A revisitation one month in

[Silvio Dante]

Last month, the evening post published an article following LMs appointment with interviews from both Oxford and MK Dons fans. Those fans interviewed appear to be knowledgeable and articulate and gave interesting answers. It’s worth re-reading one month on as we can see what chimes and what doesn’t to date.  There are undoubtedly similarities here but there are equally some things where it sounds like a different coach:
 

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/liam-mannings-lessons-mk-dons-8897745.amp

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just onto the Oxford part of it, Elek reckoned that we didn't need to worry about a switch from a back 4...erm- is all I can say to that so far.

Interestingly he also said Oxford were quite transitional and cohesive.

We definitely seem to have lost cohesiveness here, is Manning aiming more at his MK Dons rather than Oxford side here.

[Kid in the Riot]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just onto the Oxford part of it, Elek reckoned that we didn't need to worry about a switch from a back 4...erm- is all I can say to that so far.

Interestingly he also said Oxford were quite transitional and cohesive.

We definitely seem to have lost cohesiveness here, is Manning aiming more at his MK Dons rather than Oxford side here.

Think Elek would have also pointed out it took Manning several months and a window before the touch paper was lit.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

Think Elek would have also pointed out it took Manning several months and a window before the touch paper was lit.

Thanks, still reading it.

I mean he said good fit, perhaps one of Manning's issues is too much change too quickly.

[Silvio Dante]

Couple more interesting links - clearly some recency bias because of how he left Oxford but some useful background.

https://yellowsforum.co.uk/threads/liam-manning.9227/page-171

https://yellowsforum.co.uk/threads/a-bristol-city-fan-us-thoughts-on-liam-manning.10103/

This certainly resonates!

 

 

[Nomad]

42 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Couple more interesting links - clearly some recency bias because of how he left Oxford but some useful background.

https://yellowsforum.co.uk/threads/liam-manning.9227/page-171

https://yellowsforum.co.uk/threads/a-bristol-city-fan-us-thoughts-on-liam-manning.10103/

This certainly resonates!

 

 

Sounds like a Lee Johnson side, deeper, deeper, deeper, oh shit, we've conceded.

[Ivorguy]

I think in simple terms Manning is a poor man manager, and yet with Nige we had got used to having someone who was a great man manager.

[Swede]

I am seeing Lee Johnson.

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

I think in simple terms Manning is a poor man manager, and yet with Nige we had got used to having someone who was a great man manager.

What evidence is there of poor man-management so far? 
Yes, we can critique the results and the style and some decisions but what single piece of evidence is there to say the man-management is poor? 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

I am seeing Lee Johnson.

I keep seeing this come up, but as I said back on his first day, it’s not LJ, it’s SOD. 
It’s the talk of processes and decision making and players thinking for themselves, it’s a stubbornness to play his way but not having the players to fulfil that, it’s the awkwardness (or maybe more lacking personality) with the media which won’t endear him to supporters. 
He is much closer to SOD than he is to LJ. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Harry

[Mendip City]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

I am seeing Lee Johnson.

With the charisma of SOD 

[Mr Popodopolous]

O'Driscoll actually had a competent track record prior to joining us including at Championship level.

Sure it went wrong for him towards the end but Doncaster at this level, getting there and staying there for years was quite the overachievement.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

What evidence is there of poor man-management so far? 
Yes, we can critique the results and the style and some decisions but what single piece of evidence is there to say the man-management is poor? 

 

3 hours ago, Harry said:

I keep seeing this come up, but as I said back on his first day, it’s not LJ, it’s SOD. 
It’s the talk of processes and decision making and players thinking for themselves, it’s a stubbornness to play his way but not having the players to fulfil that, it’s the awkwardness (or maybe more lacking personality) with the media which won’t endear him to supporters. 
He is much closer to SOD than he is to LJ. 

Well firstly he turned a promotion chasing team into a relegated team. Had one of those LJ losing runs didn't he? That suggests his man management was poor. 

I know you are desperate for their to not be any negatives but if you open your eyes you will see them. 

He's played the hokey cokey with one of our best players TGH (great man management) and then when he is in a hole, he calls upon TGH to get him out of that hole. 

Constantly taking of one of our best players in Sykes. 

Players have become frustrated about lack of playing time so obviously he's not managed that very well. 

Atkinson played in a 23s game on his road to recovery, few days later Manning plays him in an 11 v 11 and he's injured again. Another example of great man management! It's back to LJs days of club need over player welfare. 

He's failed to inspire and motivate the players and get them running through brick walls like they previously were. 

