Craig Pawson

[BilboBaggins05]

How is he a premier league and Europa league referee ?????

[nickolas]

Probably because like 99% of refs hes completely inept therefore he doesnt stand out as any worse than the rest. 
No pens for nearly 500 days and we couldve had 4 today. Yet cant even get 1. 
Terrible. 

[Gazred]

Joins a long list of refs not to award us a pen. That said, i don't think we had anything stonewall today.

Apart from that he seemed to do ok for me.

[1960maaan]

Worst of all the bad Prem Refs we've had.
Foul after foul given, but it took until about the 75th minute for him to book one of theirs.
Managed to book one of theirs for something in the their area, but give them a free kick.
Stopped play, I think we may have had the ball,  for a Swansea player with a bad back. Trainer comes on and gives him treatment but for some reason he didn't have to leave the pitch.
I won't mention the Penalty shouts as I've given up. 

******* unless.

[petehinton]

4 minutes ago, Gazred said:

Joins a long list of refs not to award us a pen. That said, i don't think we had anything stonewall today.

Apart from that he seemed to do ok for me.

Even taken the red tinted specs off, the ones on Semenyo and Atkinson first half are absolutely penalties 

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, Gazred said:

Joins a long list of refs not to award us a pen. That said, i don't think we had anything stonewall today.

Apart from that he seemed to do ok for me.

Apart from when Semenyo & Atkinson were both tripped first half, presumably?

Watch the highlights, both are stonewall penalties.

[Midred]

Do they bother now they have VAR?

[Gazred]

Just now, petehinton said:

Even taken the red tinted specs off, the ones on Semenyo and Atkinson first half are absolutely penalties 

Semenyo looked a pen. Couldn't really make out the Atkinson one even on replay. VAR might well give both if available.

[Midred]

1 minute ago, Gazred said:

Semenyo looked a pen. Couldn't really make out the Atkinson one even on replay. VAR might well give both if available.

Unless we play at Old Trafford or Anfield?

[normanhillred]

3 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Even taken the red tinted specs off, the ones on Semenyo and Atkinson first half are absolutely penalties 

I am 55 and have been watching City since 1975. Genuinely feel I have seen us take our last penalty 

[italian dave]

8 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Worst of all the bad Prem Refs we've had.
Foul after foul given, but it took until about the 75th minute for him to book one of theirs.
Managed to book one of theirs for something in the their area, but give them a free kick.
Stopped play, I think we may have had the ball,  for a Swansea player with a bad back. Trainer comes on and gives him treatment but for some reason he didn't have to leave the pitch.
I won't mention the Penalty shouts as I've given up. 

******* unless.

Agree he waited far too long to get a card out. It was clear from the start that part of their game plan was to simply stop Conway and Scott by whatever means necessary.

The trainer incident and not leaving the field was interesting: pretty sure that something similar happened at Coventry. Second half when a Swansea player needed attention he was made to leave the field. I assume refs have some sort of discretion, but no idea what the criteria are meant to be. 

[1960maaan]

4 minutes ago, Midred said:

Do they bother now they have VAR?

That is the problem. They know if they miss something they have cover, it gives them an easy out. Of course back in the real World of the EFL a non decision impacts massively, just as much as a wrong one.

[tin]

10 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Even taken the red tinted specs off, the ones on Semenyo and Atkinson first half are absolutely penalties 

Yep, and I’ve seen reds given for incidents like one involving Wood on Scott. Abysmal.  

Edited January 8, 2023 by tin

[Vidal]

Despite what some posters say on here, he completely bottled the Scott decision. He didn’t give for a foul only Scott until after the head but on him. We know this because he didn’t play advantage when Swansea broke, nor he did he allow play to carry on before issuing the yellow card. 

He then somehow made the decision to give the foul on Scott and book their player - he bottled it.

should’ve been 3 penalties.

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

Agree he waited far too long to get a card out. It was clear from the start that part of their game plan was to simply stop Conway and Scott by whatever means necessary.

The trainer incident and not leaving the field was interesting: pretty sure that something similar happened at Coventry. Second half when a Swansea player needed attention he was made to leave the field. I assume refs have some sort of discretion, but no idea what the criteria are meant to be. 

As far as I know there is no desertion , you get treatment and you have to leave the field. Otherwise it is open to even more accusations of cheating.

[italian dave]

10 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

As far as I know there is no desertion , you get treatment and you have to leave the field. Otherwise it is open to even more accusations of cheating.

That’s what I thought. Odd that it’s happened twice this year! 

[Lew-T]

 

Just waiting on @GrahamC approval of this thread… as usual

[kit]

Watch the bbc highlights, three clear as day penalties. Agree the wood challenge is borderline violent conduct but probably just about a yellow.

