Swansea sack Duff

[And Its Smith]

Tony Mowbray sacked so maybe they get him 

[Chivs]

48 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

At least their ownership is prepared to admit their mistakes and take decisive action. 

"I understand how important it is to reconnect the leadership of Bristol City Football Club with its supporters.  That is one of the primary reasons why I moved to Guernsey with my family.  Being present matters, but so does taking responsibility, which is why I appointed Jon. He's not responsible but he is my responsibility.  My appreciation for how critical the Bristol (sic) identity is to this club has grown since I sacked what's his face, and it will be high in my mind as I make the decision to hire that nice young chap from Oxford."

[W-S-M Seagull]

22 minutes ago, italian dave said:

First sentence: that’s an interesting thought. Could be.

Last sentence: I do wish you’d stop lumping all City fans into a single entity with a single view. Thats far from the case. And I for one certainly don’t feel about Manning the way Swansea fans are said to feel about Duff (although I suspect there are diverse views there too). I have a feeling you probably do….but your view isn’t necessarily the view of every City fan. 

I did say "kinda" 

[GrahamC]

10 minutes ago, italian dave said:

 

Has there ever been a “manager swap” before??!

Pretty sure Brighton & Charlton did so in the very early 80s, Mike Bailey & Alan Mullery.

[Lrrr]

53 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

It wouldn’t happen, but hypothetically if you were Manning knowing what you know now (which arguably he should have known before) about the shape of the squad vs your style and the boards expectations vs the actuality of the scenario, and Swansea did come in for you, what would you do? A set of players better set up to how you want to operate and lower expectations from the fanbase because of the scenario.

“The city job wasn’t what I was sold and I want a club aligned with my philosophy”

Its a pretty easy argument for him to make.

For me we’re still a better pick than Swansea, their owners love to save money at every turn, they sold a few players and got big money in return and still had to go cheap. 5 loans will mean investment needed to replace them as well. 
 

Do people really believe Manning and those who came with him didn’t do their own evaluation of each of our players before they came in? Add the obvious fact they played us so would have done opposition analysis on us. They will have known exactly what squad they were getting when they came in and it’s in a better position then Swansea’s will be (if they are as of now barring huge changes in January). 

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, Lrrr said:

For me we’re still a better pick than Swansea, their owners love to save money at every turn, they sold a few players and got big money in return and still had to go cheap. 5 loans will mean investment needed to replace them as well. 
 

Do people really believe Manning and those who came with him didn’t do their own evaluation of each of our players before they came in? Add the obvious fact they played us so would have done opposition analysis on us. They will have known exactly what squad they were getting when they came in and it’s in a better position then Swansea’s will be (if they are as of now barring huge changes in January). 

Tbf I’m playing devils advocate - I made the exact point on the “interview” thread that I had little sympathy with Manning for the exact reasons on your second paragraph. But it’s currently easy for him to spin a narrative if he wants, and that interview yesterday was definitely a man feeling more heat than he expected.

[One Team]

Weird isn’t it? Whilst many of us didn’t want Nige sacked I think we would’ve preferred Duff or Mowbray. A month is a long time in football!

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, One Team said:

Weird isn’t it? Whilst many of us didn’t want Nige sacked I think we would’ve preferred Duff or Mowbray. A month is a long time in football!

I really rate Mowbray, but I don’t see any way he follows Nige here.

I was a bit gutted Duff jumped from Barnsley to Swansea in the summer as I wanted to see whether next summer he would be the successor to Nige.

Funny how things / timings work out (or not).

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I wanted Duff here.

We went too early.  Think he’d have been a natural successor to Nige.

Not good enough for Swansea but good enough for us !!!!!! 

[alexukhc]

Oh god, I’m going to bed

[Lrrr]

30 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Tbf I’m playing devils advocate - I made the exact point on the “interview” thread that I had little sympathy with Manning for the exact reasons on your second paragraph. But it’s currently easy for him to spin a narrative if he wants, and that interview yesterday was definitely a man feeling more heat than he expected.

Thing is there can't be an expectation for this squad to play the way he wants from week one, heck even week 4 or 5, it'll take months and the higher ups at the club know it as well so I can't see there being a genuine expectation to have hit the ground running. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Not good enough for Swansea but good enough for us !!!!!! 

Or…

a bad fit for Swansea a good fit for us in many respects.

[TV Tom]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I really rate Mowbray, but I don’t see any way he follows Nige here.

I was a bit gutted Duff jumped from Barnsley to Swansea in the summer as I wanted to see whether next summer he would be the successor to Nige.

Funny how things / timings work out (or not).

