Wage budget

[ExiledAjax]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW at our current wage levels and amortisation costs I no longer think £20m losses will be the norm.

Plus, at £20m, there are ffp allowances - Womens, Depreciation, Academy etc, that brings you into line.

I’m actually all for sustainability, whether that be Mozo’s Breakeven Steven, or somewhere in the £13m loss region.  But you can’t do that overnight.  Well in fact you can, but you ought to communicate the change.  At least to your manager

Agreed.

And hence, in a world with no communication or explanation, we land back at these slightly darker theories such as SL planning for a new manager, or preserving the profit to please new investors/owners.

 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Let’s just say he’s on £18k p.w (signed in boom time).

Who is gonna buy him?

What transfer fee are they gonna pay?

How much of his wages might we need to contribute for the remaining term if his contract for him to sign elsewhere?

…and haven’t we left it too late, in reality?

Would still be very surprised if he was on that much. If he is then no way he gets that in his next contract.

We signed him from relegated Wigan who can’t have been high payers, from memory the other side in for him was Preston, so same thing applies.

I can’t see him being on more than £15k absolute tops, he’s not a Wells or a Weimann in terms of stature in the division.

Said it already but even if we did move him on we’re simply tinkering at the edges, he’s featured in every single game so far.

I’d rather we kept him, I thought he was our best player v Norwich, did well at Hull & I don’t think our season will stand or fall on moving him on & then bringing one other player in.

[Mr Popodopolous]

51 minutes ago, frenchred said:

He hadn't had value for money but the main reason for this is his piss poor football knowledge and who to appoint in critical positions.

The debt we carry is down to him!

It's his club remember (he told us this when he used to speak to us) so he should go on paying for it

In part although it's also in part a cost of doing business as a regular Championship club these days IMO.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Shauntaylor85]

8 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Would still be very surprised if he was on that much. If he is then no way he gets that in his next contract.

We signed him from relegated Wigan who can’t have been high payers, from memory the other side in for him was Preston, so same thing applies.

I can’t see him being on more than £15k absolute tops, he’s not a Wells or a Weimann in terms of stature in the division.

Said it already but even if we did move him on we’re simply tinkering at the edges, he’s featured in every single game so far.

I’d rather we kept him, I thought he was our best player v Norwich, did well at Hull & I don’t think our season will stand or fall on moving him on & then bringing one other player in.

Interesting as I just don’t see it with Williams. I think he’s been a massive disappointment and one I would be keen to move on. His passing is array, injury prone and offers no goal threat. I thought we had signed a prime Ben Pearson type but how wrong we were albeit the injury he had probably curtailed this. He seems a great guy and clearly passionate, but if there was a chance to upgrade or trade he for me is the obvious one. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Shauntaylor85

[mozo]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW at our current wage levels and amortisation costs I no longer think £20m losses will be the norm.

Plus, at £20m, there are ffp allowances - Womens, Depreciation, Academy etc, that brings you into line.

I’m actually all for sustainability, whether that be Mozo’s Breakeven Steven, or somewhere in the £13m loss region.  But you can’t do that overnight.  Well in fact you can, but you ought to communicate the change.  At least to your manager

If Nige didn't know about Scott being sold for the money just to be tucked under the Lansdown mattress, then he did a great job of just looking a bit miffed in that post-match interview and not livid! Scandalous.

Ps I like that Breakeven Stephen can be initialised as BS...

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Would still be very surprised if he was on that much. If he is then no way he gets that in his next contract.

We signed him from relegated Wigan who can’t have been high payers, from memory the other side in for him was Preston, so same thing applies.

I can’t see him being on more than £15k absolute tops, he’s not a Wells or a Weimann in terms of stature in the division.

Said it already but even if we did move him on we’re simply tinkering at the edges, he’s featured in every single game so far.

I’d rather we kept him, I thought he was our best player v Norwich, did well at Hull & I don’t think our season will stand or fall on moving him on & then bringing one other player in.

Williams and his wage an interesting one they were overreaching and seemed to be accelerating costs in 2019-20, based on some 6 month accounts for their parent company in Hong Kong. (No proper accounts for 2019-20 ever saw the light of day here).

Otoh in administration offloading is a key priority so perhaps this would have made him more affordable than he might otherwise have been.

[Mr Popodopolous]

£15-20m probably in respect of annual losses pre the Scott sale would be my best guess. That's for BCFC Holdings sure.

Yes the two don't neatly fit, or the Club and Holdings via AGL. Some of thst will be rugby related probably but surely not enough to explain it in dull.

Worth pointing out too that Bristol City FC has a lower depreciation than Bristol City Holdings...using the most recent accounts we still benefit a bit using Bristol City Holdings probably but not wildly so. It's marginal.

