Reflection

[robinforlife2]

Whilst it can be agreed that a point away at Millwall is a sound result. It was of course a better performance, the team whilst looking nervy in the first half, held out and in the second half had 2/3 chances to win it.

One could argue in the final 20 minutes we should have won it, and that Nahki coming on gave us a lift and we looked the more likely winners.

However, we have been here many times before.

It always seems to me, that when the pressure is on, and a result is fundamentally needed to "appease" the fans, we get one. It was no different to prior to West Brom, there was a lot of unhappiness in areas of the fan base and then we won 2-0. However this was followed with 2 defeats and a draw.

The pressure again seem to be boiling after the humiliation against Lincoln, and it was muted a thrashing against Watford, may have spelled the end. However a draw against Watford prior to the World Cup break again seemed to ease pressure, and the comeback win against Rotherham, seemed to settle some nerves and reassure those "backing" Pearson they were right to do so.

However fast forward two defeats on the bounce, comments of "players I can trust" and again the fan base started to turn.

So then we have last night, a result I kind of expected, in a scrappy game where on the balance of it, neither team deserved to lose.

The Pearson stay brigade feel justified, they have seem promise and a performance and feel he is the right man for the job, but is it possibly just a co-incidence that every time the pressure cooker starts to step up, the team pull out a needed result, but its all forgotten a few days later.

Whilst I have been very vocal that I feel Pearson is not the right man to take us forward, I am not so pig ignorant that I feel if he gets the team playing CONSISTENTLY better, that he shouldn't be given the opportunity.

Many feel last nights team selection shows he knows what he was doing, others may argue that he should have been playing that team or close to that team week in week out, and its poor tactical skills which has seem him playing square pegs in round holes and last night was the first time he tried round pegs in round holes in quite some time.

Others will say that he was right to drop Atkinson and bringing him back in shows his treatment of him was correct and it had worked, whilst it could of course be said, that we threw away our last two games and any chance of points by Pearson leaving a defender out and playing an attacking midfielder in defence.

All things said, but for me, last night papers over the cracks, for the third time this season (West Brom away, Watford at home, and now Millwall away). Nothing in my mind has changed, that we have a manager who is unable to get a team which by all standards has a number of players capable at this level picking up wins, or playing consistently to a level where its not a case that any BCFC could turn up.

Then there is the treatment of players, which may work now and again, but can only surely cause rifts in the long run.

For all people say we have been unlucky not to have picked up 8/10 points more this season and had we done that, people would be delighted, this is one of the most stupid suggestions going. The facts are we haven't picked up 8/10 points more, because we have failed to take advantage in games when we were in the ascendency, and sloppy mistakes often by playing players of out their natural position has caused us to lose or draw games we might have won. This isn't being unlucky, it is poor decision making and game management and whilst some times this can sit with the players, it has to be reflected by the manager.

A defeat to Coventry on Sunday would mean last nights draw is immaterial as it would confirm that we are a team that can fail to deliver week in week out, what we need to do, and its easy to say hang on we've not lost yet, but we seldom follow up a good game with another good game.

Pearson still lingers around the 28% win rate, a strike rate that would have seen the axe fall long before, but our position and financial status has probably given him more grace than many others will have got.

Even Johnson who went on massive winless runs, acquired better win ratios.

People seem to think money is the answer and that when Pearson has some to spend he can recruit savy and get us in a prominent position, but already we have seen that most of the players signed by Pearson haven't actually done that good. Of the 3 has beens from Leicester, one has done well, two haven't and one is here for coaching reasons and the other has been bombed out. We have recruited from lower leagues and although Tanner and Atkinson have been OK, Sykes, and Wilson don't really look up to it.

Perhaps Kal Naismith is his golden signing, but the fact is, he hasn't actually recruited that well with what he has recruited, so what makes people think that suddenly more money means better recruitment. This is one thing I fail to understand. If you are poor at something, giving someone more opportunity doesn't mean you get better. 

It's a bit like being a gambler, who loses £10-15 every Saturday, but they get close to winning. It doesn't mean if you give them £200 to bet with, they will suddenly start winning. The more likely scenario is actually a bigger flop.

One would argue if you can't recruit well with no money, you wont recruit well with money, and I personally buy into this theory. 

Now whilst I have said I think Pearson's time should be up, I would like to see him do a few things that could help me understand why we are proceeding to stick with him;

1 - Play the best team in the right positions every week

2 - Admit Chris Martin, Andy King are not good enough at this level any more, and not use them anymore

3- Bring Massengo back into the squad. He may not be likely to sign a new deal, and he may not be first choice, but there are not 18 better options than him, if he leaves for free at the end of the season, so be it. At least make the most of him, whilst he is here.

4 - Quickly understand that Nahki Wells is our best striker, it should be him and one other, not a case of Nahki as an impact sub. It doesn't work that way. Nahki and Tommy or Nahki and Antoine, one of the other to come off the bench. We will not score goals without Nahki on the pitch.

5 - Quit playing Weimann or Scott at right wing back, neither are right wing backs, and you have signed players to play in this position. 

But finally we need some consistency on the pitch. 

A draw at Millwall is all well and good, but if you lose your next 2 games, it is just groundhog day.

I am not expecting us to win or draw every week, but I am sick of no consistency and it feels like the only time we get a result is when his job is actually under fire.

Coventry (A), Birmingham (H), Blackburn (H), Huddersfield (A) and Preston (H) are our next five games. We all know that Blackburn should be tough, but they have lost 4 of their last 5 and have dropped away from the autos because of it, it's even had their fans getting itchy feet on the manager. But Birmingham, Coventry, Huddersfield and Preston are all no better than lower mid table to relegation candidates this season and Preston have also lost 4 out of their last 5. Coventry have won 1 in five, Huddersfield have won their last two so could be finding form, but Birmingham have only won 1 in their last five.

We have five games against teams very similar in form to us, and 4 of the 5 in similar league situations, In my opinion anything less than 7pts from the next 5 games, is not good enough, I would accept 6pts with 1 win, 3 draws and a loss to Blackburn, but this Pearson until the end of January. 

If we are not generating at least 6-7pts from these 5 games, then we will most definitely be in a relegation dog fight going into the next five against Norwich, Wigan, Sunderland, Hull and Cardiff which are five huge games given 3 of them are genuine relegation candidates.

For the moment I am willing to accept giving Nigel the next 5 games, but a defeat on Saturday, and I don't think we should be sticking with him for 2 weeks before our next League game, as it would give the board 2 weeks to find someone who can galvanise the team for a tough second half of the season. 

I know the Pearson fan club, will laugh at this post or make out I'm an anti Pearson and so on, but I want us to succeed and ultimately that means staying up this season. Until Pearson stops heck assing around and puts out a team like he did last night week in week out, we will never get any consistency to more forward on the pitch and regardless of how well a team players.

Its points that determine if you stay up or not, and we find it very hard to pick up 3pts under Pearson, 28% over 2 years is fact of that. 

[David Brent]

I’m sure you put a lot of effort into this…but what is it with fans trying to tell the manager what he needs to do?

[Top Robin]

17 minutes ago, David Brent said:

I’m sure you put a lot of effort into this…but what is it with fans trying to tell the manager what he needs to do?

Poor response from a Pearson fan to a well reasoned and balanced post. Robin did predict that.

[David Brent]

3 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Poor response from a Pearson fan to a well reasoned and balanced post. Robin did predict that.

You’re right. Let’s hope Nigel seeks the help of robinforlife2 before the Coventry game. 

[Son of Fred]

42 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Whilst it can be agreed that a point away at Millwall is a sound result. It was of course a better performance, the team whilst looking nervy in the first half, held out and in the second half had 2/3 chances to win it.

One could argue in the final 20 minutes we should have won it, and that Nahki coming on gave us a lift and we looked the more likely winners.

However, we have been here many times before.

It always seems to me, that when the pressure is on, and a result is fundamentally needed to "appease" the fans, we get one. It was no different to prior to West Brom, there was a lot of unhappiness in areas of the fan base and then we won 2-0. However this was followed with 2 defeats and a draw.

The pressure again seem to be boiling after the humiliation against Lincoln, and it was muted a thrashing against Watford, may have spelled the end. However a draw against Watford prior to the World Cup break again seemed to ease pressure, and the comeback win against Rotherham, seemed to settle some nerves and reassure those "backing" Pearson they were right to do so.

However fast forward two defeats on the bounce, comments of "players I can trust" and again the fan base started to turn.

So then we have last night, a result I kind of expected, in a scrappy game where on the balance of it, neither team deserved to lose.

The Pearson stay brigade feel justified, they have seem promise and a performance and feel he is the right man for the job, but is it possibly just a co-incidence that every time the pressure cooker starts to step up, the team pull out a needed result, but its all forgotten a few days later.

Whilst I have been very vocal that I feel Pearson is not the right man to take us forward, I am not so pig ignorant that I feel if he gets the team playing CONSISTENTLY better, that he shouldn't be given the opportunity.

Many feel last nights team selection shows he knows what he was doing, others may argue that he should have been playing that team or close to that team week in week out, and its poor tactical skills which has seem him playing square pegs in round holes and last night was the first time he tried round pegs in round holes in quite some time.

Others will say that he was right to drop Atkinson and bringing him back in shows his treatment of him was correct and it had worked, whilst it could of course be said, that we threw away our last two games and any chance of points by Pearson leaving a defender out and playing an attacking midfielder in defence.

All things said, but for me, last night papers over the cracks, for the third time this season (West Brom away, Watford at home, and now Millwall away). Nothing in my mind has changed, that we have a manager who is unable to get a team which by all standards has a number of players capable at this level picking up wins, or playing consistently to a level where its not a case that any BCFC could turn up.

Then there is the treatment of players, which may work now and again, but can only surely cause rifts in the long run.

For all people say we have been unlucky not to have picked up 8/10 points more this season and had we done that, people would be delighted, this is one of the most stupid suggestions going. The facts are we haven't picked up 8/10 points more, because we have failed to take advantage in games when we were in the ascendency, and sloppy mistakes often by playing players of out their natural position has caused us to lose or draw games we might have won. This isn't being unlucky, it is poor decision making and game management and whilst some times this can sit with the players, it has to be reflected by the manager.

A defeat to Coventry on Sunday would mean last nights draw is immaterial as it would confirm that we are a team that can fail to deliver week in week out, what we need to do, and its easy to say hang on we've not lost yet, but we seldom follow up a good game with another good game.

Pearson still lingers around the 28% win rate, a strike rate that would have seen the axe fall long before, but our position and financial status has probably given him more grace than many others will have got.

Even Johnson who went on massive winless runs, acquired better win ratios.

People seem to think money is the answer and that when Pearson has some to spend he can recruit savy and get us in a prominent position, but already we have seen that most of the players signed by Pearson haven't actually done that good. Of the 3 has beens from Leicester, one has done well, two haven't and one is here for coaching reasons and the other has been bombed out. We have recruited from lower leagues and although Tanner and Atkinson have been OK, Sykes, and Wilson don't really look up to it.

Perhaps Kal Naismith is his golden signing, but the fact is, he hasn't actually recruited that well with what he has recruited, so what makes people think that suddenly more money means better recruitment. This is one thing I fail to understand. If you are poor at something, giving someone more opportunity doesn't mean you get better. 

It's a bit like being a gambler, who loses £10-15 every Saturday, but they get close to winning. It doesn't mean if you give them £200 to bet with, they will suddenly start winning. The more likely scenario is actually a bigger flop.

One would argue if you can't recruit well with no money, you wont recruit well with money, and I personally buy into this theory. 

Now whilst I have said I think Pearson's time should be up, I would like to see him do a few things that could help me understand why we are proceeding to stick with him;

1 - Play the best team in the right positions every week

2 - Admit Chris Martin, Andy King are not good enough at this level any more, and not use them anymore

3- Bring Massengo back into the squad. He may not be likely to sign a new deal, and he may not be first choice, but there are not 18 better options than him, if he leaves for free at the end of the season, so be it. At least make the most of him, whilst he is here.

4 - Quickly understand that Nahki Wells is our best striker, it should be him and one other, not a case of Nahki as an impact sub. It doesn't work that way. Nahki and Tommy or Nahki and Antoine, one of the other to come off the bench. We will not score goals without Nahki on the pitch.

5 - Quit playing Weimann or Scott at right wing back, neither are right wing backs, and you have signed players to play in this position. 

But finally we need some consistency on the pitch. 

A draw at Millwall is all well and good, but if you lose your next 2 games, it is just groundhog day.

I am not expecting us to win or draw every week, but I am sick of no consistency and it feels like the only time we get a result is when his job is actually under fire.

Coventry (A), Birmingham (H), Blackburn (H), Huddersfield (A) and Preston (H) are our next five games. We all know that Blackburn should be tough, but they have lost 4 of their last 5 and have dropped away from the autos because of it, it's even had their fans getting itchy feet on the manager. But Birmingham, Coventry, Huddersfield and Preston are all no better than lower mid table to relegation candidates this season and Preston have also lost 4 out of their last 5. Coventry have won 1 in five, Huddersfield have won their last two so could be finding form, but Birmingham have only won 1 in their last five.

We have five games against teams very similar in form to us, and 4 of the 5 in similar league situations, In my opinion anything less than 7pts from the next 5 games, is not good enough, I would accept 6pts with 1 win, 3 draws and a loss to Blackburn, but this Pearson until the end of January. 

If we are not generating at least 6-7pts from these 5 games, then we will most definitely be in a relegation dog fight going into the next five against Norwich, Wigan, Sunderland, Hull and Cardiff which are five huge games given 3 of them are genuine relegation candidates.

For the moment I am willing to accept giving Nigel the next 5 games, but a defeat on Saturday, and I don't think we should be sticking with him for 2 weeks before our next League game, as it would give the board 2 weeks to find someone who can galvanise the team for a tough second half of the season. 

I know the Pearson fan club, will laugh at this post or make out I'm an anti Pearson and so on, but I want us to succeed and ultimately that means staying up this season. Until Pearson stops heck assing around and puts out a team like he did last night week in week out, we will never get any consistency to more forward on the pitch and regardless of how well a team players.

Its points that determine if you stay up or not, and we find it very hard to pick up 3pts under Pearson, 28% over 2 years is fact of that. 

What a waste of effort on your behalf.

Nigel is here & staying here -

I can't argue that Nigel can be a stubborn,, grumpy old sod but it's horses for courses & for this particular quagmire we have entered as a result of poor leadership/profligacy, he's our horse.

