Different manager thread

[Tinmans Love Child]

9 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

 

Below is the list of managers that have been in charge since I started watching City in 1970.
The list doesn't look complete, but near enough. Of the 20 something men that have been in charge only once have I felt as down as I do now. Terry Cooper was different, so I don't count that one, he had lined Joe Jordan up to take over so it was expected. The only other time was when Jordan left for Hearts when we had a chance of going straight up  Usually, when a manager leaves , you are shite , that's the thing you dump your Manager when he's  crap. Nige had been doing ok with loads of injuries and keeping to an ever shrinking budget. Joe had been promised riches, well a chance of being Scotland Manager, so he dumped us. 
So this feeling is rare. Anyone been sad/disappointed about losing a Manager before ?

Manager history, 

	FROM	TO
Nigel Pearson	24 Feb, 2021	Present
Dean Holden	05 Jul, 2020	24 Feb, 2021
Lee Johnson	07 Feb, 2016	05 Jul, 2020
John Pemberton	14 Jan, 2015	07 Feb, 2016
Steve Cotterill	03 Dec, 2013	14 Jan, 2015
Sean O'Driscoll	14 Jan, 2013	28 Nov, 2013
Derek McInnes	19 Oct, 2011	13 Jan, 2013
Keith Millen	12 Aug, 2010	03 Oct, 2011
Steve Coppell	11 May, 2010	12 Aug, 2010
Keith Millen	18 Mar, 2010	11 May, 2010
Gary Johnson	26 Sep, 2005	18 Mar, 2010
Keith Millen	11 Sep, 2005	26 Sep, 2005
Brian Tinnion	05 Jun, 2004	11 Sep, 2005
Danny Wilson	27 Jun, 2000	05 Jun, 2004
Leroy Rosenior	14 Jan, 2000	27 Jun, 2000
Tony Fawthrop	14 Jan, 2000	27 Jun, 2000
David Burnside	14 Jan, 2000	27 Jun, 2000
Tony Pulis	05 Jul, 1999	14 Jan, 2000
Benny Lennartsson	28 Oct, 1998	05 Jul, 1999
John Ward	27 Mar, 1997	28 Oct, 1998
Gerry Sweeney	25 Mar, 1997	27 Mar, 1997
Joe Jordan	15 Nov, 1994	24 Mar, 1997
Russell Osman	21 Jan, 1993	14 Nov, 1994
Denis Smith	09 Mar, 1992	21 Feb, 1993
Jimmy Lumsden	08 Oct, 1990	24 Feb, 1992
Joe Jordan	16 Mar, 1988	01 Sep, 1990
Terry Cooper	20 May, 1982	16 Mar, 1988
Roy Hodgson	03 Jan, 1982	30 Apr, 1982
Bobby Houghton	01 Oct, 1980	03 Jan, 1982
Alan Dicks	01 Oct, 1967	30 Sep, 1980

Probs not been this dissapointed since Joe Jordan left the first time as we were doing well when he left.  Bit different with Cotts as we were struggling so could at least appreciate the decision (I appreciate the lack of investment he had), but apart from that, in my 30 odd years of support I can't remember the fans being this gutted by a manager departure

[pongo88]

8 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Ward left IIRC because he wanted help and his choice was Ray Harford but the board brought Benny in. I didn’t hold a great torch for Ward - nothing to do with ex Rovers but more that I thought he took Joes team up. It’s fair to say that if Shaun Taylor wasn’t injured it may have ended differently.

There were only a couple I was truly gutted by - Joe obviously but surprisingly for some, Benny. I could see what he was doing; bringing youth through and wanting to play good football. I could see a plan, I could see shoots. I hated Pulis coming in because I knew what anti football he played but also because I knew it was a complete 180 and it would screw up what Benny was working towards. It’s no shock that in the first post Pulis game at Bournemouth several younger players came back in - Benny started the Hill, Brown, Burnell generation and it’s a shame he didn’t get a chance to finish.

