Europa Conference League Final

[The Journalist]

When you consider how hard it is to finish in the Premier League's top six/seven - as demonstrated by the celebrations at Aston Villa and Brighton in recent weeks - for West Ham to be in European competition for a third season in a row having got to the Europa League semi-finals and then won the Conference League...

I think that's a pretty huge achievement and up there with any English team outside the absolute elite clubs in terms of sustained success over three seasons. I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

Just to add, too, that as a supporter football is all about moments. And my god they've had some special moments as a fanbase recently.

Edited June 8, 2023 by The Journalist

[SecretSam]

Delighted for our old boy Moyesie. Not the world's biggest West Ham fan, but well done to them. But mostly pleased for Moyesie.

[mozo]

West Ham are officially the best 7th placed team in Europe. What an amazing achievement. 

They may as well call it the European Slightly Above Average Cup...

[mozo]

21 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

When you consider how hard it is to finish in the Premier League's top six/seven - as demonstrated by the celebrations at Aston Villa and Brighton in recent weeks - for West Ham to be in European competition for a third season in a row having got to the Europa League semi-finals and then won the Conference League...

I think that's a pretty huge achievement and up there with any English team outside the absolute elite clubs in terms of sustained success over three seasons. I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

Just to add, too, that as a supporter football is all about moments. And my god they've had some special moments as a fanbase recently.

I do respectfully, strongly disagree.

It's also difficult to finish 8th in the Prem. Maybe we should create a European cup competition for all the 8th placed teams too?

It devalues European competitions. They're not special. They're for average teams.

[Bristol Oil Services]

10 hours ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

Moyesie going full on "David Pleat, Maine Road" here, his orgasmic, joyous abandon explained by the fact that despite a very respectable managerial record at the top level, he'd never actually won anything. You can't do this (above) not even when steering Everton in to 4th place and the CL qualifying rounds in mid July.

 

[Major Isewater]

In the spirit of the thread how many other European clubs would have wanted to be in the Hammers place last night? 
Quite a lot is my guess so, mock the competition if you will , they have just won a competition that they entered alongside hundreds of other hopefuls. 
This isn’t the, laughingly called Champion’s League, but winning anything in professional football is an achievement. ( apart from the Watney’s cup ) 

[Tinmans Love Child]

People saying the euro competitions (excluding Champs League) are poor standard and also belittling the achievements of winning it, I wondered what do you think West Ham and all the other teams should do?  Not enter it?

I would love us to be in with a chance of playing some European teams, what an amazing measure for our clubs success to compete with other teams in Europe.  Yes it's not the champions league and yes it's not Barcelona or Munich or Madrid, but newsflash, the likes of West Ham (let alone us) will probably never dine at that top table, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a tournament for teams outside that top bracket.  West Ham and Fiorantina are still big big clubs, and it was great to see them play each other. 
 

Look at Brighton and Brentford etc, they are our recent peers and they have qualified or nearly qualified for Europe, how amazing is that for their fans!  If you hate these competitions you hate football and life if you ask me!

[mozo]

Just now, Tinmans Love Child said:

People saying the euro competitions (excluding Champs League) are poor standard and also belittling the achievements of winning it, I wondered what do you think West Ham and all the other teams should do?  Not enter it?

I think you're focusing on the wrong thing. Of course West Ham will join the competition, extra revenue will answer that question, and of course the fans will celebrate any success they get.

The point is that a competition whereby two 7th placed teams meet in the final, is not something to associate with European glory. This has replaced the old Cup Winner Cup which at least was winner vs winner.

When we won the Football League Trophy in 2015, did it feel like an FA Cup win? Or a League Cup win? No, the value was much lower. And the value of this thing West Ham won is pretty low in the scheme of things. Lower than the League Cup, I'd say.

[ChippenhamRed]

21 minutes ago, mozo said:

I think you're focusing on the wrong thing. Of course West Ham will join the competition, extra revenue will answer that question, and of course the fans will celebrate any success they get.

The point is that a competition whereby two 7th placed teams meet in the final, is not something to associate with European glory. This has replaced the old Cup Winner Cup which at least was winner vs winner.