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Son of Fred

[marcofisher]

Not sure if I agree that Pearson’s signings have all been failures. Wasn’t it said in the other thread he has only made 8 signings? Atkinson, James, Naismith, Tanner are regulars in the side now. Sykes has played a fair bit this season and was only brought in as cover initially one would imagine. Wilson is a very astute signing on paper but has been unlucky with fitness.

 

Simpson and King granted not the best, although King I would argue is only here for cover and experience and has provided that, but I would say that is a pretty good hit rate compared to what we have seen in previous management during our time in the Championship.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 hour ago, David Brent said:

I’m sure you put a lot of effort into this…but what is it with fans trying to tell the manager what he needs to do?

It's a Trust thing.

I think we should drop Nigel for several games / put him in charge of the U21's until he gets his management and  attitude right.

[Bar BS3]

2 hours ago, David Brent said:

I’m sure you put a lot of effort into this…but what is it with fans trying to tell the manager what he needs to do?

I don't think that is unusual of any fan base who's manager has one of the worst records in our very modest history - especially when he makes the team selections, substitutions & plays players out of position, like he regularly does. 

Of course, no manager should ever pander to the opinion of supporters - but when he's making such a hash of the job himself, you can't blame fans for trying to point out the bleedin' obvious, before it's too late and we are relegated, with a squad than imho should at least be comfortably good enough to be well clear of any danger. 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

Whilst it can be agreed that a point away at Millwall is a sound result. It was of course a better performance, the team whilst looking nervy in the first half, held out and in the second half had 2/3 chances to win it.

One could argue in the final 20 minutes we should have won it, and that Nahki coming on gave us a lift and we looked the more likely winners.

However, we have been here many times before.

because we don’t have that great a team / squad.  It needs 9, 10, even all 11 players to function for this team to get a result.

It always seems to me, that when the pressure is on, and a result is fundamentally needed to "appease" the fans, we get one. It was no different to prior to West Brom, there was a lot of unhappiness in areas of the fan base and then we won 2-0. However this was followed with 2 defeats and a draw.

we have no squad depth really and at points this season the inability to freshen up or provide competition to those with the shirt can work against us in maintaining intensity both mentally and physically.  When you look at our bench some games, it’s not that often that you see too much available to makes us better in the last 25-30.

The pressure again seem to be boiling after the humiliation against Lincoln, and it was muted a thrashing against Watford, may have spelled the end. However a draw against Watford prior to the World Cup break again seemed to ease pressure, and the comeback win against Rotherham, seemed to settle some nerves and reassure those "backing" Pearson they were right to do so.

I honestly don’t think any of the games you mention threatened Nige’s position, the only people pushing that are fans and press.  He’s here to do a job, and is doing it, although results on the pitch could be better.  Could the club’s position change?  Yes, but not as we are about to enter a window.  Don’t forget he’s just been communicating decisions re players future.  If the club didn’t see Nige being in charge, he wouldn’t be making those, nor communicating them.

However fast forward two defeats on the bounce, comments of "players I can trust" and again the fan base started to turn.

because they knee-jerk to interviews, just like results.  I didn’t see too much wrong in what he said, maybe a tad OTT.  As fans like in some areas of life, we are quite keen to be offended on others behalf…especially when we don’t know the real goings on.  It’s why I’m quite chilled on lots of stuff, because I am mates with people who do know the insides (not necessarily City) and stuff goes on all the time that nobody gets too worried about!  

So then we have last night, a result I kind of expected, in a scrappy game where on the balance of it, neither team deserved to lose.

The Pearson stay brigade feel justified, they have seem promise and a performance and feel he is the right man for the job, but is it possibly just a co-incidence that every time the pressure cooker starts to step up, the team pull out a needed result, but its all forgotten a few days later.

maybe it’s just inconsistency.  Maybe it’s the continued development of a culture away from cosy club…you don’t change that overnight.  Don’t take this to be anything to do with Johnson, but at least we don’t go on long runs of defeats.  At least we do muster a performance now and again (in your view).  I think we generally play better than you give them credit for, but that about personal opinions.

Whilst I have been very vocal that I feel Pearson is not the right man to take us forward, I am not so pig ignorant that I feel if he gets the team playing CONSISTENTLY better, that he shouldn't be given the opportunity.

this team may begin to reach some consistency when the job is further down the line, new players are brought in.  It’s still in rebuild.  Forget it’s nearly 2 years, this overhaul takes time because there is no money.  We can’t even trade easily, one for one, because players contracts are too high.  Just look at Palmer and Nagy.  Given away just to get their wages gone.  If people can’t recognise the seriousness of that in terms of the mess we are in, then they can’t give full context to their opinion…or at least understand why people like me bleat on about it.  I still feel Nige should be doing a bit better though.  I’m not blinkered.

Many feel last nights team selection shows he knows what he was doing, others may argue that he should have been playing that team or close to that team week in week out, and its poor tactical skills which has seem him playing square pegs in round holes and last night was the first time he tried round pegs in round holes in quite some time.

Others will say that he was right to drop Atkinson and bringing him back in shows his treatment of him was correct and it had worked, whilst it could of course be said, that we threw away our last two games and any chance of points by Pearson leaving a defender out and playing an attacking midfielder in defence.

the paras above are tough to categorically answer.  My view, and that’s all it is, is that Nige maybe stubborn (or maybe experienced in understand what works over a longer term?), but he does what he does for the right reasons.  I honestly think that he’s trying to rebuild Bristol City, not for his own ego.  He’s been ill, he could’ve just jacked it in.  But I think he sees City as a decent club who asked for his help, and he’s giving them his 100% since he’s been asked.  

All things said, but for me, last night papers over the cracks, for the third time this season (West Brom away, Watford at home, and now Millwall away). Nothing in my mind has changed, that we have a manager who is unable to get a team which by all standards has a number of players capable at this level picking up wins, or playing consistently to a level where its not a case that any BCFC could turn up.

a number of players - correct…but not a squad of players capable at this level.

Then there is the treatment of players, which may work now and again, but can only surely cause rifts in the long run.

speculation / agenda based comment.

For all people say we have been unlucky not to have picked up 8/10 points more this season and had we done that, people would be delighted, this is one of the most stupid suggestions going. The facts are we haven't picked up 8/10 points more, because we have failed to take advantage in games when we were in the ascendency, and sloppy mistakes often by playing players of out their natural position has caused us to lose or draw games we might have won.

We should should have more points, but I agree, the facts are we haven’t.  But just because we haven’t, doesn’t mean performances have been crap.  Defeat doesn’t necessarily equal crap performance, just like win doesn’t necessarily equal good performance.

Individual errors have come from players in their rightful positions too.  Tendency to focus too much on who have the goal away not why.  In some cases it may be that lack of familiarity with position that is the reason.

This isn't being unlucky, it is poor decision making and game management and whilst some times this can sit with the players, it has to be reflected by the manager.

Yep, definitely elements of what you say are true.

A defeat to Coventry on Sunday would mean last nights draw is immaterial as it would confirm that we are a team that can fail to deliver week in week out, what we need to do, and its easy to say hang on we've not lost yet, but we seldom follow up a good game with another good game.

firstly no point earned in the championship is immaterial.  In our situation every point is vital, and you can look back over a 46 game season and pick out odd games of value.  Time will tell if last nights was.

you are right, we don’t go back to back often enough…but I think our inconsistency is due to the quality of our squad.  We just don’t have enough players capable of lifting the standards of others.  Some of those capable players are young, and inconsistent themselves.

Pearson still lingers around the 28% win rate, a strike rate that would have seen the axe fall long before, but our position and financial status has probably given him more grace than many others will have got.

As much as I love my numbers and a spreadsheet, I honestly think the ranting on about win percentage is complete bollox (sorry).  At least do points per game if you’re gonna use it at all!!! For my, anyone using it alone (not you, you’ve given lots of other stuff to provoke thought) really doesn’t get it.  Sorry if I offend anyone with that.  The context of the situation we are in has much more bearing.

Even Johnson who went on massive winless runs, acquired better win ratios.

He had a superior squad.  And they were just as inconsistent really.  I’ll move on, Harry’s Myth Busting thread has my thoughts.

People seem to think money is the answer and that when Pearson has some to spend he can recruit savy and get us in a prominent position, but already we have seen that most of the players signed by Pearson haven't actually done that good. Of the 3 has beens from Leicester, one has done well, two haven't and one is here for coaching reasons and the other has been bombed out. We have recruited from lower leagues and although Tanner and Atkinson have been OK, Sykes, and Wilson don't really look up to it.

he’s basically spent money on one player - Atkinson.  Forget piddling compo for Wilson and £275k for Tanner (both for the future) and Bajic.  Atkinson has been a good signing?  No?  A player with one year in the EFL, Nige and the coaches have got him to be firstly Champ capable, and then grown him to be a good performer at this level.  So effing what if he had a few games out.  Don’t forget he was also bought with future in mind, to learn from Baker, but with Kalas injuries too, he’s had to run before he could walk.  No surprise a player in only his second and now third season in the EFL, and second at this level has a non-linear progression line.

Aside from James and Naismith - who’ve both been decent (I like naismith a lot), and Sykes - who’s been mixed, no other player has been signed for anything other than short term / compromise.  That’s Klose, King, Simpson.  Yet fans can’t wait to tar his whole recruitment.  I think it stands up well in the circumstances.

Don’t forget we used to spend £1m plus on punts and not play them.  Atkinson has played 80-90% of games that he’s been available for since he’s been here.

Perhaps Kal Naismith is his golden signing, but the fact is, he hasn't actually recruited that well with what he has recruited, so what makes people think that suddenly more money means better recruitment. This is one thing I fail to understand. If you are poor at something, giving someone more opportunity doesn't mean you get better.

more money doesn’t equal better recruitment, but it gives to a wider net to cast.  Personally I think Scott and Semenyo will still be here come Feb, so any “trading” will be about wages released not fees.

Nige is trying to bring Recruitment up to Championship level.  Hence Tins promotion.

As above I don’t think recruitment has been poor.  He’s signed 3 real players imho and some for the future.  The others were to get us by, without committing to long contracts for other players.

It's a bit like being a gambler, who loses £10-15 every Saturday, but they get close to winning. It doesn't mean if you give them £200 to bet with, they will suddenly start winning. The more likely scenario is actually a bigger flop.

it really isn’t anything like that!

One would argue if you can't recruit well with no money, you wont recruit well with money, and I personally buy into this theory. 

Now whilst I have said I think Pearson's time should be up, I would like to see him do a few things that could help me understand why we are proceeding to stick with him;

1 - Play the best team in the right positions every week he’s explained why he’s done what he’s done. Last night was also a case of rotation due to fixture congestion

2 - Admit Chris Martin, Andy King are not good enough at this level any more, and not use them anymore why?  King has contributed, Martin hasn’t, but until recently they’ve both been in the 18 every week.  If they aren’t good enough, doesn’t that tell you the squad isn’t…contradicts much of yours and others arguments.  We have no depth to just get rid of them.  Martin may well go in this window and hopefully his wages can be used to bring in someone.

3- Bring Massengo back into the squad. He may not be likely to sign a new deal, and he may not be first choice, but there are not 18 better options than him, if he leaves for free at the end of the season, so be it. At least make the most of him, whilst he is here. I would do this too, but it would not surprise me if he drops a pre-contract on RG’s desk on 1st Jan.  It wouldn’t surprise me if the club already know this.

4 - Quickly understand that Nahki Wells is our best striker, it should be him and one other, not a case of Nahki as an impact sub. It doesn't work that way. Nahki and Tommy or Nahki and Antoine, one of the other to come off the bench. We will not score goals without Nahki on the pitch.  you have to rotate.  You want us to press from the front don’t you?

5 - Quit playing Weimann or Scott at right wing back, neither are right wing backs, and you have signed players to play in this position. If they are the right option for a particular game, then I’m sure he’ll do it again.

But finally we need some consistency on the pitch. There’s probably 15-18 clubs in this league crying out for this.  Doesn’t that tell you something?

A draw at Millwall is all well and good, but if you lose your next 2 games, it is just groundhog day.

I am not expecting us to win or draw every week, but I am sick of no consistency and it feels like the only time we get a result is when his job is actually under fire.

Coventry (A), Birmingham (H), Blackburn (H), Huddersfield (A) and Preston (H) are our next five games. We all know that Blackburn should be tough, but they have lost 4 of their last 5 and have dropped away from the autos because of it, it's even had their fans getting itchy feet on the manager. But Birmingham, Coventry, Huddersfield and Preston are all no better than lower mid table to relegation candidates this season and Preston have also lost 4 out of their last 5. Coventry have won 1 in five, Huddersfield have won their last two so could be finding form, but Birmingham have only won 1 in their last five.

I just take each game as it comes.

We have five games against teams very similar in form to us, and 4 of the 5 in similar league situations, In my opinion anything less than 7pts from the next 5 games, is not good enough, I would accept 6pts with 1 win, 3 draws and a loss to Blackburn, but this Pearson until the end of January. 

If we are not generating at least 6-7pts from these 5 games, then we will most definitely be in a relegation dog fight going into the next five against Norwich, Wigan, Sunderland, Hull and Cardiff which are five huge games given 3 of them are genuine relegation candidates.

For the moment I am willing to accept giving Nigel the next 5 games, but a defeat on Saturday, and I don't think we should be sticking with him for 2 weeks before our next League game, as it would give the board 2 weeks to find someone who can galvanise the team for a tough second half of the season.

as above I don’t think the board are thinking of moving him on.  It might take much longer than two weeks to find a new manager willing to come in and pick up this rebuild in its current phase.

I know the Pearson fan club, will laugh at this post or make out I'm an anti Pearson and so on, but I want us to succeed and ultimately that means staying up this season. Until Pearson stops heck assing around and puts out a team like he did last night week in week out, we will never get any consistency to more forward on the pitch and regardless of how well a team players.

Yawn re “Pearson fan club”.  You say you’re not “anti-Pearson” but you lay everything at his door.

I think it’s much more nuanced than simply picking players in positions.  Nige certainly isn’t “heck assing about” in anything he does

Its points that determine if you stay up or not, and we find it very hard to pick up 3pts under Pearson, 28% over 2 years is fact of that.

yet as it stands we are 18th, have more points than the relegation teams, so it’s not quite the doom and gloom you portray.

You’ve put a lot of effort into this, and I have replied to bits above in the best way I can.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Davefevs

[redsquirrel]

i like Sykes, he brings a bit of the jack hunt we lost to the team

[The Swan and Cemetery]

Suspect there’s less disagreement between NP stay/go contingents re on field performances than may appear - think a lot of the disagreement relates to different priorities. Think ‘go’ are more likely to be very focused very on results/first XI outcomes in the here and now, whereas ‘stay’ have more of other aspects coming into thinking (sorting finances etc). Neither approach is de facto right or wrong, but is likely to result in quite different views re NP’s tenure, even if there was 100% agreement re performances. At least that would be my non fully analytical review of OTIB in recent times. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

3 hours ago, David Brent said:

I’m sure you put a lot of effort into this…but what is it with fans trying to tell the manager what he needs to do?