He's very much a mix of both SOD and LJ. He sets us up one way and when that fails he is clueless. Very much like LJ. The Blackburn game was very much out of the LJ play book. He's certainly found LJs tombola. Baffling team selections. Tactical plans going out of the window and just throwing hail Mary's out of desperation. 

He's admitted that he's overloaded the players with information just like LJ did. 

At least with SOD he put in the foundations for where we are today. 

LJ destroyed this club and if it wasn't for Gould and Pearson we'd be a league one club again. 

There is a huge concern (backed by early evidence) that we are back to those days. 

[1960maaan]

For balance as I think it's too early to really get a handle on what is happening or even what he thinks of the squad.

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Well firstly he turned a promotion chasing team into a relegated team. Had one of those LJ losing runs didn't he? That suggests his man management was poor.

Didn't he lose his best players ? Made near £5M profit spending £300k could have something to do with the fall off, though it was some drop .

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

He's played the hokey cokey with one of our best players TGH (great man management) and then when he is in a hole, he calls upon TGH to get him out of that hole. 

Constantly taking of one of our best players in Sykes. 

Not sure about this.
I'm a big fan of TGH and taking Sykes off , tired or not losing our biggest threat when we had just got back in the game is either madness, or trying to be too clever. I hope he's learnt from it, you might be able to do this in L1 , but Championship ?

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Players have become frustrated about lack of playing time so obviously he's not managed that very well. 

I haven't seen this, plus is it any different from under Pearson ? Players drop out and have to fight for games, more so under NP.

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Atkinson played in a 23s game on his road to recovery, few days later Manning plays him in an 11 v 11 and he's injured again. Another example of great man management! It's back to LJs days of club need over player welfare. 

You have to let players play , to get fit and to test injuries. Exactly the same thing happened under Nige. 
If you don't play those games what is the alternative ? Putting them straight in the first team ?
Unfortunate , but better than breaking down in a League game.

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

He's failed to inspire and motivate the players and get them running through brick walls like they previously were.

TBH I've not noticed any lack of commitment .

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

He's admitted that he's overloaded the players with information just like LJ did.

I've not read that , if true it's a worry. I complained that Johnson tried to be too clever and made the game complicated. I hoped the difference was LJ never struck to a plan , not a single one anyway. Manning has a way he wants to play im mind, that's a head start over LJ.

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

There is a huge concern (backed by early evidence) that we are back to those days. 

Just like the "new manager bounce" comes to an end when pure enthusiasm or excitement fades, I hope LM starts to get his ideas bedded in and we see improvements in results.
I'm going to give him a bit more time , the only real complaint I have so far is questionable subs. I think for the most part we have played ok, individual errors have cost us goals but it was ever this way. 
What I want to see is that he has recognised where he has gone wrong, which players actually make the biggest impact and how best to use the squad. 

He has had chance to see most of the players in games. He's had a chance to look at a couple of formations and how they have taken on his ideas. Now we can really start to see what he's about.
Saturday is a tough game, so what ? Every game is tough in this division.
We have competed in most games, odd goal defeats at Leeds & Leicester and only been poor in a couple of games . Even then we have had spells we should have taken advantage of, this run hasn't been that different but is more in focus because of the unneeded change of Manager .  
This next run of games should show if we can improve, or should start to worry. 

[TDarwall]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

 

He's played the hokey cokey with one of our best players TGH (great man management) and then when he is in a hole, he calls upon TGH to get him out of that hole. 

I'm a big fan of TGH (although we do have a strange penchant for not very athletic central midfielders!), but this is daft.

Putting on a substitute isn't calling on someone to get the manager out of a hole, its normal practice in any game.

 

Not sure of your age but did Paisley just rely on David Fairclough to get him out of a hole?

Edited December 14, 2023 by TDarwall

[Super]

5 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

 

Well firstly he turned a promotion chasing team into a relegated team. Had one of those LJ losing runs didn't he? That suggests his man management was poor. 

I know you are desperate for their to not be any negatives but if you open your eyes you will see them. 

He's played the hokey cokey with one of our best players TGH (great man management) and then when he is in a hole, he calls upon TGH to get him out of that hole. 

Constantly taking of one of our best players in Sykes. 

Players have become frustrated about lack of playing time so obviously he's not managed that very well. 

Atkinson played in a 23s game on his road to recovery, few days later Manning plays him in an 11 v 11 and he's injured again. Another example of great man management! It's back to LJs days of club need over player welfare. 

He's failed to inspire and motivate the players and get them running through brick walls like they previously were. 

He's very much a mix of both SOD and LJ. He sets us up one way and when that fails he is clueless. Very much like LJ. The Blackburn game was very much out of the LJ play book. He's certainly found LJs tombola. Baffling team selections. Tactical plans going out of the window and just throwing hail Mary's out of desperation. 

