2023/2024 expectations for Pearson

[Engvall’s Splinter]

2 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

I would agree that Sykes, Dickie, and Knight are good signings, and they fit the model of the buy to sell type players. TGH, is on loan, we have not signed him yet. I'm sure it will become permanent in January, but at present, he is only a temporary player.

I wasn't laying any poor recruitment at Nigels feet, but the recruitment team. This is a collective of people. Ironically the same recruitment team will work with Manning, whether they identify diamonds in the rough or turds in the meadow remains to be seen.

I do think though, that there has been a few poor additions. Lets not forget Kyle Wilson who was in and gone within a year. Cornick who looks a league one player at best, Mehmeti who doesn't look up to the task. Now not every signing will be successful, but whilst praise can be given when you find a gem, it would appear, people are willing to ignore the same recruitment strategy that found that gem, also found a few duds, or a few possible duds.

You can also ask, did we need Andy King & Danny Simpson? Could their wages have been utilised better elsewhere? I am not going to judge Atkinson, because he has been a bit hit and miss for me, but is now injured. McCrorie we've not seen. Tanner, I like going forward, but defensively he worries me a little.

I think in Nige's time there was good and bad recruitment, like with any manager, but of his signings since Janaury and there have been 7 of them, I would argue only Knight, Dickie & TGH look as if they are good enough for this level on what we have seen, and if 4/7 in 12 months are questionable or failures, then you are not creating a progression, as more haven't done a job, then have done a job. That is of course my own opinion. 

TGH is a signing. Whichever way you frame it, Nige agreed to his signing.

Alex Ferguson one of the most successful managers of all time signed some duffers. Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, Bebe etc. I don’t actually think Cornick is that mind you - the guys serves a purpose when he often comes on or during his limited starts. In fact, many our suggesting he starts currently instead of Conway or alongside him. Mehmeti I’ll give you. I think you are trying to force your argument with Atkinson. 1.5m for what has turned out a good championship performer yet to hit his peak years is not bad business at all. 
 

Whether you agree with the signing of Simpson owing to his past or not, he was a stop gap. Probably on barely a wage. Andy King looks (from the outside looking in) to of been more of a standard setter and you need people like him in the dressing room to change and push cultures in the right direction. We will never know the impact King has had on the development of the youngsters, in particular Scott and Conway. In the games King has played, has he often let us down? I very much doubt too that he is on a ridiculous wage.

So are the 4/7 poor signings Nigel’s recruitment or the collective recruitment team? As your post is slightly contradictory.

 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

TGH is a signing. Whichever way you frame it, Nige agreed to his signing.

Alex Ferguson one of the most successful managers of all time signed some duffers. Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, Bebe etc. I don’t actually think Cornick is that mind you - the guys serves a purpose when he often comes on or during his limited starts. In fact, many our suggesting he starts currently instead of Conway or alongside him. Mehmeti I’ll give you. I think you are trying to force your argument with Atkinson. 1.5m for what has turned out a good championship performer yet to hit his peak years is not bad business at all. 
 

Whether you agree with the signing of Simpson owing to his past or not, he was a stop gap. Probably on barely a wage. Andy King looks (from the outside looking in) to of been more of a standard setter and you need people like him in the dressing room to change and push cultures in the right direction. We will never know the impact King has had on the development of the youngsters, in particular Scott and Conway. In the games King has played, has he often let us down? I very much doubt too that he is on a ridiculous wage.

So are the 4/7 poor signings Nigel’s recruitment or the collective recruitment team? As your post is slightly contradictory.

 

Yep, Simpson was on a paltry wage, topped up by appearance money, and he didn’t make many appearances!  King too on a low wage, for a 32 year old with his experience.  Low because he’d had a period of not really playing.

With both Simpson and King, the stuff you hear from players or in some cases Dad’s of academy players, their impact shouldn’t necessarily be restricted to an on-the-pitch view.

@robinforlife2 just to add, signings don’t just have to be good or bad, you can have steady / “decent” signings too. For me, you also have to add context like fee, expectations, etc.  Haydon Roberts although not set the world on fire here, was 1) a free transfer and 2) bought for the longer term (a certain Pring in his way).  Kane Wilson was £150k from Lg2, and although left on a free, had add-ons.  Appears to be a near-regular in Derby’s team, so hopefully we make some money back on him.

I was keen in my response to suggest recruitment is a collective effort, and I think it improved in Nige’s time.  I look forward to seeing what manifests in January.  The recruitment department, although unchanged through the change of “manager” has new input, Manning, Hogg, Krause.  That will change the dynamic.  I hope they continue the strategy / profile.

[Silvio Dante]

I think if you go from January, suggesting 4/7 are failures feels a bit harsh.