Dunno, mate, but it's been going on for over 100 years now. You ever tell yer missus what she needs to do?

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

It's a Trust thing.

Maybe some posters don’t fully grasp what Nige is getting at when he uses the word ‘trus’.

It means that he can be sure that any player can be relied upon to give a consistent 100% performance and leave nothing on the pitch in every game. 

It’s when they don’t reach the required standards that Nige, quite rightly begins to question their commitment to the game.

[Puckle_red]

47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You’ve put a lot of effort into this, and I have replied to bits above in the best way I can.

Spot on. Almost every point as I see it too. 

I was really disappointed with some of our fans on Boxing Day. I'm in the 'Singing Section' corner...whatever you want to call it. Very little atmosphere throughout the game, until their voices were found near the end to chant about Pearson Out etc. 

As a big Pearson fan, I was really disappointed to see the line up for the WBA game, especially following the Stoke performance and result. But it's all about context, if Pearson had the resources LJ was handed and still getting these results, I'd probably join in, but that isn't the case!

I do feel the supporters have a part to play in improving things for themselves. No, a good atmosphere doesn't guarantee points, but this isn't the first manager in recent times to suggest it might be easier for the players to play away from home. 

Get behind the team boys and girls. COYR! 

[David Brent]

42 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Dunno, mate, but it's been going on for over 100 years now. You ever tell yer missus what she needs to do?

True. I remember the furore on here after the FA cup final.

Young, free and single  

[Red-Robbo]

Nigel put out a more sensible starting line-up, made his subs at a sensible time and earned a very welcome point against a big physical side of the sort we normally struggle against.

If on Boxing Day he hadn't hobbled the side with a squad selection even novices were puzzled by and reacted promptly to our clearly not being able to compete, then there would be less of a clamour for him to go.  Even if we'd lost 0-3 against West Brom, as long as we were going for it and in the game, I think many of us would have accepted a predictable defeat by a good side whose morale is sky high. 

Many of Lee's defeats came when he tried to be just a bit too clever, a bit too experimental. Play players to their strengths, in their preferred positions, keep it simple, points will ensue.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

30 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Maybe some posters don’t fully grasp what Nige is getting at when he uses the word ‘trus’.

It means that he can be sure that any player can be relied upon to give a consistent 100% performance and leave nothing on the pitch in every game. 

It’s when they don’t reach the required standards that Nige, quite rightly begins to question their commitment to the game.

     It's when the manager doesn't reach the required standards that the fans, quite rightly begins to question his value to the club.

It's a two way street in respect of trust.

 

[1960maaan]

4 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

Whilst I have been very vocal that I feel Pearson is not the right man to take us forward,

I think you'll find a fair few of those you say are backing Pearson , agree with you on this point. But it's from where we move forward.
We have no money to spend or pay Compensation, so we won't get a "Name" manager anywhere near the status of NP.
We will not get a good up and coming Manager as we have no money to spend and are currently not an exciting prospect.
We could get lucky with a Wild Card appointment, but we haven't got lucky except for Cotts in the last 10 or so ?
There are many things I don't particularly like about his decisions and choices, but I think he has done an important job, which isn't finished.
IMO , I think we get through to the summer and safety . Then I really think NP's position will be at least looked at and more likely moved out or up. Then we look for someone to take us forward.
Potentially we could have a big turnover in the squad , the next man could get some reasonable money to set us up for next year.
But lets not underplay how much the Club has changed under Pearson's guidance. 

[Maltshoveller]

4 hours ago, David Brent said:

I’m sure you put a lot of effort into this…but what is it with fans trying to tell the manager what he needs to do?

Lots of posters on here think at because they watch a lot of football 

they think they now more about the game than the manager and could do a better job

Bit like me watching loads of planes landing and taking off from Bristol airport and thinking

i could just jump into the pilots seat and fly one!!!!

[redsquirrel]

7 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

Lots of posters on here think at because they watch a lot of football 

they think they now more about the game than the manager and could do a better job

Bit like me watching loads of planes landing and taking off from Bristol airport and thinking

i could just jump into the pilots seat and fly one!!!!

or watched all 10 series of doc martin and taker yer misses tonsils out

[aa_bcfc]

28 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

     It's when the manager doesn't reach the required standards that the fans, quite rightly begins to question his value to the club.

It's a two way street in respect of trust.

 

Absolutely spot on. 

[Robbored]

41 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

     It's when the manager doesn't reach the required standards that the fans, quite rightly begins to question his value to the club.

It's a two way street in respect of trust.

 

That’s debatable. Any manager holds all the cards when in comes selection. A player doesn’t have to trust the manager to perform at the required standard.

[Davefevs]

43 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

or watched all 10 series of doc martin and taker yer misses tonsils out

Oh, should I not have done that then!

[Port Said Red]

47 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

or watched all 10 series of doc martin and taker yer misses tonsils out

Can you not let this lie? I have apologized to her at least 100 times. 

Thanks Dave 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Port Said Red

[robinforlife2]

1 hour ago, Maltshoveller said:

Lots of posters on here think at because they watch a lot of football 

they think they now more about the game than the manager and could do a better job

Bit like me watching loads of planes landing and taking off from Bristol airport and thinking

i could just jump into the pilots seat and fly one!!!!

There is a lot of difference in watching planes to flying one, now had you sat in the cockpit for ten years observing and so on, there is a chance you could have a better placed understanding, so I think it's a poor anology.

By the same token, to be a good manager at something doesn't mean you needed to be good at that sport. You can watch a lot of football and some to assessments of players who play well and so on, who they link up well with, what sort of player the club has been missing. That's not to say you would be a brilliant manager but by the same token you might have ideas or understands which could be beneficial.

In my job, I had no practical or academic involvement in it, but I am now in a consultancy role, which means I go to places and advise what people want and so on. This has come from years of being a guinea pig in a situation which has led to me being asked what they are doing right or wrong in this sphere. So by your token, because I spent years watching and being a guinea pig, you feel my input would not be very good, however it has led to me having a job where I now advise people on what is needed and I analyse what they are doing.

I don't pretend to say I am a better football manager than big Nige, I mean I wouldn't kick a ball 10 yards if I tried, I would toe poke it left right and centre and I would not be good enough for a pub league team, but that doesn't mean I can't read players, situations, and so on, and use that judgement to forge an opinion when something or someone is doing it wrong.

 

I have just read Devsfavs response to my OP, and I appreciate Dev as he is someone who attacks the post and not the poster, too often people resort in getting personal, rather than what people post, which is why I value his opinion, I may not agree with it, but I value it.

He say's one thing I don't agree on and that's quite simple, 

4 - Quickly understand that Nahki Wells is our best striker, it should be him and one other, not a case of Nahki as an impact sub. It doesn't work that way. Nahki and Tommy or Nahki and Antoine, one of the other to come off the bench. We will not score goals without Nahki on the pitch.  you have to rotate.  You want us to press from the front don’t you?

This is where I differ from most fans. Whilst many are happy to be entertained even if we get beat, as I said last night, I would rather it be ugly and scrappy and win 1-0 or draw 0-0, as there is only one thing that keeps you in this league and that's getting points.

If our team is too fragile and unable to play the press from the front, then no I do not want us to press from the front.

I would be happy if we went out and played dirty with cynical challenges, a few leg breakers here and there to get teams on edge thinking Jesus this guys gonna tear me in half I aint getting close to him. The fact is our squad can't play week in week out trying to play this press from the front, it gets too many injuries and players don't see out 90 minutes, and that is part the reason, why we have a better first half record than second half record.

So no, I don't want us to play in a manner where it means we get more injuries, players are knackered after 70 minutes and we've not got the squad to replace them on the bench. If anything the constant trying to play to a way we don't have the luxury of players to support is partly why we are where we are in the table.

 

I respect Nige likes his 3-5-2 / 5-3-2 but we don't have the side to cover it, we don't have a squad to implement and we don't exactly have a physically strong squad.

But we have some players who can be demanding and a nuisance and get under players skin, and this is what we should be doing, plus playing a bit tough at the back. There is nothing wrong with a few dirty challenges to get a team on edge. It works for so many teams in this league and I don't get why we don't do it. You gain nothing for being a nice club or soft. 

So I would rather we won ulgy / dirty call it what you like.

I would rather results than entertainment, which is why I would not be adverse to a Warnock type manager.

We've tried pretty football for so long and its got us nowhere.

Now I know the main reason I want Pearson gone, it's mainly on I don't think he is a terribly nice person. I mean I liked Gary Johnson, I liked Cotts, I even liked Lee Johnson, but I have never warmed to Nige, the same way I never warmed to S'OD.

I guess this makes me be more judgemental, but I don't like the way Nige comes across.

To me and it may just be me, but I feel he sees this football club as a club who are lucky to have him. like he is better than us, and he is doing us a favour being here, and that he is the all singing and dancing and has to have sorted out the mess, and he feels no one else of his calibre would have wanted to. With this I think he has this hard persona and therefore nothing is ever his fault, it's like we are fortunate to have him.

I might be on my own with this opinion, but I have never seen him come across as gracious, passionate, spirited and his praise for the fans now and again feels like he says it because he is pushed into saying it and not that he means it.

Maybe he just has a cold persona, and is not a people person, but to me he comes across as very arrogant and like he thinks he is bigger than the club, and I think its because of this, I want him gone.

Some of the sly digs he has, some of the comments re fans, players and so on, to many may seem innocent, but I think it's his personality. 

I get the impression he doesn't give a rats about the club, and he is just picking up his pay packet, which wont be a small one. He will blame everything going on around him at the club and he has never once actually taken responsibility for the awful tactics and shocking performances, and always has someone to blame.

If he came out and actually said I got it wrong, I made the wrong decisions, I could probably accept that, as its the truth, but I genuinely feel he thinks he is bigger than the club.

Maybe I am seeing too much, or over thinking, but when your Pep, Klopp, Mourinho etc you can afford to be arrogant, because you get results, you win things and you have proven you perhaps are bigger than your club and they are lucky to have you, but when you carry that air of arrogance, yet on the pitch you're failing for me, you make yourself unlikeable and you will lose support of some quickly.

I also think too much has been made of the financial situation, and comparing to LJ and the war chest he had. I actually think Covid has changed football, the fees arent being paid like they were and it is now harder to move on players as every club is feeling the strain. The deals LJ made mirrored a lot of clubs pre covid and had it not been for the pandemic, we would have probably sold another player for good money and the whole buy to try and make profit model may have continued. I don't think it's fair that LJ is blamed for a model he was being asked to follow and pushed into the direction of. He made signings such as Massengo, Diedhiou and others who were expected to be sold on for profit to fund the next players in. I don't think it's fair to blame him for what transpired, when it was a directive the club was asking him to take. He was of course identifying players, it was the recruitment team who agreed their wages and so on.

I also felt with GJ, SCotts and LJ that we looked a good side, I felt there was times when we could beat anyone and felt we were on the cusp of something. I am not saying had we stuck with LJ we wouldn't be where we are now, but I will also say, I wasn't calling for his head when he was sacked, as I actually felt and do still feel, LJ was a good manager for us, I feel it was a case of the right man at the wrong time. I actually think LJ is a good manager, I think it should be noted the foundations of the side Sunderland have which are in the playoff zone in the Championship now are core Lee Johnson signings. He also had them high enough in the table to be challenging for automatic promotion when he was relieved of his duties. He had a 51% win rate at Sunderland and I dare say his sacking was a shade unjust. The team he was building has not had huge change to the team that now sit 4th in the Championship. I don't think that is a surprise. 
I also think he is doing a decent job at Hibbs. In a league where you can't compete with the top 2, he has taken over one of the poorer clubs who have struggled for seasons on end, and whilst they aren't doing brilliant in the league in 8th, he is doing better than where they were in recent seasons and he is building a young competent side.

I feel Johnson was unfortunate to have his time here with MA, I think LJ is a good coach, I actually think he is good at identifying talent and I think he plays good attacking football and I think he is very knowledgeable. I personally would not be adverse to him having another go with us in the future, but I wouldn't want him right now as I think its too soon , but I do think there is a case of unfinished business and I do think we looked a better side under Johnson than we do under Pearson.

I don't know who can steady the ship, who can help us progress.

Last month I wrote a long piece about why I would look at John Aloisi, a 46 yo manager who has worked wonders on a shoestring budget at Western United, has the team matching top teams, has given youth a chance played top flight football in England, represented his country in a World Cup, and has caught the eye in the A League in not only the miraculous job he has done at Western United, but in the way he turned around a failing cash strapped Brisbane Roar and also turned around the youth development at Melbourne Victory which has led to several youth players breaking into the first time and the Socceroos.

People wont of heard of him unless you follow the A League, but here is a manager who took the team tipped for bottom place and no money to even attempt to buy a marquee player, to winning the A League last season, and despite losing his best players and having no money to replace them has continued to develop players. Having had a rough start to the season, they even went 80 minutes with 10 players to win the other day in a game they were tipped to lose and have won 3 and drawn 1 of their last 5, and the new youth he has promoted is now geling and I am sure Western United will be up there again at the business end.

This is a manager who has had to work with youth, no budget, makes teams hard to beat, can identify talent and has won a league title with a team tipped for bottom place. A manager who in his first role as a manager obtained a 40% win rate, and struggled for personal reasons before leaving the game on a poor season. After 18 months out and working back in youth football, he returned to have a 38% win rate in 3 and half years at a club tipped for mid table , yet got them top 4, 2 years running and then since joining the smallest club in the league has won a league title and has a 49% win rate.

Now John Aloisi, may not be a name many know about, but everyone keeps asking who?

Who could work on no budget, work with youth, help a club through a transition and build a club to win something.

Why not a man, who has transformed 2 of the biggest youth set ups in Australia, took a bottom of the league Brisbane Roar to be a top 4 team, then took on another bottom of the league cash strapped club and over 2 years made them A League champions, all on a budget where he couldn't even sign one marquee player ! Had to use youth and had his best players sold underneath him every season, whilst still getting results.

A manager who can work on a nothing budget, get teams playing good football and has a 49% win rate in his current role at the team with the least money in their league.

Because he is a manager of a team in a league people don't really know and all that, people will laugh at the suggestion, but he is exactly the sort of manager we need.

He is a winner, he can work on a shoestring budget, can recruit well, and can transform teams. He is 46 and no dinosaur, he played at the highest level, albeit not for the biggest clubs and he represented his country at the highest level.