In FFP terms you probably subtract £7m from the headline loss.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Little more specific to the thread.

What should our top earner/earners be on weekly If we have this wage structure?

Either top earner or category of..£15k, £20k? While we are at Championship level of course.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

41 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Interesting as I just don’t see it with Williams. I think he’s been a massive disappointment and one I would be keen to move on. His passing is array, injury prone and offers no goal threat. I thought we had signed a prime Ben Pearson type but how wrong we were albeit the injury he had probably curtailed this. He seems a great guy and clearly passionate, but if there was a chance to upgrade or trade he for me is the obvious one. 

I don’t think you’re alone…although I do think his first two years of quad then hamstring issues have built in some bias.

His passing is array (awry) - he is a mixed bag, granted, but he is often the one trying to drive us on, create the tempo for us, so his passing has inherent risk in it, unlike someone like James who is pretty safe in his passing.

Injury prone - yes, he’s had his probs, but last season he was injured once…and his season-ender was rehabbed quicker than expected and he came back ahead of time.  His availability over the past year and a bit has been good.  He’s probably being managed a tad too.

Ben Pearson type - he was never that.  He was a box-to-box, energetic midfielder.  Pearson is a base of the midfield disruptor.  Injury has taken some of his “skillset” away, granted.

As for this season, he’s been pretty good, fwiw I thought he was our best player on Tuesday, the one breaking up play, forcing the press, feeding Sykes, getting around the pitch etc.  I think like James, people don’t see what players like Joe do on the pitch.

I’m not saying don’t move him on…but he has a full role to play this season as part of the midfield “group”.

I just don’t think there is a “trade option” out there I’m afraid.  

11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Little more specific to the thread.

What should our top earner/earners be on weekly If we have this wahe structure?

Either top earner or category of..£15k, £20k? While we are at Championship level of course.

£15k seems to be the figure mooted by Gould.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

£15k seems to be the figure mooted by Gould.

Thanks. That's fine on one level but as we both know and most reading probably trade off is that it limits somewhat the pool of players that we can realistically target.

A wider issue is that most Championship clubs require regular ash injections simply to function to remain solvent but who knows when that will change.

[marcofisher]

Williams for some reason reminds me of Liam Kelly, might take a fair few years to get form back again.

[Davefevs]

48 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's fine on one level but as we both know and most reading probably trade off is that it limits somewhat the pool of players that we can realistically target.

It does, but then that should be no surprise based on Tins brief, nor based on who we’ve signed so far.

[Shauntaylor85]

55 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think you’re alone…although I do think his first two years of quad then hamstring issues have built in some bias.

His passing is array (awry) - he is a mixed bag, granted, but he is often the one trying to drive us on, create the tempo for us, so his passing has inherent risk in it, unlike someone like James who is pretty safe in his passing.

Injury prone - yes, he’s had his probs, but last season he was injured once…and his season-ender was rehabbed quicker than expected and he came back ahead of time.  His availability over the past year and a bit has been good.  He’s probably being managed a tad too.

Ben Pearson type - he was never that.  He was a box-to-box, energetic midfielder.  Pearson is a base of the midfield disruptor.  Injury has taken some of his “skillset” away, granted.

As for this season, he’s been pretty good, fwiw I thought he was our best player on Tuesday, the one breaking up play, forcing the press, feeding Sykes, getting around the pitch etc.  I think like James, people don’t see what players like Joe do on the pitch.

I’m not saying don’t move him on…but he has a full role to play this season as part of the midfield “group”.

I just don’t think there is a “trade option” out there I’m afraid.  

£15k seems to be the figure mooted by Gould.

Fair enough but not sure I agree with all your comments above (that’s the joy of football). I am OK keeping him as a squad player but feel we need better in the midfield and if the only way is to be trading players then so be it. Aside from him and it Wells/Cornick, I can’t think of many who we can realistically move on to upgrade. But as we’ve said many times, this shouldn’t even be an issue, it’s down to SL. 

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Fair enough but not sure I agree with all your comments above (that’s the joy of football). I am OK keeping him as a squad player but feel we need better in the midfield and if the only way is to be trading players then so be it. Aside from him and it Wells/Cornick, I can’t think of many who we can realistically move on to upgrade. But as we’ve said many times, this shouldn’t even be an issue, it’s down to SL. 

We are probably saying fairly similar things.  As you’ll know I don’t do best elevens, so I see him as an important member of the squad.  There are potentially better individuals than him, but our strength comes from players pushing others, and I think Joe is one that if he’s in the squad, whether starting or sub, then we will be competitive.

I don’t think he’ll be here next season unless it’s on a very “sensible” wage.  But I don’t think he’d generate enough from trading him to improve us either.  So I stick to the summer.

It is the joy of football.