If we take the ones there is no argument over (Knight, TGH, Dickie) out of the equation then taking the other four:

McCrorie - Way too soon to judge. Horrible unforeseen injury and we have no idea if good or not. At best you have to put him into the “not sure yet” bucket as he’s not played a game!

Roberts - Free transfer and cover player. Very good games (Oxford) but also some poor. Chances limited and I think it’s “jury is out” until we see more

Cornick - Don’t get me wrong, if we were signing him as our main striker I’d be saying it was a failure. But we didn’t, he isn’t, and it isn’t. He’s a low cost squad player who comes on the pitch at 70 minutes and occupies - well - a tired defence. For the job he’s asked to do I think he does it well and I’d be more inclined to put him in the success bucket

Mehmeti - This is the one I do think is a failure. Hes had chances and cameos but always resembles a playground footballer - lots of skill but has no idea when to use it, what decision to make or how to aid the team. I get why some like him because he may get you off your feet - regrettably more often than not it’s to the exit as opposed to in excitement though.

So I think it’s 4 successes (for varying reasons), 2 jury out and one failure. If that hit rate continues under Manning I’d suggest we’re doing well.

[MelksRed]

I fully expect NP to be able to look himself in the mirror having spoken truth to our to55er of an owner. 

NP has been true to himself. Have to respect that. 

[robinforlife2]

On 09/12/2023 at 08:05, Engvall’s Splinter said:

TGH is a signing. Whichever way you frame it, Nige agreed to his signing.

Alex Ferguson one of the most successful managers of all time signed some duffers. Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, Bebe etc. I don’t actually think Cornick is that mind you - the guys serves a purpose when he often comes on or during his limited starts. In fact, many our suggesting he starts currently instead of Conway or alongside him. Mehmeti I’ll give you. I think you are trying to force your argument with Atkinson. 1.5m for what has turned out a good championship performer yet to hit his peak years is not bad business at all. 
 

Whether you agree with the signing of Simpson owing to his past or not, he was a stop gap. Probably on barely a wage. Andy King looks (from the outside looking in) to of been more of a standard setter and you need people like him in the dressing room to change and push cultures in the right direction. We will never know the impact King has had on the development of the youngsters, in particular Scott and Conway. In the games King has played, has he often let us down? I very much doubt too that he is on a ridiculous wage.

So are the 4/7 poor signings Nigel’s recruitment or the collective recruitment team? As your post is slightly contradictory.

 

I said 4 of the last 7, not 4 of his 7. It's a failure of the recruitment team, which he was very much part of and would have had a say. 

Signings pre sales of Semenyo and Scott mean little to me. It was at this stage, our financial position was stronger and he knew he needed to replace players of quality on a new budget. I would argue that we needed recruit better than ever at this stage as we also lost DaSilva and Kalas in this period, so 4 first team players left. Of the 7 signed since January and I'm not going to include a 3rd choice keeper, one has yet to play for us, since picking up an injury, and for all this is unfortunate, we spent 2-3m on getting the player and was in many ways, our big money buy this summer, so whilst whether he is a success long term or not, up until now, he is a poor piece of recruitment. Mehmeti and Cornick, were brought in, in January as players we would have tried to sign in the summer, but the sale of Semenyo allowed us to fast track that! One is struggling big time at this level, and the other is bought on for a cameo role late on most games, and adds very little. When 3/4 starting 11 players leave and other solid squad players leave, replacing them with bit part players is far from ideal. Hayden Roberts has been poor and is not ready for this level. People say he was signed as back up, but the question has to be, did we need him, do we need him, and the simple answer is, on what he has shown so far, no.

Knight, Dickie and TGH are good players and promising players, these have been recruited well. In many ways, Dickie is an upgrade on Kalas, TGH an upgrade on DaSilva and whilst Knight does not player the same position as Scott, he works well in centre midfield.

So 3 in adequately replace 2/3 starting 11 players, but a key player has not been replaced, and 4 players have been signed who are currently not first choices at all.

People say Nigel done wonders with youth, but his hand was forced, through injuries and lack of investment, he had to promote these players and give them a chance. A couple of them aren't ready yet, but are getting minutes. However, the philosophy is to promote from within if we can, and it has to be said Nige preferred to use a past it Andy King, then call on one of the younger players to step up, when the technical director says 10/11 of these players in the U23 are ready for the step up, or should be used. Therefore, this was a clear example Pearson was not looking to follow that protocol and for someone everyone says worked miracles with the youth players and gave them a chance, the sword he fell on, was because he would rather use an old and past it player, then step one up when his job was on the line.

 

[robinforlife2]

23 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think if you go from January, suggesting 4/7 are failures feels a bit harsh.

If we take the ones there is no argument over (Knight, TGH, Dickie) out of the equation then taking the other four:

McCrorie - Way too soon to judge. Horrible unforeseen injury and we have no idea if good or not. At best you have to put him into the “not sure yet” bucket as he’s not played a game!