With Benny you say “I could see a plan”. That sums up a lot of situations with City’s managers. There is a plan, but the board gives the manager the sack before it’s fully implemented and starts again on some completely different plan. 

[Floatn Over]

I go back a whisker further, to Fred Ford.

AD because he got us to Division 1.

Joe but it was his career move.

Otherwise “no”

[Tinmans Love Child]

All the positive talk about Benny makes me think that I'd love us to go rogue and get an unknown foreign coach in, if only for the change!

[frenchred]

1 minute ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

All the positive talk about Benny makes me think that I'd love us to go rogue and get an unknown foreign coach in, if only for the change!

I think history (and probably alcohol) have clouded people's memories

He was diabolically crap!

[Oh Louie louie]

Christoph daum, claimed jl was intrested in talking to him before Holden, that would have been a interesting choice 

[Barrs Court Red]

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

I think history (and probably alcohol) have clouded people's memories

He was diabolically crap!

I disagree.  I think he was incredibly unlucky with injuries. When it looked like we were making progress, Testimutanu? got a horrible injury, as did Bell? 
 

The torrid spell when he first joined us is what people generally remember, but City finished 5 points off safety with an extremely unbalanced squad. 
 

It would have been interesting to see how he’d done with a 2nd season, however the board thought otherwise and probably made an even bigger mistake. 

[Oh Louie louie]

That six pointer under Benny against Birmingham, still have nightmares about that game, 

[RUSSEL85]

1 minute ago, Oh Louie louie said:

That six pointer under Benny against Birmingham, still have nightmares about that game, 

Didn’t he thrown his cap to the floor in comedic style? I seem to remember that.

[Isawjonshaw]

10 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

 

Below is the list of managers that have been in charge since I started watching City in 1970.
The list doesn't look complete, but near enough. Of the 20 something men that have been in charge only once have I felt as down as I do now. Terry Cooper was different, so I don't count that one, he had lined Joe Jordan up to take over so it was expected. The only other time was when Jordan left for Hearts when we had a chance of going straight up  Usually, when a manager leaves , you are shite , that's the thing you dump your Manager when he's  crap. Nige had been doing ok with loads of injuries and keeping to an ever shrinking budget. Joe had been promised riches, well a chance of being Scotland Manager, so he dumped us. 
So this feeling is rare. Anyone been sad/disappointed about losing a Manager before ?

Manager history, 

	FROM	TO
Nigel Pearson	24 Feb, 2021	Present
Dean Holden	05 Jul, 2020	24 Feb, 2021
Lee Johnson	07 Feb, 2016	05 Jul, 2020
John Pemberton	14 Jan, 2015	07 Feb, 2016
Steve Cotterill	03 Dec, 2013	14 Jan, 2015
Sean O'Driscoll	14 Jan, 2013	28 Nov, 2013
Derek McInnes	19 Oct, 2011	13 Jan, 2013
Keith Millen	12 Aug, 2010	03 Oct, 2011
Steve Coppell	11 May, 2010	12 Aug, 2010
Keith Millen	18 Mar, 2010	11 May, 2010
Gary Johnson	26 Sep, 2005	18 Mar, 2010
Keith Millen	11 Sep, 2005	26 Sep, 2005
Brian Tinnion	05 Jun, 2004	11 Sep, 2005
Danny Wilson	27 Jun, 2000	05 Jun, 2004
Leroy Rosenior	14 Jan, 2000	27 Jun, 2000
Tony Fawthrop	14 Jan, 2000	27 Jun, 2000
David Burnside	14 Jan, 2000	27 Jun, 2000
Tony Pulis	05 Jul, 1999	14 Jan, 2000
Benny Lennartsson	28 Oct, 1998	05 Jul, 1999
John Ward	27 Mar, 1997	28 Oct, 1998
Gerry Sweeney	25 Mar, 1997	27 Mar, 1997
Joe Jordan	15 Nov, 1994	24 Mar, 1997
Russell Osman	21 Jan, 1993	14 Nov, 1994
Denis Smith	09 Mar, 1992	21 Feb, 1993
Jimmy Lumsden	08 Oct, 1990	24 Feb, 1992
Joe Jordan	16 Mar, 1988	01 Sep, 1990
Terry Cooper	20 May, 1982	16 Mar, 1988
Roy Hodgson	03 Jan, 1982	30 Apr, 1982
Bobby Houghton	01 Oct, 1980	03 Jan, 1982
Alan Dicks	01 Oct, 1967	30 Sep, 1980

I was mortified when Joe went to Hearts.  