He is the sort of appointment that wouldn't stand out, but like GJ, like Cotts, he is the sort of manager who knows how to do a job, and I genuinely believe if Lansdown went out and poached him from Western United, not only would we stay up this season, but he'll build a team that within 3 years would be in the premier league. 

[lenred]

38 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

There is a lot of difference in watching planes to flying one, now had you sat in the cockpit for ten years observing and so on, there is a chance you could have a better placed understanding, so I think it's a poor anology.

By the same token, to be a good manager at something doesn't mean you needed to be good at that sport. You can watch a lot of football and some to assessments of players who play well and so on, who they link up well with, what sort of player the club has been missing. That's not to say you would be a brilliant manager but by the same token you might have ideas or understands which could be beneficial.

In my job, I had no practical or academic involvement in it, but I am now in a consultancy role, which means I go to places and advise what people want and so on. This has come from years of being a guinea pig in a situation which has led to me being asked what they are doing right or wrong in this sphere. So by your token, because I spent years watching and being a guinea pig, you feel my input would not be very good, however it has led to me having a job where I now advise people on what is needed and I analyse what they are doing.

I don't pretend to say I am a better football manager than big Nige, I mean I wouldn't kick a ball 10 yards if I tried, I would toe poke it left right and centre and I would not be good enough for a pub league team, but that doesn't mean I can't read players, situations, and so on, and use that judgement to forge an opinion when something or someone is doing it wrong.

 

I have just read Devsfavs response to my OP, and I appreciate Dev as he is someone who attacks the post and not the poster, too often people resort in getting personal, rather than what people post, which is why I value his opinion, I may not agree with it, but I value it.

He say's one thing I don't agree on and that's quite simple, 

4 - Quickly understand that Nahki Wells is our best striker, it should be him and one other, not a case of Nahki as an impact sub. It doesn't work that way. Nahki and Tommy or Nahki and Antoine, one of the other to come off the bench. We will not score goals without Nahki on the pitch.  you have to rotate.  You want us to press from the front don’t you?

This is where I differ from most fans. Whilst many are happy to be entertained even if we get beat, as I said last night, I would rather it be ugly and scrappy and win 1-0 or draw 0-0, as there is only one thing that keeps you in this league and that's getting points.

If our team is too fragile and unable to play the press from the front, then no I do not want us to press from the front.

I would be happy if we went out and played dirty with cynical challenges, a few leg breakers here and there to get teams on edge thinking Jesus this guys gonna tear me in half I aint getting close to him. The fact is our squad can't play week in week out trying to play this press from the front, it gets too many injuries and players don't see out 90 minutes, and that is part the reason, why we have a better first half record than second half record.

So no, I don't want us to play in a manner where it means we get more injuries, players are knackered after 70 minutes and we've not got the squad to replace them on the bench. If anything the constant trying to play to a way we don't have the luxury of players to support is partly why we are where we are in the table.

 

I respect Nige likes his 3-5-2 / 5-3-2 but we don't have the side to cover it, we don't have a squad to implement and we don't exactly have a physically strong squad.

But we have some players who can be demanding and a nuisance and get under players skin, and this is what we should be doing, plus playing a bit tough at the back. There is nothing wrong with a few dirty challenges to get a team on edge. It works for so many teams in this league and I don't get why we don't do it. You gain nothing for being a nice club or soft. 

So I would rather we won ulgy / dirty call it what you like.

I would rather results than entertainment, which is why I would not be adverse to a Warnock type manager.

We've tried pretty football for so long and its got us nowhere.

Now I know the main reason I want Pearson gone, it's mainly on I don't think he is a terribly nice person. I mean I liked Gary Johnson, I liked Cotts, I even liked Lee Johnson, but I have never warmed to Nige, the same way I never warmed to S'OD.

I guess this makes me be more judgemental, but I don't like the way Nige comes across.

To me and it may just be me, but I feel he sees this football club as a club who are lucky to have him. like he is better than us, and he is doing us a favour being here, and that he is the all singing and dancing and has to have sorted out the mess, and he feels no one else of his calibre would have wanted to. With this I think he has this hard persona and therefore nothing is ever his fault, it's like we are fortunate to have him.

I might be on my own with this opinion, but I have never seen him come across as gracious, passionate, spirited and his praise for the fans now and again feels like he says it because he is pushed into saying it and not that he means it.

Maybe he just has a cold persona, and is not a people person, but to me he comes across as very arrogant and like he thinks he is bigger than the club, and I think its because of this, I want him gone.

Some of the sly digs he has, some of the comments re fans, players and so on, to many may seem innocent, but I think it's his personality. 

I get the impression he doesn't give a rats about the club, and he is just picking up his pay packet, which wont be a small one. He will blame everything going on around him at the club and he has never once actually taken responsibility for the awful tactics and shocking performances, and always has someone to blame.

If he came out and actually said I got it wrong, I made the wrong decisions, I could probably accept that, as its the truth, but I genuinely feel he thinks he is bigger than the club.

Maybe I am seeing too much, or over thinking, but when your Pep, Klopp, Mourinho etc you can afford to be arrogant, because you get results, you win things and you have proven you perhaps are bigger than your club and they are lucky to have you, but when you carry that air of arrogance, yet on the pitch you're failing for me, you make yourself unlikeable and you will lose support of some quickly.

I also think too much has been made of the financial situation, and comparing to LJ and the war chest he had. I actually think Covid has changed football, the fees arent being paid like they were and it is now harder to move on players as every club is feeling the strain. The deals LJ made mirrored a lot of clubs pre covid and had it not been for the pandemic, we would have probably sold another player for good money and the whole buy to try and make profit model may have continued. I don't think it's fair that LJ is blamed for a model he was being asked to follow and pushed into the direction of. He made signings such as Massengo, Diedhiou and others who were expected to be sold on for profit to fund the next players in. I don't think it's fair to blame him for what transpired, when it was a directive the club was asking him to take. He was of course identifying players, it was the recruitment team who agreed their wages and so on.

I also felt with GJ, SCotts and LJ that we looked a good side, I felt there was times when we could beat anyone and felt we were on the cusp of something. I am not saying had we stuck with LJ we wouldn't be where we are now, but I will also say, I wasn't calling for his head when he was sacked, as I actually felt and do still feel, LJ was a good manager for us, I feel it was a case of the right man at the wrong time. I actually think LJ is a good manager, I think it should be noted the foundations of the side Sunderland have which are in the playoff zone in the Championship now are core Lee Johnson signings. He also had them high enough in the table to be challenging for automatic promotion when he was relieved of his duties. He had a 51% win rate at Sunderland and I dare say his sacking was a shade unjust. The team he was building has not had huge change to the team that now sit 4th in the Championship. I don't think that is a surprise. 
I also think he is doing a decent job at Hibbs. In a league where you can't compete with the top 2, he has taken over one of the poorer clubs who have struggled for seasons on end, and whilst they aren't doing brilliant in the league in 8th, he is doing better than where they were in recent seasons and he is building a young competent side.

I feel Johnson was unfortunate to have his time here with MA, I think LJ is a good coach, I actually think he is good at identifying talent and I think he plays good attacking football and I think he is very knowledgeable. I personally would not be adverse to him having another go with us in the future, but I wouldn't want him right now as I think its too soon , but I do think there is a case of unfinished business and I do think we looked a better side under Johnson than we do under Pearson.

I don't know who can steady the ship, who can help us progress.

Last month I wrote a long piece about why I would look at John Aloisi, a 46 yo manager who has worked wonders on a shoestring budget at Western United, has the team matching top teams, has given youth a chance played top flight football in England, represented his country in a World Cup, and has caught the eye in the A League in not only the miraculous job he has done at Western United, but in the way he turned around a failing cash strapped Brisbane Roar and also turned around the youth development at Melbourne Victory which has led to several youth players breaking into the first time and the Socceroos.

People wont of heard of him unless you follow the A League, but here is a manager who took the team tipped for bottom place and no money to even attempt to buy a marquee player, to winning the A League last season, and despite losing his best players and having no money to replace them has continued to develop players. Having had a rough start to the season, they even went 80 minutes with 10 players to win the other day in a game they were tipped to lose and have won 3 and drawn 1 of their last 5, and the new youth he has promoted is now geling and I am sure Western United will be up there again at the business end.

This is a manager who has had to work with youth, no budget, makes teams hard to beat, can identify talent and has won a league title with a team tipped for bottom place. A manager who in his first role as a manager obtained a 40% win rate, and struggled for personal reasons before leaving the game on a poor season. After 18 months out and working back in youth football, he returned to have a 38% win rate in 3 and half years at a club tipped for mid table , yet got them top 4, 2 years running and then since joining the smallest club in the league has won a league title and has a 49% win rate.

Now John Aloisi, may not be a name many know about, but everyone keeps asking who?

Who could work on no budget, work with youth, help a club through a transition and build a club to win something.

Why not a man, who has transformed 2 of the biggest youth set ups in Australia, took a bottom of the league Brisbane Roar to be a top 4 team, then took on another bottom of the league cash strapped club and over 2 years made them A League champions, all on a budget where he couldn't even sign one marquee player ! Had to use youth and had his best players sold underneath him every season, whilst still getting results.

A manager who can work on a nothing budget, get teams playing good football and has a 49% win rate in his current role at the team with the least money in their league.

Because he is a manager of a team in a league people don't really know and all that, people will laugh at the suggestion, but he is exactly the sort of manager we need.

He is a winner, he can work on a shoestring budget, can recruit well, and can transform teams. He is 46 and no dinosaur, he played at the highest level, albeit not for the biggest clubs and he represented his country at the highest level.

He is the sort of appointment that wouldn't stand out, but like GJ, like Cotts, he is the sort of manager who knows how to do a job, and I genuinely believe if Lansdown went out and poached him from Western United, not only would we stay up this season, but he'll build a team that within 3 years would be in the premier league. 

I disagree with pretty much everything you have written - especially on the fact that you think he is not the right man as you haven’t warmed to his character (which in my eyes is one of the main reasons as to why he is the right man for the current job) but your two long posts are very well thought through and I appreciate that - it’s great to read a reasoned reply as opposed to the usual.   What’s even better is your very well thought out suggestion of a suitable replacement. Very interesting indeed - Postecoglu has obviously done incredibly well so there is precedence of an Aussie manager doing well over here.   Will follow his name with interest and who knows when the time comes when NP does go - maybe he will be the man! 

Edited December 30, 2022 by lenred

[Out of his pie crust]

3 hours ago, Puckle_red said:

Spot on. Almost every point as I see it too. 

I was really disappointed with some of our fans on Boxing Day. I'm in the 'Singing Section' corner...whatever you want to call it. Very little atmosphere throughout the game, until their voices were found near the end to chant about Pearson Out etc. 

As a big Pearson fan, I was really disappointed to see the line up for the WBA game, especially following the Stoke performance and result. But it's all about context, if Pearson had the resources LJ was handed and still getting these results, I'd probably join in, but that isn't the case!

I do feel the supporters have a part to play in improving things for themselves. No, a good atmosphere doesn't guarantee points, but this isn't the first manager in recent times to suggest it might be easier for the players to play away from home. 

Get behind the team boys and girls. COYR! 

I’m in the same section - defo trying to get behind team vs wba but also vocally critical of both players and manager ….the performance level, effort and team selection in that game were way below par, imo not acceptable, despite resource constraints. Last night, improved on all aspects . Naismith spoke about effort levels/application as a baseline and the need to stick together etc.. (a really good interview) so a clean slate next home game, obviously on the back of three points at Coventry, things will be different 

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

Whilst it can be agreed that a point away at Millwall is a sound result. It was of course a better performance, the team whilst looking nervy in the first half, held out and in the second half had 2/3 chances to win it.

One could argue in the final 20 minutes we should have won it, and that Nahki coming on gave us a lift and we looked the more likely winners.

However, we have been here many times before.

It always seems to me, that when the pressure is on, and a result is fundamentally needed to "appease" the fans, we get one. It was no different to prior to West Brom, there was a lot of unhappiness in areas of the fan base and then we won 2-0. However this was followed with 2 defeats and a draw.

The pressure again seem to be boiling after the humiliation against Lincoln, and it was muted a thrashing against Watford, may have spelled the end. However a draw against Watford prior to the World Cup break again seemed to ease pressure, and the comeback win against Rotherham, seemed to settle some nerves and reassure those "backing" Pearson they were right to do so.

However fast forward two defeats on the bounce, comments of "players I can trust" and again the fan base started to turn.

So then we have last night, a result I kind of expected, in a scrappy game where on the balance of it, neither team deserved to lose.

The Pearson stay brigade feel justified, they have seem promise and a performance and feel he is the right man for the job, but is it possibly just a co-incidence that every time the pressure cooker starts to step up, the team pull out a needed result, but its all forgotten a few days later.

Whilst I have been very vocal that I feel Pearson is not the right man to take us forward, I am not so pig ignorant that I feel if he gets the team playing CONSISTENTLY better, that he shouldn't be given the opportunity.

Many feel last nights team selection shows he knows what he was doing, others may argue that he should have been playing that team or close to that team week in week out, and its poor tactical skills which has seem him playing square pegs in round holes and last night was the first time he tried round pegs in round holes in quite some time.

Others will say that he was right to drop Atkinson and bringing him back in shows his treatment of him was correct and it had worked, whilst it could of course be said, that we threw away our last two games and any chance of points by Pearson leaving a defender out and playing an attacking midfielder in defence.

All things said, but for me, last night papers over the cracks, for the third time this season (West Brom away, Watford at home, and now Millwall away). Nothing in my mind has changed, that we have a manager who is unable to get a team which by all standards has a number of players capable at this level picking up wins, or playing consistently to a level where its not a case that any BCFC could turn up.

Then there is the treatment of players, which may work now and again, but can only surely cause rifts in the long run.

For all people say we have been unlucky not to have picked up 8/10 points more this season and had we done that, people would be delighted, this is one of the most stupid suggestions going. The facts are we haven't picked up 8/10 points more, because we have failed to take advantage in games when we were in the ascendency, and sloppy mistakes often by playing players of out their natural position has caused us to lose or draw games we might have won. This isn't being unlucky, it is poor decision making and game management and whilst some times this can sit with the players, it has to be reflected by the manager.

A defeat to Coventry on Sunday would mean last nights draw is immaterial as it would confirm that we are a team that can fail to deliver week in week out, what we need to do, and its easy to say hang on we've not lost yet, but we seldom follow up a good game with another good game.

Pearson still lingers around the 28% win rate, a strike rate that would have seen the axe fall long before, but our position and financial status has probably given him more grace than many others will have got.