When we won the Football League Trophy in 2015, did it feel like an FA Cup win? Or a League Cup win? No, the value was much lower. And the value of this thing West Ham won is pretty low in the scheme of things. Lower than the League Cup, I'd say.

Who cares about the value of it. So what? No one is claiming it’s as prestigious as the Champions League. The value comes from the experience it gives fans of European away days and a great night in a final like last night - experiences fans of clubs like West Ham would otherwise be much less likely to ever enjoy.

Winning the football league trophy didn’t feel like winning the FA Cup, obviously. But it gave us a great day out and a rare opportunity to play at Wembley - and actually celebrate winning something. It was fun.

If City were ever to make the PL, it’s not inconceivable that the Conference League might give us a chance to play European teams one day.

Lower tier competitions open up new experiences to fans of smaller clubs, rather than limiting those experiences to the same elite level clubs year in, year out. I think that’s a good thing, not something to sneer at.

[Major Isewater]

15 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

something to sneer at.

There are a lot of  snook cockers out there. I had to be very careful writing this. 
 

[mozo]

2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Who cares about the value of it. So what? No one is claiming it’s as prestigious as the Champions League. The value comes from the experience it gives fans of European away days and a great night in a final like last night - experiences fans of clubs like West Ham would otherwise be much less likely to ever enjoy.

Winning the football league trophy didn’t feel like winning the FA Cup, obviously. But it gave us a great day out and a rare opportunity to play at Wembley - and actually celebrate winning something. It was fun.

If City were ever to make the PL, it’s not inconceivable that the Conference League might give us a chance to play European teams one day.

Lower tier competitions open up new experiences to fans of smaller clubs, rather than limiting those experiences to the same elite level clubs year in, year out. I think that’s a good thing, not something to sneer at.

I agree with you, it's fun for the fans, but I'm just saying there's limited prestige and I'm surprised people would rate it as a notable achievement.

I also think that if you have too many European competitions it cheapen the kudos of getting into Europe. 

Presumably anyone that ranks this as a legitimate European conquest would also feel the same if a new cup competition was introduced for all the teams 8-10th in the Prem (versus European equivalents). Why not?

[mozo]

And we've already played in Europe 

[CiderJar]

He's been on the Irn-Bru and you love to see it...
 

 

[Tinmans Love Child]

3 hours ago, mozo said:

I think you're focusing on the wrong thing. Of course West Ham will join the competition, extra revenue will answer that question, and of course the fans will celebrate any success they get.

The point is that a competition whereby two 7th placed teams meet in the final, is not something to associate with European glory. This has replaced the old Cup Winner Cup which at least was winner vs winner.

When we won the Football League Trophy in 2015, did it feel like an FA Cup win? Or a League Cup win? No, the value was much lower. And the value of this thing West Ham won is pretty low in the scheme of things. Lower than the League Cup, I'd say.

How is the value low, how many trophies are up for grabs every season?  4 if you are in Europe.  That's it, just 3/4 opportunities for silverware between all the clubs.  To win one of those trophies is a great achievement, whether it be the Euro Conference or Prem, and should/is celebrated as such.

Yeh European football isn't the same as it was, but what is?  If you only want the winners of the leagues and cups to compete on the European stage to give it kudos I.e. like it was pre Champions League, then that ship has sailed.  You could argue it was easier to win back then as less games to play so actually a bigger achievement now, especially with the increased demands of the Prem.

The West Ham fans last night didn't look like they thought it was a lesser achievement, and I don't remember City fans at Wembley not loving the win.  Does winning League 1 mean less because it's not the Prem?  Should Wrexham wind it in because they've only got promoted to the league?  

I think you are focussing on the wrong thing to be honest.
 

[Tinmans Love Child]

42 minutes ago, mozo said:

I agree with you, it's fun for the fans, but I'm just saying there's limited prestige and I'm surprised people would rate it as a notable achievement.

I also think that if you have too many European competitions it cheapen the kudos of getting into Europe. 

Presumably anyone that ranks this as a legitimate European conquest would also feel the same if a new cup competition was introduced for all the teams 8-10th in the Prem (versus European equivalents). Why not?

