Separating the truth from fiction (I’m not encouraged)

[Silvio Dante]

With apologies to @Harry…

Backwards. That’s the word that kept running through my head tonight. Liams had five weeks, and the performance was the worst yet, following on from a poor Huddersfield game.

Today, we got back in that game through a very Nige setup goal. As we did Saturday. In fact, second half Manningball went out of the window - as Nakhi said on Robins TV it was basketball, and that played to our strengths.

On the match thread early doors I commented that we left spaces between our defence and midfield lines. The goal came from that. If I could see it then it was obvious, so why couldn’t LM?

The truth here is this. Over 5 (6 games if you count QPR) we’ve regressed. The managers game plan is figured out earlier each game, and we get found out earlier as a result. 
 

The fiction here is this. Manning, given time, hasn’t got a history of building sides. He took over an oven ready MK Dons side and when he made his own signings they got relegated. Manning has no history of bringing through youth. He’s not brought through academy at Oxford or Dons. There is no record. There is no evidence. There is no huge reason to suspect he is a quality coach.

Thats not to say he might not be. But right now, it’s a fiction. And the truth is 5 points from 6 games and our worst run of the season.

[TheSpaniard]

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

With apologies to @Harry…

Backwards. That’s the word that kept running through my head tonight. Liams had five weeks, and the performance was the worst yet, following on from a poor Huddersfield game.

Today, we got back in that game through a very Nige setup goal. As we did Saturday. In fact, second half Manningball went out of the window - as Nakhi said on Robins TV it was basketball, and that played to our strengths.

On the match thread early doors I commented that we left spaces between our defence and midfield lines. The goal came from that. If I could see it then it was obvious, so why couldn’t LM?

The truth here is this. Over 5 (6 games if you count QPR) we’ve regressed. The managers game plan is figured out earlier each game, and we get found out earlier as a result. 
 

The fiction here is this. Manning, given time, hasn’t got a history of building sides. He took over an oven ready MK Dons side and when he made his own signings they got relegated. Manning has no history of bringing through youth. He’s not brought through academy at Oxford or Dons. There is no record. There is no evidence. There is no huge reason to suspect he is a quality coach.

Thats not to say he might not be. But right now, it’s a fiction. And the truth is 5 points from 6 games and our worst run of the season.

6 games get a grip - pathetic.

[Harry]

The point of my post the other day was not necessarily to extol Manning but it was to say that the fiction was the stupid expectations placed upon him by a stupid hierarchy at this club. 
As I said in that thread, we were a mid table team under Nige and we will remain a mid table team under Liam. 
 

I agree that tonight was very poor in patches but I also again saw some decent football in patches too. Not enough, of course, but some. 
It’s nowhere near good enough at present I agree. But the fiction / reality thread was more to do with playing down the expectations set by the idiotic board than it was to praise Liam’s style so far. 

[GrahamC]

Hard to escape the conclusion that despite having only about 15 players to choose from he hasn’t worked out yet his best team or formation.

If we really are going to copy the opposition every game & match up I can’t see that going well.

We need to keep picking up points because we will be in free fall otherwise & if we continue to struggle to score goals we are going to drop like a stone.

Sykes aside I’m not confident of anyone scoring consistently.

 

[Randy Marsh II]

Get ready to be sucked into the fight for survival. We will survive it, but we should never have been looking over our shoulders this season. 

Crayon boy and Tin brain out

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, Harry said:

The point of my post the other day was not necessarily to extol Manning but it was to say that the fiction was the stupid expectations placed upon him by a stupid hierarchy at this club. 
As I said in that thread, we were a mid table team under Nige and we will remain a mid table team under Liam. 
 

I agree that tonight was very poor in patches but I also again saw some decent football in patches too. Not enough, of course, but some. 
It’s nowhere near good enough at present I agree. But the fiction / reality thread was more to do with playing down the expectations set by the idiotic board than it was to praise Liam’s style so far. 

Tbf mate I was more using the phrase as an “in” to the general point. I know you’re more balanced than most and understand the game, and won’t blindly say “this is great” or “this is crap”.  My point was more that there is a very polarised opinion here currently - Nige is gone, nothing changes that but there is a swell of Nige good - LM bad or vice versa.

What I’m saying is purely on evidence from here and elsewhere (with no comparison to Nige) that Liam is more poor than good thus far across the board. It’s possible we have made a bad call, and for the good of the club, I’d rather address that sooner than later as opposed to putting my faith in hope.

(This isn’t me calling for his head - this is just me saying this is the reality of where we are)

[cidered abroad]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

The point of my post the other day was not necessarily to extol Manning but it was to say that the fiction was the stupid expectations placed upon him by a stupid hierarchy at this club. 
As I said in that thread, we were a mid table team under Nige and we will remain a mid table team under Liam. 
 