[1960maaan]

18 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

I disagree.  I think he was incredibly unlucky with injuries. When it looked like we were making progress, Testimutanu? got a horrible injury, as did Bell? 
 

The torrid spell when he first joined us is what people generally remember, but City finished 5 points off safety with an extremely unbalanced squad. 
 

It would have been interesting to see how he’d done with a 2nd season, however the board thought otherwise and probably made an even bigger mistake. 

I don't remember that time too fondly.
Benny brought in to assist Ward but Ward didn't fancy it and did one. 
I was at Bradford for his first game, the home to Wolves next.

Scored 1 Conceded 11
14 points from his first 21 games and ended the season with one win and one draw from six games. 

I think a new man was right, but good God what the **** were they thinking ???

Tony ******* Pulis ? 

7 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

That six pointer under Benny against Birmingham, still have nightmares about that game, 

Thanks, I'd forgotten I was at that one.

[Oh Louie louie]

He chucked his hat in the crowd when we won, I think? Have a vauge memory of that? One things for sure, didn't cost him many hats

[Son of Fred]

7 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

Didn’t he thrown his cap to the floor in comedic style? I seem to remember that.

Was certainly there that day-

My creaking memory says he threw it into the crowd??

Could be wrong mind!

[RUSSEL85]

2 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Was certainly there that day-

My creaking memory says he threw it into the crowd??

Could be wrong mind!

Ah that sounds right, he was a character.

[Oh Louie louie]

Joe Jordan had tears in his eyes, on the htv west interview upon joining hearts, didn't we all

[sunningdalered]

28 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

That six pointer under Benny against Birmingham, still have nightmares about that game, 

For me, it was away at Wolves. Pitch like a sandpit, John Ward getting the full love-in from the city fans (couldn't understand why - he had openly admitted that he didn't know what to do next to fix city's problems at the time), our centre-half, Sebok, cantering up the left wing, Flapper let one roll in under his boot, think we were 3 down and the Wolves fans moaning that it wasn't more!

[tin]

31 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

That six pointer under Benny against Birmingham, still have nightmares about that game, 

I remember Mike Dean reffed that game and was so bad I wrote to the FA to complain! Think they won it with a Martin Grainger penalty. 

I’m with others on Benny. He was dropped in at the deep end and out of his depth initially, but I could see he’d turned a corner. The win down at Pompey (Adam Locke scored) was another big win at that time. 

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Probs not been this dissapointed since Joe Jordan left the first time as we were doing well when he left.  Bit different with Cotts as we were struggling so could at least appreciate the decision (I appreciate the lack of investment he had), but apart from that, in my 30 odd years of support I can't remember the fans being this gutted by a manager departure

See, I always struggle with the narrative that Cotts had a lack of investment - he didn’t. We had a title winning squad that needed a couple of additions - people point to Andre Gray but we got Kodjia as an alternative so that’s moot. The other one that’s pointed to Maguire - we got Nathan Baker and I think Liam Moore in. We also added Callum Robinson and Ryan Fredericks, notwithstanding that the latter didn’t last long after Little lamped him.

Cotts was backed in assembling the title winning squad and if you look at who came in (acknowledging some were loans) and their quality proven since it’s hard to argue he wasn’t backed in the championship - harsh truth is he probably had reached his limits with us and couldn’t kick on.

This is one of the things that makes the Nige situation so infuriating- he is singularly the only manager who hasn’t been backed by Lansdown and has delivered the veritable silk purse from a sows ear but still gets the push.