Even Johnson who went on massive winless runs, acquired better win ratios.

People seem to think money is the answer and that when Pearson has some to spend he can recruit savy and get us in a prominent position, but already we have seen that most of the players signed by Pearson haven't actually done that good. Of the 3 has beens from Leicester, one has done well, two haven't and one is here for coaching reasons and the other has been bombed out. We have recruited from lower leagues and although Tanner and Atkinson have been OK, Sykes, and Wilson don't really look up to it.

Perhaps Kal Naismith is his golden signing, but the fact is, he hasn't actually recruited that well with what he has recruited, so what makes people think that suddenly more money means better recruitment. This is one thing I fail to understand. If you are poor at something, giving someone more opportunity doesn't mean you get better. 

It's a bit like being a gambler, who loses £10-15 every Saturday, but they get close to winning. It doesn't mean if you give them £200 to bet with, they will suddenly start winning. The more likely scenario is actually a bigger flop.

One would argue if you can't recruit well with no money, you wont recruit well with money, and I personally buy into this theory. 

Now whilst I have said I think Pearson's time should be up, I would like to see him do a few things that could help me understand why we are proceeding to stick with him;

1 - Play the best team in the right positions every week

2 - Admit Chris Martin, Andy King are not good enough at this level any more, and not use them anymore

3- Bring Massengo back into the squad. He may not be likely to sign a new deal, and he may not be first choice, but there are not 18 better options than him, if he leaves for free at the end of the season, so be it. At least make the most of him, whilst he is here.

4 - Quickly understand that Nahki Wells is our best striker, it should be him and one other, not a case of Nahki as an impact sub. It doesn't work that way. Nahki and Tommy or Nahki and Antoine, one of the other to come off the bench. We will not score goals without Nahki on the pitch.

5 - Quit playing Weimann or Scott at right wing back, neither are right wing backs, and you have signed players to play in this position. 

But finally we need some consistency on the pitch. 

A draw at Millwall is all well and good, but if you lose your next 2 games, it is just groundhog day.

I am not expecting us to win or draw every week, but I am sick of no consistency and it feels like the only time we get a result is when his job is actually under fire.

Coventry (A), Birmingham (H), Blackburn (H), Huddersfield (A) and Preston (H) are our next five games. We all know that Blackburn should be tough, but they have lost 4 of their last 5 and have dropped away from the autos because of it, it's even had their fans getting itchy feet on the manager. But Birmingham, Coventry, Huddersfield and Preston are all no better than lower mid table to relegation candidates this season and Preston have also lost 4 out of their last 5. Coventry have won 1 in five, Huddersfield have won their last two so could be finding form, but Birmingham have only won 1 in their last five.

We have five games against teams very similar in form to us, and 4 of the 5 in similar league situations, In my opinion anything less than 7pts from the next 5 games, is not good enough, I would accept 6pts with 1 win, 3 draws and a loss to Blackburn, but this Pearson until the end of January. 

If we are not generating at least 6-7pts from these 5 games, then we will most definitely be in a relegation dog fight going into the next five against Norwich, Wigan, Sunderland, Hull and Cardiff which are five huge games given 3 of them are genuine relegation candidates.

For the moment I am willing to accept giving Nigel the next 5 games, but a defeat on Saturday, and I don't think we should be sticking with him for 2 weeks before our next League game, as it would give the board 2 weeks to find someone who can galvanise the team for a tough second half of the season. 

I know the Pearson fan club, will laugh at this post or make out I'm an anti Pearson and so on, but I want us to succeed and ultimately that means staying up this season. Until Pearson stops heck assing around and puts out a team like he did last night week in week out, we will never get any consistency to more forward on the pitch and regardless of how well a team players.

Its points that determine if you stay up or not, and we find it very hard to pick up 3pts under Pearson, 28% over 2 years is fact of that. 

Nigel has not, and is not anywhere close to being dismissed. 

Some fans just keep repeating it hoping that it then becomes true. It wont. 

Nige is here for the long term. 

[Top Robin]

13 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Nigel has not, and is not anywhere close to being dismissed. 

Some fans just keep repeating it hoping that it then becomes true. It wont. 

Nige is here for the long term. 

You are speculating so I will also.

Even the Pearson in fans would probably disagree with your thoughts here if they were honest - they know if things carry on as they are he could well be given the elbow, which is why they are coming out to defend him so passionately.

Any football manager is only ever a few games away from being dismissed and with Pearson's record so far and our position so close to the relegation zone, he is certainly closer than many others.

Yes there may be a long term plan but any chance of relegation will not be an acceptable part of that plan and he could fall.

However, believe it or not, even us Pearson outers want him to turn things around and the second half of Millwall showed a glimmer of light - but probably not enough yet to make him totally safe.

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

You are speculating so I will also.

Even the Pearson in fans would probably disagree with your thoughts here if they were honest - they know if things carry on as they are he could well be given the elbow, which is why they are coming out to defend him so passionately.

Any football manager is only ever a few games away from being dismissed and with Pearson's record so far and our position so close to the relegation zone, he is certainly closer than many others.

Yes there may be a long term plan but any chance of relegation will not be an acceptable part of that plan and he could fall.

However, believe it or not, even us Pearson outers want him to turn things around and the second half of Millwall showed a glimmer of light - but probably not enough yet to make him totally safe.

 

Speculation with a hint of fact. 

There has not been any serious conversations about relieving Nigel of his duties. Pearson was brought in to overhaul the club. Results haven't always been great but those with the power are happy with the work Nigel has done at the club and there is actually a lot of optimism. 

[Loosey Boy]

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Speculation with a hint of fact. 

There has not been any serious conversations about relieving Nigel of his duties. Pearson was brought in to overhaul the club. Results haven't always been great but those with the power are happy with the work Nigel has done at the club and there is actually a lot of optimism. 

Hope you’re right @W-S-M Seagull - give him the time and he will get us sorted and on the right track from a long-term perspective

[Top Robin]

17 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Speculation with a hint of fact. 

There has not been any serious conversations about relieving Nigel of his duties. Pearson was brought in to overhaul the club. Results haven't always been great but those with the power are happy with the work Nigel has done at the club and there is actually a lot of optimism. 

Genuinely, are you ITK or do you have higher level contacts within BCFC?...sounds like you may. 

[spudski]

2 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

There is a lot of difference in watching planes to flying one, now had you sat in the cockpit for ten years observing and so on, there is a chance you could have a better placed understanding, so I think it's a poor anology.

By the same token, to be a good manager at something doesn't mean you needed to be good at that sport. You can watch a lot of football and some to assessments of players who play well and so on, who they link up well with, what sort of player the club has been missing. That's not to say you would be a brilliant manager but by the same token you might have ideas or understands which could be beneficial.

In my job, I had no practical or academic involvement in it, but I am now in a consultancy role, which means I go to places and advise what people want and so on. This has come from years of being a guinea pig in a situation which has led to me being asked what they are doing right or wrong in this sphere. So by your token, because I spent years watching and being a guinea pig, you feel my input would not be very good, however it has led to me having a job where I now advise people on what is needed and I analyse what they are doing.

I don't pretend to say I am a better football manager than big Nige, I mean I wouldn't kick a ball 10 yards if I tried, I would toe poke it left right and centre and I would not be good enough for a pub league team, but that doesn't mean I can't read players, situations, and so on, and use that judgement to forge an opinion when something or someone is doing it wrong.

 

I have just read Devsfavs response to my OP, and I appreciate Dev as he is someone who attacks the post and not the poster, too often people resort in getting personal, rather than what people post, which is why I value his opinion, I may not agree with it, but I value it.

He say's one thing I don't agree on and that's quite simple, 

4 - Quickly understand that Nahki Wells is our best striker, it should be him and one other, not a case of Nahki as an impact sub. It doesn't work that way. Nahki and Tommy or Nahki and Antoine, one of the other to come off the bench. We will not score goals without Nahki on the pitch.  you have to rotate.  You want us to press from the front don’t you?

This is where I differ from most fans. Whilst many are happy to be entertained even if we get beat, as I said last night, I would rather it be ugly and scrappy and win 1-0 or draw 0-0, as there is only one thing that keeps you in this league and that's getting points.

If our team is too fragile and unable to play the press from the front, then no I do not want us to press from the front.

I would be happy if we went out and played dirty with cynical challenges, a few leg breakers here and there to get teams on edge thinking Jesus this guys gonna tear me in half I aint getting close to him. The fact is our squad can't play week in week out trying to play this press from the front, it gets too many injuries and players don't see out 90 minutes, and that is part the reason, why we have a better first half record than second half record.

So no, I don't want us to play in a manner where it means we get more injuries, players are knackered after 70 minutes and we've not got the squad to replace them on the bench. If anything the constant trying to play to a way we don't have the luxury of players to support is partly why we are where we are in the table.

 

I respect Nige likes his 3-5-2 / 5-3-2 but we don't have the side to cover it, we don't have a squad to implement and we don't exactly have a physically strong squad.

But we have some players who can be demanding and a nuisance and get under players skin, and this is what we should be doing, plus playing a bit tough at the back. There is nothing wrong with a few dirty challenges to get a team on edge. It works for so many teams in this league and I don't get why we don't do it. You gain nothing for being a nice club or soft. 

So I would rather we won ulgy / dirty call it what you like.

I would rather results than entertainment, which is why I would not be adverse to a Warnock type manager.

We've tried pretty football for so long and its got us nowhere.

Now I know the main reason I want Pearson gone, it's mainly on I don't think he is a terribly nice person. I mean I liked Gary Johnson, I liked Cotts, I even liked Lee Johnson, but I have never warmed to Nige, the same way I never warmed to S'OD.

I guess this makes me be more judgemental, but I don't like the way Nige comes across.

To me and it may just be me, but I feel he sees this football club as a club who are lucky to have him. like he is better than us, and he is doing us a favour being here, and that he is the all singing and dancing and has to have sorted out the mess, and he feels no one else of his calibre would have wanted to. With this I think he has this hard persona and therefore nothing is ever his fault, it's like we are fortunate to have him.

I might be on my own with this opinion, but I have never seen him come across as gracious, passionate, spirited and his praise for the fans now and again feels like he says it because he is pushed into saying it and not that he means it.

Maybe he just has a cold persona, and is not a people person, but to me he comes across as very arrogant and like he thinks he is bigger than the club, and I think its because of this, I want him gone.

Some of the sly digs he has, some of the comments re fans, players and so on, to many may seem innocent, but I think it's his personality. 

I get the impression he doesn't give a rats about the club, and he is just picking up his pay packet, which wont be a small one. He will blame everything going on around him at the club and he has never once actually taken responsibility for the awful tactics and shocking performances, and always has someone to blame.

If he came out and actually said I got it wrong, I made the wrong decisions, I could probably accept that, as its the truth, but I genuinely feel he thinks he is bigger than the club.

Maybe I am seeing too much, or over thinking, but when your Pep, Klopp, Mourinho etc you can afford to be arrogant, because you get results, you win things and you have proven you perhaps are bigger than your club and they are lucky to have you, but when you carry that air of arrogance, yet on the pitch you're failing for me, you make yourself unlikeable and you will lose support of some quickly.

I also think too much has been made of the financial situation, and comparing to LJ and the war chest he had. I actually think Covid has changed football, the fees arent being paid like they were and it is now harder to move on players as every club is feeling the strain. The deals LJ made mirrored a lot of clubs pre covid and had it not been for the pandemic, we would have probably sold another player for good money and the whole buy to try and make profit model may have continued. I don't think it's fair that LJ is blamed for a model he was being asked to follow and pushed into the direction of. He made signings such as Massengo, Diedhiou and others who were expected to be sold on for profit to fund the next players in. I don't think it's fair to blame him for what transpired, when it was a directive the club was asking him to take. He was of course identifying players, it was the recruitment team who agreed their wages and so on.

I also felt with GJ, SCotts and LJ that we looked a good side, I felt there was times when we could beat anyone and felt we were on the cusp of something. I am not saying had we stuck with LJ we wouldn't be where we are now, but I will also say, I wasn't calling for his head when he was sacked, as I actually felt and do still feel, LJ was a good manager for us, I feel it was a case of the right man at the wrong time. I actually think LJ is a good manager, I think it should be noted the foundations of the side Sunderland have which are in the playoff zone in the Championship now are core Lee Johnson signings. He also had them high enough in the table to be challenging for automatic promotion when he was relieved of his duties. He had a 51% win rate at Sunderland and I dare say his sacking was a shade unjust. The team he was building has not had huge change to the team that now sit 4th in the Championship. I don't think that is a surprise. 
I also think he is doing a decent job at Hibbs. In a league where you can't compete with the top 2, he has taken over one of the poorer clubs who have struggled for seasons on end, and whilst they aren't doing brilliant in the league in 8th, he is doing better than where they were in recent seasons and he is building a young competent side.

I feel Johnson was unfortunate to have his time here with MA, I think LJ is a good coach, I actually think he is good at identifying talent and I think he plays good attacking football and I think he is very knowledgeable. I personally would not be adverse to him having another go with us in the future, but I wouldn't want him right now as I think its too soon , but I do think there is a case of unfinished business and I do think we looked a better side under Johnson than we do under Pearson.

I don't know who can steady the ship, who can help us progress.

Last month I wrote a long piece about why I would look at John Aloisi, a 46 yo manager who has worked wonders on a shoestring budget at Western United, has the team matching top teams, has given youth a chance played top flight football in England, represented his country in a World Cup, and has caught the eye in the A League in not only the miraculous job he has done at Western United, but in the way he turned around a failing cash strapped Brisbane Roar and also turned around the youth development at Melbourne Victory which has led to several youth players breaking into the first time and the Socceroos.

People wont of heard of him unless you follow the A League, but here is a manager who took the team tipped for bottom place and no money to even attempt to buy a marquee player, to winning the A League last season, and despite losing his best players and having no money to replace them has continued to develop players. Having had a rough start to the season, they even went 80 minutes with 10 players to win the other day in a game they were tipped to lose and have won 3 and drawn 1 of their last 5, and the new youth he has promoted is now geling and I am sure Western United will be up there again at the business end.

This is a manager who has had to work with youth, no budget, makes teams hard to beat, can identify talent and has won a league title with a team tipped for bottom place. A manager who in his first role as a manager obtained a 40% win rate, and struggled for personal reasons before leaving the game on a poor season. After 18 months out and working back in youth football, he returned to have a 38% win rate in 3 and half years at a club tipped for mid table , yet got them top 4, 2 years running and then since joining the smallest club in the league has won a league title and has a 49% win rate.

Now John Aloisi, may not be a name many know about, but everyone keeps asking who?

