STEVE COTTERILL?

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

People often scoff at the offers made for Andre Gray as unrealistic - however I’d hazard a guess investing £9m at the time on a striker like Gray, would have been far more beneficial then the money wasted with Little Lee over the next few years 

Obviously this is all a bit unknown / speculation, but the story was we had Gray already agreed at £4-4.5m, and then went to £6m after it fell apart, and he then went to Burnley.  Re Gayle, it was something like £6m plus £3m in add-ons.  Maguire was around the £2m mark.

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

The culture when LJ came in did change. Ashton came in within days of Cotterill went and LJ was given money that SC never was. Wilbo said as much on a poddy! Steve always felt he wasn’t given the finances that LJ was. Which is undoubtedly true. 

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Ashton was formally announced within days, but had returned in December to start plotting the exit of Cotts.

From BBC:

Very cleverly worded “first half of 2014”…sounds like he was responsible for Korey, Mark, Luke, Luke, Aaron, Wade and Kieran.  And he got a lot of kudos for something he had nothing to do with.  That summer recruitment (second half of 2014???) was Burt and Cotts, no Shitas Touch from Ashton.

 

 

I don’t want Cotts back, but I bloody loved him.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Davefevs

[REDOXO]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Obviously this is all a bit unknown / speculation, but the story was we had Gray already agreed at £4-4.5m, and then went to £6m after it fell apart, and he then went to Burnley.  Re Gayle, it was something like £6m plus £3m in add-ons.  Maguire was around the £2m mark.

Ashton was formally announced within days, but had returned in December to start plotting the exit of Cotts.

From BBC:

Very cleverly worded “first half of 2014”…sounds like he was responsible for Korey, Mark, Luke, Luke, Aaron, Wade and Kieran.  And he got a lot of kudos for something he had nothing to do with.  That summer recruitment (second half of 2014???) was Burt and Cotts, no Shitas Touch from Ashton.

 

 

I don’t want Cotts back, but I bloody loved him.

I would have him back in a heartbeat if he was available and we needed a manager. No one better than him for this situation in my opinion

However it’s more likely we would employ the devil himself before SC, sadly. 

[CodeRed]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

"Obviously this is all a bit unknown / speculation, but the story was we had Gray already agreed at £4-4.5m, and then went to £6m after it fell apart, and he then went to Burnley.  Re Gayle, it was something like £6m plus £3m in add-ons.  Maguire was around the £2m mark."

 

The story was it was Guy (can't remember his surname) who went back to Hull and Brentford and offered them less than Cotts had agreed - trying to be the tough negotiator and get an improved deal. The clubs weren't impressed and told him to do one and the prices increased as they were being messed around. Cotts was furious when he returned from holiday.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The only concern I have with the Maguire and Gray deals that never were, would be was it possible that it could have tipped us over £13m in FFP losses for that season at the prices agreed therefore an embargo applicable in January 2017? That 1 year rule was still in place at that time. Believe it is arguable either way.

Another critique I have is, could Cotts have shown a bit more patience and pragmatism in that season knowing that greater revenue streams will be heading his way in 2016-17, still a Championship club- redevelopment finishes therefore more money to spend. Instead that fell into the lap of Lee Johnson, he benefited from that growth in matchday and commercial revenue but had Cotts shown more patience he may have got it.

[Andy082005]

50 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Obviously this is all a bit unknown / speculation, but the story was we had Gray already agreed at £4-4.5m, and then went to £6m after it fell apart, and he then went to Burnley.  Re Gayle, it was something like £6m plus £3m in add-ons.  Maguire was around the £2m mark.

Ashton was formally announced within days, but had returned in December to start plotting the exit of Cotts.

From BBC:

Very cleverly worded “first half of 2014”…sounds like he was responsible for Korey, Mark, Luke, Luke, Aaron, Wade and Kieran.  And he got a lot of kudos for something he had nothing to do with.  That summer recruitment (second half of 2014???) was Burt and Cotts, no Shitas Touch from Ashton.

 

 

I don’t want Cotts back, but I bloody loved him.

Interested to know your thoughts currently on Pearson Dave 

I’ve been very vocal around Pearson, however this is the first time in his tenure where I feel he is losing the dressing room, and control of the team. Even the senior players seem mythed …. Weimann yesterday summed it up for me.
 

