Man City - no, not tickets, but dodgy stuff…as if!!!

[Davefevs]

Blige.

give us a bye to the QFs!

[Northern Red]

[Selred]

Kick them out the FA cup. And ban them from signing players, particularly ones from Channel Islands, for at least 20 years.

[Super]

This could be massive if it holds up.

[Curr Avon]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Blige.

give us a bye to the QFs!

Every little helps Dave!

Seriously though, is a big points deduction in the offing?

 

[View from the Dolman]

The screenshot in the tweet is only some of the allegations... it's quite a charge sheet.

Quote

In accordance with Premier League Rule W.82.1, the Premier League confirms that it has today referred a number of alleged breaches of the Premier League Rules by Manchester City Football Club (Club) to a Commission under Premier League Rule W.3.4.

Details of the Premier League Rules that the Club is alleged to have breached are as follows:

1. In respect of each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those seasons that required provision by a member club to the Premier League, in the utmost good faith, of accurate financial information that gives a true and fair view of the club’s financial position, in particular with respect to its revenue (including sponsorship revenue), its related parties and its operating costs, namely:
(a) for Season 2009/10, Premier League Rules B.13, C.71, C.72, C.75 (amended to C.79 from 10 September 2009 for the remainder of Season 2009/10) and C.80;
(b) for Season 2010/11, Premier League Rules B.13, C.78, C.79, C.86 and C.87;
(c) for Season 2011/12, Premier League Rules B.13, E.3, 4, E.11 and E.12;
(d) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules 16, E.3, E.4, E.11 and E.12;
(e) for Season 2013/14, Premier League Rules 15, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.49;
(f) for Season 2014/15, Premier League Rules 16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.50;
(g) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules 16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.50;
(h) for Season 2016/17, Premier League Rules16, E.3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.51; and
(i) for Season 2017/18, Premier League Rules B.16, 3, E.4, E.11, E.12 and E.51.

2. In respect of:
(a) each of Seasons 2009/10 to 2012/13 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of manager remuneration in its relevant contracts with its manager, namely:
  (1) for Seasons 2009/10 to 2011/12 inclusive, Premier League Rules Q.7 and Q.8; and
  (2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules P.7 and P.8; and
(b) each of Seasons 2010/11 to 2015/16 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to include full details of player remuneration in its relevant contracts with its players, namely:
  (1) for Seasons 2010/11 and 2011/12, Premier League Rules K.12 and K.20;
  (2) for Season 2012/13, Premier League Rules T.12 and T.20;
  (3) for Seasons 2013/14 and 2014/15, Premier League Rules T.12 and T.19; and
  (4) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules T.13 and T.20.

3. In respect of each of Seasons 2013/14 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons requiring a member club to comply with UEFA’s regulations, including UEFA’s Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations, namely:
(a) for Season 2013/14, Premier League Rule B.14.6; and
(b) for Seasons 2014/15 to 2017/18 inclusive, Premier League Rule B.15.6.

4. In respect of each of the Seasons 2015/16 to 2017/18 inclusive, the Premier League Rules applicable in those Seasons on Profitability and Sustainability, namely:
(a) for Season 2015/16, Premier League Rules E.52 to E.60; and
(b) for Seasons 2016/17 and 2017/18, Premier League Rules E.53 to E.60.

5. In respect of the period from December 2018 to date, the Premier League Rules applicable in the relevant Seasons requiring a member club to cooperate with, and assist, the Premier League in its investigations, including by providing documents and information to the Premier League in the utmost good faith, namely:
(a) for Season 2018/19, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(b) for Season 2019/20, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(c) for Season 2020/21, Premier League Rules B.16, B.19, W.1, W.2, W.12 and W.13;
(d) for Season 2021/22, Premier League Rules B.15, B.18, W.1, W.2, W.15 and W.16; and
(e) for Season 2022/23, Premier League Rules B.15, B.18, W.1, W.2, W.15 and W.16. 

Commissions are independent of the Premier League and member clubs. The members of the Commission will be appointed by the independent Chair of the Premier League Judicial Panel, in accordance with Premier League Rules W.19, W.20 and W.26.

