Is this not unfair state subsidy??

[REDOXO]

3 hours ago, Baba Yaga said:

I don't think the entire 25m is for the new stand, sounds like it's for other things too, also the funding is not completely from the Welsh gov?

https://news.wrexham.gov.uk/councillors-consider-new-package-to-finance-key-parts-of-wrexham-gateway-project-including-new-kop/

To be fair if it means hosting international games in North Wales again then the gov could chuck a bit a few million at improving the stand and it wouldn't hurt.

I think you nailed it there. The two American lads (Lowe/Mcillheny) have really pushed the Oldest International Stadium in the world thing a lot on the Wrexham show. 
 

The grant is almost certainly in view of some Welsh Internationals in more than one sport and gender. If we had Ashton Vale we may have been able to get similar grants too, particularly as there was talk of it at the time. 
 

Did City get any grants for the AG refurbishment? If not someone missed a trick. 

[Glen hump]

3 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

As regards to the racecourse hosting wales games, maybe one meaningless friendly a year, Swansea don't take much business of the millennium do they, 

Wales haven’t played at the millennium for years, play at cardiffs ground.

[East Londoner]

Personally find Cardiff and Swansea being given free/very heavily subsidised stadiums more galling. Swansea were struggling in the bottom two tiers but get gifted a new stadium and within a few years are in the top flight. And Cardiff went from being heavily in debt in an old stadium to also getting to the premier league 

It’s also strange how they give they whole proud to be welsh thing but not proud enough to play in the welsh league 

[GrahamC]

Already happened with Swansea, council bought the land with EU funds, built the stadium then leased it back to Swansea & the rugby team for a nominal rent, it might even be as low as £1 a year.

The more you know about how much public money Wales gets comparatively to England the more angry you’ll get, it’s an absolute scandal.

Remember playing veterans football once Caerleon way, the opposition said the pitches were free for them & they got public money for a new changing room, it’s a farce.

[Red-Robbo]

4 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

The population of Wrexham is about 130,000. Wrexham attendances around 10,000.

There will be a lot of people struggling with Council Tax among other things that have no interest in Football, they would be rightly pissed off at funding the Football Club which is owned by a multi millionaire . Add in Reynolds made a reported £22m for Deadpool , I would be more than slightly miffed.
If you were wondering, Rob McElhenney  has a net worth of $50 million.

Imagine if R*vers or us were given a massive input of Council money and not the other, that's how non football fans would feel.

 

The Welsh government spends more than £2.5bn every year, it has substantial revenue raising powers. This is a drop in the ocean to it.

But, as has been said, it will be calculated to bring long-term economic benefit to one of the more deprived area of Wales, not just to the club concerned. 

[1960maaan]

Just now, Red-Robbo said:

 

The Welsh government spends more than £2.5bn every year, it has substantial revenue raising powers. This is a drop in the ocean to it.

But, as has been said, it will be calculated to bring long-term economic benefit to one of the more deprived area of Wales, not just to the club concerned. 

I take your point, but if I was a local seeing money going to a Club ran by multi Millionaires, and I had no interest in the Sport I think I would be questioning my Council tax.

[REDOXO]

8 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Already happened with Swansea, council bought the land with EU funds, built the stadium then leased it back to Swansea & the rugby team for a nominal rent, it might even be as low as £1 a year.

The more you know about how much public money Wales gets comparatively to England the more angry you’ll get, it’s an absolute scandal.

Remember playing veterans football once Caerleon way, the opposition said the pitches were free for them & they got public money for a new changing room, it’s a farce.

When you have a devolved country/government the drive to do things for your country/communities is strong, particularly as the English are paying. 
 

The issue is the English will mumble and grumble but won’t stand up and say ‘what about us’.  Bristol City council maybe good maybe bad, it depends who you talk to, but their remit is to small and Bristol isn’t considered to be the under privileged dump (riot fest) it was when I was young, in part to SL!

[REDOXO]

6 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I take your point, but if I was a local seeing money going to a Club ran by multi Millionaires, and I had no interest in the Sport I think I would be questioning my Council tax.

As I said on this or another thread, the money which is divied out to a myriad of causes across the UK that the average bloke knows nothing and cares not to know of is quite literally biliions and billions.
 

Wrexham FC had the moxy to apply and make a case that the money would be spent on National (Welsh) good as well as local and made their case covertly on National TV. Oldest International Stadium in the World has been said over a dozen times, the message was sent loud and clear. 

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

When you have a devolved country/government the drive to do things for your country/communities is strong, particularly as the English are paying. 
 

The issue is the English will mumble and grumble but won’t stand up and say ‘what about us’.  Bristol City council maybe good maybe bad, it depends who you talk to, but their remit is to small and Bristol isn’t considered to be the under privileged dump (riot fest) it was when I was young, in part to SL!

That’s true, but some parts of Bristol are still incredibly deprived.

For a person who lives in Hartcliffe & works 40 hours a week to have to pay tax on just £25k or so that then enables someone on £100k a year in Cardiff to have free prescriptions & capped tuition fees for their kid is simply disgusting.