I can remember when we were coming to the end of the Millen and O’Driscoll era and it’s all feeling all to familiar 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Andy082005

[GrahamC]

40 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

"Obviously this is all a bit unknown / speculation, but the story was we had Gray already agreed at £4-4.5m, and then went to £6m after it fell apart, and he then went to Burnley.  Re Gayle, it was something like £6m plus £3m in add-ons.  Maguire was around the £2m mark."

 

The story was it was Guy (can't remember his surname) who went back to Hull and Brentford and offered them less than Cotts had agreed - trying to be the tough negotiator and get an improved deal. The clubs weren't impressed and told him to do one and the prices increased as they were being messed around. Cotts was furious when he returned from holiday.

John Pelling was the bloke who allegedly tried to re-negotiate deals already done & was told to eff off.

He left fairly shortly after but it set the tone for the season, pretty sure by season’s start we’d only brought in Kodjia & Ryan Fredericks & the latter had left again after a month.

Edited December 27, 2022 by GrahamC

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

"Obviously this is all a bit unknown / speculation, but the story was we had Gray already agreed at £4-4.5m, and then went to £6m after it fell apart, and he then went to Burnley.  Re Gayle, it was something like £6m plus £3m in add-ons.  Maguire was around the £2m mark."

 

The story was it was Guy (can't remember his surname) who went back to Hull and Brentford and offered them less than Cotts had agreed - trying to be the tough negotiator and get an improved deal. The clubs weren't impressed and told him to do one and the prices increased as they were being messed around. Cotts was furious when he returned from holiday.

John Pelling!

17 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Interested to know your thoughts currently on Pearson Dave 

I’ve been very vocal around Pearson, however this is the first time in his tenure where I feel he is losing the dressing room, and control of the team. Even the senior players seem mythed …. Weimann yesterday summed it up for me.
 

I can remember when we were coming to the end of the Millen and O’Driscoll era and it’s all feeling all to familiar 

My thoughts:

I’m worried about our league position.

I want Nige to get us to the summer and us still be in the Championship.  Then we re-assess.

I think it is a very dangerous time to be thinking of changing the manager (I’m not btw).  

End of window - reflect on what’s happened.

End of January - new CEO hopefully announced and hopefully in situ.

I do think too many shoot straight for the manager…but I accept that’s what football fans do.

I’d lobe Pearson to come out and say “**** it, I’m gonna do it my way, sod trying to play a system that best fits the players, I’m gonna play a system that I want to play and the players fit into it, or tough shit”.

I think we are beginning to see Pearson start to get tough, and yes, partly because he’s under pressure.  But fans want a tough stance until it actually happens and then they shit themselves at the reality.  That is where I think we are NOW.  And I think many take the easy way out and that is sack the manager, something new will be better.

I think we need to be brave, I really think we need to get behind the team and see where we are at the end of January.  Many will say we need to act now.  Hey-ho.

So there you have it.

[Andy082005]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

John Pelling!

My thoughts:

I’m worried about our league position.

I want Nige to get us to the summer and us still be in the Championship.  Then we re-assess.

I think it is a very dangerous time to be thinking of changing the manager (I’m not btw).  

End of window - reflect on what’s happened.

End of January - new CEO hopefully announced and hopefully in situ.

I do think too many shoot straight for the manager…but I accept that’s what football fans do.

I’d lobe Pearson to come out and say “**** it, I’m gonna do it my way, sod trying to play a system that best fits the players, I’m gonna play a system that I want to play and the players fit into it, or tough shit”.

I think we are beginning to see Pearson start to get tough, and yes, partly because he’s under pressure.  But fans want a tough stance until it actually happens and then they shit themselves at the reality.  That is where I think we are NOW.  And I think many take the easy way out and that is sack the manager, something new will be better.

I think we need to be brave, I really think we need to get behind the team and see where we are at the end of January.  Many will say we need to act now.  Hey-ho.

So there you have it.

My real concern at the minute is his thought process on playing players out of possession. Lots being made of Andy King at centre back but playing Weimann where he is is absolutely criminal - he needs to be playing a more forward role like last year 

Two huge games coming up - I’m dreading it 

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

My real concern at the minute is his thought process on playing players out of possession. Lots being made of Andy King at centre back but playing Weimann where he is is absolutely criminal - he needs to be playing a more forward role like last year 

Two huge games coming up - I’m dreading it 

The issue with Weimann in the no10 is how exposed the other two in midfield are as a result.