He's admitted that he's overloaded the players with information just like LJ did. 

At least with SOD he put in the foundations for where we are today. 

LJ destroyed this club and if it wasn't for Gould and Pearson we'd be a league one club again. 

There is a huge concern (backed by early evidence) that we are back to those days. 

You've taken all of that from 6 games?

[Harry]

5 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

 

Well firstly he turned a promotion chasing team into a relegated team. Had one of those LJ losing runs didn't he? That suggests his man management was poor. 

I know you are desperate for their to not be any negatives but if you open your eyes you will see them. 

He's played the hokey cokey with one of our best players TGH (great man management) and then when he is in a hole, he calls upon TGH to get him out of that hole. 

Constantly taking of one of our best players in Sykes. 

Players have become frustrated about lack of playing time so obviously he's not managed that very well. 

Atkinson played in a 23s game on his road to recovery, few days later Manning plays him in an 11 v 11 and he's injured again. Another example of great man management! It's back to LJs days of club need over player welfare. 

He's failed to inspire and motivate the players and get them running through brick walls like they previously were. 

He's very much a mix of both SOD and LJ. He sets us up one way and when that fails he is clueless. Very much like LJ. The Blackburn game was very much out of the LJ play book. He's certainly found LJs tombola. Baffling team selections. Tactical plans going out of the window and just throwing hail Mary's out of desperation. 

He's admitted that he's overloaded the players with information just like LJ did. 

At least with SOD he put in the foundations for where we are today. 

LJ destroyed this club and if it wasn't for Gould and Pearson we'd be a league one club again. 

There is a huge concern (backed by early evidence) that we are back to those days. 

I asked for one piece of verifiable evidence that man management is poor and you’ve replied with another load of waffley bollox with no shred of evidence whatsoever. 
Pure conjecture and opinion. 
 

It’s ok; we know where you stand. So there’s no need to reach and make stuff up. 

[supercidered]

15 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just onto the Oxford part of it, Elek reckoned that we didn't need to worry about a switch from a back 4...erm- is all I can say to that so far.

Interestingly he also said Oxford were quite transitional and cohesive.

We definitely seem to have lost cohesiveness here, is Manning aiming more at his MK Dons rather than Oxford side here.

I hope not Mr P.

Didn't MK Dons get relegated after he guided them in to the relegation zone in December 2022?

Hopefully, history not repeating itself.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

I asked for one piece of verifiable evidence that man management is poor and you’ve replied with another load of waffley bollox with no shred of evidence whatsoever. 
Pure conjecture and opinion. 
 

It’s ok; we know where you stand. So there’s no need to reach and make stuff up. 

You're a huge fan of Manning, I thought waffley bollox was your thing considering all the waffley bollox he comes out with. 

Nah I've presented you with facts. You don't like those facts as it shows he's not as good as you think he is so you just pretend those facts are not real. 

Best to just leave this here. 

[GrahamC]

3 minutes ago, supercidered said:

I hope not Mr P.

Didn't MK Dons get relegated after he guided them in to the relegation zone in December 2022?

Hopefully, history not repeating itself.

Whilst I’m on the fence about appointing Manning that is a very selective view of his time there.

Made the playoffs, lost his best 3 players next summer then struggled is far more accurate.

[supercidered]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Whilst I’m on the fence about appointing Manning that is a very selective view of his time there.

Made the playoffs, lost his best 3 players next summer then struggled is far more accurate.

Not massively selective. We have lost players also, including an irreplaceable one.

The difference being LM knew this before he came in.

Hopefully we won't end up in the relegation zone and hopefully not get relegated. Soooooooo, hopefully, history not repeating itself.

 

[Harry]

9 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You're a huge fan of Manning, I thought waffley bollox was your thing considering all the waffley bollox he comes out with. 

Nah I've presented you with facts. You don't like those facts as it shows he's not as good as you think he is so you just pretend those facts are not real. 

Best to just leave this here. 

A) I’m not a “huge fan of Manning”. I’m just willing to allow him time. 
 

B) You presented zero facts about poor man management. You only presented your own opinion. 

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Not massively selective. We have lost players also, including an irreplaceable one.

The difference being LM knew this before he came in.

Hopefully we won't end up in the relegation zone and hopefully not get relegated. Soooooooo, hopefully, history not repeating itself.

 

Every club loses players, my point is it is incomplete to fail to acknowledge the playoffs bit but mention that he was sacked when they were struggling.

I have no idea of the background at MK as to how much money he was given to replace the likes of Twine but whatever I think of his appointment it is surely fair not to focus entirely on a very small part?