Would love Mowbray here despite his age, played decent entertaining football at Blackburn and Sunderland despite the shit-show that LJ left him

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Thing is there can't be an expectation for this squad to play the way he wants from week one, heck even week 4 or 5, it'll take months and the higher ups at the club know it as well so I can't see there being a genuine expectation to have hit the ground running. 

In which case it is possible that he was a bad fit.

It's not really fair on Manning but I really don't see the fans being especially patient due to the context.

The booing on Sunday so soon into his reign is a bellwether. Time will tell but..

The only way or the best way in which he can buy time to gradually change the style is wins. He needs to win games and accumulate points at least at a reasonable rate. If not..

1.4 PPG.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Dr Balls]

Just now, Lrrr said:

Thing is there can't be an expectation for this squad to play the way he wants from week one, heck even week 4 or 5, it'll take months and the higher ups at the club know it as well so I can't see there being a genuine expectation to have hit the ground running. 

Agree. We would have to go on a worse run than we ever did under LJ for the owners to give Manning the push. They have dug themselves a mighty big hole, and only if we were looking at relegation would they even consider making a move. By then  it would be too late anyway.

[TV Tom]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Or…

a bad fit for Swansea a good fit for us in many respects.

Fair enough, it did seem an odd fit him going to Swansea, his comments before the Cardiff game would have gone down like a lead balloon

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Thing is there can't be an expectation for this squad to play the way he wants from week one, heck even week 4 or 5, it'll take months and the higher ups at the club know it as well so I can't see there being a genuine expectation to have hit the ground running. 

Playing a bit of Devil’s advocate…why change straightaway?  Why not show your adaptable coaching skillset, spot some quick wins, and not disrupt too much.

[Dr Balls]

1 minute ago, TV Tom said:

Would love Mowbray here despite his age, played decent entertaining football at Blackburn and Sunderland despite the shit-show that LJ left him

Mowbray took over from Alex Neil, who was the manager who actually achieved promotion before jumping ship to Stoke.

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

Thing is there can't be an expectation for this squad to play the way he wants from week one, heck even week 4 or 5, it'll take months and the higher ups at the club know it as well so I can't see there being a genuine expectation to have hit the ground running. 

Point more so there though is even if he knows that (and I have no reason to suspect he doesn’t - or even if he thinks the players can play that way) he would have seen the statements made by the board and the expectation that gave. Again - it’s the boards shitshow but Liam took the job, took the money and is smart enough to know that in view of the statements a slow start would put him under immediate pressure. That he’s then started questioning the culture and his comments as detailed in the interview thread shows he’s not appearing to be coping with what was expected.
 

 

[TV Tom]

Just now, Dr Balls said:

Mowbray took over from Alex Neil, who was the manager who actually achieved promotion before jumping ship to Stoke.

So he did, my mistake, couldn't understand Neil doing that, he must be skating on this ice at Stoke

[Dr Balls]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Playing a bit of Devil’s advocate…why change straightaway?  Why not show your adaptable coaching skillset, spot some quick wins, and not disrupt too much.

Well Manning hasn’t changed the formation, despite the emphasis changing from a counter-attacking team to a possession-based team. Not that I am sure it’s working!

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Playing a bit of Devil’s advocate…why change straightaway?  Why not show your adaptable coaching skillset, spot some quick wins, and not disrupt too much.

As I think I’ve said several times, likely because I’m not sure that’s a skill set he actually has - or has proven - to date

[Davefevs]

Just now, Dr Balls said:

Well Manning hasn’t changed the formation, despite the emphasis changing from a counter-attacking team to a possession-based team. Not that I am sure it’s working!

I tend to agree.  I think time / more time should be spent evaluating first.

[Dr Balls]

6 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

As I think I’ve said several times, likely because I’m not sure that’s a skill set he actually has - or has proven - to date

Which goes back to do we really have a top 6 squad? No. It’s definitely fairly limited. That’s why not being in possession actually has suited us better. It also allowed us to tighten up defensively this season. Then break quickly into more space with fewer defenders, increasing the chances of scoring. The point is that if every team plays the same way it’s actually relatively easy to nullify, because the opposition know exactly what’s coming. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Dr Balls

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In which case it is possible that he was a bad fit.

 

A case of short term pain for long term gain I feel, I think long term the move will be good for us as there are positive signs in gameplay style but as with the goals conceded Sunday just errors that need to be cut.

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Playing a bit of Devil’s advocate…why change straightaway?  Why not show your adaptable coaching skillset, spot some quick wins, and not disrupt too much.