Are you on the wind up?  We don't have anymore European comps than before, they have just rebadged them.  If winning a European trophy is not deemed notable then what is?  As per my other post I assume you don't recognise any form of achievement lower down the leagues as worthy of note?  Our double year, so what, it's not winning the Prem is it 

[mozo]

1 minute ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Are you on the wind up?  We don't have anymore European comps than before, they have just rebadged them.  If winning a European trophy is not deemed notable then what is?  As per my other post I assume you don't recognise any form of achievement lower down the leagues as worthy of note?  Our double year, so what, it's not winning the Prem is it 

No I genuinely don't think a team in 7th should get into a European competition.

Let's not forget that the only reason this Conference thing was introduced is commercial reasons. 

[glynriley]

Biff and Moysie winning a trophy, it’s like 1986 again…

[glynriley]

4 hours ago, mozo said:

When we won the Football League Trophy in 2015, did it feel like an FA Cup win? Or a League Cup win? No, the value was much lower. And the value of this thing West Ham won is pretty low in the scheme of things. Lower than the League Cup, I'd say.

When we won it in 1986, it felt like the biggest trophy in world football after what we;d been through.

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

I agree with you, it's fun for the fans, but I'm just saying there's limited prestige and I'm surprised people would rate it as a notable achievement.

I also think that if you have too many European competitions it cheapen the kudos of getting into Europe. 

Presumably anyone that ranks this as a legitimate European conquest would also feel the same if a new cup competition was introduced for all the teams 8-10th in the Prem (versus European equivalents). Why not?

It’s legitimate in that West Ham finished high enough in their league to qualify and beat all the other teams they faced, who also finished high enough in their league to enter it.

If there was another competition again for those even further down their leagues, it would be legitimate within the same bounds. But I think people consider three competitions to be about right as a reasonable limit, not least because of the history of having had three European competitions in the past.

It really isn’t any deeper than that. No one is claiming they’re Champions of the Europe (aside from some tongue in cheek chants from West Ham fans themselves) and it doesn’t in any way lessen the clearly more prestigious and harder achievement of qualifying for the Champions League, or indeed the Europa. In fact the prize of a place in the Europa gives the achievement a suitable context.

[ChippenhamRed]

54 minutes ago, mozo said:

No I genuinely don't think a team in 7th should get into a European competition.

Let's not forget that the only reason this Conference thing was introduced is commercial reasons. 

Finishing 7th actually means you’ve finished 7th out of 92 professional teams. And 7th out of many hundreds of teams if you include non-league teams below that.

When you look at it like that, I’d say a chance to compete against European teams at a similar level is an entirely reasonable prize.

[Bristol Oil Services]

What about an Anglo-European Cup competition for second tier sides around the continent not in the happy position of receiving Parachute Payments and probably not going to make the play-offs? Once upon a time, Bristol City was run by the sort of visionary, outward-looking, Euro-scentric people sadly lacking by today's tax-dodging little Ingerlunder football administrators .....

[mozo]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

It’s legitimate in that West Ham finished high enough in their league to qualify and beat all the other teams they faced, who also finished high enough in their league to enter it.

If there was another competition again for those even further down their leagues, it would be legitimate within the same bounds. But I think people consider three competitions to be about right as a reasonable limit, not least because of the history of having had three European competitions in the past.

It really isn’t any deeper than that. No one is claiming they’re Champions of the Europe (aside from some tongue in cheek chants from West Ham fans themselves) and it doesn’t in any way lessen the clearly more prestigious and harder achievement of qualifying for the Champions League, or indeed the Europa. In fact the prize of a place in the Europa gives the achievement a suitable context.

I agree with your first two paras, but I'm saying that in my opinion the bounds, which have been widened, are wrong. 

Re your last para, there has been tons of hyperbole out there, such as Rice emulating Bobby Moore, which I think is overstated.

58 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Finishing 7th actually means you’ve finished 7th out of 92 professional teams. And 7th out of many hundreds of teams if you include non-league teams below that.

When you look at it like that, I’d say a chance to compete against European teams at a similar level is an entirely reasonable prize.