Scandalous refereeing, the Atkinson one was shocking not to be given. It also missed the one where Scott was 2 handed thrown to the ground and also one where the defender was playing american football with wells on the edge of the area which would have been soft but still a foul.

I think we were fouled 5 times at least in the box today, 2 for me were stonewallers. The Scott one has a slight argument for Scott having a nibble but I think they were both at it before he struck out.

[1960maaan]

4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

That’s what I thought. Odd that it’s happened twice this year! 

It's obviously a City thing, along with not getting Penalties.

[steviestevieneville]

29 minutes ago, Midred said:

Do they bother now they have VAR?

Thought that yesterday. Linesman for Wednesday’s first goal was nowhere near up with play , lazy & he was offside . Ho we never got a penalty I’ll never know 

[Harry]

39 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Apart from when Semenyo & Atkinson were both tripped first half, presumably?

Watch the highlights, both are stonewall penalties.

Yep. The Atkinson one I’ve not really seen a clear replay of, but it certainly looked as if he was swiped. Probably gets given in the centre circle. 
 

The one on Semenyo was a definite penalty. Pawson gestured as if the defender had got the ball, but he didn’t. He went to ground, made contact and the ball went away because it hit Semenyo’s leg on the way down. 
 

The one involving Scott was odd. Seemed there was a penalty shout about 10 seconds prior with the melee in the box and then when it got cleared the ref wasn’t giving anything. Maybe he was playing an advantage but it wasn’t really clear and it wasn’t much of an advantage anyway, as they were on the edge of their own box! Ref only blew the whistle after the Swansea player had attempted to headbutt Scott. So if that was the offence he was blowing for (and for which the player was booked) then why is that not a penalty? If he’s played the advantage then the Swansea foul is surely in the next phase of play? Surely he should only call back an advantage if the player didn’t gain an advantage? Which wasn’t the case 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Harry

[DaveInSA]

Watch the BBC highlights. 

I thought it was a comedy. Which then became a tragedy.

I love Bristol City FC.

Referees. Not so much.

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

As far as I know there is no desertion , you get treatment and you have to leave the field. Otherwise it is open to even more accusations of cheating.

Rules were changed a few years back - if the injured player was fouled and the offender is cautioned (yellow / red) then the injured player does not need to go off the pitch.

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Rules were changed a few years back - if the injured player was fouled and the offender is cautioned (yellow / red) then the injured player does not need to go off the pitch.

I didn't know that, but I didn't think a foul was given let alone a card, as the ball was cleared and both teams played on. So I was wrong in my assumption, and the Ref was just plain wrong . 

[1960maaan]

29 minutes ago, Harry said:

Yep. The Atkinson one I’ve not really seen a clear replay of, but it certainly looked as if he was swiped. Probably gets given in the centre circle. 
 

The one on Semenyo was a definite penalty. Pawson gestured as if the defender had got the ball, but he didn’t. He went to ground, made contact and the ball went away because it hit Semenyo’s leg on the way down. 
 

The one involving Scott was odd. Seemed there was a penalty shout about 10 seconds prior with the melee in the box and then when it got cleared the ref wasn’t giving anything. Maybe he was playing an advantage but it wasn’t really clear and it wasn’t much of an advantage anyway, as they were on the edge of their own box! Ref only blew the whistle after the Swansea player had attempted to headbutt Scott. So if that was the offence he was blowing for (and for which the player was booked) then why is that not a penalty? If he’s played the advantage then the Swansea foul is surely in the next phase of play? Surely he should only call back an advantage if the player didn’t gain an advantage? Which wasn’t the case 

Two incidents summed up how Referees go about their days work when Reffing us.

The one above, where the injured player doesn't have to leave the pitch and the one where their player gets booked and gets a free kick.

I'd love to see the assessors report and the refs reply, another letter incoming 

[Midred]

3 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Two incidents summed up how Referees go about their days work when Reffing us.

The one above, where the injured player doesn't have to leave the pitch and the one where their player gets booked and gets a free kick.

I'd love to see the assessors report and the refs reply, another letter incoming 

Trouble is that no apology ever changes the match result.

[ollywhyte]

Does anyone have an updated graphic of the penalties awarded? Remember it being pretty damning 6 months ago so, can’t imagine what it’s like now 

Id love to see a compilation of our potential penalty decisions in the same period for context (any keen analysts?!)

[Denbury Red]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

Agree he waited far too long to get a card out. It was clear from the start that part of their game plan was to simply stop Conway and Scott by whatever means necessary.