I agree that tonight was very poor in patches but I also again saw some decent football in patches too. Not enough, of course, but some. 
It’s nowhere near good enough at present I agree. But the fiction / reality thread was more to do with playing down the expectations set by the idiotic board than it was to praise Liam’s style so far. 

Sorry Harry, while I recognise that your knowledge of the game is excellent.

I don't have that experience on the pitch but as one who has seen 8 promotions and 7 relegations, I can smell the latter from a long way off. The air is not quite that bad yet but continuing this to the end of December will bring a real stink to the New Year.

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

The point of my post the other day was not necessarily to extol Manning but it was to say that the fiction was the stupid expectations placed upon him by a stupid hierarchy at this club. 
As I said in that thread, we were a mid table team under Nige and we will remain a mid table team under Liam. 
 

I agree that tonight was very poor in patches but I also again saw some decent football in patches too. Not enough, of course, but some. 
It’s nowhere near good enough at present I agree. But the fiction / reality thread was more to do with playing down the expectations set by the idiotic board than it was to praise Liam’s style so far. 

You also thought we played well against Huddersfield who are one of the worst teams in the league and who lost 3-1 to Preston tonight. 

Tonight we come up against one of the worst defences in the league and didn't do much. 

Next up Sunderland, can't wait! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

The flipside is though that Blackburn are very open at both ends which can create significant issues for the opposition albeit I actually didn't think much of them tonight.. we shouldn't be losing that tbh.

[MarcusX]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The flipside is though that Blackburn are very open at both ends which can create significant issues for the opposition albeit I actually didn't think much of them tonight.. we shouldn't be losing that tbh.

Had their commentary on and they felt they were let off tonight. Uncomfortable viewing they said.

I’m with OP on this though, it’s regression.

Also, I like Max but he’s not good enough with his distribution to play possession football. There’s no point knocking 10-15 passes around then Max hoofing it under pressure.

The truth is, we’ve completely changed our style and some players aren’t good enough to adapt. We’ve built a squad to suit Pearson’s style and now we need to change players again.

[Shauntaylor85]

Blackburn fans before game were saying how dreadful they are at home. Hudds fans too were not confident, why oh why are we so poor! 

[ciderwithtommy]

I have never seen a team so incredibly incredibly poor at crossing the ball. In fact it’s so bad it usually ends in a chance for the opposition. 

[IAmNick]

I think some of my confusion tonight was that it seemed a bit of a step back from the way I thought we were going to be playing, and our success came as you mentioned from a more Pearson style approach to the game.

The passing along and out from the back was more direct, and we were hassling and trying to win the ball higher up the pitch - and getting some success when we did so as well.

It was a bit of a confused performance for me, and that was reflected in how the game changed significantly with both sets of our subs.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, ciderwithtommy said:

I have never seen a team so incredibly incredibly poor at crossing the ball. In fact it’s so bad it usually ends in a chance for the opposition. 

Tbh over crossing is a bit of a questionable strategy in itself, we do perhaps do this a bit and did at times under NP too especially high crossing vs big centre backs.

[Harry]

12 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You also thought we played well against Huddersfield who are one of the worst teams in the league and who lost 3-1 to Preston tonight. 

Tonight we come up against one of the worst defences in the league and didn't do much. 

Next up Sunderland, can't wait! 

Well yes I did. Because I thought parts of the Huddersfield performance were actually quite good. 
 

Re Blackburn. They are also the top scorers outside of the runaway top 3. 
 

As I’ve said over previous threads, I’m not ‘Manning is god’ like you seem to be implying. I’m just saying the expectation placed upon him by the idiotic board is ridiculous and we are a mid table squad - with or without Nige and with or without Liam. 

[Ivorguy]

5 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Blackburn fans before game were saying how dreadful they are at home. Hudds fans too were not confident, why oh why are we so poor! 

Do you really need to ask?

[ciderwithtommy]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Tbh over crossing is a bit of a questionable strategy in itself, we do perhaps do this a bit and did at times under NP too especially high crossing vs big centre backs.

As an example, tonight, Bell and Tanner 1st half had decent opportunities, particularly Tanners which was a 3/10 difficulty to put to the back post where we had 3 waiting and he scuffs is to the near post where they break on us. 2nd half so similar, almost baffling that they pick such a poor option each and every time.

[Harry]

2 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I think some of my confusion tonight was that it seemed a bit of a step back from the way I thought we were going to be playing, and our success came as you mentioned from a more Pearson style approach to the game.

The passing along and out from the back was more direct, and we were hassling and trying to win the ball higher up the pitch - and getting some success when we did so as well.

It was a bit of a confused performance for me, and that was reflected in how the game changed significantly with both sets of our subs.

100%. 
I thought tonight’s performance was one that you could easily say was a ‘Nige’ performance. 

Thats not a criticism of either Nige nor Liam. It’s more a case of the players reverting to what they were more familiar with. We definitely didn’t look to play too much from the back tonight and were much more direct. 
We did have a couple of good spells where we held good possession inside the opposition half and final 3rd, but there wasn’t a great deal of the much maligned “knocking about between the Cb’s” tonight. 