Who could work on no budget, work with youth, help a club through a transition and build a club to win something.

Why not a man, who has transformed 2 of the biggest youth set ups in Australia, took a bottom of the league Brisbane Roar to be a top 4 team, then took on another bottom of the league cash strapped club and over 2 years made them A League champions, all on a budget where he couldn't even sign one marquee player ! Had to use youth and had his best players sold underneath him every season, whilst still getting results.

A manager who can work on a nothing budget, get teams playing good football and has a 49% win rate in his current role at the team with the least money in their league.

Because he is a manager of a team in a league people don't really know and all that, people will laugh at the suggestion, but he is exactly the sort of manager we need.

He is a winner, he can work on a shoestring budget, can recruit well, and can transform teams. He is 46 and no dinosaur, he played at the highest level, albeit not for the biggest clubs and he represented his country at the highest level.

He is the sort of appointment that wouldn't stand out, but like GJ, like Cotts, he is the sort of manager who knows how to do a job, and I genuinely believe if Lansdown went out and poached him from Western United, not only would we stay up this season, but he'll build a team that within 3 years would be in the premier league. 

True...the flying the plane analogy is a poor comparison.

Everyone learns and pretty much fly's a plane the same way. The same with riding a bike or driving a car.

Finding a way of winning at football is a totally different scenario.

Every Coach and manager is trying to find a way of doing it differently...and then you are competing against someone else, who's doing it their way and trying to stop you.

Some many different conundrums.

They say football is a simple game...yet it's become so contrived and complicated. 

You can have two teams playing tactical football for 90 mins, complex patterns etc...yet a game can be won from pinging in a free kick, to a crowded box and relying on a 50/50 situation.

Funnily it's crossed my mind that because football has become so focused on' tactics, game plans etc etc etc'...and rules regarding hand balls in the box, easy penalty's given for very little in the box, VAR etc...that it's screaming out for a Wimbledon scenario. Pack the box, keep playing direct and into the box. Something will give eventually. An astute manager may pick this up.

Why not....teams play complex football trying to keep possession and shape. Yet get a free kick just inside the opposition's area...what do they do. Fill the box and ping in a cross. Leaving it open to a 50/50 ball to win and defend or attack against. Yet they don't do it in open play! What's the difference...there is no difference. 

Do it in open play and you are accused of being a direct football team with no culture. Yet win a free kick, you become a direct football team. If playing complex football was paramount...when gaining a freekick you'd set up play as you would in normal open play...not ping it into the box.

Football is a simple game made complex. 

It's an art form. 

Regarding Pearson...I don't see him as arrogant. I see him as a person with experience, who doesn't suffer fools gladly. 

Just because fans have an opinion, think they know better ( they are entitled to), pay their money and expect...it doesn't give them the right to give a shit load of bell end opinions and abuse, and not expect to be looked down upon with contempt. 

If you give it and can't take it, and moan like a bitch when the opposite reaction is given, then people need to man up and stop being so offended. 

Ooooh Nige said this, said that...and I'm offended...yet they've called him a C uNt and told him to f e CK off. 

So many football fans can be right dicks...they give it but can't take it back.

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

I have just read Devsfavs response to my OP, and I appreciate Dev as he is someone who attacks the post and not the poster, too often people resort in getting personal, rather than what people post, which is why I value his opinion, I may not agree with it, but I value it.

He say's one thing I don't agree on and that's quite simple, 

4 - Quickly understand that Nahki Wells is our best striker, it should be him and one other, not a case of Nahki as an impact sub. It doesn't work that way. Nahki and Tommy or Nahki and Antoine, one of the other to come off the bench. We will not score goals without Nahki on the pitch.  you have to rotate.  You want us to press from the front don’t you?

This is where I differ from most fans. Whilst many are happy to be entertained even if we get beat, as I said last night, I would rather it be ugly and scrappy and win 1-0 or draw 0-0, as there is only one thing that keeps you in this league and that's getting points.

If our team is too fragile and unable to play the press from the front, then no I do not want us to press from the front.

I would be happy if we went out and played dirty with cynical challenges, a few leg breakers here and there to get teams on edge thinking Jesus this guys gonna tear me in half I aint getting close to him. The fact is our squad can't play week in week out trying to play this press from the front, it gets too many injuries and players don't see out 90 minutes, and that is part the reason, why we have a better first half record than second half record.

So no, I don't want us to play in a manner where it means we get more injuries, players are knackered after 70 minutes and we've not got the squad to replace them on the bench. If anything the constant trying to play to a way we don't have the luxury of players to support is partly why we are where we are in the table.

To clarify, when I say press from the front…I don’t mean heavy press, I don’t mean gegen-press.  Not aimed at you, but so many fans hear the words “High press” or “press from the front” (two different things themselves also) and think Klopp / Rangnick type “heavy metal football”.

I wasn’t prescribing this at all.

In fact, if you read Gary Rowett’s post-match interview you’ll hear how he commented about how Semenyo and Conway dropped in.  They didn’t “high press / gegen press”, they dropped in generally, moved side to side with intensity but blocked passing lanes into the central areas.  They did occasionally High press, off of a trigger, crap touch by defender or wayward pass to keeper.  But that’s just executing the trigger well.  We needed energy and smartness last night to do that, Conway and Semenyo, coupled with Weimann flitting between no10 and RM3, provided that.  It’s why Diedhiou couldn’t press, being harsh, a combo of lack of intelligence and intensity.  He often allowed opposition defenders to progress their team up the pitch.

Therefore our press started from the front…and it’s success made life easier for our defence.

Having referred to GR’s post-match, listen to Dinosaur Nige’s club interview.  Lot of talk about maybe selecting a more defensive side, but he felt that inviting pressure wasn’t the way to play this game, hence the decisions he made.  Although we’d obviously not like to give the ball away there is often a good argument for pinging it in the channel, turning their defence and midfield around and make them start again from their own third, especially if we can then condense half the pitch vertically.  Only once from a throw in deep in their own half, did they within two passes get it out the other side in space.  It was a throw-in from McNamara into Mitchell who controlled and spun an excellent volley out to the CB, who quickly fed Wallace.  The way Semenyo and Conway (and then Wells) split 3 opponents from throws was great.  Their keeper kicked from his own box, not from 20 yards outside like at AG.  Little things, by pressing from the front.

Hope that clarifies what I meant.

As for you “win ugly” couldn’t agree more.  I’ve posted many times before that I can take a lot of pleasure out of a dull 0-0 or a scrappy 1-0, if I see the intent / tactic / endeavour behind it.  Last night was one of those.  So many little things we got spot on, and then you hear the opposition manager call out those things…that’s satisfying.

Finally rotation doesn’t have to happen with subs…it can just be in who starts.  As we know, players who don’t play at least 30-45 minutes do a session to give the impression they’ve not just prepped to play, but have played too.  So I don’t think we are holding players back or they are knackered at 65-70 minute mark, but players like Conway will also be feeling the physical nature of fitness, bumps, bruises, he won’t have got in the 23s (21s now).

I believe this team / squad is physically fitter than at any point since we came back up.  Injuries are now down to more than sensible levels.  Pressing from the front, is about intelligence, drilling, etc, not just fitness.

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

 

Now I know the main reason I want Pearson gone, it's mainly on I don't think he is a terribly nice person. I mean I liked Gary Johnson, I liked Cotts, I even liked Lee Johnson, but I have never warmed to Nige, the same way I never warmed to S'OD.

I guess this makes me be more judgemental, but I don't like the way Nige comes across.

I’d say it is clouding your judgement…and making you see the negative side of everything he dies.  I was chatting to Mat Withers on twitter the other day about this, and I think when you get to a point on a person, everything is shit about them.  An old boss of mine once said, “Dave - when everyone you work with is an arsehole, it’s time to leave - because they aren’t, but you’ve just reached a level you can’t tolerate anymore”.  It’s a bit similar with you and Nige I think.  It’s human nature too.  For info I was working with @Clevedon Redat the time, and he is an arsehole.  Only joking

To me and it may just be me, but I feel he sees this football club as a club who are lucky to have him. like he is better than us, and he is doing us a favour being here, and that he is the all singing and dancing and has to have sorted out the mess, and he feels no one else of his calibre would have wanted to. With this I think he has this hard persona and therefore nothing is ever his fault, it's like we are fortunate to have him.

I might be on my own with this opinion, but I have never seen him come across as gracious, passionate, spirited and his praise for the fans now and again feels like he says it because he is pushed into saying it and not that he means it.

I think there are others on here who agree with you.  I don’t, but that’s fine.

Maybe he just has a cold persona, and is not a people person, but to me he comes across as very arrogant and like he thinks he is bigger than the club, and I think its because of this, I want him gone.

Again, if you go and listen to / read about Nige from others, it appears the complete opposite…they are very fond of him.  He most certainly appears to be to be a people person.  Look at the way he talked about Adam Nagy going to Pisa.  He did what was best for the player to the detriment of the club’s finances and his own team building.  He was asked by BP whether Nagy leaving was similar to Tyreeq Bakinson.  He shut down that thought as quickly as possible, saying Adam was a great guy, situation different, players wife just had a baby, was in another country and they did the best for Adam.  That sounds like a people person to me.

Some of the sly digs he has, some of the comments re fans, players and so on, to many may seem innocent, but I think it's his personality.

As above, you’ve reached an opinion, where you will want to put a negative slant on it.

I get the impression he doesn't give a rats about the club, and he is just picking up his pay packet, which wont be a small one. He will blame everything going on around him at the club and he has never once actually taken responsibility for the awful tactics and shocking performances, and always has someone to blame.

it’s all coming out now!  only joking, but this is a guy who’s been very ill, who could’ve walked at any point.  I don’t think money is driving him, but his professionalism to try and turn around a club that called for him to help.

If he came out and actually said I got it wrong, I made the wrong decisions, I could probably accept that, as its the truth, but I genuinely feel he thinks he is bigger than the club.

But he probably thinks he’s making the right decisions.  That’s just your opinion that he’s making wrong decisions.  I understand why you would claim that too.  We all think he’s made mistakes.

Maybe I am seeing too much, or over thinking, but when your Pep, Klopp, Mourinho etc you can afford to be arrogant, because you get results, you win things and you have proven you perhaps are bigger than your club and they are lucky to have you, but when you carry that air of arrogance, yet on the pitch you're failing for me, you make yourself unlikeable and you will lose support of some quickly.

you need to understand the different levels of expectation on those managers and what success looks likes.  Chalk and cheese using them as comparisons.  Did you go ballistic when Pep called Kalvin Philips fat?

I also think too much has been made of the financial situation, and comparing to LJ and the war chest he had. I actually think Covid has changed football, the fees arent being paid like they were and it is now harder to move on players as every club is feeling the strain. The deals LJ made mirrored a lot of clubs pre covid and had it not been for the pandemic, we would have probably sold another player for good money and the whole buy to try and make profit model may have continued. I don't think it's fair that LJ is blamed for a model he was being asked to follow and pushed into the direction of. He made signings such as Massengo, Diedhiou and others who were expected to be sold on for profit to fund the next players in. I don't think it's fair to blame him for what transpired, when it was a directive the club was asking him to take. He was of course identifying players, it was the recruitment team who agreed their wages and so on.

as a keen student of EFL finances I can tell you categorically very few clubs were spending like us relative to their means!  We are the lucky ones to escape punishment…the relaxed Covid allowances gave us a break!

In some ways I’m glad Covid did intervene.  We lost £28m on full attendances last year!

I think your view of LJ’s role in the overall recruitment is naive…but I don’t want this to digress into LJ.  That’s been well documented elsewhere.

I also felt with GJ, SCotts and LJ that we looked a good side, I felt there was times when we could beat anyone and felt we were on the cusp of something. I am not saying had we stuck with LJ we wouldn't be where we are now, but I will also say, I wasn't calling for his head when he was sacked, as I actually felt and do still feel, LJ was a good manager for us, I feel it was a case of the right man at the wrong time. I actually think LJ is a good manager, I think it should be noted the foundations of the side Sunderland have which are in the playoff zone in the Championship now are core Lee Johnson signings. He also had them high enough in the table to be challenging for automatic promotion when he was relieved of his duties. He had a 51% win rate at Sunderland and I dare say his sacking was a shade unjust. The team he was building has not had huge change to the team that now sit 4th in the Championship. I don't think that is a surprise.

I think your view of LJ is clouding your view of Nige.  This isn’t a LJ v Nige debate.

I also think he is doing a decent job at Hibbs. In a league where you can't compete with the top 2, he has taken over one of the poorer clubs who have struggled for seasons on end, and whilst they aren't doing brilliant in the league in 8th, he is doing better than where they were in recent seasons and he is building a young competent side.

Whilst being well-backed.  Hibs, along with their city rivals Hearts and Aberdeen are not the poorer clubs in the SPL, they are the next batch.  Since they returned to the SPL under Lennon:

so struggled for seasons on end is not true.  Lee needs to get them into the top half and Europe.  That is their aim.  He may well do it, but you’re making a lot of excuses for him.

I feel Johnson was unfortunate to have his time here with MA, I think LJ is a good coach, I actually think he is good at identifying talent and I think he plays good attacking football and I think he is very knowledgeable. I personally would not be adverse to him having another go with us in the future, but I wouldn't want him right now as I think its too soon , but I do think there is a case of unfinished business and I do think we looked a better side under Johnson than we do under Pearson.

we are getting to the root cause of Anti-Nige…it’s an LJ thing.  Please tell me it isn’t?

I don't know who can steady the ship, who can help us progress.

Last month I wrote a long piece about why I would look at John Aloisi, a 46 yo manager who has worked wonders on a shoestring budget at Western United, has the team matching top teams, has given youth a chance played top flight football in England, represented his country in a World Cup, and has caught the eye in the A League in not only the miraculous job he has done at Western United, but in the way he turned around a failing cash strapped Brisbane Roar and also turned around the youth development at Melbourne Victory which has led to several youth players breaking into the first time and the Socceroos.

you did, we debated it, in particular getting a work permit.

People wont of heard of him unless you follow the A League, but here is a manager who took the team tipped for bottom place and no money to even attempt to buy a marquee player, to winning the A League last season, and despite losing his best players and having no money to replace them has continued to develop players. Having had a rough start to the season, they even went 80 minutes with 10 players to win the other day in a game they were tipped to lose and have won 3 and drawn 1 of their last 5, and the new youth he has promoted is now geling and I am sure Western United will be up there again at the business end.

This is a manager who has had to work with youth, no budget, makes teams hard to beat, can identify talent and has won a league title with a team tipped for bottom place. A manager who in his first role as a manager obtained a 40% win rate, and struggled for personal reasons before leaving the game on a poor season. After 18 months out and working back in youth football, he returned to have a 38% win rate in 3 and half years at a club tipped for mid table , yet got them top 4, 2 years running and then since joining the smallest club in the league has won a league title and has a 49% win rate.