[Tinmans Love Child]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

I think history (and probably alcohol) have clouded people's memories

He was diabolically crap!

To be clear I don't want him back! But I would be interested in an up and coming foreign coach coming in rather than the rinse and repeat of English coaches

[Oh Louie louie]

That team was terrible, I dunno how we were still in with a chance of staying up by the brum game

[Denbury Red]

Talking of Sliding Doors moments - the one no one has mentioned was at Wembley in 2008 in the Play Off final.

I have been there all through the managers since Alan Dicks - but the chances we had to win that game (always falling to the right foot of a very left footed players) are too numerous to mention - we should have won that game by two or three clear goals, and no one would have said we didn't deserve it!

I've never felt so gutted as on that fateful day!!

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, Countryfile said:

Quite remarkable that NP appears to be the only manager the club has sacked over all those years that doesn’t seem to have been given anywhere near the leeway the others were.

Different owners/Chairman, same scenario, give the guy some time to improve before wielding the axe.

NP must have truly wound SL up to act as he has…..if only walls could talk.

He was the second longest serving manager in the Championship. 

You can debate whether he should have been given longer to finish what he started (and as your final paragraph suggests, I suspect there was more to it than just what was happening on the pitch).

But I don’t think the proposition that he’d have been given longer annywhere else stacks up at all. At most other clubs he’d have been gone a year ago. NP himself acknowledged that managers get given time at City. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

He was the second longest serving manager in the Championship. 

You can debate whether he should have been given longer to finish what he started (and as your final paragraph suggests, I suspect there was more to it than just what was happening on the pitch).

But I don’t think the proposition that he’d have been given longer annywhere else stacks up at all. At most other clubs he’d have been gone a year ago. NP himself acknowledged that managers get given time at City. 

I was writing specifically about our club and it’s owners and managers, I don’t know the exact numbers but would be surprised if any other of our managers were sacked with a better recent record in terms of league position and points gained this season.

What other clubs did or do doesn’t have a bearing on NPs dismissal, it was very harsh compared to other managers who City have dismissed.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

I think history (and probably alcohol) have clouded people's memories

He was diabolically crap!

He really wasn’t. The circumstances surrounding his arrival, and the way the club managed that, was. And the club then compounded that by giving him absolutely no support in the impossible position he’d been put in.

But many of the ideas and the skills that he came with were just what the club needed. As I said earlier, he was way ahead of his time in terms of things like diet, he identified the need for significant changes to training methods and to the culture at the club, he was a real supporter of the club’s academy at a time when it was in its early days. He once said something about a belief that coaching existing players to be better was at least as important as going out and buying players that’s always stuck with me (it was a long time ago - you’re right!).

Arguably he was too far ahead of English football generally at that time, but certainly at City he was given no chance to overcome that. 

[italian dave]

19 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

I was writing specifically about our club and it’s owners and managers, I don’t know the exact numbers but would be surprised if any other of our managers were sacked with a better recent record in terms of league position and points gained this season.

What other clubs did or do doesn’t have a bearing on NPs dismissal, it was very harsh compared to other managers who City have dismissed.

OK, but when you talked about “different owners/chairmen” I assumed you were talking about others at other clubs.

It’s hard to compare with just City owners because we’ve had relatively few. The likes of AD were certainly given longer, but that was a different era, and that wasn’t uncommon then.

But if you look at that list you won’t find any post TC and pre Lansdown that were given longer.

And if you’re looking purely at league positions and points then you don’t have to go back any further than a certain Lee Johnson. When he was sacked we were 12th (14th now) and had 1.38 points per game (1.28 now).

Don’t  me wrong, I’m not trying to argue that it was right to sack NP, but I just think there’s a whole load more context to it (evidently so when you’re comparing LJ and NP) and a whole load of that context is stuff we know little or nothing about. And all that makes every case individual.

And I don’t think you can dispute the proposition that, in general, Lansdown gives managers longer than most other owners - city or otherwise.