His overall record (MK, Oxford) is decent but is also at a lower level.

That’s just being balanced.

[W-S-M Seagull]

24 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Whilst I’m on the fence about appointing Manning that is a very selective view of his time there.

Made the playoffs, lost his best 3 players next summer then struggled is far more accurate.

So what if he lost his 3 best players? Pearson constantly lost his best players yet we didn't end up getting relegated. 

I think LM said in the press conference that a big regret of his was not being involved in the recruitment of replacement players. MK 'fans' called bs on that as players were signed that he had previous links to. 

People like to make excuses for his period at MK but the fact is he took a promotion chasing team to one that got relegated. He got sacked following a 1 win in 11 record.

At Lommel, MK and Oxford he had significant funds available to him.

He failed to improve Lommel much, failed to take MK up and then failed to turn around a bad patch which is relevant to our current situation.

Did well at Oxford but left them after they gave him one of the top budgets in the league. 

I don't know, there is something that just doesn't feel right to me. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[supercidered]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Every club loses players, my point is it is incomplete to fail to acknowledge the playoffs bit but mention that he was sacked when they were struggling.

I have no idea of the background at MK as to how much money he was given to replace the likes of Twine but whatever I think of his appointment it is surely fair not to focus entirely on a very small part?

His overall record (MK, Oxford) is decent but is also at a lower level.

That’s just being balanced.

He got to L1 Play Offs and lost.

He got the same team minus his best player in to L1 relegation zone by the following December.

I keep hearing and reading 'too early to judge' 'it's only been 6 games' which of course is true. However, every part of his 'career' has been small or short term because in senior football as a whole, his record is being sacked or jumping ship at the next opportunity.

These are just the facts and if they upset people or if you feel they are unfair and unbalanced then so be it.

[Dr Balls]

10 hours ago, Harry said:

I keep seeing this come up, but as I said back on his first day, it’s not LJ, it’s SOD. 
It’s the talk of processes and decision making and players thinking for themselves, it’s a stubbornness to play his way but not having the players to fulfil that, it’s the awkwardness (or maybe more lacking personality) with the media which won’t endear him to supporters. 
He is much closer to SOD than he is to LJ. 

And the SOD period was one of the most depressing times to be a City fan. The only bright spot was buying JET.

[Merrick's Marvels]

33 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Not massively selective. We have lost players also, including an irreplaceable one.

The difference being LM knew this before he came in.

Hopefully we won't end up in the relegation zone and hopefully not get relegated. Soooooooo, hopefully, history not repeating itself.

 

The difference is that, here, he will be given money to throw at improving us.

Either in January or next summer, depending on how panicked they are by our form - currently running at 50% loss rate over the last dozen games or so.  

Edited December 14, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[Harry]

7 minutes ago, supercidered said:

He got to L1 Play Offs and lost.

He got the same team minus his best player in to L1 relegation zone by the following December.

I keep hearing and reading 'too early to judge' 'it's only been 6 games' which of course is true. However, every part of his 'career' has been small or short term because in senior football as a whole, his record is being sacked or jumping ship at the next opportunity.

These are just the facts and if they upset people or if you feel they are unfair and unbalanced then so be it.

I think it’s unfair to say that he just “lost his best player”. 
He lost his goalkeeper Fisher to Swansea, he lost his midfield playmaker O’Reilly to Celtic. He lost his creative talent Twine to Burnley. He lost his ball playing centre back rock Darling to Swansea. He lost his energetic CM, Kasumu to Huddersfield (who many say was Hudds best player aging is last week). 
Total of around £8million. 
He spent £150k on an Irish youngster and then the rest were nominal fees or compensation fees. 
 

Was it a failure? Yes it was. And he was deservedly sacked. But the circumstances were absolutely NOT that he only lost 1 player! 

[Phileas Fogg]

10 hours ago, Harry said:

I keep seeing this come up, but as I said back on his first day, it’s not LJ, it’s SOD. 
It’s the talk of processes and decision making and players thinking for themselves, it’s a stubbornness to play his way but not having the players to fulfil that, it’s the awkwardness (or maybe more lacking personality) with the media which won’t endear him to supporters. 
He is much closer to SOD than he is to LJ. 

It’s simply because he’s a younger manager I think. Pretty lazy comparison. 

I think there are lots of valid points of debate about this appointment, but I feel they lose validity if that comparison is made. 

[Harry]

14 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

And the SOD period was one of the most depressing times to be a City fan. The only bright spot was buying JET.

I think also buying the core of our promotion squad was also pretty good. 
Fielding, Flint, Williams, Wagstaff, Pack & Jet. 
Oh. And putting the club through Cat 2 academy status. That was quite handy. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Harry