Would you roll out more European competitions then so more clubs get the experience or is 7th the sweet spot?

[mozo]

1 hour ago, glynriley said:

When we won it in 1986, it felt like the biggest trophy in world football after what we;d been through.

Yeah subjectively you can say that, but objectively that trophy is a bit of fun but not very important. Many teams will rotate the squads to rest key players. The payday of the final is good for two clubs but otherwise it can be a fixture nuisance.

31 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

What about an Anglo-European Cup competition for second tier sides around the continent not in the happy position of receiving Parachute Payments and probably not going to make the play-offs? Once upon a time, Bristol City was run by the sort of visionary, outward-looking, Euro-scentric people sadly lacking by today's tax-dodging little Ingerlunder football administrators .....

We can bring back the Anglo-Italian. I mean, I'd like an excuse for a trip to Italy. 

[Major Isewater]

14 minutes ago, mozo said:

We can bring back the Anglo-Italian. I mean, I'd like an excuse for a trip to Italy. 

Or the Anglo/Scottish Cup for a trip to Jockland.

 

[mozo]

12 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Or the Anglo/Scottish Cup for a trip to Jockland.

 

Exotic! 

[maxjak]

Well there's a surprise.........The Fiorentina President accusing West Ham of being "Animals" who were so  aggressive that Fiorentina players could not concentrate on football because of threats to their safety?  Apparently Fiorentina deserved to win 3-0 ?   It is so sad when the   losers regress into blaming everyone but themselves, I seem to remember a few Italian players reacting as if they had been shot by a sniper when they had been brushed by an opponents hand or a West Ham player breathed near them?   Ha!     

[The Journalist]

7 hours ago, mozo said:

I do respectfully, strongly disagree.

It's also difficult to finish 8th in the Prem. Maybe we should create a European cup competition for all the 8th placed teams too?

It devalues European competitions. They're not special. They're for average teams.

I think whether the Conference League should exist or not is a different matter. I don't really disagree with what you've said - I think you're arguing a different point.

To finish in the top seven two seasons running, to get to the semi-finals of the Europa League against some very good teams and then win the Conference League against some average teams, but some decent ones too, is a really good achievement over a sustained period of three seasons.

Outside of the elite clubs, I think any set of fans in England would take the adventure they've been on during that period. I firmly stand by that comment.

[mozo]

27 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

I think whether the Conference League should exist or not is a different matter. I don't really disagree with what you've said - I think you're arguing a different point.

To finish in the top seven two seasons running, to get to the semi-finals of the Europa League against some very good teams and then win the Conference League against some average teams, but some decent ones too, is a really good achievement over a sustained period of three seasons.

Outside of the elite clubs, I think any set of fans in England would take the adventure they've been on during that period. I firmly stand by that comment.

Yeah we might be discussing different points. As I said, I'm sure it's a very enjoyable experience for West Ham fans. I just don't think that West Ham having a jolly good time validates a need for a Conference League tournament.

My view is that the Europa League is already cynically too easy to qualify for.

The world club cup is a money-making nonsense. 

And this debate will be moot in a few years when the European Super League finally takes off and suddenly West Ham can not only claim to have won a European trophy (my arse), but also be one of the big 5 of the Premier League, when the teams above them have buggered off. 

Meh. 

[bcfcredandwhite]

My youngest daughters boyfriend is a Hammers fan (He’s not a plastic - he comes from East London). We’re on holiday in Weymouth this week and watched the game in the Gloucester pub. 
There were a few West Ham fans in there but the pub was far from being packed. 
I really enjoyed the game - it’s so much more relaxing watching as a neutral supporter. 
When Bristol City is on TV I’m stressed to pieces!!!!!!

The daughters boyfriend is a happy bunny today!

Edited June 8, 2023 by bcfcredandwhite
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[ChippenhamRed]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

I agree with your first two paras, but I'm saying that in my opinion the bounds, which have been widened, are wrong. 

Re your last para, there has been tons of hyperbole out there, such as Rice emulating Bobby Moore, which I think is overstated.

Would you roll out more European competitions then so more clubs get the experience or is 7th the sweet spot?

I literally said three competitions was about right as a reasonable limit.