If its a tactical overhaul that's needed then all you're doing is kicking the can down the road to when that change needs to be made. Realistically if he did as you suggest then the first real opportunity he'd have to commit the amount of training time required to changing system would be when this season is dead and that could be March, frankly its a waste of 4 months or so and a January window in the hope that we finish in the play offs by not changing too much. This season has essentially been sacrificed for players to get used to Manning's style inside and out for next season as much as its a pain for the remaining games for people going to watch. If we pick up results in the mean time and are somehow in the hunt still then its a bonus. 

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Point more so there though is even if he knows that (and I have no reason to suspect he doesn’t - or even if he thinks the players can play that way) he would have seen the statements made by the board and the expectation that gave. Again - it’s the boards shitshow but Liam took the job, took the money and is smart enough to know that in view of the statements a slow start would put him under immediate pressure. That he’s then started questioning the culture and his comments as detailed in the interview thread shows he’s not appearing to be coping with what was expected.
 

 

I don't think he's questioning it as if its 'bad', he's just referring it needs to be changed to fulfil what he requires. A lot of the culture would fit what he seems to need and want in what Nige recruits physically in players, but it could be something like a culture change in terms of how willing you are to be brave in possession, how patient and recycle etc, so yeah I don't think he's said we had a bad culture here, just a change is needed. 

[Charlie BCFC]

Bit boring this has turned into another thread around our current managerial situation.

For the record I think Duff is a good manager, actually thought he’d do well at Swansea because he did get very good results at Cheltenham and Barnsley. I see him doing well at this level but also the only surprise is he didn’t go earlier 

[Dr Balls]

2 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

A case of short term pain for long term gain I feel, I think long term the move will be good for us as there are positive signs in gameplay style but as with the goals conceded Sunday just errors that need to be cut.

If its a tactical overhaul that's needed then all you're doing is kicking the can down the road to when that change needs to be made. Realistically if he did as you suggest then the first real opportunity he'd have to commit the amount of training time required to changing system would be when this season is dead and that could be March, frankly its a waste of 4 months or so and a January window in the hope that we finish in the play offs by not changing too much. This season has essentially been sacrificed for players to get used to Manning's style inside and out for next season as much as its a pain for the remaining games for people going to watch. If we pick up results in the mean time and are somehow in the hunt still then its a bonus. 

I don't think he's questioning it as if its 'bad', he's just referring it needs to be changed to fulfil what he requires. A lot of the culture would fit what he seems to need and want in what Nige recruits physically in players, but it could be something like a culture change in terms of how willing you are to be brave in possession, how patient and recycle etc, so yeah I don't think he's said we had a bad culture here, just a change is needed. 

Culture or tactics? Change of playing style? A different emphasis?

Culture is the wrong term. That’s what Nige had to sort out when he arrived. Hence the reorganisation of the playing and coaching side of things, while still having to reduce the wage bill and bring through young players from the academy. Manning has none of those things to deal with, he’s got a nest egg for transfer fees and a target of making the play offs. That’s it.

The bigger question is who carries the can if it all goes tits up? Well it won’t be those who appointed Manning, that’s for darn sure!

[Mr Popodopolous]

On the actual topic, Duff probably would be a better fit for us to continue NP's good work, Manning more in line with the possession ethos at Swansea.

[Silvio Dante]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I tend to agree.  I think time / more time should be spent evaluating first.

One of the statements Liam made early was innocuous but has troubled me more over time in respect of the group “They’re very coachable”.

By nature professional footballers have more ability than 99.99% of the population so that can’t mean coachable in terms of ability but is more likely to be coachable in “play this way”. And to me, at the start of a journey at least, that’s anti coaching. The best coaches work out what they have and how they play best with that group of players and adapt/move to their preferred approach over time. Not doing so ends up as a Duff at Swansea scenario. And if your preferred approach is the same as other teams you’d better be better at it then them - and we’re not.

In any profession, going in as a boss and trying to immediately bend a workforce to your methods is seen as a no no. It’s a very basic error that I think he’s making here.

[Dr Balls]

6 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Bit boring this has turned into another thread around our current managerial situation.

For the record I think Duff is a good manager, actually thought he’d do well at Swansea because he did get very good results at Cheltenham and Barnsley. I see him doing well at this level but also the only surprise is he didn’t go earlier 

Not the right person for the Swansea style is the nub of it. They have been pretty inconsistent this season.

As for Mowbray, I’m not sure what’s going on there. A few bad results in the last few games but still in the top half and with a good run could easily be back in the playoff positions. They have some really good young players too.

Interesting to see who ends up at either club. Not sure either will go for an unproven League 1 manager though.