Now John Aloisi, may not be a name many know about, but everyone keeps asking who?

not if you have a reasonable knowledge of footie!

Who could work on no budget, work with youth, help a club through a transition and build a club to win something.

Why not a man, who has transformed 2 of the biggest youth set ups in Australia, took a bottom of the league Brisbane Roar to be a top 4 team, then took on another bottom of the league cash strapped club and over 2 years made them A League champions, all on a budget where he couldn't even sign one marquee player ! Had to use youth and had his best players sold underneath him every season, whilst still getting results.

A manager who can work on a nothing budget, get teams playing good football and has a 49% win rate in his current role at the team with the least money in their league.

Because he is a manager of a team in a league people don't really know and all that, people will laugh at the suggestion, but he is exactly the sort of manager we need.

He is a winner, he can work on a shoestring budget, can recruit well, and can transform teams. He is 46 and no dinosaur, he played at the highest level, albeit not for the biggest clubs and he represented his country at the highest level.

He is the sort of appointment that wouldn't stand out, but like GJ, like Cotts, he is the sort of manager who knows how to do a job, and I genuinely believe if Lansdown went out and poached him from Western United, not only would we stay up this season, but he'll build a team that within 3 years would be in the premier league. 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Davefevs

[glynriley]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

“Did you go ballistic when Pep caked Kalvin Philips fat?“

Pep caked him fat? He’s only got himself to blame then…

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, glynriley said:

“Did you go ballistic when Pep caked Kalvin Philips fat?“

Pep caked him fat? He’s only got himself to blame then…

Corrected

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

To clarify, when I say press from the front…I don’t mean heavy press, I don’t mean gegen-press.  Not aimed at you, but so many fans hear the words “High press” or “press from the front” (two different things themselves also) and think Klopp / Rangnick type “heavy metal football”.

I wasn’t prescribing this at all.

In fact, if you read Gary Rowett’s post-match interview you’ll hear how he commented about how Semenyo and Conway dropped in.  They didn’t “high press / gegen press”, they dropped in generally, moved side to side with intensity but blocked passing lanes into the central areas.  They did occasionally High press, off of a trigger, crap touch by defender or wayward pass to keeper.  But that’s just executing the trigger well.  We needed energy and smartness last night to do that, Conway and Semenyo, coupled with Weimann flitting between no10 and RM3, provided that.  It’s why Diedhiou couldn’t press, being harsh, a combo of lack of intelligence and intensity.  He often allowed opposition defenders to progress their team up the pitch.

Therefore our press started from the front…and it’s success made life easier for our defence.

Having referred to GR’s post-match, listen to Dinosaur Nige’s club interview.  Lot of talk about maybe selecting a more defensive side, but he felt that inviting pressure wasn’t the way to play this game, hence the decisions he made.  Although we’d obviously not like to give the ball away there is often a good argument for pinging it in the channel, turning their defence and midfield around and make them start again from their own third, especially if we can then condense half the pitch vertically.  Only once from a throw in deep in their own half, did they within two passes get it out the other side in space.  It was a throw-in from McNamara into Mitchell who controlled and spun an excellent volley out to the CB, who quickly fed Wallace.  The way Semenyo and Conway (and then Wells) split 3 opponents from throws was great.  Their keeper kicked from his own box, not from 20 yards outside like at AG.  Little things, by pressing from the front.

Hope that clarifies what I meant.

As for you “win ugly” couldn’t agree more.  I’ve posted many times before that I can take a lot of pleasure out of a dull 0-0 or a scrappy 1-0, if I see the intent / tactic / endeavour behind it.  Last night was one of those.  So many little things we got spot on, and then you hear the opposition manager call out those things…that’s satisfying.

Finally rotation doesn’t have to happen with subs…it can just be in who starts.  As we know, players who don’t play at least 30-45 minutes do a session to give the impression they’ve not just prepped to play, but have played too.  So I don’t think we are holding players back or they are knackered at 65-70 minute mark, but players like Conway will also be feeling the physical nature of fitness, bumps, bruises, he won’t have got in the 23s (21s now).

I believe this team / squad is physically fitter than at any point since we came back up.  Injuries are now down to more than sensible levels.  Pressing from the front, is about intelligence, drilling, etc, not just fitness.

I agree with those sentiments Dave... not only is out team physically fitter, but like you say more intelligent.

Yesterday was a prime example. When watching I thought to myself, ' they must be knackered mentaly'.  It was a well drilled plan. They had to be fit to accomplish what they did, but also intelligent enough, focussed enough, to know when to press, drop or block lanes etc. It was so accomplished that the Millwall commentator remarked on how we were doing it often.

They were switched on, didn't hide and played perfectly to negate Millwall, whilst still creating chances. 

Naismith also mentioned that he was getting up to speed and seeing things on the pitch quicker again.

It's something that we as fans often forget. The mental side can often be more fatiguing than physical.

Another reason why it's more helpful for players to have the full support of fans on match day. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

9 hours ago, Loosey Boy said:

Hope you’re right @W-S-M Seagull - give him the time and he will get us sorted and on the right track from a long-term perspective

What excites me the most is his relationship with Brian and how together they have succesfully integrated the 1st team and academy. 

9 hours ago, Top Robin said:

Genuinely, are you ITK or do you have higher level contacts within BCFC?...sounds like you may. 

I couldn't tell you who we're signing next etc. Maybe bits and bobs. 

But I can tell you Nigel is very well respected at our club. From the top down to the bottom. Us fans don't often see what goes on at the HPC and the work that is being undertaken. 

12 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

Now I know the main reason I want Pearson gone, it's mainly on I don't think he is a terribly nice person. I mean I liked Gary Johnson, I liked Cotts, I even liked Lee Johnson, but I have never warmed to Nige, the same way I never warmed to S'OD.

I guess this makes me be more judgemental, but I don't like the way Nige comes across.

To me and it may just be me, but I feel he sees this football club as a club who are lucky to have him. like he is better than us, and he is doing us a favour being here, and that he is the all singing and dancing and has to have sorted out the mess, and he feels no one else of his calibre would have wanted to. With this I think he has this hard persona and therefore nothing is ever his fault, it's like we are fortunate to have him.

I might be on my own with this opinion, but I have never seen him come across as gracious, passionate, spirited and his praise for the fans now and again feels like he says it because he is pushed into saying it and not that he means it.

Maybe he just has a cold persona, and is not a people person, but to me he comes across as very arrogant and like he thinks he is bigger than the club, and I think its because of this, I want him gone.

Some of the sly digs he has, some of the comments re fans, players and so on, to many may seem innocent, but I think it's his personality. 

I get the impression he doesn't give a rats about the club, and he is just picking up his pay packet, which wont be a small one. He will blame everything going on around him at the club and he has never once actually taken responsibility for the awful tactics and shocking performances, and always has someone to blame.

Nige is a bit old school. Bit of a grump and he'll admit that. 

GJ, SC and even LJ all had a bit of a cheeky sense of humour so I guess that's why you warmed to them more. 

Nige has a different persona in the media than he does in real life. 

He is fiercely loyal to those that work hard to adhere to his set standards. That's why the likes of James and King have followed him. That's why Wells is now one of his boys. 

Nope Nige has a huge respect for our owners and the club as a whole. He has always spoken very fondly about the Lansdowns I interviews and the same with Gould. I also believe he was a huge advocate of the former players association. He has a huge respect for the history of this club. He has taken a lot of time to learn the history because that's the very fabric of this club. That isn't someone who thinks they are better than this club? 

There are many available interviews on the Web from former players about what Pearson is like as a person. This may surprise you but he is actually gracious, passionate and spirted to those who earns his trust. Nige is very very big on those things. He will ask the players everyday how their wives and kids are etc and show a genuine interest in all of that because he knows these players are people too. 

Nige freely admits he isn't a people's person and prefers his own company. However he also says that people and their behaviours intrigue him. 

Pre match Vs WBA Pearson gave an interview where he spoke very fondly about having 4 generations of his family around his house on Christmas day.  He said he found that very special. That is the type of guy he is. Unfortunately I think you've read him completely wrong. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

There are many available interviews on the Web from former players about what Pearson is like as a person. This may surprise you but he is actually gracious, passionate and spirted to those who earns his trust. Nige is very very big on those things. He will ask the players everyday how their wives and kids are etc and show a genuine interest in all of that because he knows these players are people too. 

 

It is gratifying to know, as we slip to 19th, one bad result away from the relegation zone and 4 points off bottom spot, that we are being managed by such a 'proper' old school manager and all round human being.

[Abraham Romanovich]

14 hours ago, spudski said:

 

Football is a simple game made complex. 

It's an art form. 

 

 

Art is a creative expression of ideas.

Sport is a display of skill/exertion in a competitive format.

You can perform artistry in a sport  but that is a showcase of skill and technique rendered artfully, not art.

[ashton_fan]

I have mixed feelings about Nige, he's obviously had a lot of success earlier in his career but most managers have a 'sell by date' and he hasn't had any great success for a number of years now.

On the other hand I think back to when I first supported the club in 1970 and Alan Dicks was trying to build a side based on youth and the team were inconsistent and usually struggling near the foot of the table with chants of "Dicks must go" from the crowd on a regular basis. Unfortunately we can't easily look into the future but in that case keeping the manager gave the club just about it's most successful period with promotion from Div 2 followed by four seasons in the top flight, although Dicks had been in charge for 6 or 7 seasons before promotion was achieved. 

So the question remains is Nige another AD or an over-the-hill has-been? I really don't know the answer. 

[Top Robin]

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

What excites me the most is his relationship with Brian and how together they have succesfully integrated the 1st team and academy. 

I couldn't tell you who we're signing next etc. Maybe bits and bobs. 

But I can tell you Nigel is very well respected at our club. From the top down to the bottom. Us fans don't often see what goes on at the HPC and the work that is being undertaken. 

Nige is a bit old school. Bit of a grump and he'll admit that. 

GJ, SC and even LJ all had a bit of a cheeky sense of humour so I guess that's why you warmed to them more. 

Nige has a different persona in the media than he does in real life. 

He is fiercely loyal to those that work hard to adhere to his set standards. That's why the likes of James and King have followed him. That's why Wells is now one of his boys. 

Nope Nige has a huge respect for our owners and the club as a whole. He has always spoken very fondly about the Lansdowns I interviews and the same with Gould. I also believe he was a huge advocate of the former players association. He has a huge respect for the history of this club. He has taken a lot of time to learn the history because that's the very fabric of this club. That isn't someone who thinks they are better than this club? 

There are many available interviews on the Web from former players about what Pearson is like as a person. This may surprise you but he is actually gracious, passionate and spirted to those who earns his trust. Nige is very very big on those things. He will ask the players everyday how their wives and kids are etc and show a genuine interest in all of that because he knows these players are people too. 

Nige freely admits he isn't a people's person and prefers his own company. However he also says that people and their behaviours intrigue him. 

Pre match Vs WBA Pearson gave an interview where he spoke very fondly about having 4 generations of his family around his house on Christmas day.  He said he found that very special. That is the type of guy he is. Unfortunately I think you've read him completely wrong. 

Your unwavering love for Pearson is slightly nauseating and bordering on the obsessive.

[sh1t_ref_again]

39 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

I have mixed feelings about Nige, he's obviously had a lot of success earlier in his career but most managers have a 'sell by date' and he hasn't had any great success for a number of years now.

On the other hand I think back to when I first supported the club in 1970 and Alan Dicks was trying to build a side based on youth and the team were inconsistent and usually struggling near the foot of the table with chants of "Dicks must go" from the crowd on a regular basis. Unfortunately we can't easily look into the future but in that case keeping the manager gave the club just about it's most successful period with promotion from Div 2 followed by four seasons in the top flight, although Dicks had been in charge for 6 or 7 seasons before promotion was achieved. 

So the question remains is Nige another AD or an over-the-hill has-been? I really don't know the answer. 

Thought the shout would have been Dicks out, or was that just the women shouting this

[cidered abroad]

33 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

I have mixed feelings about Nige, he's obviously had a lot of success earlier in his career but most managers have a 'sell by date' and he hasn't had any great success for a number of years now.

On the other hand I think back to when I first supported the club in 1970 and Alan Dicks was trying to build a side based on youth and the team were inconsistent and usually struggling near the foot of the table with chants of "Dicks must go" from the crowd on a regular basis. Unfortunately we can't easily look into the future but in that case keeping the manager gave the club just about it's most successful period with promotion from Div 2 followed by four seasons in the top flight, although Dicks had been in charge for 6 or 7 seasons before promotion was achieved. 

So the question remains is Nige another AD or an over-the-hill has-been? I really don't know the answer. 

Possibly a bit of both.

Positively he is reorganising the way we run the football club. Academy is now we'll integrated with First team squad instead of being a separate club. Recruiting younger players who he sees as good potential.

Hindered in similar vein to AD as not able, this time due to FFP, to spend large sums on recruitment. 

On the negative side, maybe Pearson is too cautious due to his longer experience elsewhere? Although I may be talking tripe as Dicks was never seen as a gambler.

So perhaps they are similar with age when joining being the only difference. Both managing to keep us up while building for the next upward promotion.

 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

27 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

And your lack loyalty to the current leader of the club you claim to support is equally nauseating. 

 

 

Lack of loyalty??? To a manager with one of the worst records over 90 games in BCFC history???

Loyalty as with trust is earned by any manager or player and over a period of time. Any supporter who pays his/her money earns the right to have an opinion on both on and off field activities but that should never extend to the deeply personal. I suspect that NP would thoroughly endorse this view and has said as much.

What I think is very encouraging is that those no longer wanting NP to carry on who now seem to be the majority have been extremely respectful towards him. I haven't seen any deeply personal remarks regarding his shape, size, height, parentage or unnatural relationship with the Lansdowns etc. Most would agree that Nige came into a difficult situation but he has not been able to make the most of the tools at his disposal.

Loyalty is about supporting our club whatever the mess. Tinnion and Murray are great examples of this.

 

 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

"And yeah, paying to watch a game for 90 minutes is qualification to demand a club part company with a manager... shown by those paying supporters booing a 20 year old on home debut after two mistakes inside 20 minutes in a meaningless cup game. They really sound like a qualified bunch... "

 

Oh dear

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

It is gratifying to know, as we slip to 19th, one bad result away from the relegation zone and 4 points off bottom spot, that we are being managed by such a 'proper' old school manager and all round human being.

He didn’t say “old school manager”!