Roberts - Free transfer and cover player. Very good games (Oxford) but also some poor. Chances limited and I think it’s “jury is out” until we see more

Cornick - Don’t get me wrong, if we were signing him as our main striker I’d be saying it was a failure. But we didn’t, he isn’t, and it isn’t. He’s a low cost squad player who comes on the pitch at 70 minutes and occupies - well - a tired defence. For the job he’s asked to do I think he does it well and I’d be more inclined to put him in the success bucket

Mehmeti - This is the one I do think is a failure. Hes had chances and cameos but always resembles a playground footballer - lots of skill but has no idea when to use it, what decision to make or how to aid the team. I get why some like him because he may get you off your feet - regrettably more often than not it’s to the exit as opposed to in excitement though.

So I think it’s 4 successes (for varying reasons), 2 jury out and one failure. If that hit rate continues under Manning I’d suggest we’re doing well.

I deem a success as someone who is delivering for the club right now, an improvement on what we had.

McCrorie may in time prove a success, but to not have not had him available for a single game and he cost 2-3m, that is not a success, even if the injury is unfortunate. Had we not signed McCrorie, the money used in doing so, could have brought in 1-2 others who may have been more successful.

Roberts is not playing and has been on the balance poor. He is currently not a success, regardless even if he comes good in a year or two. At this very moment in time, he is not good enough.

We don't need impact players who can't score goals, neither do we need a low cost squad player to come on and sure up a game. We had that already in Chris Martin! We had that already in Andy King. He would not have been on low wages at Luton. He'll still be on 5-10K a week, and he is no improvement on what we had, he is the same, or a regression if anything. That is in no way, shape or form a success.

Mehmeti does the pretty stuff, can't do the simple stuff, and looks like he is struggling.

Regardless of what players cost, they have been recruited and none of the above are first team starters, or any more than impact players, albeit one is not available. We had 4 first team playing players to replace. We have brought in 7 players since it was clear these players were going and needed replacing. 2/3 of those players have been replaced. The remaining 4 signings are not improving us at all, if anything they are lesser versions of what we had. 

I'm not saying it's Nigel's fault, but the recruitment team as a collective. But we have overall recruited poorly since our financial situation improved. 

[Davefevs]

When the budget is relaxed we can see what players are brought in.

When your hands are tied / little to no budget, there is only so much you can do.

I think our recruitment has been much improved in the circumstances.

When we had budget in the past, we pissed it up against the wall.

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, robinforlife2 said:

I deem a success as someone who is delivering for the club right now, an improvement on what we had.

McCrorie may in time prove a success, but to not have not had him available for a single game and he cost 2-3m, that is not a success, even if the injury is unfortunate. Had we not signed McCrorie, the money used in doing so, could have brought in 1-2 others who may have been more successful.

 

By this logic we could sign Mbappe, he could then be unavailable for a period due to an unforeseen matter (let’s say a car accident) and you’d be bemoaning the recruitment team.
 

I don’t agree with your view on Cornick and Roberts (you always need squad players/ones who you sign to develop) but to use McCrorie as an example to bemoan our recruitment is batshit. At the very worse case you have to discount him from analysis!

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

I deem a success as someone who is delivering for the club right now, an improvement on what we had.

McCrorie may in time prove a success, but to not have not had him available for a single game and he cost 2-3m, that is not a success, even if the injury is unfortunate. Had we not signed McCrorie, the money used in doing so, could have brought in 1-2 others who may have been more successful.

Roberts is not playing and has been on the balance poor. He is currently not a success, regardless even if he comes good in a year or two. At this very moment in time, he is not good enough.

We don't need impact players who can't score goals, neither do we need a low cost squad player to come on and sure up a game. We had that already in Chris Martin! We had that already in Andy King. He would not have been on low wages at Luton. He'll still be on 5-10K a week, and he is no improvement on what we had, he is the same, or a regression if anything. That is in no way, shape or form a success.

Mehmeti does the pretty stuff, can't do the simple stuff, and looks like he is struggling.

Regardless of what players cost, they have been recruited and none of the above are first team starters, or any more than impact players, albeit one is not available. We had 4 first team playing players to replace. We have brought in 7 players since it was clear these players were going and needed replacing. 2/3 of those players have been replaced. The remaining 4 signings are not improving us at all, if anything they are lesser versions of what we had. 

I'm not saying it's Nigel's fault, but the recruitment team as a collective. But we have overall recruited poorly since our financial situation improved. 

Don't you think it's a bit early to say Roberts is not good enough? 

Wouldn't 'unproven' be more appropriate?

[Kibs]

59 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Don't you think it's a bit early to say Roberts is not good enough? 

Wouldn't 'unproven' be more appropriate?

I mean, you could say the same about Manning couldn’t you?

Agree about Roberts though, not seen anywhere near enough. Thought he looked decent in his early appearances.