chance to show what he is about in a fairly insignificant cup.

[GrahamC]

It is really difficult.

He could easily have taken Low off earlier but hooking someone after 20 minutes is humiliating & destroys confidence.

He was really poor but certainly Sykes gave him little cover & Klose & King struggled too.

 I doubt he’ll be in the squad on Saturday though as Pearson appears to have had enough of Klose as well, maybe he will.

[David Brent]

Sykes didn’t help him out much either.

 

[Carey 6]

Pearson hooked Tanner early last season at West Brom away and got pelters for not waiting until half time. So I can understand why he did wait today, especially with a player newer to the set up than Tanner was at the time. 

Was a similar level of performance today as we saw Sam Bell have against Birmingham last season. Doesn’t look ready to me.

[Wellspokenman]

A bit harsh, and I really feel for the lad. He has obviously impressed in the under 21s to be given a shout. One of those nights where what could go wrong, did go wrong. 
His confidence was hit and to drag him off before half time would have humiliated and destroyed him. 
His teammates from what I could see, did their best the pick him up, and I saw Weimann on a last a couple of occasions go up to him and and offer support. Sykes did him no favours with his perpetual lack of defending support. One of the reasons we are so exposed every match down our right flank.

 

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

It is really difficult.

He could easily have taken Low off earlier but hooking someone after 20 minutes is humiliating & destroys confidence.

He was really poor but certainly Sykes gave him little cover & Klose & King struggled too.

 I doubt he’ll be in the squad on Saturday though as Pearson appears to have had enough of Klose as well, maybe he will.

I get what you’re saying but I’d have done it after 20 and said so at the time in the match thread. Ultimately it got worse for him as the game went on - players actively weren’t passing to him and the booking was horrific. 
 

When we went 2-0 down if Nige makes the subs it can be viewed as trying to get back in the game proactively. I think he hung him out a bit tbh.

As for Sykes - totally agree. He’s becoming a bete noir for me!

[italian dave]

3 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Pearson hooked Tanner early last season at West Brom away and got pelters for not waiting until half time. So I can understand why he did wait today, especially with a player newer to the set up than Tanner was at the time. 

Was a similar level of performance today as we saw Sam Bell have against Birmingham last season. Doesn’t look ready to me.

And, IIRC, he hooked Tanner immediately after a poor back pass which nearly cost us a goal. And replaced him with Simpson who proceeded to make an even worse back pass that did cost us a goal. Maybe Pearson learnt from that?! 

[Northern Red]

Sykes and Klose being hooked at the same time as him might suggest that Pearson held them responsible for not protecting him enough.

[GrahamC]

8 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I get what you’re saying but I’d have done it after 20 and said so at the time in the match thread. Ultimately it got worse for him as the game went on - players actively weren’t passing to him and the booking was horrific. 
 

When we went 2-0 down if Nige makes the subs it can be viewed as trying to get back in the game proactively. I think he hung him out a bit tbh.

As for Sykes - totally agree. He’s becoming a bete noir for me!

No argument & you’re right, it was obvious by the 30 minute mark Klose wasn’t going to pass to him again.

[The Bard]

I haven't really seen him play before, but to me he looked like he can only play in the middle of a 3.  He wanted to organise and communicate but looked completely lost when dragged wide and not at all confident in possession.  He could do with going on loan to the National League or League 2 to get used to adult football.   

[Davefevs]

Low on a yellow too.

Harsh as it is…welcome to proper men’s football Joe.

[Steve Watts]

I'm in two minds over when he should've gone off. He was indeed clearly out of his depth, but the reaction he was getting from the crowd, then if hooked before the break I can imagine the jeers he'd have received whilst making the long walk and you wonder how he comes back from that. Genuinely thought sections of the crowd were disgraceful in their treatment of him tonight. I know some will say it didn't happen, but he really was being booed after almost every mistake. This is a kid making his debut and that's the support he gets?

He was left massively exposed by Klose and Sykes and had no support. When there was an injury and the players went to take instructions it was telling that Joe made the walk back to his position alone. There should've been proper leaders walking with him, encouraging him and trying to lift his mood, but not a single player stepped up. Some of those players tonight I hope will only be seen in a city shirt again by way of necessity because there is no one else. Because they certainly shouldn't be in the squad on merit. 

Tonight has left me angry. Conduct on the pitch and in the stands was shameful. Tonight should have been a real statement performance from some, and indeed it was.... Just not the statement we hoped for.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

I'm in two minds over when he should've gone off. He was indeed clearly out of his depth, but the reaction he was getting from the crowd, then if hooked before the break I can imagine the jeers he'd have received whilst making the long walk and you wonder how he comes back from that. Genuinely thought sections of the crowd were disgraceful in their treatment of him tonight. I know some will say it didn't happen, but he really was being booed after almost every mistake. This is a kid making his debut and that's the support he gets?