The trainer incident and not leaving the field was interesting: pretty sure that something similar happened at Coventry. Second half when a Swansea player needed attention he was made to leave the field. I assume refs have some sort of discretion, but no idea what the criteria are meant to be. 

If you’re referring to their player not leaving the field when being treated by the trainer - that’s because a Yellow card was shown for the tackle and under those situations the player doesn’t have to leave the field.  Them’s the rules!

[kit]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Rules were changed a few years back - if the injured player was fouled and the offender is cautioned (yellow / red) then the injured player does not need to go off the pitch.

I thought that was the rule but I rarely, if ever, see a player not having to leave the pitch after an opposition player is cautioned and they've received treatment. 

[Midred]

Man city awarded handball penalty by use of VAR!

[alexukhc]

Imagine giving a yellow for a foul on a player in the box but not giving a penalty, only Bristol City

[italian dave]

3 minutes ago, Denbury Red said:

If you’re referring to their player not leaving the field when being treated by the trainer - that’s because a Yellow card was shown for the tackle and under those situations the player doesn’t have to leave the field.  Them’s the rules!

Ah, OK, thanks. I didn't realise that. @1960maaan - here's our answer!

[Denbury Red]

11 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Two incidents summed up how Referees go about their days work when Reffing us.

The one above, where the injured player doesn't have to leave the pitch and the one where their player gets booked and gets a free kick.

I'd love to see the assessors report and the refs reply, another letter incoming 

I’ve just got home (live in S Devon) and watched the highlights on BBC - the Semenyo one looks a stonewall pen - their player takes Semenyo out and definitively doesn’t get any of the ball and Pawson was well placed to see that. I really think Prem refs have got so used to using VAR they are not good enough to ref without it!

Either bring VAR into the Championship or don’t give us Prem refs!

[italian dave]

4 minutes ago, Denbury Red said:

If you’re referring to their player not leaving the field when being treated by the trainer - that’s because a Yellow card was shown for the tackle and under those situations the player doesn’t have to leave the field.  Them’s the rules!

There was a chart doing the rounds about 6 months ago that showed the number of minutes played per penalty for about 8 leagues across Europe - is that the one? We were far and away the highest. But I don't think that's been updated since - I had a look a week or two ago and could only find the data from way back then.

[TV Tom]

11 minutes ago, italian dave said:

There was a chart doing the rounds about 6 months ago that showed the number of minutes played per penalty for about 8 leagues across Europe - is that the one? We were far and away the highest. But I don't think that's been updated since - I had a look a week or two ago and could only find the data from way back then.

We were 600th out of 600 in waiting the longest for a penalty and that was round about March, it was about the same time as Oxford were awarded four penalties in one game at Gillingham!!!!

[Open End Numb Legs]

Clearly we don't have enough South American players in the team.

[italian dave]

4 minutes ago, harrys said:

We were 600th out of 600 in waiting the longest for a penalty and that was round about March, it was about the same time as Oxford were awarded four penalties in one game at Gillingham!!!!

I think this was the one I saw - looks at

a) penalties per minute played and

b) penalties per "big chance" - not sure how that's defined, but presumably it tries to factor in how many times you create attacking chances generally, which seems fair.

Any which way, we are top/bottom by a mile. It's a year out of date though. A year in which we haven't had a penalty though!

https://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2021/wp364/en/

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, harrys said:

We were 600th out of 600 in waiting the longest for a penalty and that was round about March, it was about the same time as Oxford were awarded four penalties in one game at Gillingham!!!!

I thought the chart actually surfaced around January time ie a year back? So God knows now!

[Midred]

3 minutes ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

Clearly we don't have enough South American players in the team.

Or Portuguese!

[1960maaan]

Just watched these highlights , Semenyo & Atkinson look easy Pens to give and the only way I can explain the other one?
The Ref saw a foul by us , played advantage then called it back to book the defender .....

But the Ref doesn't wave play on, he never points as though to give a free kick . Just books the defender and gives him the kick.

Pathetic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/64165605

 

[Vidal]

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Just watched these highlights , Semenyo & Atkinson look easy Pens to give and the only way I can explain the other one?
The Ref saw a foul by us , played advantage then called it back to book the defender .....

But the Ref doesn't wave play on, he never points as though to give a free kick . Just books the defender and gives him the kick.

Pathetic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/64165605

 

Exactly. So should be 3 pens. 

[LondonBristolian]

Genuinely starting to wonder if all PGMOL-affiliated officials have a longstanding bet going on and whoever finally caves in and gives us a penalty has to pay every other referees' mortgages and/or rent for a year...