[REDOXO]

4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

That’s true, but some parts of Bristol are still incredibly deprived.

For a person who lives in Hartcliffe & works 40 hours a week to have to pay tax on just £25k or so that then enables someone on £100k a year in Cardiff to have free prescriptions & capped tuition fees for their kid is simply disgusting.

Fight harder. Your corner is your corner. I agree life is not fair and Bristol still has under privileged circumstances in some places but no one is offering anything without application and a fight. 
 

A properly devolved government for the region is what I would be advocating. It’s worked ok Scotland and Wales, NI gets what it wants regardless of who is killing whom!
 

 

[Red-Robbo]

30 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I take your point, but if I was a local seeing money going to a Club ran by multi Millionaires, and I had no interest in the Sport I think I would be questioning my Council tax.

 

The bulk of their income, the Welsh government's I mean, not the millionaires!, is gained from retaining some of the income tax raised in Wales. They are allowed to do this because, under devolved powers, they have to pay for some things that are provided by national government in England.

As has been pointed out, Wrexham aren't the only club to have benefitted from a grant from local, regional, national or even UK government.

Furthermore, Wrexham's owners may be rich, but how much of their assets are liquid enough to pay for a £25m project, I don't know. This cash would have to be approved by the Senedd, which I very much doubt has a majority of Wrexham fans on it, so the cash would have to have been adjudged to benefit more than just the denizens of the Racecourse Ground. 

[bcfc01]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I take your point, but if I was a local seeing money going to a Club ran by multi Millionaires, and I had no interest in the Sport I think I would be questioning my Council tax.

Is it council money or Welsh Government ?

I'd be surprised if it was council money.

[Mr Chappers]

It’s Welsh Government money, in the form of a loan, and seems a far better investment than throwing money at Party Donors in exchange for very little

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 hours ago, GrahamC said:

That’s true, but some parts of Bristol are still incredibly deprived.

For a person who lives in Hartcliffe & works 40 hours a week to have to pay tax on just £25k or so that then enables someone on £100k a year in Cardiff to have free prescriptions & capped tuition fees for their kid is simply disgusting.

How did this Settlement come about exactly? Devolution I assume.

I've only done quick Google searches but it seems to me that in England we get less spent per capita than Wales but also Scotland and Northern Ireland.

I wonder too if part of it is that in Scotland and Wales they at devolved level elect more left wing leadership than UK as a whole . What would a standalone English Parliament yield I wonder, would it be more right wing fiscally in composition perhaps. Who might not be pro some of the items that you describe.

Say e.g. tomorrow we had an English Parliament and the Tories were the main party in it, would they be pledging capped tuition fees or free prescriptions.

On a more local note, Bristol as a whole does seem to be quite underserved. The arena debacle over many years, the useless deadlocked council, the Mayor and Metro Mayor...nothing has really worked or changed much in terms of extra Government investment etc it seems.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Hxj]

30 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How did this Settlement come about exactly? Devolution I assume.

All to do with the Barnett Formula.  Barnett formula | Institute for Government

[Mr Popodopolous]

20 minutes ago, Hxj said:

All to do with the Barnett Formula.  Barnett formula | Institute for Government

Thanks. Will have a look later...

[ScottishRed]

19 hours ago, GrahamC said:

That’s true, but some parts of Bristol are still incredibly deprived.

For a person who lives in Hartcliffe & works 40 hours a week to have to pay tax on just £25k or so that then enables someone on £100k a year in Cardiff to have free prescriptions & capped tuition fees for their kid is simply disgusting.

That is devolution for you. It is exactly the same in my homeland. I can’t speak for Wales but in Scotland there are a lot of things eg prescription fees that are free yet down here the costs keep increasing.

It is effectively ‘bribing’ the electorate which the SNP are masters of despite middle earners paying more tax than elsewhere in the UK.

Recent events may result in a re-set however.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

Is it just me or does £25m seem steep for 5500 seats?  

 

[GrahamC]

35 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

That is devolution for you. It is exactly the same in my homeland. I can’t speak for Wales but in Scotland there are a lot of things eg prescription fees that are free yet down here the costs keep increasing.

It is effectively ‘bribing’ the electorate which the SNP are masters of despite middle earners paying more tax than elsewhere in the UK.

Recent events may result in a re-set however.

It isn’t, as has already been explained it is the Barnett formula or as it should be called in Wales “free money”.

[Mr Popodopolous]

39 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

It isn’t, as has already been explained it is the Barnett formula or as it should be called in Wales “free money”.

In order it goes, as per a quick search anyway- less to most.

England

Wales

Scotland

NI

That said a quick search could be wrong and am about to read Barnett Formula link...doubtful a devolved Tory Government in an English only Parliament would be especially more generous.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[ScottishRed]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

It isn’t, as has already been explained it is the Barnett formula or as it should be called in Wales “free money”.

How devolved governments spend the money they receive from the Barnett formula is their decision.