And i think it’s kinda why I said what I said above about saying “**** it”.  He’s said he likes a front two with one in behind….go back to it then!  He likes a back 4…go and do it then.  Admittedly he’s then got to pick a midfield!

Two big games indeed.

Here’s my team (I hate doing these)

O’Leary

Tanner | Atkinson | Naismith | Pring

Scott | James | Massengo

Weimann

Conway | Wells

[Bris Red]

5 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

People often scoff at the offers made for Andre Gray as unrealistic - however I’d hazard a guess investing £9m at the time on a striker like Gray, would have been far more beneficial then the money wasted with Little Lee over the next few years 

Indeed. We’d have more than likely sold Andre Gray for a substantial profit  aswell - unlike most of LJ and Ashton’s signings who were signed for big money and are being allowed to walk out the door for free as nobody wants them.

[Spike]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I guess him and Keith Burt were the Lg1 equivalent of Pearson / Walsh (and Mackenzie) in terms of talent spotting.  And they spotted good players for the Champ too…just didn’t sign them (Gray / Maguire)!

I don't think it was good fault that he never signed him, Burnley got him for £6m, we offered £9m. Ultimately it came down to Grey had played for the Burnley manager previously and wanted to play for him again. I mean even without hindsight we were not his best option and Burnley did better than we did. 

Sometimes it's not about being the better manager or better club, it's other factors that the player focuses on. They had the bargaining tool of a manager he liked and wanted to play for, the rest is history. 

[Red-Robbo]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The issue with Weimann in the no10 is how exposed the other two in midfield are as a result.

And i think it’s kinda why I said what I said above about saying “**** it”.  He’s said he likes a front two with one in behind….go back to it then!  He likes a back 4…go and do it then.  Admittedly he’s then got to pick a midfield!

Two big games indeed.

Here’s my team (I hate doing these)

O’Leary

Tanner | Atkinson | Naismith | Pring

Scott | James | Massengo

Weimann

Conway | Wells

 

Liking the line-up - well, not liking, but it is the best we can achieve. 

I might be tempted to bring Bents back, assuming he isn't imminently about to depart. I seem to remember when he got dropped in the past, he was excellent when he got his place back. Just gets complacent when not challenged. 

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Spike said:

I don't think it was good fault that he never signed him, Burnley got him for £6m, we offered £9m. Ultimately it came down to Grey had played for the Burnley manager previously and wanted to play for him again. I mean even without hindsight we were not his best option and Burnley did better than we did. 

Sometimes it's not about being the better manager or better club, it's other factors that the player focuses on. They had the bargaining tool of a manager he liked and wanted to play for, the rest is history. 

Don’t get me wrong, once Pelling has interrupted the deal, it allowed Brentford to seek other buyers.  We were never gonna get him over Burnley, once they’d shown interest….even if we’d offered £9m!

[Cityboy1954]

7 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

My real concern at the minute is his thought process on playing players out of possession. Lots being made of Andy King at centre back but playing Weimann where he is is absolutely criminal - he needs to be playing a more forward role like last year 

Two huge games coming up - I’m dreading it 

Yes weinmann 22 goals and hd olays him right back :laugh:

[Cityboy1954]

10 hours ago, GrahamC said:

No, he didn’t but this is a pretty selective way to look at it.

He consistently chose Joe Bryan over Cunningham, Wes Burns was a regular in his squad for a fair while, Reid once we went up.

When Cotterill took over we were bottom four in L1, not exactly the best time to blood kids.

The next season was our sole title winning one in 60 years, the team virtually picked itself & we steamrollered everyone.

The following season we brought in Kodjia & no one else, struggled big time with the step up & I suppose he could have put someone apart from Burns or Reid in the squad but it would have been token stuff.

As has been posted above Cotterill wanted to move at a pace much faster than SL did, the latter (who didn’t want him in the first place) lost patience with poor results & brought in his prodigal son, who didn’t pick any kids that season either, by the way..

Best football we ever watched since Dicks and cooper with cotts .