[Numero Uno]

The Semenyo one was a pen but you can see why it might be missed by the ref. The Atkinson one is a disgrace. That’s got to go straight in to PGMOL with an explanation requested.

[sh1t_ref_again]

Nigel Pearson was left to sarcastically question whether there had been a rule change after Bristol City were denied a number of penalties in their FA Cup draw with Swansea.

He said: "We had a go in both halves. Two penalty decisions... no idea why they weren't given in the first half. Let's not waste energy on them.

"Every set-play or every time something goes into their box, they are actually allowed to grab our players and pull them to the ground. I wasn't aware there was a rule change, to be honest with you but there seems to be a rule change that we weren't aware of.

[Numero Uno]

When the opposition manager says “they had a couple of penalty shouts” that’s as close to an admission as you’ll ever get that we should have been awarded two penalties.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I didn't know that, but I didn't think a foul was given let alone a card, as the ball was cleared and both teams played on. So I was wrong in my assumption, and the Ref was just plain wrong . 

Naismith was booked, therefore Piroe didn’t need to leave the field of play.

50 minutes ago, kit said:

I thought that was the rule but I rarely, if ever, see a player not having to leave the pitch after an opposition player is cautioned and they've received treatment. 

I think most refs have forgotten it.

[Denbury Red]

Just seen penalty awarded to Man City for the 4th goal - if that's given then we had at least two clear cut today - totally baffling!

[Midred]

6 minutes ago, Denbury Red said:

Just seen penalty awarded to Man City for the 4th goal - if that's given then we had at least two clear cut today - totally baffling!

Perhaps they're all sharing our penalties shouts out!

[Dan Robin]

39 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Genuinely starting to wonder if all PGMOL-affiliated officials have a longstanding bet going on and whoever finally caves in and gives us a penalty has to pay every other referees' mortgages and/or rent for a year...

Waiting for the betting value of "penalty given to Bristol City" to further increase: when it will guarantee a great amount of money, one of them will give us a penalty - probably an invented one, like a a handball after a corner - and the referees involved will pay - and gain - a lot of money (obviously asking a close person to bet for them). Risky, but if cheating players can do it...why not?

It's the more realistic explanation. If there is another one, surely it's not "oh well, they are poor" or "ah we are so unlucky" anymore.

[1960maaan]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Naismith was booked, therefore Piroe didn’t need to leave the field of play

I just realised Was getting mixed up with the Naismith foul (definite booking) and the one the Ref stopped the game for the Swansea player having a knock to the back. Another baffling decision IMO, I thought we had the ball and he stopped play to give their keeper the ball.

[sh1t_ref_again]

Someone going to win a lot of money on the penalty sweep stake, with another roll over

[Midred]

4 minutes ago, Midred said:

Perhaps they're all sharing our penalties shouts out!

Wouldn't it be great if on motd tonight they analysed why our non VAR penalties weren't given instead of spending hours analysing the VAR  penalties given in the PL?

[sh1t_ref_again]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

I just realised Was getting mixed up with the Naismith foul (definite booking) and the one the Ref stopped the game for the Swansea player having a knock to the back. Another baffling decision IMO, I thought we had the ball and he stopped play to give their keeper the ball.

I commented on this at the time (so did my wife about my language directed at the TV), we had the ball looking to start another attack, ref stopped play for non serious or head injury, player got up and walked off with physio ready to come back on, ref gives drop ball to keeper.

[Supersonic Robin]

27 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Nigel Pearson was left to sarcastically question whether there had been a rule change after Bristol City were denied a number of penalties in their FA Cup draw with Swansea.

He said: "We had a go in both halves. Two penalty decisions... no idea why they weren't given in the first half. Let's not waste energy on them.

"Every set-play or every time something goes into their box, they are actually allowed to grab our players and pull them to the ground. I wasn't aware there was a rule change, to be honest with you but there seems to be a rule change that we weren't aware of.

I appreciate Pearson sort of has to take this line, but I'd love to see us get really aggressive on the whole penalty thing.

I'm f****** sick of it. It's farcical and it's costing us points (or in this case, cup progression).

I'm at the point now where I'd support the club/players in kicking up as much fuss as possible.

• Let's instruct the media team to post a stonewaller we haven't been awarded on twitter every day and tag the the EFL in it.
• Let's have the players warm up in T shirts that read "428 days since our last competitive penalty".
• Let's even delay the start of our next game by 10 minutes in a protest where our players refuse to enter the pitch.

It's absolutely unacceptable and not something to be quiet and stoic about. At best, it's incomprehensibly imbalanced incompetence from officials. At worst, it's suspicious and calls into question the integrity of the entire league.

[Vidal]

10 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

I appreciate Pearson sort of has to take this line, but I'd love to see us get really aggressive on the whole penalty thing.