He was left massively exposed by Klose and Sykes and had no support. When there was an injury and the players went to take instructions it was telling that Joe made the walk back to his position alone. There should've been proper leaders walking with him, encouraging him and trying to lift his mood, but not a single player stepped up. Some of those players tonight I hope will only be seen in a city shirt again by way of necessity because there is no one else. Because they certainly shouldn't be in the squad on merit. 

Tonight has left me angry. Conduct on the pitch and in the stands was shameful. Tonight should have been a real statement performance from some, and indeed it was.... Just not the statement we hoped for.

Andy King went over to him and had some words of encouragement.

[Olé]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Andy King went over to him and had some words of encouragement.

Well that was kind. Pity he didn't help him out by actually taking some responsibility and providing support during the time Low was on the pitch. 

That performance from King was an absolute effing disgrace. He's meant to be the experienced player in midfield, he hit his first two forward passes to absolutely no one, then decided he just wasn't going to bother and so kept telegraphing it back to Low and others in defence hoping for them to bail him out without even trying to be forward minded, while relying on Kadji to show any enterprise and running in midfield. At times it looked like he was either not moving or deliberately hiding behind opponents and leaving the rest to it. Even if that's just a product of his pace and age, it was shocking, the bloke is completely finished.

It's all very nice that he's a fan and I hope he goes on to be a decent coach for the club, but I'm struggling to think of a decent performance since he's been here and that effort yesterday was embarassing.

[Beni71]

Due to the CB injury crisis he’s had an opportunity, but I’m sure NP said a month ago he was a long way off making the squad (think it was after he scored the winner for the u21s).

Sykes gave him no cover and there was a massive gap between Klose and most of the time he was caught in no man’s land. Any confidence he had evaporated after his individual error.
 

 

[Numero Uno]

6 hours ago, marcofisher said:

Players have to be given a chance to step up, just like Scott and Conway have done when given a chance. Seen so many ridiculous posts accusing NP of throwing him under the bus when in reality he has been given the chance to show what he is about in a fairly insignificant cup.

Just goes to show that you can look mustard in the slightly more relaxed setting of a training game but it's no substitute for the real thing. Of our genuine "Academy" players (i.e. not Scott) Conway is light years ahead of everyone else in terms of mentality. The kid doesn't have any fear and just goes out and does what he's always done (and I've seen what he's done at Academy level since he was a very young lad).......the only difference being he does the same things at a lot higher level. Yet he was never really the one that people were raving about at younger Academy level. That was Towler. He's heard groans from the crowd when he's done something daft on the ball, but it hasn't phased him at all. Not many young lads have that mentality which is why many either don't or have to go the longer route to make it.

[extonsred]

7 hours ago, David Brent said:

Sykes didn’t help him out much either.

 

That was Big challenge for Low....he was left so exposed with no-one near him to encourage, support and cover him.

[Bris Red]

Cleary not good enough yet is he, needs some loan time in League 1 and hopefully he comes back in a year or so more ready.

[Sir Geoff]

7 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

This isn’t a post slating Joe Low.

The point here is watching the game I recall the following:

Minute One: Ball comes to Low, big hoof up the pitch

Just after first goal: skinned by winger. Let him run past, didn’t engage or make a tackle

Multiple poor touches and pressured

The obvious error

The booking. It was telegraphed - touch was poor and gave the opportunity for the Lincoln player. Joe banged the turf in frustration afterwards - he knew he was having a mare.

So, my question is twofold:

- Did Pearson make a rick by leaving him on past 15 minutes, it was clear he was gone before then

- How much responsibility is specifically on Klose and King as senior pros - I don’t think they helped him much when it was clear that he was gone - did anyone else see it that way?

 

Pearson said afterwards that Low was taken off to protect him and pointed out that he had no help from senior pros. Also stated there was a reason Andy King ended up at CB instead of an experienced centre back obviously referring to Klose.

[firstdivision]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Low on a yellow too.

Harsh as it is…welcome to proper men’s football Joe.

Only Scott and Conway (eg that goal at Millwall) have looked anything like ready when we’ve played the academy youngsters in the last couple of years. I say ‘only’ - they are excellent young players. But playing in the first team clearly doesn’t make you a first-team player. 

[marcofisher]

In hindsight, this could be really good for Joe. Giving players a chance in the first team, whether they perform or not on their first outing, will give them the boost they need if they are of the right character.

 

He will now know the level he needs to be at and will have that extra bit between his teeth if there was anything about him.

[RedRock]

11 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

In hindsight, this could be really good for Joe. Giving players a chance in the first team, whether they perform or not on their first outing, will give them the boost they need if they are of the right character.

He will now know the level he needs to be at and will have that extra bit between his teeth if there was anything about him.

Agree. 

The tweak to our Academy development path is welcomed and overdue. Give a couple of lads a chance in the First Team every Season, rather than automatically ship them out for endless loans.  