So yes, if you’d been on the moon the last 6 weeks and this was your first game back, you’d be forgiven for thinking Nige was still in charge. 
The only giveaway to that was that Mehmeti played

[Harry]

3 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

As an example, tonight, Bell and Tanner 1st half had decent opportunities, particularly Tanners which was a 3/10 difficulty to put to the back post where we had 3 waiting and he scuffs is to the near post where they break on us. 2nd half so similar, almost baffling that they pick such a poor option each and every time.

The reason for this is that both Bell and Tanner are poor footballers. Personally I’ve never got the hype with these 2. 
 

[Finley_Smith10]

8 minutes ago, Harry said:

The reason for this is that both Bell and Tanner are poor footballers. Personally I’ve never got the hype with these 2. 
 

Litter

[Silvio Dante]

9 minutes ago, Harry said:

The reason for this is that both Bell and Tanner are poor footballers. Personally I’ve never got the hype with these 2. 
 

Tanner is a decent stopper fullback and could play well at this level (mid table) in the right system.

Bell has a chronic lack of football intelligence and I’d go as far as saying if he wasn’t Mickeys son he’d have been released by now. I expect him to be, as I’ve said before, at L1-2 in 2-3 years time and carve a half decent career there

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, TheSpaniard said:

6 games get a grip - pathetic.

Why is someone giving their evaluation / opinion after 6 games, pathetic?

Why not post why you disagree with it….other than “it’s too early”.

Silvio isn’t saying anything other than what he’s seen so far.  What is wrong with that?

 

[The Original OTIB]

25 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Tanner is a decent stopper fullback and could play well at this level (mid table) in the right system.

Bell has a chronic lack of football intelligence and I’d go as far as saying if he wasn’t Mickeys son he’d have been released by now. I expect him to be, as I’ve said before, at L1-2 in 2-3 years time and carve a half decent career there

Could be coaching as well. Look at Wes Burns and where he is now. Who 'saw that coming.

Edited December 12, 2023 by The Original OTIB

[GrahamC]

42 minutes ago, Harry said:

100%. 
I thought tonight’s performance was one that you could easily say was a ‘Nige’ performance. 

Thats not a criticism of either Nige nor Liam. It’s more a case of the players reverting to what they were more familiar with. We definitely didn’t look to play too much from the back tonight and were much more direct. 
We did have a couple of good spells where we held good possession inside the opposition half and final 3rd, but there wasn’t a great deal of the much maligned “knocking about between the Cb’s” tonight. 

So yes, if you’d been on the moon the last 6 weeks and this was your first game back, you’d be forgiven for thinking Nige was still in charge. 
The only giveaway to that was that Mehmeti played

The other big difference was we lost, which we never did once against Blackburn (home or away) under Pearson.

I agree about there being far less passing between the CBs but that just made me wonder (not for the first time) as what exactly we were trying to do.

Personally I didn’t mind that & although the result takes precedence I actually thought we were ok up until they scored & once we got it back to 2-1, but that’s not enough if we are going to struggle to score & can’t keep clean sheets (none in the last 5).

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

I think some of my confusion tonight was that it seemed a bit of a step back from the way I thought we were going to be playing, and our success came as you mentioned from a more Pearson style approach to the game.

The passing along and out from the back was more direct, and we were hassling and trying to win the ball higher up the pitch - and getting some success when we did so as well.

It was a bit of a confused performance for me, and that was reflected in how the game changed significantly with both sets of our subs.

Some good points about tonight Nick - In the second half particularly we won and kept the ball in their half and had controlled possession in their half which I can go with

Id like to see us a bit more aggressive without the ball , pragmatic if need be , and keep the ability to then switch into possession/ domination when we win the ball

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Why is someone giving their evaluation / opinion after 6 games, pathetic?

Why not post why you disagree with it….other than “it’s too early”.

Silvio isn’t saying anything other than what he’s seen so far.  What is wrong with that?

 

You’ve probably missed it Dave but the Spaniard has sailed

Shot and sunk by the ‘dog catcher’ @Ian M 

 

Les struck again

[Fuber]

2 hours ago, TheSpaniard said:

6 games get a grip - pathetic.

De Boer had less. And ironically had a similar ethos regarding possession. #justsaying

[winsaw]

I am honestly starting to get really worried tonight was the worst we have played yet since the change of management and I think if we take a bad beating on Saturday that could really mess with players confidence over the critical Xmas new year period then could find us right in the dog fight to stay up, 

[Davefevs]

32 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

You’ve probably missed it Dave but the Spaniard has sailed

Shot and sunk by the ‘dog catcher’ @Ian M 

 

Les struck again

Antagonises a whole forum.  ***** me right off.

[Sheltons Army]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Antagonises a whole forum.  ***** me right off.

Amazing , as it is embarrassingly pathetic , isn’t it