I'm f****** sick of it. It's farcical and it's costing us points (or in this case, cup progression).

I'm at the point now where I'd support the club/players in kicking up as much fuss as possible.

• Let's instruct the media team to post a stonewaller we haven't been awarded on twitter every day and tag the the EFL in it.
• Let's have the players warm up in T shirts that read "428 days since our last competitive penalty".
• Let's even delay the start of our next game by 10 minutes in a protest where our players refuse to enter the pitch.

It's absolutely unacceptable and not something to be quiet and stoic about. At best, it's incomprehensibly imbalanced incompetence from officials. At worst, it's suspicious and calls into question the integrity of the entire league.

We should be doing this anyway, even more so on the pitch. If we get an appeal when the ball is dead players should flood the ref, put him under pressure, intimidate him. What ref has the bottle to book 7/8/9 players in one go? It doesn’t happen.

We are too nice, we know refs are weak and will favour those who scare them. More Roy Keane 90s Man Utd please.

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I just realised Was getting mixed up with the Naismith foul (definite booking) and the one the Ref stopped the game for the Swansea player having a knock to the back. Another baffling decision IMO, I thought we had the ball and he stopped play to give their keeper the ball.

That was indeed baffling….I was sat in the wheelchair area right behind the practice net, and gave the ref pelters.

[Lew-T]

1 minute ago, Vidal said:

We should be doing this anyway, even more so on the pitch. If we get an appeal when the ball is dead players should flood the ref, put him under pressure, intimidate him. What ref has the bottle to book 7/8/9 players in one go? It doesn’t happen.

We are too nice, we know refs are weak and will favour those who scare them. More Roy Keane 90s Man Utd please.

This is a problem that needs addressing. Swansea made a number of fouls in the first half today, not one City player asking/pestering the ref to take some action. Swansea were then starting to kick the ball away, yet again no City player taking action.

Naismith made a foul later into the first half, and you could see the difference…

[AppyDAZE]

Only just seen the one on Atkinson again. 

That's a pen all day long,. I've changed my mind.

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, Vidal said:

We should be doing this anyway, even more so on the pitch. If we get an appeal when the ball is dead players should flood the ref, put him under pressure, intimidate him. What ref has the bottle to book 7/8/9 players in one go? It doesn’t happen.

We are too nice, we know refs are weak and will favour those who scare them. More Roy Keane 90s Man Utd please.

Crowd need to play their part too. Really be proactive, holler- yell- there were little smatterings of anger after the first 2 penalty shouts were turned down but this regressed and dissipated sharply.

Some of this is a bit intangible but it's a team effort. Get right into the officials, noise- anger. Righteous anger at our current raw deal.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[sh1t_ref_again]

Watching MOD and seen penalty given to Stevenage against villa by VAR be interesting if they look at ours and what they think in comparison to our shouts

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just been on.

All it showed was Swansea's goal, our equaliser and the late save from Wells.

[italian dave]

33 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Watching MOD and seen penalty given to Stevenage against villa by VAR be interesting if they look at ours and what they think in comparison to our shouts

Definitely: and there have been several penalties over the course of the 3rd round weekend that just add to the feeling of grievance that we all have. 

[Midred]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just been on.

All it showed was Swansea's goal, our equaliser and the late save from Wells.

As I predicted, none of the penalty shouts shown! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Midred said:

As I predicted, none of the penalty shouts shown! 

Was really just in the round up of goals shown, one of that category of games tbh.

[Midred]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Was really just in the round up of goals shown, one of that category of games tbh.

I know the amount of time spent on the first three games and the VAR interventions just kind of rubbed it in! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, Midred said:

I know the amount of time spent on the first three games and the VAR interventions just kind of rubbed it in! 

Agreed.

If Man City's 2nd was a penalty then wow both Atkinson and Semenyo claims were. I had doubts about the latter but if that's the benchmark.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Oizys]

All those talk of penalties.... We all know full well that when we finally get one we'llmiss!

[Olé]

22 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Definitely: and there have been several penalties over the course of the 3rd round weekend that just add to the feeling of grievance that we all have. 

As per the post you were replying to - that Stevenage one... wow. As brilliantly as they've done and as romantic as the story is, that penalty could have gone either way and was anything but clear cut. For it to be penalty and red card when it's exactly the sort of indifferent and (to referees at least) debatable shout we continually don't get penalties for. It's like we are being trolled by all of football.

[Major Isewater]

Craig Poorson

 

[Lew-T]

The first shout on Semenyo, it’s just laughable. Sliding tackle from behind in the box, didn’t get the ball…

Play on…