The proceedings before the Commission will, in accordance with Premier League Rule W.82, be confidential and heard in private. Under Premier League Rule W.82.2, the Commission’s final award will be published on the Premier League’s website.

This confirmation is made in accordance with Premier League Rule W.82.1. The Premier League will be making no further comment in respect of this matter until further notice.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/3045970

 

[ExiledAjax]

Jesus, the best part of a decade of misreporting.

Points deduction is the only thing that hurts them really. They can pay any fine that can be levied, and a transfer embargo does bugger all to hurt a club with their squad and their academy. The only thing that hurts them is a points deduction sufficient to exclude them from European football.

Ziegler suggests they could be expelled form the league. I think that's very unlikely tbh but probably is possible under the PL Rules.

Then other interesting point is that this might mean that UEFA can bring fresh charges against them for the 2017/18 season. Their previous case with UEFA concerned seasons 2012 through to 2016. They 'won' that eventually when they had a two-year ban from European club competitions overturned by the Court of Arbitration for Sport (Cas), after UEFA had ruled that they committed "serious breaches" of Financial Fair Play (FFP). I doubt they can be retried on anything in those seasons, but for those outside of that timeframe there's probably a chance of UEFA going at them again.

Edited February 6, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Super]

Just now, Curr Avon said:

Every little helps Dave!

Seriously though, is a big points deduction in the offing?

 

Strip them of titles?

[Dredd]

Be pretty convenient if they get a points deduction in the season where they aren't running away with the league

[ohhhshauntaylor]

I would suspect, Man City appeal to the CAS, and the outcome is a heavy fine/suspended sentence and future monitoring.

It's morally wrong, but that's what usually happens!

Edited February 6, 2023 by ohhhshauntaylor
Spelling

[cider-manc]

3 minutes ago, Selred said:

Kick them out the FA cup. And ban them from signing players, particularly ones from Channel Islands, for at least 20 years.

Personally, I'd suggest waiting until the player from the channel island runs rings round KDB.

Pep - who's fuming at being turned over at ashton gate - pays 100 million for said player (100m as he will be an fa cup winner by May obvs).

[The Coach]

Would love to see what Chelsea have been up to then

[chinapig]

Man City can afford the best lawyers. They could drag this out for years.

Their fans like to claim they were cleared of the UEFA charges but iirc CAS found one offence to be time barred and another not proven. Not quite the same as not guilty then.

[TonyTonyTony]

Got to hit them hard, rather than fining them. Teach them a lesson. Chelsea gotta be bricking it as well surely? 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

I would suspect, Man City appeal to the CAS, and the outcome is a heavy fine/suspended sentence and future monitoring.

It's morally wrong, but that's what usually happens!

I don't know if PL regs allow for appeal to the CAS.

I know EFL ones don't. This is unprecedented however.

[The Bard]

In this country we've always tried to occupy the moral high ground. This sort of thing is the preserve of Italy / Spain etc. Everyone knows they're corrupt.

 

Turns out that its hypocritical horseshit. The most dominant sides in football and Rugby cheated without any consequence for years. 

Saracens got away with it. Obviously Man City will too. 

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

Every little helps Dave!

Seriously though, is a big points deduction in the offing?

 

No, but Rotherham are t very happy with Bailey Wright getting a 3-game ban!

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, The Bard said:

In this country we've always tried to occupy the moral high ground. This sort of thing is the preserve of Italy / Spain etc. Everyone knows they're corrupt.

 

Turns out that its hypocritical horseshit. The most dominant sides in football and Rugby cheated without any consequence for years. 

Saracens got away with it. Obviously Man City will too. 

Saracens did not get away with it in the end.

[The Original OTIB]

9 minutes ago, Super said:

Strip them of titles?

Unlikely, but if you take things to their logical conclusion, then you would. If it were a "smaller" club (i.e., without trophies in recent times), you know what would happen. There would be many more sanctions, obviously not including titles, but they would get thrown down the league pyramid at least.

Edited February 6, 2023 by The Original OTIB
additional

[chinapig]

,

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I don't know if PL regs allow for appeal to the CAS.