If you listen to Nige you’ll hear lots of info about how his professional development has kept him up with modern ways.  And a bit like Allardyce one of the early adopters of Sports Science.  Worth reading Dave Rennie on LinkedIn about City being the club that allowed him to bring in some outside companies re “player skeletal movement” to aid injury recognition.  That doesn’t sound like the thing an old school manager would allow does it?

On the rare occasions someone asks him a more tactical question, he gives a lot of tactical detail away.  You’ve just got to listen for it. And ask in the first place too!

He readily admits he’s a manager, a facilitator, someone who empowers his people.

You are so focussed on results and team selection(s) to bash Nige, you are missing so much else.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, Top Robin said:

Your unwavering love for Pearson is slightly nauseating and bordering on the obsessive.

You wouldn't last 5 minutes with him as your boss. Just like plenty of our players didn't. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Lack of loyalty??? To a manager with one of the worst records over 90 games in BCFC history???

Loyalty as with trust is earned by any manager or player and over a period of time. Any supporter who pays his/her money earns the right to have an opinion on both on and off field activities but that should never extend to the deeply personal. I suspect that NP would thoroughly endorse this view and has said as much.

What I think is very encouraging is that those no longer wanting NP to carry on who now seem to be the majority have been extremely respectful towards him. I haven't seen any deeply personal remarks regarding his shape, size, height, parentage or unnatural relationship with the Lansdowns etc. Most would agree that Nige came into a difficult situation but he has not been able to make the most of the tools at his disposal.

Loyalty is about supporting our club whatever the mess. Tinnion and Murray are great examples of this.

 

 

So trust is only earned if we win games? Tinnion despite being your great example, didn't win many games. 

There was so very deeply personal comments made when Nige was off sick, by the same people that now want him out. Strange that. 

[Top Robin]

1 hour ago, Percy Pig said:

Nige is the leader of our club. He is leading it through arguably the largest period of transition and financial uncertainty since 1982. 

He's improved nearly everything whilst here. Our academy is fully integrated into the club and delivering first team players at an almost unparalleled level in the second tier. The squad has patiently been trimmed of no mark mercenaries like Palmer and Bakinson. 

Our precarious financial position has been carefully managed to avoid a points deduction, all whilst not only playing but improving Scott, Conway, Semenyo, Pring etc and staying in this division. 

The style of play is dramatically better than before. When was the last game we had with zero shots on target. Yes, we've had a bad spell, but injuries in key positions really hurt our early season form. 

But on that front, he has recognised the incompetence of the medical department preciously in situ and replaced them. We have a much better record on that front. He could have been selfish to preserve his reputation with the likes of Williams, but he has protected the interests of both the player and the club in the long term by reducing his starts and playing it safe.

He could have  further protected himself by making short termist decisions regarding Bentley, HNM and others. He could have shown less trust in the young players I mentioned. He could have continued to play Pring, Dasilva and Atkinson without taking the opportunity to drop, send a message and have them come back stronger not only now, but with key lessons for the rest of their career.

We finally have a manager who is invested in and committed to a project. A long term one that will lead to a sustainable future for my club. Not chasing a dream and risking my children's opportunity to support my club. Can we not just be patient? Can we not be members of this God awful Love Island generation where instant gratification is the only acceptable outcome? 

Let's finally see something through, with a bloke who is experienced, knowledgeable and respected by people actually involved in the game?

And yeah, paying to watch a game for 90 minutes is qualification to demand a club part company with a manager... shown by those paying supporters booing a 20 year old on home debut after two mistakes inside 20 minutes in a meaningless cup game. They really sound like a qualified bunch... 

Are you and W-S-M Seagull Pearson's kids by any chance?

[bcfcredandwhite]

It’s normal and totally acceptable to question the manager’s selections, tactics and overall performance. 
Lee Johnson was (rightly) scrutinised during his tenure and it’s perfectly right that we appraise Nige. 
Many of us have played the game to some level or another and ALL of us watch the game, so we are NOT clueless - whatever we think of Nige. 
This is OUR club and we want the best for it. We’ve all invested money in it and when we see poor results and performances it’s absolutely right that we debate the reasons why. 
Just blindly saying that Nige (or anyone for that matter) always knows best is wrong. 
It’s just like saying we should accept that the government always knows best and we don’t need elections. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by bcfcredandwhite
Add words

[gornagain]

28 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Are you and W-S-M Seagull Pearson's kids by any chance?

Debate is about answering points made, not about insulting people who disagree with you. Is this all you can bring to the discussion?

 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Just blindly saying that Nige (or anyone for that matter) always knows best is wrong. 

I think you’ll find those of us in support of Nige do anything but blindly say it, we give plenty of rationale for our opinion.

[bcfcredandwhite]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think you’ll find those of us in support of Nige do anything but blindly say it, we give plenty of rationale for our opinion.

I was responding to the posts likening criticism of the manager to thinking you could fly a plane because you have seen them fly, or perform surgery because you’ve watched it on a TV drama. 
My comments were agnostic towards posters who both support or criticise Nige. 
I didn’t intend it as an attack on Nige’s supporters. 
 

Edited December 31, 2022 by bcfcredandwhite
Add suffix

[Top Robin]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You wouldn't last 5 minutes with him as your boss. Just like plenty of our players didn't. 

 

Strange retort and getting a bit personal but - I don't have a boss, and if I did, I wouldn't want to work for one as poor as NP

Pearson would have been sacked months ago if he were performing so badly in most private sector companies.

 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Top Robin said:

 

Strange retort and getting a bit personal but - I don't have a boss, and if I did, I wouldn't want to work for one as poor as NP

Pearson would have been sacked months ago if he were performing so badly in most private sector companies.

 

In the private sector world, if he was deemed to be performing badly, he’d be on a unofficial performance plan, that might become official, then unions involved, probably find he’s not performing badly and the process would start all over again.  It’s bloody hard to sack / demote anyone in the private sector…it takes ages!

[FNQ]

5 hours ago, Top Robin said:

Your unwavering love for Pearson is slightly nauseating and bordering on the obsessive.

Seriously you are friggin boring.. out of interest when have you been happier supporting the City in the last 20 or 30 years… assuming that you’re that old? What previous manager should we be aspiring to?

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

So trust is only earned if we win games? Tinnion despite being your great example, didn't win many games. 

There was so very deeply personal comments made when Nige was off sick, by the same people that now want him out. Strange that. 

Certainly not by me. Perhaps you should quote exactly who did and what they're saying now? Alternatively, we can take that you just make up crap to fit your viewpoint? The info is there if you want to prove your point or not- the latter signifying you are indeed making stuff up. Your choice.

 

As far as Tinnion is concerned- how very convenient to take his 1 year role as Manager out of context- he played 458 games in 12 years. He returned to BCFC and has driven the youth side of things as well as loans, Academy Director  and is now DOF having given most of his working career to this club. The best stuff at BCFC is mainly as a result of his input- Brian was coaching Scott, Semenyo & Conway when Nige was still in Belgium.

@Percy Pig perhaps you should read OTIB a bit more thoroughly? I know you're only just starting out but I really  haven't seen "demands" for Nige's sacking as with @W-S-M Seagullplease quote those"demanding" NP should be sacked. There are simply those who believe NP is not the man to take us further forward and could well lead us into L1 as our record suggests. It seems much more the case the those in the cult of Nigel demand that he stays and woe betide anyone with a view to the contrary mainly because they are "brain dead" or are the "very same people who booed a player in a cup match" which in itself is speculative nonsense with zero credibility .

 

 

[Davefevs]

What a twist of narrative!

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What a twist of narrative!

Nige gone again, eh, Dave? 

[W-S-M Seagull]

50 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Certainly not by me. Perhaps you should quote exactly who did and what they're saying now? Alternatively, we can take that you just make up crap to fit your viewpoint? The info is there if you want to prove your point or not- the latter signifying you are indeed making stuff up. Your choice.

 

As far as Tinnion is concerned- how very convenient to take his 1 year role as Manager out of context- he played 458 games in 12 years. He returned to BCFC and has driven the youth side of things as well as loans, Academy Director  and is now DOF having given most of his working career to this club. The best stuff at BCFC is mainly as a result of his input- Brian was coaching Scott, Semenyo & Conway when Nige was still in Belgium.

@Percy Pig perhaps you should read OTIB a bit more thoroughly? I know you're only just starting out but I really  haven't seen "demands" for Nige's sacking as with @W-S-M Seagullplease quote those"demanding" NP should be sacked. There are simply those who believe NP is not the man to take us further forward and could well lead us into L1 as our record suggests. It seems much more the case the those in the cult of Nigel demand that he stays and woe betide anyone with a view to the contrary mainly because they are "brain dead" or are the "very same people who booed a player in a cup match" which in itself is speculative nonsense with zero credibility .

 

 

All over social media there was disgusting comments regarding the reason he was off sick. Completely untrue and unfounded allegations. Don't pretend you didn't see it. 

Plenty of people have demanded his sacking. The "We want Pearson out" chant was quite demanding wasn't it? 

[Davefevs]

Just now, W-S-M Seagull said:

All over social media there was disgusting comments regarding the reason he was off sick. Completely untrue and unfounded allegations. Don't pretend you didn't see it. 

Plenty of people have demanded his sacking. The "We want Pearson out" chant was quite demanding wasn't it? 

Those stories were on here too.

[Northern Red]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Those stories were on here too.

Yep, and were removed. I suspect MRR knows this too which is why the question is being asked, as it can't be proven.

[lenred]

2 hours ago, Top Robin said:

Are you and W-S-M Seagull Pearson's kids by any chance?

What a ‘ish comment.  

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

It’s normal and totally acceptable to question the manager’s selections, tactics and overall performance. 
Lee Johnson was (rightly) scrutinised during his tenure and it’s perfectly right that we appraise Nige. 
Many of us have played the game to some level or another and ALL of us watch the game, so we are NOT clueless - whatever we think of Nige. 
This is OUR club and we want the best for it. We’ve all invested money in it and when we see poor results and performances it’s absolutely right that we debate the reasons why. 
Just blindly saying that Nige (or anyone for that matter) always knows best is wrong. 
It’s just like saying we should accept that the government always knows best and we don’t need elections. 

But Nige knows better than us the reasons as to why he makes those selections. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

56 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

All over social media there was disgusting comments regarding the reason he was off sick. Completely untrue and unfounded allegations. Don't pretend you didn't see it. 

Plenty of people have demanded his sacking. The "We want Pearson out" chant was quite demanding wasn't it? 

No I genuinely didn't see it unless it was on here. The only thing I can remember is what @Davefevs wrote at the time about Nige leaving ( bit of a theme with Dave). I don't do Twitter or smugbook  or any of the others so my 'pretence' is yet another of your fantasies.

In respect of demands- I was very specific about it being OTIB- see previous posts. Who, on OTIB, is demanding NP sacked ? A recent poll voted by 700 individuals on OTIB voted by  60% that it was time to seek a new manager. Demands on this club are pointless and you should know this by now- BCFC is not a democracy, it's an autocracy.

Come on- I've called your bluff and asked you to prove what you said: show me the comments on OTIB made about Nige's illness and what those same posters are saying now . If you can't then I think that pretty much sums up your credibility on this issue.

20 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Anyway, I've said my bit. I've made a fairly lengthy case for Nige and it's one I believe in. You responded to one point in a childish way, so I guess that's really the end of the debate. Nothing to be gained from further denigrating into insults and bickering. 

 

So you've made 16 posts in total on OTIB and the majority are ,so far, similar to the above and  argumentative. Good luck with that as I hope you have more in your repertoire than calling people who ask for evidence "childish" or getting overly heated if someone doesn't agree with your opinion of Nige!

A  happy NY to you too!

[Vidal]

Nigel Pearson is an experienced manager who is proven at this level, and there have definitely been some successes along with the obvious failings. The question with NP is whether he is now past his prime - recent stints with us, Leuvren and Derby do point towards that, where success on the pitch has been limited. 

This idea of “prime” and managers is an interesting one in my view - the likes of Hughes, Clough, Brown, Adkins, Jacket, Grayson etc were all proven in the Champ, now finding themselves in the lower leagues, should Pearson be in the same category? Once a top championship manager now past his best?

Pearson successes here include (in my view) 

- Balancing the books, playing young players and adding considerable value to them, clarity to fan base, good individual results 

negatives (in my view)

- league position, win ratio, rigidity of formation, players played out of position when alternatives available, relations with players in the press, individual signings.

I am not calling for his removal, I can’t think of a better person to sort us out off the pitch, however I do not necessarily have faith in his decision making and coaching. For me it’s about survival, like he has said, perhaps his job is about doing the dirty work that builds the foundations for who comes next. 

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

But Nige knows better than us the reasons as to why he makes those selections. 

I totally agree with this - Nige knows why he makes the decisions and we don’t. 
I probably come across on this forum and being anti-NP. I’m not. 
I question his selection and tactics as I have done all our managers and will continue to do so. 
I worry when our manager selects the wrong players for certain positions and then, when we lose, repeats the same (IMHO) wrong selection, loses again, then says in response to criticism ‘I’m not bothered - I’ve been booed in bigger stadiums than this’

I think that says more than the actual words he used. 
 

However, I genuinely hope he is right and turns it around. SAF and Alan Dicks were both within an inch of getting sacked before they turned it around. I really hope Nige can do the same. Changing managers is unsettling and isn’t great. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

No I genuinely didn't see it unless it was on here. The only thing I can remember is what @Davefevs wrote at the time about Nige leaving ( bit of a theme with Dave). I don't do Twitter or smugbook  or any of the others so my 'pretence' is yet another of your fantasies.

In respect of demands- I was very specific about it being OTIB- see previous posts. Who, on OTIB, is demanding NP sacked ? A recent poll voted by 700 individuals on OTIB voted by  60% that it was time to seek a new manager. Demands on this club are pointless and you should know this by now- BCFC is not a democracy, it's an autocracy.

Come on- I've called your bluff and asked you to prove what you said: show me the comments on OTIB made about Nige's illness and what those same posters are saying now . If you can't then I think that pretty much sums up your credibility on this issue.

So you've made 16 posts in total on OTIB and the majority are ,so far, similar to the above and  argumentative. Good luck with that as I hope you have more in your repertoire than calling people who ask for evidence "childish" or getting overly heated if someone doesn't agree with your opinion of Nige!

A  happy NY to you too!

What did I write at the time?  Apart from I posted that I’d heard he’d gone?  I had a message from someone saying “Nige Gone”, and in response to a post saying he’d gone, I passed on what message I’d received.

I hope you’re not insinuating in any way that I contributed to the awful stuff said about his health, and I’m not talking about Covid!

Please clarify.