If they can demonstrate the necessary qualities at First Team level keep them in and around the First Team squad. If not, ship them out and hope they develop.

Conway and Scott, last year’s ‘graduates’, show how it can be done. Unfortunately, this year’s graduates appear way off the pace. Disappointing. Let’s hope that other are more prepared to take their chance when it arrives.

[Red-Robbo]

I realise that no player performed well in the first half, but the other defenders had their jobs to do - particularly as they were under continuous pressure due to our invisible midfield.  There's a limit to how far they could 'help out' a player who wasn't getting anything right. 

This was up there with the infamous Towler display that led to him being taken off and loaned out. I think similar might benefit Joe here. It'll be a rude awakening for the lad - and those that felt he was ready. Nerves got the better of him and obviously he is a better player than he showed there. Regular competitive football at a lower league level should bring his confidence back and hone his skills. 

It's clear however that we cannot at present use him to plug any defensive holes that might occur. 

[Taylor10]

Klose & King seem to be getting a fair bit of criticism around Low but am I the only one thinking Sykes is getting an easy ride?

The lack of awareness, support & protection he offered young Joe throughout that turbulent first 20 last night was alarming. Really poor.

[lenred]

2 minutes ago, Taylor10 said:

Klose & King seem to be getting a fair bit of criticism around Low but am I the only one thinking Sykes is getting an easy ride?

The lack of awareness, support & protection he offered young Joe throughout that turbulent first 20 last night was alarming. Really poor.

Sykes has been a glaring problem area for a long stretch now imho.   It’s really frustrating to watch the amount of space on that right side every single game.    Obviously Wilson being injured has given him more exposure than was planned in the first team. It’s a big step up for him from League 1 so it’s not a huge slight on him personally and he’ll improve I’m sure but he could do with taking a blow.  Trouble is, who comes in for him. 

[bearded_red]

It was obvious from very early on that he needed to go off and the only issue was whether Pearson wanted to keep him on until half time to not embarrass him. Personally felt the sub needed to be made as soon as he got the yellow as he was so far off the level he was likely to get a second. It was also evident that players were not trusting him enough to pass him the ball, even when in acres of space.

As others have also commented though, Mark Sykes. Dreadful. I can deal with him not being a great player. But my god. The half hearted running, the backing out of any 50/50, the lack of desire to head a ball, the absolute refusal to show any ambition in possession. I’d previously thought he was just playing above his level in the championship, but we played a League 1 team last night and he was still miles away.

Edited November 9, 2022 by bearded_red

[Steve Watts]

13 minutes ago, Taylor10 said:

Klose & King seem to be getting a fair bit of criticism around Low but am I the only one thinking Sykes is getting an easy ride?

The lack of awareness, support & protection he offered young Joe throughout that turbulent first 20 last night was alarming. Really poor.

Sykes has been given a fair bit of leeway because he was signed as a midfielder, not a right wing back. He started off very well, but the last 5 or 6 games has shown that he is a player playing out of position. Like you say, his lack of awareness fails to protect the defence sufficiently and in all honesty his application is now being called into question. That first goal last night resulted from him backing out of what should have been a routine clearance. Instead he just stood there, the ball was laid out wide, pulled back and shot into the net. Tanner has to return to the side for the Rotherham match in his place. What I would say is that it's unfair to make a judgment on him before we've seen him in his natural position.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Steve Watts

[RedRock]

1 minute ago, lenred said:

Sykes has been a glaring problem area for a long stretch now imho.   It’s really frustrating to watch the amount of space on that right side every single game.    Obviously Wilson being injured has given him more exposure than was planned in the first team. It’s a big step up for him from League 1 so it’s not a huge slight on him personally and he’ll improve I’m sure but he could do with taking a blow.  Trouble is, who comes in for him. 

I think Pearson has taken a very pragmatic view to setting up the team. Play people you can trust and build a formation around them and create a team ethos.

Last night may well prove be a big turning point in the Season. I don’t believe he feels he can now ‘trust’ the likes of Sykes, Martin, King anymore, possibly even Jay, Klose and Semenyo. All these have put in way too many sub-par performances and can’t even get the basics of their jobs right. 

I think we might be down to no more than 10-11 who he can have confidence in. So, suspect, formation will now be adapted but we’re down to the absolute bones of a team. Worrying times.

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, RedRock said:

I think Pearson has taken a very pragmatic view to setting up the team. Play people you can trust and build a formation around them and create a team ethos.

Last night may well prove be a big turning point in the Season. I don’t believe he feels he can now ‘trust’ the likes of Sykes, Martin, King anymore, possibly even Jay, Klose and Semenyo. All these have put in way too many sub-par performances and can’t even get the basics of their jobs right. 

I think we might be down to no more than 10-11 who he can have confidence in. So, suspect, formation will now be adapted but we’re down to the absolute bones of a team. Worrying times.

Semenyo will be fine after the World Cup when he is playing to **** off.