I know EFL ones don't. This is unprecedented however.

No doubt you're right, I was illustrating the victim attitude of their fans. Hence them booing the Champions League anthem.

[Port Said Red]

At the least there should be penalties........

 

To us, two in front of the Atyeo and two in front of the South Stand.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Okay this also raised a quite interesting question.

Statute of limitations?? To what extent therefore can the Foorball League under the same aligned P&S regs therefore revisit the Aston Villa to 2019, perhaps the Wolves to 2018 although I'm unsure that was a 2018, Fulham to last year? Stoke recorded some huge losses albeit less problem there owing to Covid, list goes on.

Nottingham Forest to last year- PL with Everton?

Ironically I don't think Bournemouth breached to 2022 but will be of interest to see their 2022 numbers as well.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

I would suspect, Man City appeal to the CAS, and the outcome is a heavy fine/suspended sentence and future monitoring.

It's morally wrong, but that's what usually happens!

See below - it may not be appealable to CAS .

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

Man City can afford the best lawyers. They could drag this out for years.

Their fans like to claim they were cleared of the UEFA charges but iirc CAS found one offence to be time barred and another not proven. Not quite the same as not guilty then.

They have an in-house team of about 8 lawyers anyway. Plus they will no doubt hire the same barristers and Freshfields who helped them last time. However, the PL obviously have a little bit of cash to send the lawyers' way as well.

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I don't know if PL regs allow for appeal to the CAS.

I know EFL ones don't. This is unprecedented however.

First appeal would be to an "Appeal Board". Rule W.79 says that "Subject to the provisions of Section X of these Rules (Arbitration), the decision of an Appeal Board shall be final.". I've not got time to dig through Section X and through the Arbitration Act 1996 to which it refers, but a skim read shows that they are trying pretty hard to make sure decisions are final and a re not appealable to CAS.

[cider-manc]

11 minutes ago, Super said:

Strip them of titles?

Nope. That would mean Liverpool would have at least 3 more and no one would ever hear the end of it!

[Davefevs]

Just now, cider-manc said:

Nope. That would mean Liverpool would have at least 3 more and no one would ever hear the end of it!

Bring it on

[2015]

9 minutes ago, The Bard said:

In this country we've always tried to occupy the moral high ground. This sort of thing is the preserve of Italy / Spain etc. Everyone knows they're corrupt.

 

Turns out that its hypocritical horseshit. The most dominant sides in football and Rugby cheated without any consequence for years. 

Saracens got away with it. Obviously Man City will too. 

Juventus recently deducted 15 points. At least Italy deal fair punishments out these days. The Big 6 in England can do what they like, the FA is scared of losing them to the Super League now.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Juventus recently deducted 15 points. At least Italy deal fair punishments out these days. The Big 6 in England can do what they like, the FA is scared of losing them to the Super League now.

I'd say Italy have set a good example, template for the League here. Premier League now need to push for strong sanctions indeed.

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Juventus recently deducted 15 points. At least Italy deal fair punishments out these days. The Big 6 in England can do what they like, the FA is scared of losing them to the Super League now.

Bu the interesting thing here is that it's the Premier League accusing them, not the FA. The Premier League is, in effect, the other 19 clubs going against one of their own. 

Oh and just so we're all clear. *cough* independent regulation asap please *cough*.

[Mr Popodopolous]

https://www.premierleague.com/news/3045970

The statement, some of the finer detail. Not read it myself yet.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[The Bard]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Saracens did not get away with it in the end.

They absolutely did.

• Kept all their titles.  
• Chose their own punishment to suit them, ie relegation to a division that only played half a season during lockdown. 
• RFU agreed that their players would be picked for England even though they weren't playing club rugby.  Very handy to give them a bit of rest but keep them playing.

They're back from their 'punishment' with their ridiculously strong squad still apparently within a £5million salary cap.  If you believe that then you probably think Joey Barton is a saint.

A proper punishment would have been banishment for 5 years so that their big earners all left as well stripping them of all titles.  Start again in 4th tier or somewhere.